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td25c
03-23-2009, 09:50 PM
Here are pictures of when I repowerd My fiat-allis hd 16b dozer.It broke the crank in the fiat motor and I installed a big cam 855 cummins.

td25c
03-23-2009, 09:57 PM
Here are pictures of when I repowerd My fiat-allis hd 16b dozer.It broke the crank in the fiat motor and I installed a big cam 855 cummins.

here are the pictures.

td25c
03-23-2009, 10:01 PM
More pics.

td25c
03-23-2009, 10:07 PM
More pics.

td25c
03-23-2009, 10:12 PM
Here are some additional pictures.

td25c
03-23-2009, 10:16 PM
Finished product.

willie59
03-23-2009, 10:22 PM
Wait a minute! Is that rig you have on the oil pan some sort of home made scavenger pump set up?

td25c
03-23-2009, 10:32 PM
Wait a minute! Is that rig you have on the oil pan some sort of home made scavenger pump set up?

It is the scavenger pump set up.On the longer 6 cylinder motors,you need the scavenging system in hilly country.

willie59
03-23-2009, 10:45 PM
It is the scavenger pump set up.On the longer 6 cylinder motors,you need the scavenging system in hilly country.

Well cover me in gravy and call me country! That's a neat piece of engineering! I like the converter housing adapter plate as well. That's a nice conversion, looks like it was made for it. :notworthy

qball
03-23-2009, 10:55 PM
that's slick as snot on a doorknob;)

td25c
03-23-2009, 11:04 PM
Well cover me in gravy and call me country! That's a neat piece of engineering! I like the converter housing adapter plate as well. That's a nice conversion, looks like it was made for it. :notworthy

It works good.The last pic was took two day's ago.Spring is here ,and so is dirt moving time.I like the 16B dozer.

RacinRex
03-24-2009, 11:44 AM
Is the adapter plate you built for the flywheel housing just to adapt the bolt pattern on the back of the block or was it to create extra space also?


I've wondered if when bolted to the back of the cummins 4bt the fiat flywheel will be lined up propperly with the torque converter and also if it will fit propperly in the flywheel housing for the fiat starter to work.


I'm taking pictures today during lunch of the beginning of my project and will be posting them as soon as my account is updated.

OCR
03-24-2009, 12:14 PM
That is a nice re-power job!!!... :thumbsup

What's it rated for on horse power?

BTW... Post #2... Picture #3.

Is that a Stetson???... :cool2


OCR... ;)

td25c
03-24-2009, 08:51 PM
Is the adapter plate you built for the flywheel housing just to adapt the bolt pattern on the back of the block or was it to create extra space also?


I've wondered if when bolted to the back of the cummins 4bt the fiat flywheel will be lined up propperly with the torque converter and also if it will fit propperly in the flywheel housing for the fiat starter to work.


I'm taking pictures today during lunch of the beginning of my project and will be posting them as soon as my account is updated.

The adapter plate did both.The setup uses two seals,rear main on cummins and torque converter seal in the fiat flywheel housing.The 2 inch thick plate gave a littel space between the two seals.I used the fiat flyweel on the cummins motor.Use a dial indicater to index the flywheel housing.

td25c
03-24-2009, 08:59 PM
That is a nice re-power job!!!... :thumbsup

What's it rated for on horse power?

BTW... Post #2... Picture #3.

Is that a Stetson???... :cool2


OCR... ;)

Thanks OCR.The cummins is 300 horse.I cut it back a little being the fiat only needs around 200.No Its not a stetson,Its a Tilley bush hat.Its cool in summer and warm in winter,and sheds rain.WWW. TILLEY.com

dawoodwa
03-24-2009, 09:19 PM
Nice looking ole Fat Alice. I still love the sound of a 16B with no muffler.

td25c
03-24-2009, 09:27 PM
Nice looking ole Fat Alice. I still love the sound of a 16B with no muffler.

I thought about putting a"jake brake" on it just for fun.I alwas wear ear protection.

td25c
09-03-2009, 09:29 PM
Well the Cummins engine in the Fiat Allis 16-B developed a slight miss in a cylinder last week.It would only miss when the engine was at idle.Here are some pics changing the spark plugs on the job.I also adjusted the valves & installed new fan belts while I had it apart.The new injectors fixed the problem and the fat alice is back in action making noise & moving dirt.

td25c
09-03-2009, 09:43 PM
Here are a few more pics .I like to "seat" the injectors by giving them a quick snap with a dead blow hammer and I clean & swab out the injector bores whith a wire brush.

willie59
09-03-2009, 09:57 PM
Nice job 25c. I like it. ;)

OCR
09-04-2009, 01:12 AM
Same here, 25c... good looking job... :thumbsup


OCR

Neil D
09-04-2009, 04:17 PM
Thanks for posting-keep them coming:cool2:cool2

Neil

td25c
10-19-2013, 09:07 PM
More pics.

Had a member message me about some details on the repower job.I went back to the thread and realized ....yes...I have some pictures of it and a few details but still vague for the most part. The key element was the adapter plate & mounting the fiat flywheel to the cummins crank.I started out with a carboard template for the adapter plate. If you notice the cummins crank uses 6 bolts, we needed 8 . This was accomplished by bottoming out 6 bolts in the crank then cutting them of flush at the surface.Then had to machine the fiat flywheel out a little so it would slip on the cummins crank. Now the 8 new holes could be marked,drilled, and threads tapped. I decided to use a high grade all thread for studs & locktite when we installed them.Then spent some time with the torque convertor housing C-clamped to the new adapter plate using a dial indicator to index it all so I could then drill the new dowel pin holes. Wasent realy that complicated but needed a little thought.:D

By doing it this way everything behind the adapter plate remained stock equipment .I had to modify the front engine mount a bit but was no big deal. Also had to modify & replumb the engine and transmission oil coolers .Added a belt driven engine oil scavenging system . It wasent a 2 or 3 day job....... We probably worked on it a month on and off untill it was completed.It realy wasent that expensive buying the cummins engine used,and some machine work.Most of it was my time thinking about it and fabricating what we needed. But was well worth it in the long run as now the dozer had a more common engine that is easy to get parts for and wont break the bank when you go to overhaul it. Any questions holler and I'll try to answer them.

Scrub Puller
10-19-2013, 09:46 PM
Yair . . . td25c. Nice job mate.

I always thought the sixteens were a real nice tractor, easy to move but big enough to do something when you got there.

As a scoop (scraper) tractor the earlier ones were the ducks guts and I was surprised to see in an article the six-speeds only did 5.8mph . . . I recalled it to be much faster.

With a blip and double shuffle and maybe a judicious bump on the PCU you could shift up and down on the fly. I have good memories of moonlighting on a road job at times hauling near a mile.

Cheers

td25c
10-19-2013, 10:16 PM
Hey thanks Scrub. I agree the 16 is a nice size rigg.... Not to bad to move but big enough to move something at the jobsite. Heck we even slopped some color on it few years ago.

HATCHEQUIP
10-19-2013, 10:34 PM
TD Ive got a friend down the road that's been asking me about doing something like this on a fiat 21B

td25c
10-19-2013, 11:10 PM
It can be done HATCHEQUIP ;) The 21B uses the same 844 engine only it was after cooled & rated at higher horsepower.

DPete
10-20-2013, 11:45 AM
Nice work, innovation keeps the old brain cell working. I always liked the looks of Fiat Allis dozers, they are scarce here though, never got to see one in action

td25c
10-20-2013, 08:37 PM
Thanks Dpete and could not have said it better about Innovation exercising the brain cell :D. I actually done the cummins repower about 16 years ago and so far has stood the test of time. I have overhauled the cummins once sence the repower. What got it all started was shortly after I bought the 16B the crankshaft broke on a job.:( I looked at some used cranks and found small cracks forming around the oil gallys and dident like that. Called the Fiat-Allis dealer & priced a new crank ..........$5,500..........Dident like that idea either. Thats when I made the decision on the cummins engine. Ended up buying a 1983 Ford CL 9000 with a 300 cummins from my buddy for $2,500 and drove it home . Luckily I was an equipment machanic by trade so did most of the work myself. Also had worked for a fellow when in high school that was always fabricating or building something in the shop . Another fellow I have always admired is John Kinzenbaw , Founder of Kinze Manufacturing. www.kinze.com/about.aspx He also done engine conversions starting in the late 1960's installing 8-V71 detroits in the John Deere 5020's www.kinze.com/a-history-of-innovation.aspx

Andrew_D
10-20-2013, 10:14 PM
I was wondering about the same kind of repower for my HD11B (the original 11B, not the Series II). Displacement-wise, an 8.3L Cummins would be just right. But at 300HP, that's a fair bit more HP than the 516 Buda put out (120HP) so I'm not sure that the tranny and drivetrain could sustain it. So now I'm thinking that a 5.9L Cummins might be a better option. It started out around 160HP in 1989 Dodge Rams, so should be about right.

So far the 516Buda is still running, but it always good to be thinking ahead...

Andrew

td25c
10-20-2013, 10:41 PM
I think a 5.9 Cummins would be a great transplant engine in a HD11 Andrew_D:thumbsup

D6 Merv
10-21-2013, 03:45 AM
Is a chap on youtube repowered his old HD11B with a 6V71 I think, has got a few videos of her discing; but the noise !!!! [music ?? to some]
That was a great job of repowering that 16B. Seems for some reason Fiat Allis had some 844 crankshafts cast in japan, these are the ones that break, that and something to do with the crank counterweights, later ones had more weights and didn't crack, something like that anyway a AC fanatic told me all about them. All those Allis series B tractors had a great look to them.

zafar
10-21-2013, 06:07 AM
yup this picture is quite interesting

http://www.qu.edu.sa/en

http://www.qu.edu.sa/en

Queenslander
10-21-2013, 07:35 AM
Seems for some reason Fiat Allis had some 844 crankshafts cast in japan, these are the ones that break
Iam not 100% certain, but I believe some of these tractors were manufactured in Korea.
There is a gentleman importing components here from ex Korean army machines.
Cheers, Greg

td25c
10-21-2013, 09:01 PM
Is a chap on youtube repowered his old HD11B with a 6V71 I think, has got a few videos of her discing; but the noise !!!! [music ?? to some]
That was a great job of repowering that 16B. Seems for some reason Fiat Allis had some 844 crankshafts cast in japan, these are the ones that break, that and something to do with the crank counterweights, later ones had more weights and didn't crack, something like that anyway a AC fanatic told me all about them. All those Allis series B tractors had a great look to them.

Thats the way I heard it as well D6 Merv . My crank was made in japan. Every used crank I looked at also had small cracks developing around the oil gallys. The 17,000 844 engine ran great & made good power but on mine could not keep that crankshaft in one piece. I sure as heck wasent going to pay $5,500 on a new crank that might do the same over time. Although the new crank may have been the better improved model. I to liked the overall looks of the B series tractors. They push great as well:D

td25c
10-21-2013, 09:29 PM
I have to correct myself on the thickness, I mentioned in an earlier post about the adapter plate being 2inch thick . We actually started with a 1-1/2 thick plate that was torch cut out to shape. After it was cut I noticed it warped abit from the heat so we put it in a press to straiten it best we could. Then took it to a machine shop and had them mill both sides of the plate so we had a nice true surface on both sides. The finnished adapter plate thickness is 1- 5/16 inch.

td25c
10-21-2013, 10:01 PM
Had to do a little fabricating on the Fiat- Allis oil cooler. The original cooler had two cores,one for the engine oil and the other for the transmission. Both cores are identical. I droped the bottom core & welded hose fittings on the endcaps so I could plumb it to the block & cummins engine oil cooler. Also added a few pictures of the front engine mount & air cleaner mount. Both were pretty strait forward to deal with. Had to enlarge the center cradle on the front motor mount abit as front seal hub was larger on the cummins engine. also had to move the mount forward on the tractor frame about 2 inches & drill new holes. Air cleaner was pretty simple, added angle iron at the rear of the cummins and welded a small piece of steel that bolted in to the rocker box. Used 3 inch exhaust pipe for the turbo to the inner cooler and pvc pipe from the air cleaner to the turbo. LOL:D No modifications were needed for the starter as the 16-B used the same series delco starter as most trucks only the 16 starter is 24 volt.

HATCHEQUIP
10-21-2013, 10:15 PM
What no cleanout on the sewer line :tong that's a good way to solve that problem but can you imagine if you ever sell and someone goes back to the dealer and hands them that piece and wants another

td25c
10-21-2013, 10:34 PM
Lol HATCHEQUIP ..............Dont even start with the sewer line jokes :D Yeah .......... just walk in the local hardware store and the "know it all" guy behind the counter asks ..... " What is this PVC pipe fitting being used for? " Just say it's the intake pipe from the air cleaner to the turbo on my 1974 Fiat - Allis 16-b. Then comes the silence and deer in the headlights stare LOL :lmao

HATCHEQUIP
10-21-2013, 10:37 PM
but can you imagine the look on the fiat dealer

td25c
10-21-2013, 11:01 PM
That would be pretty funny seeing the look on the parts guy's face at a Fiat dealer. Probably be about the same as the feller at the hardware store. All BS aside thats the sad part of the story..... Fiat hasent supported these machines for years now. Fiat is a pretty sharp company as far as business go's..... They know when to get in something and when to get out & make money in the process. And then people like myself hang on to the brand and adapt & improvise as needed to keep an old Fiat going .LOL:D

HATCHEQUIP
10-22-2013, 11:38 AM
SO TRUE SO TRUE. and now dresser is probably the latest

D6 Merv
10-25-2013, 03:53 AM
Design and build was all American by Allis Chalmers; Fiat had no input at all, they just 'bought' a 70% share in AC and then proceded to dump a lot of the good tried and trusted AC products and replace them with Fiat products. Allis Chalmers HD6/11/16 were all dropped and replaced with fiat models 8/10/14/20. HD21/31/41 were kept for awhile then rebadged into fiat numbered models
It was almost sinful that the us government let a huge company like AC fade into the history books. Pity they couldn't have had the same bailout packages that they gave the big US auto companys got a few years ago.
FWIW Dresser have been bought by the Chinese company Luigong. International joined AC in the US history books of great construction machinery history :(

td25c
10-26-2013, 12:17 AM
Yep Hatch & D6Merv. I also fear Dressta will go to the wayside as well. My old 16-B is a 1974 model and if memory serves me correct thats when Fiat bought the Allis-Chalmers construction division. Oh well..... nothing lasts forever........ I heard somewhere on the internet that a company called Caterpillar also makes dozers . I might have to try one in the future.;)