13 ton v 7 ton with tiltrotator?

[Monrad]

Hey there Mac, gotta love the orange man, I run a ZX120 with standard big rear end ( love my women that way lol ) There are pro's and Con's with both those set ups and the only thing I can suggest is maybe go without the tiltrotor for a wee while, get set up with ya ZX130 with a grab and a tiltbucket and you be rockin, at least this way you can get working and make some money then further down the track set up ya rotor.

[mxridernrth]

Just curious Eddiebackblade as to your choice of tilts? I've only seen the Helac power-tilts and they are purported to be quite reliable and I know that in Europe they are used quite a bit (yes I know it's debatable whether the UK is part of Europe ) Granted they don't rotate, but I'm just curious as to how often you would need that extra degree of freedom? BTW, that’s quite the machine you’ve built there.

[Naomhan]

ZaxisMac, I have a used Engcon EC10 that I have no use for. The unit was only used for a short peroid of time and I could provide 2 digging buckets and a ditching bucket.
As I said the unit was only used for a short time but some pipes and a solinoid are robbed off it for another EC10. With this said the main guts are all there and it would probably only cost a few hundred quid to get it back to new. If you are intrested email me naomhan@hotmail.com It cost a small fortune and then the buckets but I would be willing to let it go at a fraction of the price as I don't need it.
I also have a nearly new EC15 but you would have to make me a really good offer on that one. They are both in Dublin about 3 miles from the airport.

Sorry to everyone for sounding like a sales man

[ZaxisMac]

Thanks for the offer Naomhan but I haven't bought a machine yet! I think I'm going to be going for a 13t machine and get it set up for a tilt bucket for now. There are some big jobs coming of next summer that are hopefully going to provide 12-18 months of steady work, I'm hoping that will justify a tiltrotator so I'm going to wait until before investing in one, unless a big job comes up before then!

Naomhan, do you mind me asking why you're selling these tilrotators? (Just hoping that you haven't found out that they aren't as useful as you expected when you first got them!)

[Eddiebackblade]

Welcome to you Mxridernth, may I just take the opportunity to say I have visited Victoria and you really live in a beautiful place.
However if you ever visit the UK I will personally take you to a Tea Shop for a real Cream Tea!
I have much experience with Tilt buckets, and have used a Helac on a Rubber Duck and 210 Komatsu.
Nothing at all wrong with them and seem very strong, but the units I used were early versions and lacked a full quick hitch instead you hooked up on one pin and pushed the other in manually.
I will say this unit seems to be fitted to most 'Spider' excavators and these are mighty strong tools capable of dishing out some punishment

As for the 'Extra Dimension' that a tiltrotator gives, it really is beyond compare.
Some will say I'm biased, but they really are the future now and anyone who doubts it better get on board soon.
However I will be the first to admit that they certainly aren't for every application or machine, but others it is virtually essential.
I would say that no Rubber Duck should be without one and 13 tonners are a good bet.

That leads me to Zaxismac, and going for a 13 tonne with a 'Tilt' bucket.
Mac I would check out who is paying what for a 'Tilt' set up and if it's anything like down here it's perhaps £20 per day extra.
You will pay for your 'Tiltrotator', but check out what's being paid for them.
A simple example would be a set of pallet forks that could put a Telehandler and Operator off a smaller site and £250 on your rate per week.
Worth a few calls.
I would be interested to know your 13 tonne shortlist, and would you go for a zero/reduced tailswing?

[mxridernrth]

Thanks Eddiebackblade! Victoria's not a bad place to call home but we do lack the history that makes the UK such great place. My British father-in-law goes on about it all the time. Makes you wonder why he left? He's actually there right now, as a matter of fact. I do like it there myself - except for the killer exchange rate. I don't suppose that the next time I'm there I could persuade you take me out for a pint rather than a cup of tea could I?

I'm actually planning on purchasing a spider excavator early in the new year and hope to make a go of it. Certainly a niche market so I'm crossing my fingers. The machine I'm looking at comes with a Helac, so we'll see how well it holds up. I'm also planning on immediately purchasing a roto grapple for the machine as I plan on doing a fair bit of rock work. It'd be nice to be able to run both implements at the same time, however the torsion is hard on the boom and stick pivots.

[Naomhan]

ZaxisMac, they are a great tool in the right hands. Personally I love using them but we were also running a hire company alongside our construction company which meant the machines were going to inexperienced drivers who were constantly breaking pipes and complaining about them because they could not use them. All breakages have been due to operator error.
I would echo Eddie’s sentiments that no rubber-duck should be without one. Until you use the forks and the grab you cannot comprehend how useful the tilt-rotator is. Unfortunately not all site managers and foremen can see how much savings a machine with this tool can make in terms of reduced machine hire and reduced personnel.
I will say that I find that on the smaller machines the weight of the unit is too much for them and also the width will cause problems. But on the right job they could well become indispensible.
To sum up, they are only as good as the man using it and to unlock the full potential requires a good driver.
Anyway you can keep my email address in case you need it in the future as the units have been sitting unused for a while so I could still very well have them.
Best of luck when you get your Hitachi and I think you are making the right choice going for a 13T over a 6T.

[Eddiebackblade]

Mxridernrth, any man who is talking of buying a 'Spider Hoe' is welcome to have a few pints with me.

Have a dig about on her to find Brian Hay, he runs one already with I believe a Helac powertilt and their very useful looking jaw bucket.
I think it's a Kaiser unit, but I could be wrong however.
One thing is certain he seems to know how to handle it and is somewhere in your teritory.

I have finally got my Engcon selector grab fully functioning, and the facility to 'Tilt' the grab appears extremely useful.
I am very pleased how the Kubota is handling all this weight, with a very respectable capacity still retained despite 2 quick hitches, Tiltrotator, Integral Grab and the Selector grab hanging off the end!
No stability problems with the big pads on though!

I doubt any 'Spider' unit will worry about a bit of weight on the end as they are massively strong to take all the forces exerted during walking/climbing etc.

Glad to hear of you planning to have a go at a niche, as I can fully relate to that and I wish you every success.

It should be me moaning about the Exchange rate as it's boom time for you at the moment. I'm over to Whistler in January and we'll certainly have to watch it compared with other years.

Finally I tried to ignore the jibe about the UK and Europe, all I can say is with the latest Treaty finally in place then Yes we finally are definately 'IN'.
However if anyone had bothered to ask the UK public then who knows?
Too late now though and no politics allowed on here.

[ZaxisMac]

I'll keep that in mind Naomhan, and I'll be sure to get in touch with you when I'm go to get a tiltrotator. You mention the tiltrotator is too wide for smaller machines, by that do you mean when you are digging a deep trench when the rotator is wider than the bucket? Do you find there is any other applications that the tiltrotator is not suited to? Also can you tell me what set up you found most useful (e.g. direct or QH mounted, engcon buckets etc)

Eddie, I have tried getting prices for hiring a machine with a tiltrotator but I can't find any nearby companies that actually have them! As for the tilt bucket I know that the company I used to work for used to charge an extra £2.50 an hour when the bucket was used (company I work for now has no tilt bucket). If I get the choice I would definately prefer to go for a zero swing machine - Zaxis 135 or New Holland E135sr. For a conventional swing machine I would go for Hitachi, Cat, Volvo or Komatsu. (Hitachi top of the list of course!!)

[mxridernrth]

Hey Eddie thanks for the heads up on Brian Hay. He's only a few hours from where I live and I've been meaning to head up and chat with him but alas, this has been one busy spring, summer, and fall.

I spent some time checking out videos on the Engcon units and they do seem to be pretty sweet. I wouldn't dare ask the price of a complete setup. Though perhaps one day, if everything goes well, I can entertain the thought of adding one to the setup. Perhaps you can post a video of your machine in action now that you've got everything working?

Have a great time skiing in Whistler! I grew up on those mountains. Fond memories... Give me shout if you're heading to the Island and I'll buy you that pint.

ZAxisMac - Good luck and keep us posted on your decisions.

[cps]

I found some info on this unit made by kinshofer-aponox, personally i like the build set-up, and the general compactness of it!

I'm not talking anything away from engcon or any tilt rotator manufacturer, as i have no experience of any type of tilt rotator!

The kinshofer-aponox has no tilt rams, it uses a hydraulic device inside to tilt it, this would leave it easier to dig trenches up aganist walls etc.

Il let you all see for yourself

[Eddiebackblade]

I too have seen this unit CPS and I was extremely impressed.

Kinshofer have an excellent reputation for their products such as clamshell buckets and brick grabs utilised on lorry loader cranes.

I think this unit with it's worm drives similar to a Helac Powetilt, represents a major advancement in tiltrotators and a much needed general tidy up of the concept.
However in my very short and limited experience and the feedback from everyone who has managed to blag a go in the Kubota, it's the proportional controls and joysticks coupled to a professional installation that really make the difference.

I would be interested to see which UK company has a go at distributing this unit or if a manufacturer takes it under licence.
Whatever i'd like a closer look at one and given their other products would expect to see some quality.

Just a note to Zaxismac, and the fact that he couldn't find anyone around him with a tiltrotator to find out what they charge!
I would take that as a great situation to be in and an open opportunity for someone to take the plunge.
Oliver at JCC will fill you in with companies running units up there, and is usually aware of machines coming onto the market already kitted out with an Engcon.
I never posted pics but actually turned down an as new 150hour CAT 312cl with a direct mount Engcon to buy the Kubota, it was a little over £40,000 and great value if I was heading that direction.
Just demonstrates what can come up if you dig around hard enough.

[Harry Hopper]

Hi Guys
Just started reading this forum and I am finding it great. you might want to look at this. http://www.contractjournal.com/blogs...e_uk.html#more
This is the next generation of tilt rotators, I have been working in sweden for the past 4 months and this is all they are talking about. the guys i was working
with reckon it is miles ahead of the others. anyway i am getting back to my reading.

Harry

[ZTS Plant]

Hi ZaxisMac,

I run a few machines here in Scotland all zero tail swing and all with tiltrotators, what area are you in? I hope you understand I don't want to give my competition a heads upon my rates. I read in your previous post you spoke to JCC, these guys just sold my last JZ70 machine and wanted the Engcon with it. They may have offered you it to you, where you there customer?
On the dilema of tiltrotator or no tiltrotator, alls I can say is anyone can dig a hole but to do the fancy jobs you need to look ahead and at the better paid work!
Good Luck!!

[ZaxisMac]

Hi ZTS

Don't worry, I pretty sure I won't be in competition with you, I'm based up in the north west, and I have yet to see a company running tiltrotators up here! I only got prices from JCC, they told me about a few used tiltrotators they have in stock but they didn't mention any used machines.

At the moment I'm going to look out for a 13t machine (preferably zero swing) and get it set up for a tilt bucket and get the tiltrotator next year. Thanks to everyone for the links to the other manufacturers, I have been in touch with Kinshofer and Steelwrist and hopefully will have a rough idea of prices next week.

Eddie, do you know if that 312 is still for sale? I doubt it because it was a cracking deal!!