Super wide singels

[Nac]

Does anybody know if there is an advantage or not on running super wide singles in the rear?

[digger242j]

Uhhh....When you get a flat you know right away?

Seriously, other than possibly not getting a lot of mud up in between the duals, I can't think of an advantage. I always looked at dual tires as an advantage for the redundancy factor. If you do get a flat, you're not out of commission right then and there. I think especially in construction, with the increased amount of hazards to tires, singles would be a disadvantage.

On the other hand, it seems like some of the heavy military stuff has big singles... :beatsme

[Steve Frazier]

There are a couple companies near here that run them. I think it works out to be a little cheaper to put 8 super singles on over 14 standard tires. Plus, there would be an advantage when paing tolls. Here you are charged by the tire for tolls.

[kamerad47]

If you you can't run caps in the rear on these there is no advantage!!! Isn't the tolls per axle???

[Nac]

Not to get any body confused I am talking about on a vocational truck not a tractor trailer. Me personly I do not like to run recaps. Do you think that there would be more or less traction off road and what about in the snow. I am not sure about the tolls it is very confusing here in NJ. With a dully pickup it is still one axle and they charge you more than a sandard pickup. I tough it was by axle too that at least what the signs say but I think they make up the rules as they go along

[Steve Frazier]

Super singles can be capped. Today's caps are comparable to virgin tires in dependability and wear. I wouldn't run them on a steering axle though, there's always that chance of failure.

Our local tolls are determined by number of axles and tires per axle. every locale is different, so in some places there might not be a savings in tolls.

[will_gurt]

I was under the impression that running caps on the steering axle is illegal. It is very unnearving when a cap breaks loose to say the least.

[Dwan Hall]

Will;
same understanding I have

[will_gurt]

It is very unnearving when a cap breaks loose to say the least.

Personal happenings here. Had one tire literally fly apart at the joint between the casing and the cap. This is why I WILL NOT use caps anywhere if possible.

[xkvator]

super wide singleswhen i saw that title, i thought this was about one of those 900 #'s advertised on TV at 2am saturday night :drinkup

Oh yea...TIRES...I've had caps and new tires come apart on me on trailers at highway speeds...if you pick up a nail and start losing air pres., the heat is going to tear either one apart.

[Squizzy246B]

In our more remote grain regions the super single equipped trucks just kill the duals. We have several large areas that are not well serviced by rail and the gravel roads break up during the grain season and become very sandy. I remember the farmers parking a loader on the side of the road in the worst parts so the truckies could pull each through.

My Dad was driving a super single equipped eight wheeler at the time. With the auto trans he just hold a gear and plough on through the sand while all the other trucks were bogged. The singles where better out in the padocks too. Redundancy is a factor though.

[kamerad47]

I don't know the price of a super single but a 11x24 tire is right around the $425.00 range a front float is in the $600.00 range & them you throw out when there done! I don't how you make it not runing caps ,all my rear tires are caps, I buy new for the front before the wear out I cap them & put the on the rear! A cap runs some where around $150.00 & up.

[Steve Frazier]

I some cases a super single will have better traction than duals. squizzy mentions one case, mud is another area where they are better. Mud clogs the area between the duals preventing the tire from reaching solid ground. That doesn't happen with super singles, they can dig down to firm ground for better traction.

[littledenny]

From the military point of view, many of the newer trucks are running singles for floatation, not speed or wear factors, but then again, they don't operate on the concept of profit margin. Larger diameters means greater weight capacity, traction, and floatation.

Beginning to see many commercial fleet tractors wearing singles on the rear end, when before it was mainly just the occasional trailer. Even seen a fuel hauler sporting 10 where you'd have expected 18. Suspect they must trust the idea of singles, or they wouldn't do it.

European trucks have been sporting singles for years, but than again they often are single rear axles on the tractor, and three axles on the trailer. Makes for a better turning tractor, but tends to really scuff the last set on the trailers.

The 915 series of tractor trailers the army fielded in the late 70's were basically commercial rigs, to replace the fleet of International cabovers and commercial trailers they used to use in 37th Gp in Europe. They came out with a 40 foot, three axle, 12 tire trailer to haul ammo - was legally rated for 108K gross, nationwide. These trucks replaced the old generation of tactical 5 Ton tractors with a 27 foot two axle, eight tire trailer. Was rated for 34 tons, cross country. Oddly enough, the newer version of tactical trucks are dual rear axle single tires on the tractors, but still with a newer version of the 27 foot trailer, still wearing two axles, and 8 tires.

[Jeff D.]

We have a trucking company here in Minnesota called Fillmor that decided to pursue loads with the selling point that they could haul greater weight that the competition.

They spec'd out their new trucks to conserve weight wherever possible,and one of those areas was by running the "super singles" on their drives,and trailers.

I don't know what amount of weight savings there was by running the singles alone,but with everything they changed they were able to pick up an incredible amount of freight weight over our company.(I think it was in the area of 6000Lbs. per load) I am skeptical about their actually saving that much,but our company had a max ld weight of 46,000lbs on average,and that extra capacity they carried cost us one customer for sure.

Personally I would shy away from them,for the same reasons others mentioned(redundancy as a plus).The insurance of two tires could make a difference if a tire blows in a situation where you couldn't afford to lose the support of that axle.(gradual high speed turn,curve,etc.)

[Ford LT-9000]

Hi I'am a new member :waving

The reasons why most vocational trucks don't use super singles for drives is cost they are not cheap, if you do get a blow out the truck is pretty much crippled, the capacity isn't as high is duals a set of 425/65R22.5 have a 11,400lb per tire a 11R-22.5 has a 12,010 capacity per pair 11R-24.5 13,220lbs.

So if you add up the tire capacity on the rear of a tandem axle running

425 supers drive tires 45,600lbs
11R-24.5 52,880

a difference of 7280lbs.

If you totaled up the total tire capacity so a tandem axle dump truck both running with 425 supersingles on steer axle

Truck with 425 drives 68,400
Truck with 11R-24.5 75,680

You figure a truck with 20,000lb front and 46,000lb drives gives you a manufacturers gvw of 66,000lbs so running a truck with super single drives only gives you a fudge factor of 2400lbs the other truck 9600lbs

As for running recaps not a problem its all what the guys here run they last the longest never had a cap peal yet. We run the deepest lug you can buy the bandag tread caps uses are Lug Trac,WH Lug,Lug Logger,Rock Lug Modified,BDY 1

The Oliver tread caps Toiga Goodyear recaps G-177

The local tire shops had some specials on new tires they were the Double Coin I forget the model it was a deep lug and Kelly Spring Field deep lug.

[Nac]

Well I am intrested in a New Volvo VHD rolloff unit. I would like to spec it out with all aluminium wheels floats in front a 3 sets of singles in rear with 3 drive axles not 2 with a lift axle.

[Nac]

Goodyear G178SS (http://www.goodyear.com/cfmx/web/truck/line.cfm?prodhiercode=service&prodline=161000&prodline_name=G178SS) 445/65/22.5 have a 12,300 lb per tire rating so that is 24,600 per axle 49,200 for a tandem 73,800 for a tridem

[Jeff D.]

Nac,wouldn't having three drive axles down continuously be hard on the tires when turning?I'm not familiar with voc. trucks,but I haven't seen three drive axles on semi's(where they're all powered)only tandem drives with a lift.That's nice as you can unload one set while turning,to prevent scuffing.I have seen them where the lift is steerable also(by the road surface).Three drives(if they all were powered)would be complicated,with having two power dividers locks,but I'm sure it could be possible.I think it may be overkill,with the extra weight,and more cost,plus the added mantainance of an additional powered drive.
You may very well have a good reason to want it that way,if that would fit your application best.I think the singles would work good for that type of truck,especially if you could have the steers the same size as the drives.Then you could recap them and move them to a drive position when they're worn.

[Jeff D.]

Oop's,I reread your earlier threads,and saw that you didn't run recaps.Disregard the last part of my message.

[Steve Frazier]

I just read in a Michelin ad that singles save fuel as well, I suppose from reduced friction and drag. The ad claims a 4% fuel milage increase. Plus, they advertise nearly a 1000 pound weight savings by converting to singles.

[Ford LT-9000]

Tridrive trucks are common as mud here they are mainly used for logging trucks. If I was going to buy a tridrive it would either be a Kenworth T-800 or a Mack Granite. As for running single wide tires on the drive wheels of a tri drive not a good idea you will run the risk of pealing the tire off the rim.

Tridrives are hard on tires the center axle is the pivot the furthest rear axle drives the other two axles go long for the ride till you lock the interlock in for the front two axles. You lock the diff locks in for all three axles the truck is going to go straight no way of turning :bouncegri

If you do run the single wides you would want the heaviest sidewall you can get you probably will want to run a all position tread so the tires slide easier when turning.

[Nac]

Yes you can order a tridem (3 drive axles) I have had to pull many trucks out of the mud or out of gravel tracking pads with my excavtor. Since I have been doing a lot of demo work I am looking into getting my own rolloff truck. And with a tridem/ triaxle if you where to get a flat you still have the other 2 axles. Can you run a superwide on the front axle the tire is 18" wide

[digger242j]

And with a tridem/ triaxle if you where to get a flat you still have the other 2 axles.

Are you suggesting that you'd run with the only tire at one end of an axle, flat?

[Jeff D.]

I wonder if he didn't mean in an emergency situation?At least it wouldn't roll over,if you had a blow-out,with two additional axles supporting it.Or you could at least get off the road and parked unlike a single drive axle,with no tag.

I'm almost afraid to post anymore.The one area I thought I knew something(Trucks) I find out,I'm ignorant their too!! :) I never realized they had tridems(3 powered drives)but after my earlier post I see Nac had a link to a Kenworth site that proved they did,in a different thread.They must be rare though,I've always seen lift axles,when the capacity needed to be greater than a tandem.LT9000 said they used them in BC also,for logging.

I had assumed the "super singles" used on the drives could fit a steer axle,but I'm probly wrong again,as per usual.They could have interference problems with the steering components due to turning,I supose??

Nac,I can tell you with confidence,that I'm SURE that they're(Tires) all black,round when new,and will leave skid marks in the dirt when you fail to check if your brakes are frozen,like mine this morning! ;)

[kamerad47]

Why Nac would you want a tri drive truck in NJ ????? there is no reason for it!!!! Why do you want floats ?? they use them to run light weight front axles for weight ?? A normal triaxle is what you need !! A tri drive would probably weight more & would suck fuel & be slow on the highway & would cost $150.000..000!!!!!!!

[Ford LT-9000]

A truck with lift axles is a POS a tridrive will carry more weight you have way better traction more stability etc. Each drive axle is 23,000lbs each so you have 69,000lbs of axle capacity plus your 20,000lb front axle capacity so you have a manufactures gvw of 89,000lbs.

The other option for a truck that will carry more weight is go with a tandem tandem you run a truck with twin 18,000lb steer axles and 46,000lb tandems gives you a gvw of 82,000lbs.

I wouldn't run single wides on a tridrive thou I already explained why you won't save that much in weight either. Most tridrives here have all aluminum bud wheels anyhow.

[Cat420]

While we are looking at different truck options, have you looked into a tandem drive with lift axle and front drive axle? I don't have a clue what it would be like for weight capacity or price, but it is another option to look into. Good luck with whatever you get.

[Dwan Hall]

Here in Alaska DOT does not reconise lift axles. if it lifts it does not add anything to the capacity of the truck. They are not aginst the law just they do nothing toard the GVW in the eyes of DOT. There are a lot of wide front tires here on cement mixers. 99.9% run duels on the rears of there trucks and if it is realy going to get messy they install over the tire tracks as needed then remove them on the road.
My 63 REO runs 14,500 lb empty and gross @ 48,000 so that lets me cary a legal load of about 33,000. My L900 colcks in @ 23,500 and gross @ 52,000 which only alowes me to carry 28,500. Unless you are going to be real rouff on the truck think about looking for a light waight. When DOT load restrictions go on I can still run my REO at 75% and still carry more then any other truck in town. And don't say the light waight trucks don't last because this truck is going on 43 years old and still running.

[Nac]

Nothing is set in stone yet I am exploring all my options. Tandem with a lift axle, Tridem (3 drive axles), Single wide tires vs. tandem tires. I am checking priceing for all combanations and also weight savings or loss. There are problems with tandems with a lift axle once off road you lift the axle so you dont get hungup and that where your overloading the drive axles on the worst terrain, also sometimes you get hung up because of the lift axle. As i get more info i will keep you informed,

[Ford LT-9000]

That is the biggest problem with lift axles is once you get off road they take the weight off the drives and your stuck. Even with the lift axle in the lifted position the wheels will still contact the ground and lift the drive wheels off.

[Nac]

Well I should have a price on a truck on Monday. I priced a Volvo VHD triaxle and a Wester Star 4900 SA tridem both with around 410 HP and 8LL trans with 385 up front and 445 in the rear. So we will see what the price diffrence is

[Ford LT-9000]

You are spec'ing the trucks with 14 litre power not a 10-12 litre engine trying to produce 410hp. I would also stay away from the Volvo engines they are junk same with the volvo transmissions.

Most gravel and rolloff trucks here are running minimum 450hp 14litre engines as usual with the highest torque you can get 1550-1650ftlbs.

You will also want to run the 445s on the steer axle then you get the full 20,000lb axle capacity plus you have all the same size tire so if you never need a spare your not running a different tire.

With the Western Star you want the 14L series 60 the 12L is a tad small for the tandem axle trucks. The Mercedes is 450hp its only 12L power a little small aswell its a good engine its a little unproven in the North American market.

The Series 60 is a proven performer and its decent on fuel and cheap to repair the Mercedes and Volvo engines are not cheap to repair.

The reason why you want the 14 litre engine is for the durability a bigger engine producing 400hp than a maxed out small block engine putting out 400hp. You also want the bigger displacement engine for the JAKE power.

[Nac]

I belive it ia a 13 L engine. With Volvo you have to get a Volvo motor that is the only option. With a 385 up front you have almost 19,000 rating I think you can not get enough weight on 445 up front definatly will float over everything. The dealer is not sure if the 445 will fit up front they are ckecking on it. Also the bigger the motor more money more weight. Will see once i have all the info infront of me

[Ford LT-9000]

I looked up the engine spec's yesterday its a 12l engine still a little engine putting out 400hp. You can max the front axle pretty easy if you pull on a real heavy box.

If you go with a VHD you can only get the one engine if you go with a Western Star which would be my first choice then you go with a series 60 (14l) with 450-475hp.

The other think I'am not so sure of is the T ride suspension Volvo uses.

[Nac]

Well here is the scoop:
2007 Western Star 4900SA Chassis for rolloff
Set back axle with super visibility hood
MBE 4000-450 12.8L 450HP 1550LB/FT compresion and turbo brake
Eaton Fuller 8LL Trans
20,000 Front axle with 22.5x13 Alum. and 445/65R22.5 Goodyear G178SS
69,000 Tridem rear axle with 22.5x13 Alum. and 445/65R22.5 Goodyear G178SS
$118,159.00 chassis only

[Ford LT-9000]

Oops I misread your post anyhow so you are getting a tridem chassis which is still a little high. The reason why the price is high is the demand for tridrives in the Alberta oil fields is so high.

I'am still a little concerned about the Mercedes being up to the task especially with a tridrive most guys here will spec a tridrive truck with ISX and C-15 Cat with a 18spd.

If your looking for another good chassis look at a Mack Granite CV713. The new Granite series trucks are alot nicer compared to the old R models. Mack builds tridrive trucks aswell for redimix applications.

I don't know what type of hoist you want to run a hook lift or conventional rails. The hooklift system will probably cost 30 grand plus bins the conventional rail system probably 20 grand.

I think the problem your dealers are having is tridrive trucks are probably not that common in your area. Here on Western Canada (B.C. and Alberta) tridrive trucks are common as mud their popularity is growing there is waiting lists.

Heres the thing you have to re-evaluate do you need a tridrive truck ?

[Nac]

Well i have the Western star spec sheet but the dealer gave it to me with just the total cost no by option, so I am wating for the one by options to see what the tridem is costing and what the wheel options are costing more. He in NJ a triaxle (tandem + lift axle) with a 75,000 LB rolloff and auto tarper runs around 135,000-140,000. So this truck scould come in at 145,000-150,000 about 10,000 more

[Ford LT-9000]

That is still alot of money for a rolloff truck I converted that to CND it comes to 173,610 dollars :eek2

You still have to buy bins thats another 5 grand each are you sure its even worth buying a rolloff truck ?

As for a truck with a lift axle I don't like them in the US you guys have them on every truck either your guys roads are built on mush or your DOT doesn't realize what a truck can carry on 3 axles.

A regular tandem axle rolloff truck here can gross 58,000lbs and can carry a 40 yard bin of most material off of a construction site. You just have to use common sense not to overload the bin if you know if the material is heavy.

The customer your working for is just going to have to pay for the disposal fees if it takes you multiple trips to get rid of the debris sobeit.

I would try find a used rolloff truck or a used truck and put a rolloff hoist on to it. I really can't see a brandnew rolloff truck costing you that much money you are close enough to Ontario Canada I think you might be better off looking for a truck there. That dealer you are dealing with sounds like a rip off artist.

I just looked at truck paper.com and found 2006 (new) Kenworth T-800s with 75,000lb hoists 128,000 to 132,000.

I found a 2006 new Sterling standard duty tandem roll off 96,000 and a new Sterling Heavy duty tandem 99,000. Brandnew 2006 Mack CV713 tandems 119,000.

Start searching the dealer your dealing with has the KY Jelly out you are gonna get screwed :bouncegri

[Nac]

Those prices you find onthe internet you have to compare apples to apples not apples to oranges. Also you have to check if FET is include (12% Tax) Now I am talking a high HP engine Alum wheels 75,000 hoist Auto tarper all Led lights power everthing this is not a bare bones truck. In NJ you can haul 70,000 with tandem 80,000 with Triaxle. I have filled 30cy general debris boxes loading it with my excavator to 28 tons general debris mostly wood. I have compared and those are the prices here in NJ I am still shoopoing around. Buying used id not real option around hear either they still want to much money or the truck is junk I see used Autocars still geting 90,000 dollars.

[Ford LT-9000]

The truck prices that I'am comparing the prices you got to prices of trucks here which are owner operator spec'ed trucks. I still think you are getting bent over and reamed hard.

Your not choosing big power a 12 litre engine isn't big power big power is a 515hp ISX Cummins or a C-15 Cat with a 18spd behind it. Aluminum wheels are pretty much standard issue on trucks now LED lights are standard issue.

I don't know do you have experience with a regular rolloff truck I know you have the hooklift have you ever run a regular conventional rail truck pulling on a full 40 yard bin ?

You have to remember you have all that weight sitting on two 4" wide rails the back of the can is held down with 2 chains at the rail tails the front is held with the reeving cable.

You get that much weigh above the wheels the truck is tippy when your hauling 15 tons in a box which is "technically overloaded" you can feel it on the truck in the corners.

The only way you are going to get 28 ton in a 30 yard bin is if its dirt or wet soggy gyproc you will never get 28 tons of waste wood into a 30 yard bin. I should know as I worked at a landfill I also worked for a excavation contractor with rolloff truck with a 70,000lb hoist.

As for grossing a tandem to 70,000lbs you don't have the braking capacity for that a regular tandem axle dump with 20,000lb front axle and 46,000lb rear axles has just enough braking power to stop the truck carrying 18 ton.

We have to decend the 8-10% grade hills we have here you definatly need a good strong JAKE as the trucks brakes are not going to stop the truck.

Like I said shop around you are going to find a better deal oh ya I still don't think the super single drive tires are a good idea they are not meant for vocational trucks. Wait till you gash your first tire you do know 445/65R22.5s are close to 800-1000 dollars each where as a 11R-24.5 recap is only 350-400 dollars.