Food plots

[stumpjumper83]

who here does food plots for game. what for drill seeder do you use? I'm looking to get into it. I have a trackloader for any clearing that might be necessary as well as several small ag tractors with three point. looking at using a rototiller for tillage, then follow it with a small drill or a packer seeder. Whats your thoughts...

[NateV]

What iv done for mine is use our tractor with the 3pt plow, then use a set of disc to smooth it all out. Then i just broadcast the seed out and use a lawn roller hooked up to my quad and go over it 1 time and pray for rain.

Now next yr i want to start planting some corn and need to find a drill or something for that.

Turned out good.

[stumpjumper83]

Looks good nate. I'm looking to do it as a business in Potter co., as well as manage the plots on my father's farm. I think i'm going to get too much into transporting a tractor, disk, drill, and roller/cullipacker which is what makes me think that a rototiller and a packer seeder is the way to go. Looking at Kasco, suckup, landpride, and great plains also make a small drills w/ grass boxes. I have access to several older 4 row corn planters to handle that as well.

[roddyo]

You need to Ax the roto tiller, they work the ground up to much and are terrible in rocks. It's hard to beat a disc and a drag. Not a lot of money tied up and works really good. As far as no till goes we have a Tye Pasture Pleaser and it works pretty good. It takes a big tractor to pull a small no till drill though, not to mention the cost. What kind of ground are you dealing with? Sandy, Rocky, Hard ETC.

[stumpjumper83]

Most of the work will be in old farm ground, with some being in freshly cleared ground. No till will not be an immediate option as the ground isnt ready to to till just yet. Maybe after the second year the ground will be able to be no tilled. Alsot of the ground is rocky. We dont really have a clay soil that will bake into a hard pan.

The big tractor we have right now is a IH 966 so I should be good there.

[roddyo]

We have a No Till Drill and I can't imagine buying or using one for food plot work. If it was me I would buy a Three point disc 6 to 8 feet wide "USED", a Three point Seeder and a NEW drag harrow 8 to 12 feet wide. By going with 3 point equipment you can load in on a 16 foot trailer. You can get in the business for between $3,000.00 and $4,000.00 this way. Or you can spend 3 to 4 times that much for a No Till Drill and spend about $3,000.00 a year on maintance. You don't need to think about farming in this food plot work, you need Very Little dirt. The KEY is "Contact Points" getting the seed to Touch the ground. On ground that has just been cleared sowing it on top of the ground and running a harrow is good enough. I have done A LOT of these things using a horse drawn disc pulled behind a 4X4 Truck, Sowing them by hand and Dragging over them with a Cedar Tree I cut down on site.

[Gary in da UP]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned adding a lime/fertilizer spreader to your list of needed implements. Soil quality is directly related to antler growth in deer, good genetics of couse are important but planting in poor soil is'nt the best use of your time, fuel, seed. Soil testing is not expensive, fertilizer can be, but a food plot with healthy plants will endure drought better and attract more critters and thats what you want ,right?

[NateV]

As far as lime, this year i got about 6 ton and just tried to tail gate spread it but it didnt work that great but it was good enough. Then i just plowed it under and disc it around which mixed it up good enough for me.

[Deere9670]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned adding a lime/fertilizer spreader to your list of needed implements. Soil quality is directly related to antler growth in deer, good genetics of couse are important but planting in poor soil is'nt the best use of your time, fuel, seed. Soil testing is not expensive, fertilizer can be, but a food plot with healthy plants will endure drought better and attract more critters and thats what you want ,right?

what he said, soil testing is very important, and the second most important is weed control, and finding a selective herbicide that wont kill your crop. We no-till everthing on our farm, but I would say stay away from that unless you do your home work on it. What seed will you plant, what state, what soil. I need this information to be able to give detailed advice.

[Deere9670]

nateV- if you want to grow corn you will need to do some research on it. Its not a low maintance crop to grow, and it is not cheap either. It takes a planter to plant too, not a drill. Corn needs alot of N,P, and K to do good, so dont skimp on fert. I would shy away from planting it, and say buy a small drill and plant soybeans or clover, chicory, etc. The planting conditions will be key in your sucess, dont plant to early into a cold wet soil, wait till it warms up and drys out.

[Gary in da UP]

What Deere9670 sez about herbicides and no til are right on the money, plus you need an applicators certifacation to buy and apply the good stuff.

[roddyo]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned adding a lime/fertilizer spreader to your list of needed implements. Soil quality is directly related to antler growth in deer, good genetics of couse are important but planting in poor soil is'nt the best use of your time, fuel, seed. Soil testing is not expensive, fertilizer can be, but a food plot with healthy plants will endure drought better and attract more critters and thats what you want ,right?

I agree on the lime and fertilizer but we are talking about making money too. No more than you put out you can't charge enough. At $6.00 a ton if you spread 6 tons that's $36.00, the going rate where I live for Lime Spreading. Say you double it your talking $72.00 how much equipment can you buy for $72.00 Gross? The best way to do these small jobs is get your fertilize on the weekend and use their buggy to spread lime, you will have to make about 3 trips over the field to get enough on.

The problem with food plots is the size 1/4 to 3 acres where I live. you spend more time turning than going straight. Your going to tear up more than you will make draging a No-Till Drill around in a small circle over rough ground. Your better off spraying it, waiting 2 weeks, going back and discing around the edges, burning it, sowing it on top of the ground and running a harrow over it once or twice, getting paid and going to the house.

I will get some pictures on my web site of some food plots that were hand sown behind the dozer. No discing or harrowing just seed on top of the bare ground. It will be the end of next week before I can get the pictures up.

Here's a picture of a really nice food plot in Randolph County Arkansas. Most food plots are a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the size of this one. http://www.rodneyobrien.com/foodplots.htm

[Turbo21835]

From what i have read, turnips and clover are the way to go for whitetails. This is what I will be using for a foodplot next year.

[roddyo]

From what i have read, turnips and clover are the way to go for whitetails. This is what I will be using for a foodplot next year.

One of the food plots they sowed behind the dozer was Turnips, I'll get a picture up next week. Down here it's mostly winter wheat, turnips and clover. There are a few people that plant soybeans and peas

[Deere9670]

The problem with food plots is the size 1/4 to 3 acres where I live. you spend more time turning than going straight. Your going to tear up more than you will make draging a No-Till Drill around in a small circle over rough ground. Your better off spraying it, waiting 2 weeks, going back and discing around the edges, burning it, sowing it on top of the ground and running a harrow over it once or twice, getting paid and going to the house.

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I have to disagree with the burning, and the dozing. If you burn your ground, you will burn off lime if you have applied it already, as well as other nutrients that may be present. You will also burn off organic matter, which is crucial for the soil.
As for running a dozer over your food plot, I have to say thats a no-no as well. Compaction is a farmers worst enemy.

[Deere9670]

From what i have read, turnips and clover are the way to go for whitetails. This is what I will be using for a foodplot next year.

Never attempted turnups, but I planted a clover mix last spring and I was amazed at how easy of a crop it was to maintain, and how well it did in less then ideal conditions. Deer dident eat it like I thought they would though:Pointhead I think I will spray it in the spring with some 2-4-d or roundup and then plant some soybeans, because the deer love them.

[Turbo21835]

I hunt along side a 25 acre bean field, I dont really need the plot for attracting animals. Rather I want the nutrition for bullwinkle

[NateV]

There were some turnips mixed in this wildlife seed blend i planted last yr but my deer never touched them. I had some that were the size of a cantalope, they were pretty big.


And about the corn i just planed on liming the feild and thats it. My neigbor has an old corn planter im gonna check out to see if its still good or not. If not i guess i can just get a broom stick and make holes lol..

but what about in the old days, i dont think the old timers worried about lime..didnt they just plow and plant?? Thats pretty much what i was gonna do.

[stumpjumper83]

If you want to bring the deer in, plant edible beans. Thats green beans to most people. Deer are on them like white on rice.

Thanks to those that mentions soil testing, I'm implementing that but didn't mention it. For me a soil test costs $8, and that $$ tells me right away if its even worth plantin in. See my background is that of a crop farmer, not an excavator.

Nice thing with turnips is that they are edible in january when nothing else is.

Oh, and first pass thru new ground will be done w/ my deere 450c trackloader, and just tickling the ground with the teeth. Thats alot easier of a machine to find an old machine, big rock, tree stump or something with than it is to ruin a tire on one of my other tractors.

[roddyo]

I have to disagree with the burning, and the dozing. If you burn your ground, you will burn off lime if you have applied it already, as well as other nutrients that may be present. You will also burn off organic matter, which is crucial for the soil.
As for running a dozer over your food plot, I have to say thats a no-no as well. Compaction is a farmers worst enemy.

I don't mean to be rude but in the type of work that I Do
I have to disagree with almost everything you said.:D After going to my web site and looking at this picture http://rodneyobrien.com/foodplots.htm Stumpjumper asked me some food plot questions on another thread. I have just been telling him what works in my area.

Lime is a rock, when a fire goes over it it is still there. We don't do it very often but when we need to lime before wheat beans we lime, burn and plant. If you want to dig through the ashes the lime's still there. The only way to lose lime other than using it up is through leaching and erosion.

Yes if you burn you will lose almost all of the organic matter and the N. The P and K Stays. I know that every 1% of organic matter is worth 20 units of N per acre. In this area you can buy 2 tons of chicken litter that will gain you more organic matter than 10 years of "Good" farming practices. Plus you get a list of trace minerals as long as your arm for free.:D The reason I'm for burning and sowing on top of the ground and covering with a good drag is it eliminates 2 mistakes most people make here.

1)They work their ground to much and get their seed to deep.

2)They work their ground to much and it comes a big rain and they lose their topsoil. It would take 500 years of organic matter here to make an inch of top soil.

I know this is ideal for No-Till but dragging a Drill down a four wheeler trail to pull it around in a circle in a half a dozen fields to cover 6 acres isn't ideal on the pocket book.

As far as the dozer in a food plot goes it's in there clearing the food plot out. "Compaction is a farmers worst enemy" The ground pressure of my dozer is about 5 PSI. To run a tractor in that food plot it would need to weigh under 2880 lbs. if it had 4 12X12 contact patches. By the way what has more ground pressure a 8400 MFWD or a 8400T?

[stumpjumper83]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_oxide

Yes, an improper fire can cook the lime out. To cook the lime out require a hot, and staying fire. I think what roddyo is doing is a quicker fire that esentially just burns the old grasses and leaves at the top. If your burn actually burnt the top soil then you screwed up, but burning is a proven method in clearing, as well as in western agriculture. And even if you do burn the lime out, it will absorb carbon dioxide over time and turn into lime again.

[Deere9670]

I don't mean to be rude but in the type of work that I Do
I have to disagree with almost everything you said.:D After going to my web site and looking at this picture http://rodneyobrien.com/foodplots.htm Stumpjumper asked me some food plot questions on another thread. I have just been telling him what works in my area.

Lime is a rock, when a fire goes over it it is still there. We don't do it very often but when we need to lime before wheat beans we lime, burn and plant. If you want to dig through the ashes the lime's still there. The only way to lose lime other than using it up is through leaching and erosion.

Yes if you burn you will lose almost all of the organic matter and the N. The P and K Stays. I know that every 1% of organic matter is worth 20 units of N per acre. In this area you can buy 2 tons of chicken litter that will gain you more organic matter than 10 years of "Good" farming practices. Plus you get a list of trace minerals as long as your arm for free.:D The reason I'm for burning and sowing on top of the ground and covering with a good drag is it eliminates 2 mistakes most people make here.

1)They work their ground to much and get their seed to deep.

2)They work their ground to much and it comes a big rain and they lose their topsoil. It would take 500 years of organic matter here to make an inch of top soil.

I know this is ideal for No-Till but dragging a Drill down a four wheeler trail to pull it around in a circle in a half a dozen fields to cover 6 acres isn't ideal on the pocket book.

As far as the dozer in a food plot goes it's in there clearing the food plot out. "Compaction is a farmers worst enemy" The ground pressure of my dozer is about 5 PSI. To run a tractor in that food plot it would need to weigh under 2880 lbs. if it had 4 12X12 contact patches. By the way what has more ground pressure a 8400 MFWD or a 8400T?

Ok you can keep burning your lime off, its your money going up in smoke, not mine. I do agree about the P and K staying, but with todays N prices, burning it off just doesent make any sense! As for your dozer, why are we comparing with an 8400 size tractor? You just stated that we were planting 6 acres of 4 wheeler trail, may I ask were the 8400 tractor comes into play. If I were doing a 6 acre food plot, I would say somthing like a 4020 would be as big of a tractor that I would need:cool: How does that compare on ground pressure to you dozer.:D And yes a track tractor will put out less ground pressure. I do agree with your statement on overworking the soil, and losing topsoil, and getting the seed too deep, but I still say that that can be avoided, by making a pass with your drill and checking seed depth, and adjusting accordindly, and just not over working the ground.

[Deere9670]

There were some turnips mixed in this wildlife seed blend i planted last yr but my deer never touched them. I had some that were the size of a cantalope, they were pretty big.


And about the corn i just planed on liming the feild and thats it. My neigbor has an old corn planter im gonna check out to see if its still good or not. If not i guess i can just get a broom stick and make holes lol..

but what about in the old days, i dont think the old timers worried about lime..didnt they just plow and plant?? Thats pretty much what i was gonna do.

I think it takes a frost for the turnups to ripen enough were the deer will touch them. As for the old times, I dont know what they did for commerical fert, as most used manure as a substitute. As for just plowing and planting, that wont work. You would have to plow in the fall, then come back in the spring and smooth it out with a disk or cultivator. Plowing has become a thing of the past, and there are better methods, but there are alot of factors involved, so I would say get some advice from the guy with the planter, because he can guide you in the right direction. See what his tillage methods are, and see what he does for fert. :drinkup

[NateV]

Well the turnips were in all summer and there till spring and they never touched them. i plowed them under this spring to make my new plot.

But il have to talk to some of the old timers and the neighbor to see what they did in the past.

and i already have the plots plowed under where i want to plant.

[roddyo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_oxide

Yes, an improper fire can cook the lime out. To cook the lime out require a hot, and staying fire. I think what roddyo is doing is a quicker fire that esentially just burns the old grasses and leaves at the top. If your burn actually burnt the top soil then you screwed up, but burning is a proven method in clearing, as well as in western agriculture. And even if you do burn the lime out, it will absorb carbon dioxide over time and turn into lime again.

I think you got a good understanding of what I'm talking about. No one on here has said anything that's "wrong," in this line of work it's just not feasible. If theres any money in planting food plots it's not much. Thats why I say get in and get out Fast and don't spend a lot on equipment. If you get in this business i'm guessing your average job will between 6 and 10 acres. At $100 per acre which is about the max you can charge for labor, That's $600.00 to $1,000.00 per job. Theres not going to be a lot left over for equipment.

As far as lime/fertilizer goes let them buy it in the bag and run it through your seeder. It will take forever but it works. Spraying stick with Roundup and just do a burn down. If people want you to put in a crop tell them to get roundup ready seed.

I think buying a drill to plant Turnips, Clover or Wheat is overkill, these are three of the easiest crops to get a stand. Beans and Peas are a little different. If you really want a No Till Drill to use on you own land and your looking at this food plot deal Just to make the payment, I understand. Just be very selective in your jobs, bigger food plots, good ground and easy to get to. I'm the same way with my backhoe, I run it on 2 or 3 jobs a year to make the payment. I leave it at the farm the rest of the time. It's really not working for nothing if you get a piece of equipment that you wouldn't have otherwise.

[Turbo21835]

Whitetails will eat the greens of turnips all season. For them to go after the actual root you need a good hard frost. The freeze will turn those starches into sugars. Similar to sugar beets. Chances are, if they did not touch your turnips, they had plenty of food else where. Food plots are about to become a lot more popular in Michigan as there is a baiting ban in effect for most of the state.

[roddyo]

Ok you can keep burning your lime off, its your money going up in smoke, not mine. I do agree about the P and K staying, but with todays N prices, burning it off just doesent make any sense! As for your dozer, why are we comparing with an 8400 size tractor? You just stated that we were planting 6 acres of 4 wheeler trail, may I ask were the 8400 tractor comes into play. If I were doing a 6 acre food plot, I would say somthing like a 4020 would be as big of a tractor that I would need:cool: How does that compare on ground pressure to you dozer.:D And yes a track tractor will put out less ground pressure. I do agree with your statement on overworking the soil, and losing topsoil, and getting the seed too deep, but I still say that that can be avoided, by making a pass with your drill and checking seed depth, and adjusting accordindly, and just not over working the ground.

You acted like driving my dozer over a food plot was the end on the world. I was pointing out that my dozer has less ground pressure than any thing you would use to work the food plot up. Since you have a picture of a tracked John Deere I was using it as an example. By the way that 4020 has about 4 times more compaction than my wide track D4H.:bash

I think what you don't understand is that 6 acres of food plots is not 1, six acre food plot but closer to 6, one acre food plots. If you deal with bow hunters they will be closer to 1/4 acre, about a 40 yard shot is max. That's why drills don't work good in my area, by the time you run your turn rows your almost done. You spend more time going in a circle than going straight.

As far as the N and drilling goes the land owners are A Lot more willing to spend an extra eight to ten dollars an acre on seed or fertilizer than on labor to wallow the ground around.

When it comes to gassing off that's a problem with N not lime. Burning these food plots off is a "Flash Heat" anyway. I have never measured it but I would say 150 degrees ground temp. after the fire would be close and it wouldn't last a minute. Chat drive ways will get almost that hot in places and I haven't heard of any of them gassing off lately. Down the road from me they make Quick Lime for use in the steel mill. AG lime is a by product for them. They stay open 24 hours a day 365 days a year and sell ag lime for a little over a dollar a ton just trying to get rid of it. I would say they would be happy if it would gas off.:D

[Deere9670]

You acted like driving my dozer over a food plot was the end on the world. I was pointing out that my dozer has less ground pressure than any thing you would use to work the food plot up. Since you have a picture of a tracked John Deere I was using it as an example. By the way that 4020 has about 4 times more compaction than my wide track D4H.:bash

I think what you don't understand is that 6 acres of food plots is not 1, six acre food plot but closer to 6, one acre food plots. If you deal with bow hunters they will be closer to 1/4 acre, about a 40 yard shot is max. That's why drills don't work good in my area, by the time you run your turn rows your almost done. You spend more time going in a circle than going straight.

As far as the N and drilling goes the land owners are A Lot more willing to spend an extra eight to ten dollars an acre on seed or fertilizer than on labor to wallow the ground around.

When it comes to gassing off that's a problem with N not lime. Burning these food plots off is a "Flash Heat" anyway. I have never measured it but I would say 150 degrees ground temp. after the fire would be close and it wouldn't last a minute. Chat drive ways will get almost that hot in places and I haven't heard of any of them gassing off lately. Down the road from me they make Quick Lime for use in the steel mill. AG lime is a by product for them. They stay open 24 hours a day 365 days a year and sell ag lime for a little over a dollar a ton just trying to get rid of it. I would say they would be happy if it would gas off.:D

Your all wrong, how can you sit there and say that a 4020 will make more compaction then a dozer that wieghs upwards of 13 tons. just because its a wide track doesent mean it wont make compaction:Banghead btw a 4020 wieghs like 13 thousand pounds, a hudge difference.:bash Like I said before if you think that burning your plot wont effect the lime, then keep burning them. If burning is such a good idea, then why dont we see farmers out there burning thier fields? I had a nieghbor once that had an accident burning leaves in his backyard one fall, and the fire spread into the cornstubble of the farmers field. He ended up having to pay the farmer for the lost lime and organic matter. I think it was like 100 dollars an acre too:eek:

[roddyo]

Your all wrong, how can you sit there and say that a 4020 will make more compaction then a dozer that wieghs upwards of 13 tons. just because its a wide track doesent mean it wont make compaction:Banghead btw a 4020 wieghs like 13 thousand pounds, a hudge difference.:bash Like I said before if you think that burning your plot wont effect the lime, then keep burning them. If burning is such a good idea, then why dont we see farmers out there burning thier fields? I had a nieghbor once that had an accident burning leaves in his backyard one fall, and the fire spread into the cornstubble of the farmers field. He ended up having to pay the farmer for the lost lime and organic matter. I think it was like 100 dollars an acre too:eek:

I'm sitting here saying a 4020 will make more compaction than a D4H because it's True!!!:Banghead You got a 24,000 lb. D4H spread out over almost fifty square feet compared to a 13,000 lb. 4020 spread out over around 5 square feet. :Pointhead Figure that up and tell me which has the lowest PSI? :beatsme A 20.8-38 has a flat plate area of about 470 square inches, and that is A Lot bigger tire than the 18.4-34 that come out on the 4020 wich has a Flat Plat area of a little over 200 square inches. That's around 3 square feet of contact area for the back tires. Do you run bigger tires on the front up there? :Banghead

As far as farmers burning we burn between 80,000 and 100,000 acres a year down here. I've personally burned between 30 and 40 thousand acres of row crop ground myself. It's hard to double crop without burning. We burn wheat stubble to plant wheat beans and a little rice and corn stubble to plant wheat back. On ground that isn't suitable for raising wheat most people take care of their stubble since they have all winter to let in rot.

When I worked on the Lakehead Pipeline Project up there about 10 years ago we paid $30,000.00 per acre for Right of Way plus 10 years crop damage. If you compare what we paid in relation to the actual value of the right of way I would say it's about equal to what your neighbor paid the farmer for his Lime and Organic Matter. Close to 10 times what it was worth.:D

[Steve Frazier]

Deere9670, take a breath and do a little math. Compaction is all relative to pounds per square inch to the ground. Using the numbers from your post, the 13,000 pound tractor's weight is distributed over 4 small tire contact areas, I would doubt much more than 6 square feet total. This calculates out to 2167 pounds per square foot load on the soil.

Again, using your 26,000 pound estimate for the tracked dozer, we have to figure the load per square inch, or in this case per square foot. In looking at a photo of a D4H wide track, the tracks appear to be about 8 feet in length and maybe a foot and a half wide. This gives us 24 square feet of surface area for ground contact which calculates out to 1083 pounds per square foot load on the soil, or about half that of the tractor.

What roddyo is posting is making perfect sense to me. I've been a firefighter for 30 years and have seen numerous brush fires through this time. What makes brush fires difficult to control is that they spread so rapidly, the fuel(brush) burns very quickly and on top of the soil. There are no lingering coals to further heat the soil, once the fire has passed the soil immediately begins to cool. I don't doubt that roddyo's suggestion that soil temps reach just 150 degrees. Generally one week after a brush fire, the grass has already greened up again from the existing plants. I have to believe that if the plants weren't killed from the heat, that the limestone was not effected either.

[roddyo]

Deere9670, take a breath and do a little math. Compaction is all relative to pounds per square inch to the ground. Using the numbers from your post, the 13,000 pound tractor's weight is distributed over 4 small tire contact areas, I would doubt much more than 6 square feet total. This calculates out to 2167 pounds per square foot load on the soil.

Again, using your 26,000 pound estimate for the tracked dozer, we have to figure the load per square inch, or in this case per square foot. In looking at a photo of a D4H wide track, the tracks appear to be about 8 feet in length and maybe a foot and a half wide. This gives us 24 square feet of surface area for ground contact which calculates out to 1083 pounds per square foot load on the soil, or about half that of the tractor.

What roddyo is posting is making perfect sense to me. I've been a firefighter for 30 years and have seen numerous brush fires through this time. What makes brush fires difficult to control is that they spread so rapidly, the fuel(brush) burns very quickly and on top of the soil. There are no lingering coals to further heat the soil, once the fire has passed the soil immediately begins to cool. I don't doubt that roddyo's suggestion that soil temps reach just 150 degrees. Generally one week after a brush fire, the grass has already greened up again from the existing plants. I have to believe that if the plants weren't killed from the heat, that the limestone was not effected either.

Hi Steve, Thanks for the support and also for the forum. :usa

I always try to remember that this is a world wide forum and what works in my corner of it may or may not translate to everyone else. Thats why I try to explain the context in which I work. I would like to think I come up with this on my own but I think I learned from reading Deas posts.:)

As far as the ground pressure my tracks are 5 feet wide. 30 inch tracks X 2= 60 inches That's how I come up with around 50 S.F.

I don't think these flash fires don't get hot enough to kill the germination of the seed in the ground. I think thats why they sprout so fast.

[Deere9670]

I still have to disagree steve. Ive seen what that heavy equipment can do to farm ground first hand. We have had some sewer lines ran through some of our fields, and the compaction that they have created is unreal. We had some ground that would normally yield 50 bushel beans, and after the sewer company got done tracking over it, it yielded 28 bpa. Sure what roddyo is doing is probley less intense, then this, but lemme tell ya, you wont see a dozer in my fields, no matter how long or wide the tracks are. Even with your math, I still cant agree with you guys on this theory. As for the burning steve, Im still confused, why do it if you know that you will be burning off good stuff?

[Steve Frazier]

From your email address, I surmise you are attending college. Print out these last few posts and take them to your math professor and have him explain what we are saying. Facts and math support what has been said, it's not opinion on the flotation aspect.

The whole point of the last paragraph of my post was that the "good stuff" wasn't being burned off, undesirable grasses and brush are. If the ground temps are not getting high enough to kill off the vegetation, how could it possibly destroy the lime?

[RocksnRoses]

Years ago we had a D4 and I remember at the time, reading Caterpillar's promotional material on using crawler tractors in agriculture. Their biggest selling point was the fact that tracked tractors excert much less ground pressure, because of the track area, than conventional rubber tyred tractors, therefore reducing compaction. I can understand damage being done where you have concentrated traffic, such as pipeline construction, I have seen this many times where trucks have been carting from paddocks, especially when it is wet, these tracks can sometimes be seen years later in the crops.
As for burning, farmers here still burn on a regular basis, mainly to kill snails or for weed control. I have never heard of a good burn doing any damage, it usually does more good, sometimes to the point that you can see a line in the crop where the fire went. A few years ago, there was a very major and extremely hot fire on the west coast of South Australia, where aluminium motors laying out side and water pipes and cables underground just melted. There was a lot of concern about the seed bank in the ground being destroyed, but after extensive testing and when the opening rains came, it was found that very little damage had been done at all.

Rn'R.

[Deere9670]

stalking on me eh? I dont need a college professer to tell me how to farm. Ive seen what those heavy dozers can do to ground, no matter how minimal the ground pressure is off of that dozer, I can tell you that with my 13,000 pound tractor, I can create alot less compaction then roddyo does with his dozer with the pure pysics of it. Think about it. Your in a 1 acre plot and im in there with my three point disk on my 4020. Meanwhile, roddyo is tracking around in his dozer, backing up, pulling forward,backing up, etc I with my little tractor, just keep going around, eliminating the unesscery, manuevering with a 13 ton machine. Steve, you mentioned earlier that you were a fire fighter and not a farmer, so I as a farmer will fill you in on the burning part. When you say in your previous post that,"the good stuff is not being burned off." That is far from the truth. When you burn a field, sure you eliminate all the junk like weeds, but you are left with nothing but bare dirt, and no organic matter or residue. Residue is a good thing, because it breaks down, and is used by the new plant. It has other uses as well such as preventing eroison, holding in moisture, etc. so this is why I ask, why burn it off???? And as for the lime its my word against yours, so until we get some hard facts on that, I guess we will never know if it burns or stays. I will do some research on it though.

[roddyo]

Hi Rn'R,
I love it when people from around the world share there experiences, it's what makes this forum so good.

I always thought most dozer compaction come from the blade, especially the cutting edge. Personally I use a backhoe for a compactor when I can. If I can get 1 1/2 yards in the bucket it will mash it down tighter than a dozer ever thought about. I have always wondered how much more compaction in construction came from the rubber tired machines instead of the tracked one's?

I think people have forgot that this country used to burn off pretty regular in the past. Instead of having those smaller fires more regular Now we have these raging wildfires like you see on T.V.

[Steve Frazier]

You're right Deere9670, I'm not a farmer by trade. My Dad broke the line of farmers in my family by going into engineering. I come from a long line of dairy farmers based in Central Pennsylvania, Interstate 80 runs through the center of what used to be my Great Grandfather's farm. My Great Aunt traveled all over the northeast breeding champion Holsteins. Farming is in my blood, my Dad and I subscribed to the "Farm Journal" and "Hoard's Dairymen" for years and years. Today I'm a landscaper, I know just a little bit about growing things. I've also got two years of mechanical engineering under my belt, I'm pretty well versed in math and physics.

I was by no means suggesting you have your Professor teach you how to farm, but to simply explain perhaps with graphics what myself and others here have been trying to get across as far as compaction is concerned. Our information is correct and we've tried to illustrate it in a couple different ways. My thought was perhaps with some visual aids your Professor might be able to get a light to come on.

Consider this: Just a few years ago Caterpillar introduced their line of Multi-Terrain Loaders which essentially are skid steers on tracks. They use the same frames as their skid steer counterparts. The key selling point to these machines is their flotation over the skid steers, that they can continue to work in muddy conditions where skid steers couldn't dream of going. Higher flotation equals less soil compaction due to the higher surface area of the footprint of the track over the tires.

We've also tried to explain that burning off grass and brush does not raise soil temps high enough to sterilize it. The soil might be bare to the eyes at the surface level, but I assure you the organics have not been destroyed, especially just below the surface where the roots actually do their work. By burning off the grass and brush, thatch and other accumulated debris are removed from the surface allowing new seed full contact or reducing an existing plant's need for competing for space with this debris. The debris is also transformed into ash which is absorbed much more quickly by the soil than in it's original form, which must first decompose over time.

I've got 30 years on you, I might suggest you would be well served to open your mind to new information that you come upon. Our friend Deas has nearly 30 years on me and I think he'd agree that if a day goes by where you haven't learned something new, then that day has been wasted. Believe me, we aren't trying to tell you 2 + 2 = 5, but rather explain why it equals 4.

[Deere9670]

I've got 30 years on you, I might suggest you would be well served to open your mind to new information that you come upon. Thats good for you steve, and whenever I have a question about landscaping, I will know who to ask, and I will absorb every bit of information that I can from you, but when it comes to farming and growing food plots, I may be a young gun, but its my passion and I have alot of experience in this area. You wont hear another peep out of me in this thread, because I have had enough argueing for the day. We all have different methods of getting the job done, and whatever works for you is a good method. If burning and dozing works for you, good for you!:beatsme

[bigcatpip]

:popcorn

[roddyo]

:popcorn

I really expected more comments from the Peanut Gallery:D

[roddyo]

Thats good for you steve, and whenever I have a question about landscaping, I will know who to ask.


If anyone has any questions about the correct way to farm just ask me.:D

What most people overlook is the root system of a plant. This can rival the organic matter of the part of the plant that we see. When you factor in the roots and ash we may lose less than 50% of the organic matter by burning.

If you are on the cutting edge you need to grid sample your food plots using GPS and apply your Lime/Fertilize with a varible rate buggy.:notworthy

[stumpjumper83]

You know what causes compaction... Bambi, the very animal you are creating the plot for. A 200lb. whitetail has about 1sq. foot of contact area if they are standing on all four feet. That makes for 16.67 psi, and 33.34 if they are walking with only two feet on the ground at once. If a 1200 pound cow had a 4x6" hoof, they still wouldn't equal a deer. Thats because the deer has a smaller foot compared to a cow.

The same thing aplies to heavy equipment. If sheer weight did it, there would be no need to run a roller in a fill area, if there was a d-8 doing the pushing.

I don't think compaction was the issue with your field problems. It could have added to your low yeilds, but were not the sole source. A better chance is that when they replaced the stripped topsoil, some subsoil or deep topsoil found its way to the surface which didnt have the proper ph or nutrients. The only way to can fairly blame it on compaction is if you have both soil and compaction reports both before an after.

As for dozers in in field, it wasnt too long ago that they were the main tool for pulling tillage tools. Tracks slip less and 4x4 was not ultra common so you hitch the plows or disk to a crawler and did it that way. Probably 50% of the tillage was done by track machines up until the 80's when 4x4 became a standard issue.

As for burning in farming it is and was a means of contolling weeds. Some organic farmers do it today becase they cant use roundup and other chemicals. The reason the rest of us stopped burning is becasue of liability, and because roundup is cheap.

Were are not saying your wrong for what you are doing deere, we are simply explaining why we do what we do.

[bigblueox]

i like the hay buster no-till drill

[KMB83]

9670, maybe i can get a peep out of you... I'm a farmer in illinois. why does that tractor in your picture have tracks? its a recent developement in farming (last 10years or so), tracked equipment. big deal for those who don't do deep tillage (strip or no-till) because they cant break the ground up in the fall. so the equipment companies came up with reducing ground pressure by moving to tracks. where are you at in illinois anyway and what college you going too? i'm from around springfield, went to u of i. go ask one of the ag mech prof what they think. bring an open mind.

[KMB83]

roddyo - about this fertilization topic. i'm thinking corn/soybeans because that is what i know. the Natural Resource & Conservation Service has a really handy website http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm that if you can find your location (think google earth) will give you the details of your soil. without a soil test.

now, onto burning. you wont burn up limestone. you wont drastically alter the nutrient level of your soil. the stuff on top burning does provide humus, but the plants from 10,000 years ago are broken down and bonded to the soil, same for N,P,K. Deere is right on some of the burning issue, if this is slopped ground and you burn the ground cover it will erode, thats bad. yes N can denitrify either by bacteria, leaching, or plant uptake. 50degrees is the rule of thumb for when the bacteria start to convert the N into forms that disappear. as far as am concerned you shouldn't need to fertilize, even corn, corn without nitrogen, or any other nutrient can make 50-75bu/ac in mediocre soils, your feeding animals, not trying to win the national corn growers contest.

I work at a seed corn facility, the DNR picks up "burn seed corn" that is basically poor quality/old. that is what they plant, they plant 1,000's of acres of food plots, don't get carried away spending $$ on fancy frills.

my 2 cents

[roddyo]

9670, maybe i can get a peep out of you... I'm a farmer in illinois. why does that tractor in your picture have tracks? its a recent developement in farming (last 10years or so), tracked equipment. big deal for those who don't do deep tillage (strip or no-till) because they cant break the ground up in the fall. so the equipment companies came up with reducing ground pressure by moving to tracks. where are you at in illinois anyway and what college you going too? i'm from around springfield, went to u of i. go ask one of the ag mech prof what they think. bring an open mind.

I was down in the bottoms yesterday on a friend of mine where I park my equipment when working down there. I was about half way through a field when I realized it had been burned.:D I had to laugh.:bash I will get some pictures up in a few days.:cool2

[roddyo]

roddyo - about this fertilization topic. i'm thinking corn/soybeans because that is what i know. the Natural Resource & Conservation Service has a really handy website http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm that if you can find your location (think google earth) will give you the details of your soil. without a soil test.

now, onto burning. you wont burn up limestone. you wont drastically alter the nutrient level of your soil. the stuff on top burning does provide humus, but the plants from 10,000 years ago are broken down and bonded to the soil, same for N,P,K. Deere is right on some of the burning issue, if this is slopped ground and you burn the ground cover it will erode, thats bad. yes N can denitrify either by bacteria, leaching, or plant uptake. 50degrees is the rule of thumb for when the bacteria start to convert the N into forms that disappear. as far as am concerned you shouldn't need to fertilize, even corn, corn without nitrogen, or any other nutrient can make 50-75bu/ac in mediocre soils, your feeding animals, not trying to win the national corn growers contest.

I work at a seed corn facility, the DNR picks up "burn seed corn" that is basically poor quality/old. that is what they plant, they plant 1,000's of acres of food plots, don't get carried away spending $$ on fancy frills.

my 2 cents

If you are not able to no till the idea of burning on steeper slopes is to Keep What little topsoil that's there. If you get a stand in a week you have the new plant to hold the ground together. The idea of burning, sowing on top of the ground and dragging with a good harrow is almost a fool proof way to get a stand of Wheat, Clover or Turnips. And if you get a big rain you only have 1/4 inch or so of disturbed soil VS. 4 or 5 inches if you had worked it up with a disc and tried to save all the fowlness.


You are right about trying to make 300 Bu. Corn in a food plot. I have said over and over to forget about farming in these food plots. The bigger the plant gets the tougher the stalk is. That's why I had rather have 6 inch wheat that is Tender than deer standing in 12 inch wheat trying to nibble the end of the leaves.



Funny you said that about the soil survey, I've got one for Reeves County Texas on my book case. :D My partner and I were going to buy some land down there. The first thing I done when I walked out of the ASCS Office was go next door to the Soil Conservation Office and pick one up. Top Notch Advice.:notworthy

[KMB83]

the soil survey is a pretty powerful tool. that and buying good dirt fixes a LOT of issues.

pretty amazing to me that 100+years ago folks with survey chains and soil taxonomy charts made soil maps, and laid out the ground. that was some undertaking, especially when you think that the ground wasnt cleared/settled on. and how accurate they are.

also fascinating to me that in these parts if there are trees standing on it, even if it looks flat and uniform, there is a reason. you clear those trees off and it is either: too low (i live in a river bottom), or the ground is sandy enough that you cant grow anything.

its all good

[Bu1cko]

What is the reasoning for plowing in the fall and not plowing in the spring or if i want to plant cool season stuff in August

[Turbo21835]

Plowing in fall is done around here for a primary reason. It helps catch water, and get it into the subsoil region. Also, being most of the farm land around here is on a heavy clay soil, they plow in the fall. The freeze thaw cycle we experience over the winter helps break those big clumps of soil into fine soil. This means less tillage passes in the spring to make a good seed bed. Combined with rolling your organic materials into the soil, allowing them to decompose, and add to your topsoil

[iron kid]

food plots should be in a X patern so the buck has to check four corner for a hot doe. keeps him on your land longer wich gives u a better chance at him just a thought

[souliog]

You can convert sandy soils into good soil over time. Grow buckwheat and tilling in after it reaches 12" and repeat. A manure spreader will speed up the process too. Don't forget to get your Ph over 6.0!

[roddyo]

You can convert sandy soils into good soil over time. Grow buckwheat and tilling in after it reaches 12" and repeat. A manure spreader will speed up the process too. Don't forget to get your Ph over 6.0!


Welcome to the Forum souliog!!!!

If you let the Buckwheat Mature it will also grind up for a nice bread.:)

Or so I'm Told.

[souliog]

I've gotten hooked on clearing more land for food plots and that is how I found this site. Great knowledge so far.

[stumpjumper83]

Souliog, how are you clearing the land?

[souliog]

stumpjumper-right now I do it the hard way. I have no equipment besides a quad. I am looking at buying small track loader. I'm very close to buying a Case 350 that needs a little tlc for $3000. Any suggestions??

[stumpjumper83]

well soul, we have simular plans. I purchased a deere 450c for simular purposes. Does the one your looking at have a 4n1, thats one thing i wish i had.

[souliog]

no, but you can find a used Drott 4 in 1 bucket for a good price. I saw one for sale for $500 with cylinders and plumbing.http://www.pdmechanical.com/details.asp?key=15691

[Dane]

at zep farms we just disc and drag until late july, then broadcast seed by hand. we are planting turips, rutabagies, rape, sunflowers, corn, soy beans. our turips and rutabagies are doing so well we have more then the deer can eat, so we are marketing to local restruants and farmers markets. it is surprizing how many people around here have never herd of turnips, or how to cook them.

[roddyo]

Here's some food plot pics from one of my customers hunting ground.

This place is part of my yearly food plot circuit.:D

Both of these deer was killed from the same stand on opening morning. The one in the Picture BTW.

These are pretty good Randolph County Hill deer. The one on the left is a normal "good" deer. The one on the right is pretty wide for this area. Closer to the row crop ground is where the monsters are around here. The area where these deer were killed is just pretty well "holding the world together".

[UPPLOTTER]

Hey guys...You seem to be the folks I was looking for!
Roddyo, nice work on the plots. I'm brand new here and searching advice, I've been putting in plots for 8 years, mostly for myself but of late for a few customers. I'm looking to grow that business. I had the previlage of using a friends tractor and implements, Skidsteer and a few other pieces of equipment. I own some ATV stuff: disc, Lime Spreader, 60 gallon trailer sprayer, A culti-packer and drag...it gets me by for everything except site clearing and turning unbroken soil. What peice of equipment should I be considering, you guys know what it actually take to break ground. That's what I'm facing alot of the time...I live the the U.P. of Michigan and it's Rocky, and heavily forested. What do you think?
Thanks in advance...

J

[Dane]

Hey UPPLOTER, What part of the UP are you in? Are you looking to clear virgin land? if so i would advise against cutting the trees down. get a dozer in and push the trees over, that is the best way to get rid of the stumps. then you can cut the root balls off the trees and do what you will with the rest. the after you get the stumps out then i would hit the area with a breaking plow, and then disc the hell out of it.

[roddyo]

Hey guys...You seem to be the folks I was looking for!
Roddyo, nice work on the plots. I'm brand new here and searching advice, I've been putting in plots for 8 years, mostly for myself but of late for a few customers. I'm looking to grow that business. I had the previlage of using a friends tractor and implements, Skidsteer and a few other pieces of equipment. I own some ATV stuff: disc, Lime Spreader, 60 gallon trailer sprayer, A culti-packer and drag...it gets me by for everything except site clearing and turning unbroken soil. What peice of equipment should I be considering, you guys know what it actually take to break ground. That's what I'm facing alot of the time...I live the the U.P. of Michigan and it's Rocky, and heavily forested. What do you think?
Thanks in advance...

J

How big are the trees you need to remove?

Also, can you scratch the ground with a disc? If you can you would be better off with a disc than a chisel or breaking plow. Around here a plow will pull up more rocks than you will ever cover up.

Around here we just try to get enough loose dirt to get a stand BTW.

[farmerblake255]

I still have to disagree steve. Ive seen what that heavy equipment can do to farm ground first hand. We have had some sewer lines ran through some of our fields, and the compaction that they have created is unreal. We had some ground that would normally yield 50 bushel beans, and after the sewer company got done tracking over it, it yielded 28 bpa. Sure what roddyo is doing is probley less intense, then this, but lemme tell ya, you wont see a dozer in my fields, no matter how long or wide the tracks are. Even with your math, I still cant agree with you guys on this theory. As for the burning steve, Im still confused, why do it if you know that you will be burning off good stuff?

Because if a rice feild is'nt rutted up down here where me and roddyo lives your better off to burn the thing off and no - till with a drill than work it up and spend the time trying to smooth it out ready to plant and you'll never notice it. we make 180 - 210 b/ac rice down here. When it gets time to rotate to soybeans work it up and put 2 ton of chicke litter out there and make perfectly good beans.....we have had under ground irrigation lines ran through our farm also and right down the pipeline the beans will be stomach high and green as a gord and then down the edge of it they will be shin high.....

[farmerblake255]

If anyone has any questions about the correct way to farm just ask me.:D

What most people overlook is the root system of a plant. This can rival the organic matter of the part of the plant that we see. When you factor in the roots and ash we may lose less than 50% of the organic matter by burning.

If you are on the cutting edge you need to grid sample your food plots using GPS and apply your Lime/Fertilize with a varible rate buggy.:notworthy
Roddyo we need to get Baxley involved in all this......lol.......who would've thought burnin of an acre plot and sowin some seeds out to have a place to hunt could run so deep......some people just don't understand how much we know what were doin huh......anyone need a grid sampled variable rate application on your deer plot call me ....ill hitch up and head that way....

[roddyo]

Roddyo we need to get Baxley involved in all this......lol.......who would've thought burnin of an acre plot and sowin some seeds out to have a place to hunt could run so deep......some people just don't understand how much we know what were doin huh......anyone need a grid sampled variable rate application on your deer plot call me ....ill hitch up and head that way....

At the time this was somewhat of a heated debate.:D

There would be a lot less crop grown down here if we couldn't farm with a match every now and then IMO.

BTW, I always liked Farming with a Match:drinkup

[Dane]

At the time this was somewhat of a heated debate.:D

There would be a lot less crop grown down here if we couldn't farm with a match every now and then IMO.

BTW, I always liked Farming with a Match:drinkup


I also believe in burning off a field, it is a good way to "put back". i wont profess to knowing everything but i have learned some things. around here in northern wi we used to burn alot, but it seems to be a lost art. not many small farmers left, and alot of people who try to burn make bug mistakes, and have collateral damage. i rember back in the day we all would get together to burn fields, there was such a small window in the spring (about 2 weeks) to burn what you could.

i still burn off our fields (about 40 acers hay, and 40 acers in rotated deer crops) in the spring, but since times have changed and the window to burn is much smaller i am lucky to find a day to do it.

i take all the safty procedures right down to 600 gallons of water on the truck.

but last spring it was to wet i did not get a good burn, i was haveing problems with burning bans and rain. i hope for better luck next spring.


Also my buddy is a drywall contractor, and he save up his shhet rock scraps and disc them into the field, it seem to be a good sorce for cheep lime. the deer crops seem to enjoy it.

[UPPLOTTER]

Yes, most of what we do is virgin land; with trees varying from saplings to mature oak/pines...And this area (Marquette, MI) is VERY rocky. If I look at a larger tractor (say 50hp) would I be able to push over 5" diameter trees without wrecking the loader bucket/Hydraulics? Lot’s of the work is along logging roads or skidder trails, we then trim them back with a saw for optimal sunlight. I'd like to disc everything, I hate picking rocks! Is there a certain piece of equipment that would act as a “do all” for this situation? Don't forget I' need to disc, spread lime, grade, and run a no till-drill either way I go, and I'd hire a dozer if I want to do big stuff, but I dont' find that too much.

Thanks!

[UPPLOTTER]

Hey UPPLOTER, What part of the UP are you in? Are you looking to clear virgin land? if so i would advise against cutting the trees down. get a dozer in and push the trees over, that is the best way to get rid of the stumps. then you can cut the root balls off the trees and do what you will with the rest. the after you get the stumps out then i would hit the area with a breaking plow, and then disc the hell out of it.

Due East of you...Marquette.

[Dane]

Yes, most of what we do is virgin land; with trees varying from saplings to mature oak/pines...And this area (Marquette, MI) is VERY rocky. If I look at a larger tractor (say 50hp) would I be able to push over 5" diameter trees without wrecking the loader bucket/Hydraulics? Lot’s of the work is along logging roads or skidder trails, we then trim them back with a saw for optimal sunlight. I'd like to disc everything, I hate picking rocks! Is there a certain piece of equipment that would act as a “do all” for this situation? Don't forget I' need to disc, spread lime, grade, and run a no till-drill either way I go, and I'd hire a dozer if I want to do big stuff, but I dont' find that too much.

Thanks!

I would advise agaist just using a tractor, i ran an 85hp 4X4 with loader for a few years, and there is no way i would put that machine through that kind of hell. it might be able to do it a few times but if you are going to invest that kind of money i dont think you want to beat your equipment.

i installed satelite in your area for a few years and have a bit of an idea of what your dealing with, i saw a guy in watersmeet pushing popple trees of about 10in with a very large skid steer but that machines loader is built a lot tougher, and he was able to dig a bit before he pushed.

i dont think your are going to find just one wounder machine to do it all. depending on the size of the area you are working, and if you have some Fab skills, a large skid steer might be the closest your going to get. you could fab up alot of impelments depending on your needs, however your would not want to pull a disc with a skid steer.

if your working larger areas a center articulated tractor might be the trick, i think there might be one at HOOD equipment they might part with cheep, i think they were going to fab up a skidder out of it on a custom contract that fell through, you could have them equip it with a dozer/ skidder style blade.

[UPPLOTTER]

I would advise agaist just using a tractor, i ran an 85hp 4X4 with loader for a few years, and there is no way i would put that machine through that kind of hell. it might be able to do it a few times but if you are going to invest that kind of money i dont think you want to beat your equipment.

i installed satelite in your area for a few years and have a bit of an idea of what your dealing with, i saw a guy in watersmeet pushing popple trees of about 10in with a very large skid steer but that machines loader is built a lot tougher, and he was able to dig a bit before he pushed.

i dont think your are going to find just one wounder machine to do it all. depending on the size of the area you are working, and if you have some Fab skills, a large skid steer might be the closest your going to get. you could fab up alot of impelments depending on your needs, however your would not want to pull a disc with a skid steer.

if your working larger areas a center articulated tractor might be the trick, i think there might be one at HOOD equipment they might part with cheep, i think they were going to fab up a skidder out of it on a custom contract that fell through, you could have them equip it with a dozer/ skidder style blade.

Dane...Thanks, I've experienced the same. Nothing has proven itself to be the Wonder Drug. The Skidsteers have so many attachement these days I think your on to something. I need to focus on what I'm going to take on for jobs within the "norm", then figure something out for the projects that would require more. Which are not that much as I've found...usualy a logger is coming in before, or has recently been on site. Maybe working a relationship up with the loggers in the area would benefit me. It seems money from logging is funding most of my work. Do you have any experience with lime buggy's or know someone here that does? Lime is king here...every job I've done has required it. Ph's usually in the 5's. Thanks!

[Dane]

Do you have any experience with lime buggy's or know someone here that does? Lime is king here...every job I've done has required it. Ph's usually in the 5's. Thanks!

I have not had the need to buy lime, i have not had the need to get that technical, and have not did any ph samples on our plots. ( i am not for hire right now) I have spred cow manure, as a favor to local farmers. I spred drywall scraps as i get them ( dont get enough to wory about burning out 80 acers) and i have a friend who has a septic service who might spred some poo per dnr regs. some times i have to haul water as it has been dry around hear.

i do burn the fields in spring if i get a chance. and between our own personal consumption and the deers consumption it is not possable to harvest all 5 acers of turnips and rutabagges so the are alowed to freeze and rot, and are disced in the next spring. the crops are rotated each year.

from what i do know about lime is i see it get droped off in fields by dump trucks and farmers use what ever the got to spreed it, i have even seen them use manure spredders. i think you can buy a spredding cart full from ashland ag center, they pull it out with a truck and you hook it up to a tractor and spred. not sure though if sell lime in those carts or just other fertelizers/ chems. the cart is rented but convenient. i would call them and find out more for you but i do not have the time i am on my way to do some loggin right now, but here is there phone number if you wish to call them...(715) 682-2688

oh by the way we farm all that land with an old allis chalmer tractor a disc and a drag. we seed with a hand broadcaster. in the srping we pull wagons behind a forn 9n and a honda 4x4 fourwheeler picking rocks, it takes about 2 people 2 days to go over the whole thing. it is just a hobby.

[Dane]

Do you have any experience with lime buggy's or know someone here that does? Lime is king here...every job I've done has required it. Ph's usually in the 5's. Thanks!

I wonder... you have to disc the lime in right?

so what if insteed of putting weight on your disc in you fabed a hopper and a hyd powered spredder on your disc and take care of it all at the asme time.

i also wonder if that would work for seeding, rase the disc so it barly scrapes, and set the payout rate and spin speed acordinly.

Just a thought

[UPPLOTTER]

[QUOTE=Dane;205669]I wonder... you have to disc the lime in right?

I'll certain give them a call in Ashland. You're the first person I heard that picked rocks for a hobby! I know a thing of two about lime, if you not discing it in...1000lbs. per acre, but you can go 2-3 tons/ac if you disc it in down to 8". For seeding, I use an ATV mounted spreader and I also cultipack with the ATV too. Thanks again!

[UPPLOTTER]

I wonder... you have to disc the lime in right?

so what if insteed of putting weight on your disc in you fabed a hopper and a hyd powered spredder on your disc and take care of it all at the asme time.

i also wonder if that would work for seeding, rase the disc so it barly scrapes, and set the payout rate and spin speed acordinly.

Just a thought

Dane, a before and after of a nice opening we worked on this summer.

[Dane]

UPPLOTER nice, here is a link to a google map of there area i am working with, http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
112587902225609550850.00047c4acc5eb10792c25

and a link of some pictures, i dont hae any of just the plots right now http://s799.photobucket.com/albums/yy274/danefi2/

[roddyo]

Dane...Thanks, I've experienced the same. Nothing has proven itself to be the Wonder Drug. The Skidsteers have so many attachement these days I think your on to something. I need to focus on what I'm going to take on for jobs within the "norm", then figure something out for the projects that would require more. Which are not that much as I've found...usualy a logger is coming in before, or has recently been on site. Maybe working a relationship up with the loggers in the area would benefit me. It seems money from logging is funding most of my work. Do you have any experience with lime buggy's or know someone here that does? Lime is king here...every job I've done has required it. Ph's usually in the 5's. Thanks!

Here a home made shear that we used to use a little. The good thing was it pulled almost everything by the roots, very little shearing. If your not carefull you could tear the frontend loader off of a tractor pretty quick though.

If you have or need a skid steer this could be a something to think about.:beatsme

[Dane]

Hmm looks like some sharpened grader blades welded onto a fork frame. I cant imange that this form of pasive shear do much shearing like you were saying, but i can see how it could get a great grip on a tree and rip it right out of the ground.

I think something like this would work a little better though, and it dont look hard to make. http://www.everythingattachments.com/Construction-Attachments-Stump-Grapple-Bucket-p/cal-grapple%20wickstumpsxd.htm

This one looks easyer to make http://www.everythingattachments.com/Skid-Steer-Tree-Spade-s/3008.htm

[bill allen]

Dane, a before and after of a nice opening we worked on this summer.

That sure looks like pretty country.

[bill allen]

My above post didn't upload the pics. I guess I still have some learning to do on how to use this forum.:beatsme