Transmission Question

[Komar]

OK, Call me dumb, but what the heck is an 8LL transmission?
Thanks

[Cat420]

I believe that refers to a transmission that's 8 speed with low range and a super low range that locks the differential. I'm not sure if it is a specific brand or not. Keep in mind that I could be wrong about all of that, but that's my thoughts.

[Nac]

8LL is a 10 speed transmision. Low low, Low,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, & 2 speed in reverse.

[Komar]

Thank you :drinkup

[9420pullpan]

i have been told that that is the transmission for a triaxle. eaton-fuller makes that transmission. the LL also means deep reduction.......

[John Banks]

it is an Eaton-Fuller. Great trans, I have the 8LL in my Freightliner.

[cat320]

Now I have heard that the 8LL is a little harder to drive than your basic 5/2.Is that true?

[9420pullpan]

i have seen several people turn the jake on when shifting a 8LL. this allows the jake to be applied inbetween shifts to slow engine-transmission to be able to shift faster. i quess you gotta be pretty good to do it.

[DKinWA]

I think the 8LL is similar to the 9 speed fuller with the addition of the Low Low (deep reduction) hole. I can't imagine it's any more difficult to shift than the 9 speed and it's about as easy as it gets.

[Steve Frazier]

I find a Road Ranger much easier to shift than a 5 x 2!!

[RonG]

i have seen several people turn the jake on when shifting a 8LL. this allows the jake to be applied inbetween shifts to slow engine-transmission to be able to shift faster. i quess you gotta be pretty good to do it.

That is an old trick that drivers used in the past but for the last several years I have noticed that some trucks,Mack in particular program their engine brake to "time out"when you shift and that trick will not work any more.If you are able to shift without the clutch it will still work but you cannot always do that.So,if you use the clutch it has a delay which is good for the driveline but Mack has produced some transmissions in the last few years that are the most miserable shifting transmissions I ever ran across in 40+ years in the business and you need all the help you can get to change gears in a timely fashion so a lazy engine brake makes shifting a real chore on some of their trucks.I am sure the Mack transmission is as robust as one would expect from Mack but even though they have offered shift kits to improve them they are still very unfriendly to drive.
I cannot remember the model numbers but one of the critters is their 18 speed single stick transmissions with a splitter and range switch on the stick.
I went to the Mack website once to read about that transmission and they told about how they had improved it so you can "Hire new drivers and keep the ones you have".That was very candid of Mack and applaud them for their honesty but that particular text did not stay for long,I only saw it one time.
I drove the old 5x4 quadruplex Macks for many years so I know what to expect,if you greased the shift rails on that transmission it was one of the smoothest trannys around to shift. Ron

[Steve Frazier]

The jake is especially handy when starting out on a hill with a load, it let's you grab a gear you wouldn't otherwise be able too.

I drove a number of DM series Macks with various trannies, I think one might have been the one you describe Bob. It had a multitude of gears and the shifter had a rotary air valve at the top with three positions, it seems like you could never take your hand from the shifter, there was always something to do there. This was in the early eighties though, maybe something different?

I got out of the business just as the CH series was being introduced, I've always wanted to drive one. The Macks I drove were about indestructable but the only thing I didn't like was the small cab, I hardly had room to store my water jug with me!! The CH has gobs of room, I've sat in one but have yet to drive them.

[kamerad47]

the old jake brakes would cut out when you push in the clutch or turn it off But the new ones cut out at a low rpm you can not stall them no more!!! If your useing the clutch to drive your no driver!! shift wil the rpm's!

[RonG]

Steve,the old DM's had a quite a few different transmissions in their production run.......I happened to get a brand new DM800 in 1968 with a 12 cy mixer on it but that was the last truck we bought with the quadruplex transmission as the Maxidyne was introduced the same year and that started the trend toward the high torque rise engines that we have today.
The maxidyne in the DM shipped with three different transmissions that I am aware of,all having two sticks.One was a 5 speed with the low hole in the 2nd stick which was the first one out and my favorite.The next issue had the highest gear in the second stick which we had in our DM600's pulling the 32' triaxle Freuhauf aluminum dump trailers.The last tranny was a 5 speed with low range,direct and reverse in the second stick which I did not particularly care for.The ability to back up in 5 different speeds was okay other than that there was little to be said for it.Everything else about it was clumsy,you needed to put the compound tranny in neutral and the main in third gear to dump because the PTO would not work with the main in neutral,if you backed into a soft spot and started sinking you can often drive back out again if you can "catch it on the rebound" by shifting into forward again real quick before you sink out of site but this tranny could not do that because you were two gears lower when you shifted from direct to reverse and that killed any momentum you may have had and you were stuck.

The last company I worked for with a fleet of Macks had an '87 RD tractor with a 300 in it with that Roadranger like 9 speed with a splitter on it that I used to pull the lowbed and dumptrailer and it was not too bad to shift.
One of our dumptrucks was an old DM U600 with the reverse in the second stick and the other one was a mid 90's RD600 with that miserable shifting 18 speed that I wrote about in the last message.The newest truck also had A/C but I always chose the old U600 to drive if I had a choice because I disliked that newer one so much.I always said that the only thing Mack about that truck was the name,it did not resemble the old Macks I had grown to love and respect over the years.
I finally left that company because it seemed like I was always driving something and about the only time I got to run the equipment I was hired to run was when they got paving jobs or one of those jobs that could be finished in one day so I would move the 320 Cat to the jobsite on the lowbed,complete the job and bring it home again the same day.
That newest dumptruck with the miserable transmission just begged for abuse because as you observed,when starting from a dead stop on a grade it is nice to have the engine brake to help you with your shifting and to have it time out when you need it most was frustrating.Even depending on the clutch brake was too slow so your choice was to creep along until you could shift like a gentleman or to shift without the clutch if you could manage it to get out of the way of traffic and the result was not always as smooth as one would like.
I am not fond of shifting "without the clutch" and do not subscribe to that mentality but I found with this particular Mack that you were unlikely to make the shift the first time anyway so if your success rate would improve by taking advantage of the engine brake then go for it.
Even while driving the Roadrangers most of us skip a gear while upshifting empty at least on the lower ranges and the Jake is great for that.I sure hope Mack has done their homework because I would like to hope that I could find joy in the next one I get into. :) Ron