Grease Compatibility Chart

[Johnsoils]

Folks,

Attached is a copy of the "Grease Compatibility" chart that I have. I had to change the format and lost some resolution. If you want a better copy, let me know and I can email it directly to you.

Thanks,

John

[salesrep]

This chart is wrong.

[Lashlander]

This chart is wrong.

You being a salesman ought to know what a crock this post is! Why would you make this statement and walk away? Is this your opinion or a fact? What is wrong about it? Or do you think we will all learn better if we try to figure it out ourselves?

[salesrep]

Excuse me....... I happened over here and noticed that this chart is incorrect.
Here is a correct one.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/greasechart.htm

[AtlasRob]

:beatsme I think I must be missing something here, or maybe I am looking for something that isnt there.
Why would you change grease ? cost, supplier, !
Do any of you NON oil specialists know what sort of grease you use ?

I use 2 types of grease and have only added the 2nd choice since I invested in a breaker. What I refer to as general grease LP-2 and a Multi purpose Calcium Sulphonate ( dont worry, I got the paperwork out to check ) which was recommended to me by the guys where the breaker came from.

And I cant see where either fit on that chart.

[salesrep]

About 90% otc sales are lithium or lithium complex. A guy would switch for obvious reasons. Machine life and /or cost. Most other bases are used in industry.

[AtlasRob]

About 90% otc sales are lithium or lithium complex. A guy would switch for obvious reasons. Machine life and /or cost. Most other bases are used in industry.

Sorry that went right over my head :)

90% otc ?

A guy would switch for obvious reasons ? From what to what ?

Sorry not obvious to me. Would you like to elaborate?

And no I am not on a wind up. Please educate me.
Be tomorrow by the time you get a response as its bed time here. :drinkup

[salesrep]

otc over the counter.
Grease like many other products comes in a variety of compounds and quality.
You want it to last and lubricate properly. Contaminents, moisture, machinery usage etc. all come into play. Certain greases will perform better in different applications and vice versa. Schaeffers for instance manufactures over 30 different greases in 4-5 different nlgi grades, many are cross compatable with others, some are not. Grease is underated. All grease is not the same. Lot of variables. A lot of the grease out there is "hot dog" or throw what the refiner can't dispose of in the grease. Base oil, additives, and thickener comprise greases.

[Johnsoils]

SalesRep - I'll forward this to our technical department and see what they have to say. I've never had anyone say it was incorrect. We'll see what they say. Thanks

[AtlasRob]

otc over the counter.
Grease like many other products comes in a variety of compounds and quality.
You want it to last and lubricate properly. Contaminents, moisture, machinery usage etc. all come into play. Certain greases will perform better in different applications and vice versa. Schaeffers for instance manufactures over 30 different greases in 4-5 different nlgi grades, many are cross compatable with others, some are not. Grease is underated. All grease is not the same. Lot of variables. A lot of the grease out there is "hot dog" or throw what the refiner can't dispose of in the grease. Base oil, additives, and thickener comprise greases.

Mmmm, thanks, I think :). I feel like I just had a conversation with a rep :D

What I really hoped you were going to say was ***** is ideal for xxxxxx but if you are doing ****** I would recommend ( Z ) because ........

But not to worry I'll keep using the LP-2 for machine lub and tother one for the breaker. :drinkup

[Iron Horse]

BPW , the maker of semi trailer axles has just come up with a new grease that they claim has a service life of 500,000 klm's . They say that because their brakes do'nt need servicing for that many kilometres bearings may fail because no one would check them . It's called Eco L1 , it's light Blue in colour and it comes in 20 lt drum or cartridge . I'm going to use it in my rotor bearings on my flail mowers that i have trouble with . If it goes good i'll use it in everything .

[Johnsoils]

salesrep - I'm finding that the AMSOIL chart is accurate. Can you provide us with a chart from your supplier Schaeffers? I know you guys sell oil, and if you sell grease your company should have it's own compatiblitily chart. I'm finding conflicting info. on other sights with the chart you referenced. I just want to clear up the confusion, so other Heavy Equipment Forum members aren't confused. By my findings the AMSOIL chart is accurate, but does not agree with your BobTheOilGuy's chart. I'm working on securing a chart from Exxon/Mobil, Phillips, Shell and anyone else that will give me access to one. Thanks, John

[salesrep]

John. :drinkup:
Amsoil and Schaeffers will just have to agree to disagree. The chart from bobistheoilguy is the Schaeffers chart. It was not my intention to call you or Amsoil out when I saw the chart,as it was different from ours, but to educate the members. Upon further research, there are similar charts to the one you posted, ours is obviously different.:beerchug We have been blending greases for over 160 years and have produced our aluminum complex grease for several decades and they have been used with no compatibilty issues according to our charts and based on extensive research from the breadth of our industrial customer base.
NO, I am not trying to sell any of ya'll our greases.

Members just be aware that the polyurea,calcium,lithium,betone,aluminum based grease thickeners have different properties and if you switch from one to the other get expert advice.

[MKTEF]

Maybee you two salesrep could post some info here about the different grades of grease, and the pro/con of the different additives/thickeners?:)

Not to make a add for the products, but to learn the members here just a bit about grease?
I bet many here would appreciate such a info.:cool2

AtlasRob why don't you use EP 2 instead? Isn't Atlas/Terex demanding EP for their machine?(EP= Extreme pressure)
Most of our equipment has a demand for EP-2, so we are using it all over.(exept for the high speed rolerbearings)

[salesrep]

Tons of info here.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/GREASE/index.htm

[AtlasRob]

Maybee you two salesrep could post some info here about the different grades of grease, and the pro/con of the different additives/thickeners?:)

Not to make a add for the products, but to learn the members here just a bit about grease?
I bet many here would appreciate such a info.:cool2

AtlasRob why don't you use EP 2 instead? Isn't Atlas/Terex demanding EP for their machine?(EP= Extreme pressure)
Most of our equipment has a demand for EP-2, so we are using it all over.(exept for the high speed rolerbearings)


:Banghead Definetly getting old, dont know where the *ell I got LP-2 from, it is indeed EP-2 Texaco Multifax I am using. Thanks MKTEF for picking up on that :drinkup though I suspect I will be changing over to the 2 nd choice mentioned ( no I cant spell it again :D ) once I have used up the present stock. I have used it on my oscillating bucket centre pin and it definetly hangs around longer.

[mouse]

trivia indeed but i find your chart curious salesrep.

for example reading one way it says clay to lithium complex is yellow but the other way is red.

and it aint got any scale to suggest which way you are moving...

any feedback ironhorse :D

[salesrep]

Nice catch mouse. This chart was posted several years ago and was not proof read. Clay ( bentone) is incompatable with lithium bases. Sorry for the confusion.

[Johnsoils]

Sorry I've been gone for a while, had email problems, then password issues. I'll see what I can get scanned in and attached on the greases. I have some good training hand-outs that I might be able to get posted. They answer a lot of the things your referencing.

[qball]

i find astroglide works for and in everything.***

[Johnsoils]

OK, MKTEF requested some information on grease types and thickners. Here's some information that I received in July at the AMSOIL University. AMSOIL provides dealers with training and written information that the dealers can use and pass on to folks to better educate them about lubricants and filtration. I have removed any reference to the AMSOIL products so that this information is informative, not advertising. That's what this forum is about is right, sharing information?

According to The Practical Handbook of Lubrication, grease is a lubricant composed of a fluid lubricant thickened with a material that contributes a degree of plasticity. With their high retentive properties, greases are used in applications where a continuous supply of fresh lubricant is not provided, and/or where an oil would not be retained. Many bearings not supplied by circulating or bath systems are lubricated with grease.
The three main components of any grease are: 1.) The base oil 2.) An additive package 3.) A thickener.

A simple way to understand how grease is made is by relating it to gravy. In making gravy, we start with the warm juices from the bottom of the roasting pan. Lets think of the juices as our base oil and any small meat pieces as additives. To this, flour is mixed in. The more flour added, the thicker the gravy becomes. One thing that is noted when the gravy cools, is that a small amount of the juice separates out. The same holds true for lubricating grease.

Soap Based Organic Thickeners - Soap thickeners can be enhanced by adding a complex agent, which converts the soap thickener to a soap salt complex thickener. These thickeners and greases are called complexes. When a grease is considered complex, it takes on enhanced performance attributes and include higher dropping points, better water-resistance and in some cases, improved low temperature performance.

Organic Non-Soap Based Thickeners- Polyureas are the most widely used non-soap organic thickener. Polyurea greases are characterized by good water resistance and good thermal stability. Because of their durability, polyurea greases are frequently used in sealed-for-life bearings which are filled during assembly, permanently sealed and operated without relubrication for the normal life for the bearing. They are also often found in electric motor bearings. Experience has shown that these greases have average mechanical stability and are not compatible with most other greases. These greases tend to be more costly than conventional soap-based greases because they require more sophisticated processing and their raw materials are more expensive. The special characteristics of greases based on inorganic thickeners – primarily clays and silica –
have made them useful in specific, demanding applications.

Clays (Bentone) are the most common inorganic thickening agents. Clay-based greases are functional over extremely wide temperature ranges because they lack melting points and resist other phase transformations. In general, clay based greases are only compatible with themselves.

Silica is a natural occurring substance commonly in the form of sand. However, a very fine form of silica thickens many fluids to form high melting point greases. Silica greases are inherently sensitive to water. These greases have a high tolerance for radiation and are often used for lubricating rolling element bearings in nuclear power plants.

The chart I posted in this forum is meant only to serve as a guideline for determining compatibility. For the purposes of changing products in the field, the compatibility of greases in question should be determined by testing.

NLGI definition of incompatibility: Two lubrication greases show incompatibility when a mixture of the products show physical properties or service performance which are markedly inferior to those of either of the greases before mixing. Fluid separation is the first sign of incompatibility. When ever in doubt regarding compatibility, always remove all traces of the old grease before applying new.

Like engine oils, grease additives are used to impart new or differing characteristics of a particular product. Oxidation inhibitors for example, are used mainly to improve the life expectancy of a lubricant at elevated temperatures. Their use reduces thickening of the oil and minimizes the formation of sludge and other deposits. Typical oxidation inhibitors are zinc dithiophosphates, hindered phenols, aromatic amines and sulfurized phenols.
Dyes are typically added mainly for identification purposes and to give a uniform appearance to a particular product. While certainly not a fool-proof method, dyes can aid in the differentiation between products, thus helping to avoid compatibility issues.

Anti-wear and extreme pressure additives are used to provide wear protection when the oil film alone is not capable of preventing contact between components. These additives work by providing a sacrificial wear surface or by changing the surface metallurgy of the components. Anti-wear additives or their reaction products form thin, tenacious films on loaded parts to prevent metal-to-metal contact. They assist in the reduction of friction, wear, scuffing and scoring under boundary lubrication conditions. Typical anti-wear additives are zinc dithiophosphate and polar molecules such as fatty oils, acids and esters. Extreme pressure additives are also commonly referred to as EP additives. Like anti-wear additives, they or their reaction products also form thin, tenacious films but on heavily loaded or shock loaded components. They may be persent in the form of solid additives such as molybdenum.

Greases are graded by their National Lubricating Grease Institute (NLGI) Consistency number – as indicated by the chart above. This system is designed to grade a particular grease according to its consistency…firmness or softness based upon worked penetration. The most commonly used consistency number is NLGI 2. Softer grades, such as 0 & 1, are often used for increased pumpability and low temperature application. Higher consistency numbers are used in highspeed bearings, worn parts or where leaks and sealing are particular concerns.

Greases can also be classified by a system that, again, has been developed by the NLGI. First used in 1991, this classification system relates to automotive applications (chassis & wheel bearings); but is widely recognized throughout the industry. The highest classifications that can be achieved are NLGI GC/LB, which carry the following requirements:
1) Penetration (consistency) 220-340 (#1 or #2 grease)
2) Dropping Point 428 F. Minimum
3) High Temperature bearing life is 80 hrs minimum
4) Water washout 15% max
5) Rust & Corrosion Pass
6) Oil Separation 6% max
7) Leakage 10 grams max
8) 4 Ball Wear .6 mm max
9) Fretting Wear 10 mg max
10) 4 Ball EP 200 kg min. LWI 30 min.
11) Low Temp Torque 15.5 n.m max

I hope this helps posting helps to answer some of your questions about greases, thickeners and compatibility. If there is anything else that I can assist you with, let me know and I'll get it posted or emailed to you. Thanks for the questions.

[Johnsoils]

Yes, you are correct in the fact that most of the lube points on heavy equipment that are subjected to low speeds are high loads, shock loads, or impact loads. These operating conditions call for an EP (Extreme Pressure) grease. A good choice for these applications would be a EP grease that is moly fortified. The moly will act as a cushion between the metal parts like the pins and bushings on a loader bucket. Moly fortified grease cost more, but are worth it in the long haul in these applications.

An NLGI #2 is the most common grade of grease used today for most appliacation. For cold weather or remote greasing units you may need to switch to a NLGI #1 which will flow easier.

[AtlasRob]

Thanks Johnsoils :yup :thumbsup thats the sort of info that I can relate to, I love gravy :D

[IH270A]

AGREED ......... good info , thanks

[Johnsoils]

Your welcome! I have a lot of good information, tech training materials and articles, but the forums limit the attachment file sizes. Most of my literature is in an Adobe Acrobat format.

If there is anything related to oil, filters, greases, oil testing or any other lubrication related thing, please feel free to email or contact me and I'll gladly see what I have in my files and will email or mail it out to you.