Fecon FTX90L engine problems

[Willis Bushogin]

I always tell people to do their homework, before doing anything. About 7 months ago I bought a 2005 Fecon FTX90L with 350 hrs and about 150 hrs on a new engine. It has the Duetz 4 cylinder oil cooled engine, the reason, as I was told, the engine was replaced, was because the machine did not have a aux coolong package. It was added at the same time as the engine. I was told at time of purchase that the engine had warranty until Aug 08. BADDDDD experience with dealership since day after I paid for the machine. I wont go into that story, another topic
When doing my homework, I discovered that the Duetz engines gave problems, without the extra cooling package, so with the other pluses and a warranty on the engine, I decided to buy this unit. I now have 750 hrs and I just got finished with a 100 acre tract and was using it at the house for the grandkids dirt bike trail, when the engine started losing power, black smoking and I cut it off. Checked everything, looked OK, tried to start again and no starting. Called the dealer and he said sounds like the turbo went out, installed new turbo, same thing, called the dealer back, got the run around again, its now Friday and called back Monday and now the service manager is gone for the week. I talked to the parts manager and told him I needed the history on the machine, so the local Duetz dealer could look up the engine, to check on warranty, as of today, I have heard nothing. This company was bought out by Cat (Gregory Poole) so I contacted GP and they tried to call both of the saleman and neither, answered their voice mail or emails. Im in construction business and so I guess Im a salesman, I have to sell my work. After paying for the machine, I found out that the saleman had lied to me, he said it had a new set of rails installed (steel track model) found out that the had installed a used set, so the first week I broke a pin in one of the links. I then contacted both sales people and asked them what they were going to do about it, no answer within 4 days, I then left them both a not nice email and voice mail, still no reply. They are sales people and should act professional, but they act like I got your money, now F you (pardon my french) bottom line, I fixed the track problem out of pocket.
Almost forgot, Duetz dealer came out and they cant get the engine started, I loaded on the trailer and took it to them, their master mechanic found no compression on 3 of 4 cylinders, this engine has about 500 hrs on it.
Guess I'm getting long winded again, so Ill stop
Questions
1. Anyone having problems with their duetz engines? I did find out that Fecon is installing John Deere in their machines now
2. How do I get a record of when the engine was installed? My Duetz dealer, says he needs a in service date to even begin the search

Guess Im looking at big bucks, to get me back to work in this slow ecomony, unless the warranty thing will kick in:Banghead

[DirectTech]

Where I work we have a cust. replace his duetz engine in his Rayco 3 time in three years with only one time being his fault,(he dusted the engine), sounds like the same setup 4 cyl oil cooled, We found out the duetz has really poor quality control, one engine we installed did not have the oil pressure regulator installed when they shipped it out, the last one we just put is was not timed right so when we turned it over bent push rods, so I would say if it at all possible swap engine manufactures, it may cost more up front but it may save you in the long run

[Willis Bushogin]

Where I work we have a cust. replace his duetz engine in his Rayco 3 time in three years with only one time being his fault,(he dusted the engine), sounds like the same setup 4 cyl oil cooled, We found out the duetz has really poor quality control, one engine we installed did not have the oil pressure regulator installed when they shipped it out, the last one we just put is was not timed right so when we turned it over bent push rods, so I would say if it at all possible swap engine manufactures, it may cost more up front but it may save you in the long run

Have any ideas on a easy replacement engine, I sure would like to find one that would fit, that has more power and life time.

[Iron Horse]

Have a look on the Perkins web site for an engine that is the correct hp and torque rating to replace yours . You may be able to go a little bigger as well . Most industrial engines have an SAE bellhousing so finding one to match your pump adaptor will not be a problem . Then it's just engine mounts , air con bracket etc . You should have room for a radiator , if not you may be able to run a remote radiator on the cab protection frame out of harms way . You can buy a "Power Pack" version that comes skid mounted with a radiator and watchdog protection , it would have engine mounts and everything you would need for the conversion . http://www.perkins.com/cda/layout?m=96603&x=7

[DirectTech]

I would try to find information out on a perkins I don't have much experience with them but I have heard good things

[Willis Bushogin]

Have any ideas on a easy replacement engine, I sure would like to find one that would fit, that has more power and life time.
Deutz dealer said the fuel control sensor, went bad and caused the fuel control to give too much fuel????? Fecon is waiting to get back with me about any warranty. Seems like no one wants to back their product.
Perkins says they dont think they have a engine that will interchange easily.
Still on standby.

[bobcatmechanic]

what kind of coupling is it belt drive direct drive u joint it would help in the engine to put in there because if its u joint it would be the easy ist to swap but im sure you can get a custom mounting plate made to swap engine menufactures granted its not what you want to do but if they are going to run you around then see ya or just trade it off for something else or go to another dealer further away and see if they wont deal with you better then your local dealer is granted its further to drive but sales sells the first one service sells the rest.

[hvy 1ton]

If they are putting deeres in them now shouldn't that be easier than the Perkapillar? If it won't bolt directly to your pump you could sell it and buy they one they are now using with deere engines. It wouldn't be cheap, but i'd like to think the deere wouldn't give you any trouble after the changeover. Hopefully they are still using the same pump with the newer motors.

[Senator215i]

I've heard some bad stories of the Deutz engines in the rayco/fecon i heard of one bloke over hear in aus thats gone through 6 engines so far

[Deereman]

Like HVy 1ton said. I would go and see what i could find out about the deere engine(4045) I think thats what they use. Should be a whole lot easier to switch over with motor mounts and all. If i am not mistaken deutz is air cooled, I don't see how that don't melt down anyway:beatsme I didn't notice where you were from but if you have to visit either a deere constuction dealership or a Deere engine power source near you and see what they could do for you. We have had to put deere engines in All kinds of things. Even replaced a 6 cylinder Mercedes-Benz with a 4 banger in a liebherr track loader and the guy loved it:D

[Willis Bushogin]

I always tell people to do their homework, before doing anything. About 7 months ago I bought a 2005 Fecon FTX90L with 350 hrs and about 150 hrs on a new engine. It has the Duetz 4 cylinder oil cooled engine, the reason, as I was told, the engine was replaced, was because the machine did not have a aux coolong package. It was added at the same time as the engine. I was told at time of purchase that the engine had warranty until Aug 08. BADDDDD experience with dealership since day after I paid for the machine. I wont go into that story, another topic
When doing my homework, I discovered that the Duetz engines gave problems, without the extra cooling package, so with the other pluses and a warranty on the engine, I decided to buy this unit. I now have 750 hrs and I just got finished with a 100 acre tract and was using it at the house for the grandkids dirt bike trail, when the engine started losing power, black smoking and I cut it off. Checked everything, looked OK, tried to start again and no starting. Called the dealer and he said sounds like the turbo went out, installed new turbo, same thing, called the dealer back, got the run around again, its now Friday and called back Monday and now the service manager is gone for the week. I talked to the parts manager and told him I needed the history on the machine, so the local Duetz dealer could look up the engine, to check on warranty, as of today, I have heard nothing. This company was bought out by Cat (Gregory Poole) so I contacted GP and they tried to call both of the saleman and neither, answered their voice mail or emails. Im in construction business and so I guess Im a salesman, I have to sell my work. After paying for the machine, I found out that the saleman had lied to me, he said it had a new set of rails installed (steel track model) found out that the had installed a used set, so the first week I broke a pin in one of the links. I then contacted both sales people and asked them what they were going to do about it, no answer within 4 days, I then left them both a not nice email and voice mail, still no reply. They are sales people and should act professional, but they act like I got your money, now F you (pardon my french) bottom line, I fixed the track problem out of pocket.
Almost forgot, Duetz dealer came out and they cant get the engine started, I loaded on the trailer and took it to them, their master mechanic found no compression on 3 of 4 cylinders, this engine has about 500 hrs on it.
Guess I'm getting long winded again, so Ill stop
Questions
1. Anyone having problems with their duetz engines? I did find out that Fecon is installing John Deere in their machines now
2. How do I get a record of when the engine was installed? My Duetz dealer, says he needs a in service date to even begin the search

Guess Im looking at big bucks, to get me back to work in this slow ecomony, unless the warranty thing will kick in:Banghead

Totaly disgusted:Banghead Still no progress, on the bad deutz engine situation. I finally found my bill of sale and it states that I have engine warranty until 08-11-08. Now that the dealer Pioneer Machinery has been sold to Greogory Poole/Cat, Cat says they didnt have anything to do with the original sale and they were not liable.
Ok dealer started working at Deutz, Deutz says engine is out of warranty, this is the second engine and warranty started with the first engine. The engines are failing because the fuel sensor, is putting too much fuel to the engine. Now they know they have a problem, but they dont intend to do anything about it.
Fecon, says we will furnish a new style Deutz engine, but I have to pay them $4000 and pay the dealer the installtion charge of about $3500+. Yea I know something wrong with this picture. I bought a $70,000 machine with a engine warranty, now it doesnt have a warranty and I have to come up with $7500.
All parties involved have almost quit talking, all I get is thats the deal, take it or leave it.
Went to the lawyer, last Friday and he says "are they crazy, you have a warranty in writting and everyone says its no good" We'll sue their *&^%<> off, but it make take forever to get anything and the payments still need to be made. Fecon has returned the lawyers calls, but he was at court each time Fecon called, but Fecon says they dont plan on changing their offer. This comes from a company that is replacing the Deutz (2011) engine, with a Yanmar, they are also buying some machines back, but this offer is not for me.
Soooo, as I have done on other posts, watchout if you plan on buying a Fecon/Rayco or anything with a Deutz.
Just my 2 cents worth

[Iron Horse]

Tell the scum bags that you will pay them what they ask as long as they install the Yanmar . Have you got insurance against downtime ? If so make a claim and sue their butts off if they do'nt accept your offer .

[driftless]

I'm going through this issue too, two days out of warrenty. First Deutz sent an email offering an replacement engine; after I complained that they should cover labor they reneged on that. I'm also very disgruntled that no one from Fecon or Deutz contacted me before my warrenty lapsed to tell me this was coming. They aren't hiding the fact that they know about this defect.

Anyone else out there that is/has dealt with this Fecon/Rayco Deutz issue, Please contact me...

Jesse Bennett
jesse@driftlesslandstewardship.com

[Iron Horse]

I would grab the engine they offered and fit it myself or pay someone $300 to do it for you (maybe they will agree to supply a Yanmar) instead of a Deutz . "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ". It's a long expensive road if you choose a class action .

[driftless]

I would grab the engine they offered and fit it myself or pay someone $300 to do it for you (maybe they will agree to supply a Yanmar) instead of a Deutz . "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ". It's a long expensive road if you choose a class action .

Deutz retracted their offer of a replacement engine. They're claiming that upon further investigation (after the Department of Consumer Protection talked to them on my behalf) that this, unlike all the other breakdowns out there, was dust in the oil. Pretty convenient for them!

Unfortunatly for them, the evidence looks like their other fuel-related failures and everyone I talk to (e.g. Fecon dealers, repair shops, Fecon themselves), not to mention the numerous mentions of this defect on google, know that these are defective machines.

I'm in no way looking forward to legal action but I have a pretty good BS detector and it is telling me that these companies screwed up and are trying to pass the sh*t on to too many struggling business owners like myself. I fought like hell to get this far in business; I got a bit more fight in me and I truely believe I'm in the right. Oh yeah, it really helps that there are so very many folks out there that were in or are still in this same boat and/or see through their BS.

Other Fecon/Rayco owners / previous owners email me. jesse@driftlesslandstewardship.com

[Iron Horse]

What was the original problem ? Did you have your own oil analysis done ? Have you still got the oil filter(don't cut it open with a saw) ? What does the mechanical damage consist of ? Do you have any photos we can see ? The manufacturers always take the "If you can't dazzle them with science , baffle them with bull" stand which usually works as the owner goes away broke and disheartened . I'm sorry to hear of your plight .

[Noose]

We have 6 Raycos all with the same issues. Its the oil pressure sending unit, thats failing, The Duetz was chosen for its power to wieght ratio. Up here we skate the edge daily in muskeg and bogs. a extra 100 makes big differences. I tried a Yanmar conversion and was really impressed and would like to go that way but its a 3 week conversion and our engines only go when it's time to work. Maybe some preventitive maintentance in the spring.
To the guys with the Yanmars how many hours have you racked up on the Yanmar?

[aongheas.macask]

I always tell people to do their homework, before doing anything. About 7 months ago I bought a 2005 Fecon FTX90L with 350 hrs and about 150 hrs on a new engine. It has the Duetz 4 cylinder oil cooled engine, the reason, as I was told, the engine was replaced, was because the machine did not have a aux coolong package. It was added at the same time as the engine. I was told at time of purchase that the engine had warranty until Aug 08. BADDDDD experience with dealership since day after I paid for the machine. I wont go into that story, another topic
When doing my homework, I discovered that the Duetz engines gave problems, without the extra cooling package, so with the other pluses and a warranty on the engine, I decided to buy this unit. I now have 750 hrs and I just got finished with a 100 acre tract and was using it at the house for the grandkids dirt bike trail, when the engine started losing power, black smoking and I cut it off. Checked everything, looked OK, tried to start again and no starting. Called the dealer and he said sounds like the turbo went out, installed new turbo, same thing, called the dealer back, got the run around again, its now Friday and called back Monday and now the service manager is gone for the week. I talked to the parts manager and told him I needed the history on the machine, so the local Duetz dealer could look up the engine, to check on warranty, as of today, I have heard nothing. This company was bought out by Cat (Gregory Poole) so I contacted GP and they tried to call both of the saleman and neither, answered their voice mail or emails. Im in construction business and so I guess Im a salesman, I have to sell my work. After paying for the machine, I found out that the saleman had lied to me, he said it had a new set of rails installed (steel track model) found out that the had installed a used set, so the first week I broke a pin in one of the links. I then contacted both sales people and asked them what they were going to do about it, no answer within 4 days, I then left them both a not nice email and voice mail, still no reply. They are sales people and should act professional, but they act like I got your money, now F you (pardon my french) bottom line, I fixed the track problem out of pocket.
Almost forgot, Duetz dealer came out and they cant get the engine started, I loaded on the trailer and took it to them, their master mechanic found no compression on 3 of 4 cylinders, this engine has about 500 hrs on it.
Guess I'm getting long winded again, so Ill stop
Questions
1. Anyone having problems with their duetz engines? I did find out that Fecon is installing John Deere in their machines now
2. How do I get a record of when the engine was installed? My Duetz dealer, says he needs a in service date to even begin the search

Guess Im looking at big bucks, to get me back to work in this slow ecomony, unless the warranty thing will kick in:Banghead

Hi Willis,
Sounds like a typical Deutz response, I worked for Liebherr in the UK and we had numerous warranty reponse problems with Deutz UK and their dealers, when an engine fails they ask for date in service which the original machine dealer or manufacturer should have as a commission date, Deutz say they should be informed of this date by the machine seller as start of warranty date, if they dont have this they use the delivery date of the engine from Deutz to the manufacturer, however the engine could lie in a factory a long time before fitting.
Personally I think their engines and especially the oil cooled type are poor quality and unsuited to excavator operating conditions, if you get no joy with Deutz I agree you should replace with a more robust and reliable motor.
Only my experiences and thoughts.
Regards and sorry to hear of your plight.:(

[V16CatMetKanick]

I've worked on more Deutz engines and found them to be all junk. I've had better luck with Cummapart (Cummins) engines than Deutz. Yanmar engines I've seen run 20,000 hrs with no major problems, just normal problems ( water pumps, maybe a few injectors, etc). Deere is a really good choice in engines too, a small Cat wouldn't be a bad idea, but you wouldn't get the max life out of them like you would a Jap motor. Just stay away from the little Cummaparts because they have alot of things that go wrong in the heads and injector systems. They can't build them like the big ones. Bobcat used a very few Deutz and stopped using them because they found out how much of a pile of iron they are, they use now all Kubota engines.

[LARS50]

I have two leaf vacuum repowed with oil cool 4cyl deutz one engine no problems the 2nd vac at 40 to 50 hr the #3 cyl piston burn up deutz replace
the engine i payed for labor and at 40 hr the 2nd engine did the same deutz
will not stand by there engines i need people that had this same problem
to let me know so my lawer can check this help (never used a deutz agan)

[TCILandclearing]

I just Joined this site so I could let you all know that I have the same problems with my Rayco Deutz. The Deutz engines are junk Period. They arent much of a motor to begin with but in the crawler mower application its a joke. I have put a total of four 2011 Deutz engines in my Rayco C87l and they all failed the original engine made it 1400hrs then the next was 400 and the next was 192 and the next was 82. The dealer that was putting these in was grossly incompetent and I think they were doing something wrong but still the motors are junk. I have run the gammet with Deutz and they will lie dodge and avoid to not go good for these. One of my new engines came through with an oil switch missing and I ran it for a week or so and then brought it back because it wouldn run right. They figured that out and then about two months later it blew a hole in the block as I was plowing a camp road. Of course this is after they chased a non existant wiring problem for a week at $86/hr because they couldn't belive that the gauge was only showing 7lbs of pressure. like I said they aren't much for motors to begin with and when you add this paticular dealership to the equation you don't stand a chance. I mean, I literally have three of these motors at my shop that I paid $10K a piece for and they are junk. Boat anchors.

I think what is happening is the dealerships would actually like to go good for these but Deutz won't and then its either they pay on their own or not and the customer is left holding the bag.

Now let me tell you my solution. After junk engine number 4 I was completely broke. with the downtime and the repair cost it about ruined me. So I took a job for the winter just to put food on the table. Somebody had given me an old GMC NPR box truck and it had an Izusu 4BD1T motor. All mechanical. I spent nights and weekends re-engineering this start to finish. Now, as luck would have it this motor is a good fit fot the 87L / FTX90 because it runs at 3000 rpm but it has 116hp. I tood the Deutz bellhousing off one of my motors and had a machine shop fit it on to the Izusu engine and also take the pump spline receiver off the deutz flywheel and center it on the Flywheel of the new engine. Under $400 at a local machine shop. then slide it in and bolt it up. Even the front motor mounts are correct because they are on that Deutz bell houseing. Cut the old rayco motor mounts out of the rayco chasis. I had a fab guy come and build me some new motor mounts on site. $200. My machine is an 04 so it didn't have the high cool package but it did have limb risers so I just remoted the cooler up there. I used the deutz alternator because it had all my plug ins to run the rayco computer and tach. I spent about another $1000 on parts and paying a mechanic to wire it up because it was beyond me. the Air cleaner and exaust are on the outside of the cowling where they should be and I have a decent running machine for about $2K and I'm back in buisness. Its really kind of a joke. I mean I took an unkown milage and hour motor and put it in a machine it wasn't even made for and it runs better, cooler more reliable than the three $10 to $12k dealer installed Deutz. The moral of the story is if you want something done right you have got to do it yourself. Also I feel I should say that Rayco has been as decent as they can be to me through all this. They won't go good for the engines but why should they They are not theirs. Deutz is the liars and cheaters in this game and they should get theirs so lets try to get together and see what we can do about at least forcing them to buy back the junk engines they have sold us. Thanks for letting me vent, Keep in touch.

[Willis Bushogin]

I just Joined this site so I could let you all know that I have the same problems with my Rayco Deutz. The Deutz engines are junk Period. They arent much of a motor to begin with but in the crawler mower application its a joke. I have put a total of four 2011 Deutz engines in my Rayco C87l and they all failed the original engine made it 1400hrs then the next was 400 and the next was 192 and the next was 82. The dealer that was putting these in was grossly incompetent and I think they were doing something wrong but still the motors are junk. I have run the gammet with Deutz and they will lie dodge and avoid to not go good for these. One of my new engines came through with an oil switch missing and I ran it for a week or so and then brought it back because it wouldn run right. They figured that out and then about two months later it blew a hole in the block as I was plowing a camp road. Of course this is after they chased a non existant wiring problem for a week at $86/hr because they couldn't belive that the gauge was only showing 7lbs of pressure. like I said they aren't much for motors to begin with and when you add this paticular dealership to the equation you don't stand a chance. I mean, I literally have three of these motors at my shop that I paid $10K a piece for and they are junk. Boat anchors.

I think what is happening is the dealerships would actually like to go good for these but Deutz won't and then its either they pay on their own or not and the customer is left holding the bag.

Now let me tell you my solution. After junk engine number 4 I was completely broke. with the downtime and the repair cost it about ruined me. So I took a job for the winter just to put food on the table. Somebody had given me an old GMC NPR box truck and it had an Izusu 4BD1T motor. All mechanical. I spent nights and weekends re-engineering this start to finish. Now, as luck would have it this motor is a good fit fot the 87L / FTX90 because it runs at 3000 rpm but it has 116hp. I tood the Deutz bellhousing off one of my motors and had a machine shop fit it on to the Izusu engine and also take the pump spline receiver off the deutz flywheel and center it on the Flywheel of the new engine. Under $400 at a local machine shop. then slide it in and bolt it up. Even the front motor mounts are correct because they are on that Deutz bell houseing. Cut the old rayco motor mounts out of the rayco chasis. I had a fab guy come and build me some new motor mounts on site. $200. My machine is an 04 so it didn't have the high cool package but it did have limb risers so I just remoted the cooler up there. I used the deutz alternator because it had all my plug ins to run the rayco computer and tach. I spent about another $1000 on parts and paying a mechanic to wire it up because it was beyond me. the Air cleaner and exaust are on the outside of the cowling where they should be and I have a decent running machine for about $2K and I'm back in buisness. Its really kind of a joke. I mean I took an unkown milage and hour motor and put it in a machine it wasn't even made for and it runs better, cooler more reliable than the three $10 to $12k dealer installed Deutz. The moral of the story is if you want something done right you have got to do it yourself. Also I feel I should say that Rayco has been as decent as they can be to me through all this. They won't go good for the engines but why should they They are not theirs. Deutz is the liars and cheaters in this game and they should get theirs so lets try to get together and see what we can do about at least forcing them to buy back the junk engines they have sold us. Thanks for letting me vent, Keep in touch.

I cant agree more, with all you said. I guess thats the reason Fecon is not using Deutz anymore. It did (my blown engine) put me out of business. The finance company didnt want to help me with the situation and I couldnt afford to fix it, Fecon and Deutz was useless and more so, the dealer I bought it from (with a warranty) would not even take my calls. Lawyer said I had a case, but it would take a up front retainer (I think he said $5000) if I had that kind of extra money, I would have tried to fix the machine HUMMMMM
Bottom line they reposed the machine, hired my dealer to fix/replace the engine. I havent had any contact with them since the repo, but Im sure they will sell the machine for nothing and come after me for the rest. That should be interested, when this happens. I was making a little money with the machine, so now that income is gone, so where am I going to get the money to pay the difference:Banghead HUMMMMMM Dang IT

Thanks all, I dont want to get started venting again. Im 64 years old and never had anything reposed

Final note, stay away from Duetz

[Iron Horse]

I'm sorry to hear they have treated you so badly . I would seek your department of free legal aid , as your income is gone and sue them . You now have nothing to lose and everything to gain . You may even be entitled to make a claim for lost earnings and even stress . There are also many law firms that will take your case and only charge IF they win for you . These costs are often awarded to you in the settlement . If these firms say they will take your case , it will be because they are certain they will get paid . You bought the machine with a warranty , no matter who buys a business out , they MUST honour the warranty . I think you will find that the company will meet you on the court house steps and settle out of court . They are bluffing you at the moment , waiting for you to give up .