OK all you demo experts

[BIGDAN315]

I am going to bid on a small demo job. It is a small, 1000 square foot cape cod home that was damaged beyond repair by a fire. It has a full basement which is half full of stuff, This guy was a pack rat, and the house with most of it's contents. The house is a stick built with ashphalt siding which was covered with cedar shingles. How does one go about figuring how many cubic yards that this house will take up and tonage as well for estamting cost for dumpsters. Would apprieciate any inputs. Thanks

[Nac]

(5) 30 Cy boxs avg 8 tons each
(4) 20 Cy concrete boxs
I am just figuring my smallest house I have demo'd

[Turbo21835]

Im going to say 3-4 30yd dumpsters. The can guys are going to hate me saying this, but you can give the material in the can a good beating. You will get more in there. Im not sure on weight laws in your part of the country, but the rule of thumb here is if the truck can pick it up, it goes. Last 2 cans I sent out that poor truck was just a grunting. Not to say I would help push the can on with the hoe either.

Concrete. Around here I would guess a train, and another lead full after that. You are also going to need dirt to backfill the old basement, unless your going to be putting a new house in.

[BIGDAN315]

(5) 30 Cy boxs avg 8 tons each
(4) 20 Cy concrete boxs
I am just figuring my smallest house I have demo'd

Concrete boxes ? You mean for the concrete ? Any foundation stone and concrete I am planning on putting into the basement and all wood and other material into boxes. Do you remove the foudation as well ?

[BIGDAN315]

Im going to say 3-4 30yd dumpsters. The can guys are going to hate me saying this, but you can give the material in the can a good beating. You will get more in there. Im not sure on weight laws in your part of the country, but the rule of thumb here is if the truck can pick it up, it goes. Last 2 cans I sent out that poor truck was just a grunting. Not to say I would help push the can on with the hoe either.

Concrete. Around here I would guess a train, and another lead full after that. You are also going to need dirt to backfill the old basement, unless your going to be putting a new house in.

Not rebuilding just filling in basement and planting grass. What would be a going price for this job in your area ?

[tonka]

You probably have to remove the concrete foundation to, check your local laws...

or 2-3 walking floors
2-3 tryaxles for the concrete

[BIGDAN315]

pic of the house.

[surfer-joe]

Relight the fire and let her burn out. Much less debris to haul away. :->

[nedly05]

Are you going to haul the house away your self? How far to the dump? How much per ton to dump? With an excavator you should be able to put it in a pile and munch it all up and load it out in a day to a day in a half if you had enough trucks hauling.Fill in the basement and grade it off the next day if the fill is close enough.

[CM1995]

My first suggestion, surfer-joe beat me to it.:D

OK on to plan B:

Couple of questions -
1. what piece(s) of equipment are you going to use?
2. How much of the house is full of contents? And what kind of contents are
they? That may sound simple, but I have had my rear end handed to me
because I did not estimate the amount of personal contents that were left
in the house. Clothing, furniture, appliances, junk - adds volumne.
3. What will you be using to haul the debris? Roll-offs or dump truck?
4. What is the tipping fee at the landfill?
5. Hard bid or unit price contract?
6. Will you be allowed to bury the concrete, brick, stone foundation back into
the basement hole.
7. How far is the borrow pit for the backfill? How much, if any, do you have
to pay for fill?


The answers of those questions will have an impact on the cost.

If I was going to give an estimate for this house demo -

6-8 30CY cans worth of trash, 7-8 tons each box
5-6 Tri-axle loads of concrete/foundation material - if you can't bury it
Backfill- would have to look at the site and see how the owner wanted the finish product.

Time:

If you had a 315/160 size hoe, you should be able to get it all down in a day, and finish the haul-out of the debris the next day. 2 days tops. Of course this depends on the amount of cans/trucks you have, distance to the dump and so and so forth.




On my last demo job (http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=6922), I had 6 - 30CY boxes of trash, 1 tri-axle load of trash, 4 tri-axle loads of brick and concrete. This house was on a crawl space with brick piers and a 1/2 ass continuous footing. I had to use my loader since my hoe was down south at the beach. Since I had to use my loader, there was more dirt than I would normally put in the trash boxes.

This is the mistake I made on this one: The house was burned pretty well, or so I thought. I looked in the front of the house (it was boarded up pretty well) and I could see bare studs in the living room and front bedrooms. OK, I thought pretty simple. Well the problem was the rear bedroom and kitchen hadn't burned much. So all the appliances, cabinets etc in the kitchen were still there. Also there was a storage room on the back of the house full of clothes, boxes and other junk.

My bid for this job was $4600. It took 2 days to demo and clean everything up. I used my roll-offs and my tri-axle. Luckily I have an inert pit to take the concrete, brick, etc to that didn't cost me a dump fee. I had 6 30's full of trash that averaged 6 tons each.

6 tons @ $18 per ton, 6 boxes = $648 in dump fees.
2 days, 8 hours each, 2 trucks (roll-off and tri-axle) @ $75 per hour = $1200
953C, 2 days, 8 hours @ $125 per hour = $2000
Total = $3848
Profit margin 16%
(didn't really use the mini-hoe, so didn't include it)

My bid was $4600, so not too bad, considering that I got normal hourly rates for the trucks and equipment. This job should have been $6000, for a better profit margin. (35%)

[BIGDAN315]

Are you going to haul the house away your self? How far to the dump? How much per ton to dump? With an excavator you should be able to put it in a pile and munch it all up and load it out in a day to a day in a half if you had enough trucks hauling.Fill in the basement and grade it off the next day if the fill is close enough.

I will probably hall some myself and some to cans, The landfill is in the same town so pritty close by. I havn't checked on fees there yet but from past experiance can people are charging 40 a ton plus trucking in this area so the less heavy stuff to take to the land fill the better. I have a pc 70 excavator with hyd thumb and a tandom dump which will work just take more time maybe rent a larger hoe for the day. I am a one man band here so a good sise job for me. I have demoed mobile homes before and one 2 story barn with my machine which took 2 -30 yard dumpsters. All wood materials in the barn and salvaged the metal roofing. The home owner payed the dumpser fees and I got 75 an hour for my mini.

[BIGDAN315]

My first suggestion, surfer-joe beat me to it.:D

OK on to plan B:

Couple of questions -
1. what piece(s) of equipment are you going to use?
2. How much of the house is full of contents? And what kind of contents are
they? That may sound simple, but I have had my rear end handed to me
because I did not estimate the amount of personal contents that were left
in the house. Clothing, furniture, appliances, junk - adds volumne.
3. What will you be using to haul the debris? Roll-offs or dump truck?
4. What is the tipping fee at the landfill?
5. Hard bid or unit price contract?
6. Will you be allowed to bury the concrete, brick, stone foundation back into
the basement hole.
7. How far is the borrow pit for the backfill? How much, if any, do you have
to pay for fill?


The answers of those questions will have an impact on the cost.

If I was going to give an estimate for this house demo -

6-8 30CY cans worth of trash, 7-8 tons each box
5-6 Tri-axle loads of concrete/foundation material - if you can't bury it
Backfill- would have to look at the site and see how the owner wanted the finish product.

Time:

If you had a 315/160 size hoe, you should be able to get it all down in a day, and finish the haul-out of the debris the next day. 2 days tops. Of course this depends on the amount of cans/trucks you have, distance to the dump and so and so forth.

On my last demo job (http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=6922), I had 6 - 30CY boxes of trash, 1 tri-axle load of trash, 4 tri-axle loads of brick and concrete. This house was on a crawl space with brick piers and a 1/2 ass continuous footing. I had to use my loader since my hoe was down south at the beach. Since I had to use my loader, there was more dirt than I would normally put in the trash boxes.

This is the mistake I made on this one: The house was burned pretty well, or so I thought. I looked in the front of the house (it was boarded up pretty well) and I could see bare studs in the living room and front bedrooms. OK, I thought pretty simple. Well the problem was the rear bedroom and kitchen hadn't burned much. So all the appliances, cabinets etc in the kitchen were still there. Also there was a storage room on the back of the house full of clothes, boxes and other junk.

My bid for this job was $4600. It took 2 days to demo and clean everything up. I used my roll-offs and my tri-axle. Luckily I have an inert pit to take the concrete, brick, etc to that didn't cost me a dump fee. I had 6 30's full of trash that averaged 6 tons each.

6 tons @ $18 per ton, 6 boxes = $648 in dump fees.
2 days, 8 hours each, 2 trucks (roll-off and tri-axle) @ $75 per hour = $1200
953C, 2 days, 8 hours @ $125 per hour = $2000
Total = $3848
Profit margin 16%
(didn't really use the mini-hoe, so didn't include it)

My bid was $4600, so not too bad, considering that I got normal hourly rates for the trucks and equipment. This job should have been $6000, for a better profit margin. (35%)



1 I have a pc 70 with hyd thumb and a tandom dump, 450 dozer. Q # 2 there is furniture, appliances,clothes,etc. This guy was a pack rat..*** Q #3 roll offs and dump. Q#4 don't know yet Q#5 Hard bid. Q # 6 Have to find this out yet. Q#7 don't know this one yet either. $6000 for this job sounds low I Have herd of contractors getting $10 to $12000 for home demoes.

[BIGDAN315]

Relight the fire and let her burn out. Much less debris to haul away. :->

:eek::ban:drinkup

[Nac]

Yes here in Norther NJ we have to remove all concrete walls, floors, and footings. Like I said that house will fit in (5) 30 cy cans 8 tons ea. avg. if you pack it down with your size machine it might be a little tuff. With my 160 and a grapple yhe house would be down in 1/2 hr. if the dump is in the same town you should be able to round trip in under an hour as long as you have 2 boxs and a deacated truck so you scould be loading concrete by the end of the day 2 days tops with demo cleanup and backfill. Also I would bring 1 or 2 laborers to help sort scrap metal and cover boxes and clean up so the rolloff truck is just pulling boxs and nor wasting time.

[D5G]

I by no means know anything about demo, but like Nac said, if you can shake loose a laborer or two, it will definately help. Be sure to take some pics for us if you get the job!

[BIGDAN315]

Yes here in Norther NJ we have to remove all concrete walls, floors, and footings. Like I said that house will fit in (5) 30 cy cans 8 tons ea. avg. if you pack it down with your size machine it might be a little tuff. With my 160 and a grapple yhe house would be down in 1/2 hr. if the dump is in the same town you should be able to round trip in under an hour as long as you have 2 boxs and a deacated truck so you scould be loading concrete by the end of the day 2 days tops with demo cleanup and backfill. Also I would bring 1 or 2 laborers to help sort scrap metal and cover boxes and clean up so the rolloff truck is just pulling boxs and nor wasting time.

Nac, I talked to code enforcement today and yes it all has to go .There will be nothing left but dirt. The driveway can stay though which is concrete. The landfill gets $ 52 a ton. If I had a ton of work lined up I would do as you descibed and geter done in a couple of days but right now things are slow so I can afford to take my time. The owner says he got some other estimates and the numbers where fuzzy ??? I am thinking they are not commiting to a solid number. Which is understandable to a degree.

[cbhfour]

I also am no demo expert, but here's how I go about estimating volume. I take the square footage of the building and then estimate how tall the footprint pile will be once the building is down. I do the math and get the CY and then add about 20-25% for air in the cans.(That's for wood frame, no brick or concrete) For the slab and footings or any other concrete, I figure the CY and add 40% for voids in the can. I just fiqured a Hardee's Demo and came up with 20- 30CY for the building and about 8- 20CY for the slab and footings. This job also has about 18,000SF of asphalt removal and 500 LF of Curb and Gutter removal. Also, on these bigger demo jobs, I will use two dumpster companies because they'll only put one dedicated truck each, that way I can get around 16 pulls per day.

[Nac]

I also am no demo expert, but here's how I go about estimating volume. I take the square footage of the building and then estimate how tall the footprint pile will be once the building is down. I do the math and get the CY and then add about 20-25% for air in the cans.(That's for wood frame, no brick or concrete) For the slab and footings or any other concrete, I figure the CY and add 40% for voids in the can. I just fiqured a Hardee's Demo and came up with 20- 30CY for the building and about 8- 20CY for the slab and footings. This job also has about 18,000SF of asphalt removal and 500 LF of Curb and Gutter removal. Also, on these bigger demo jobs, I will use two dumpster companies because they'll only put one dedicated truck each, that way I can get around 16 pulls per day.

Did I read this right 20 30CY cans? I wish you where my compation i would get every job.

[humboldt deere]

I think he means 20 to 30 cu. yds. If that is right it seems low though.

[cbhfour]

I did mean twenty 30CY cans.

Nac, curious as to how many cans you would estimate for a 3200 SF Hardee's Restaurant?

[cbhfour]

I was talking about 20 cans for a job I was bidding, not the house Bigdan was quoting.

[RollOver Pete]

Too bad this isn't in So. Cal.
Here you could put up a fence,
private property and no trespassing signs and in a few days the place would be stripped down,
loaded up on bobtail flatbeds and across the border.
Call it a version of recycling.
:cool:

[jrtraderny]

Nac, I talked to code enforcement today and yes it all has to go .There will be nothing left but dirt. The driveway can stay though which is concrete. The landfill gets $ 52 a ton. If I had a ton of work lined up I would do as you descibed and geter done in a couple of days but right now things are slow so I can afford to take my time. The owner says he got some other estimates and the numbers where fuzzy ??? I am thinking they are not commiting to a solid number. Which is understandable to a degree.

Dan,
I can tell ya right now that the owner is NOT going to get a firm quote on a demo, unless it's extremely high. When you're getting rid of demo debris nobody can tell you how much it will weigh , and the landfill is by the ton. No one in they're right mind would give a firm price on a demo. You can get close but you need some wiggle room.
jr

[BIGDAN315]

Jr.
What you say makes sense to me. I think a ballpark figure is all he is going to get from me. I just want to make sure I am not our of the ball park when finished....:Pointhead

[Turbo21835]

Too bad this isn't in So. Cal.
Here you could put up a fence,
private property and no trespassing signs and in a few days the place would be stripped down,
loaded up on bobtail flatbeds and across the border.
Call it a version of recycling.
:cool:

Funny, we have a similar situation here. Except the stuff doesnt cross the border. It usually is limited only to metals. Copper goes first. Then aluminum siding on the back of the house goes next, closely followed by the sides of the house. Then the front gets hit. At first this is limited To the lower 8ft of the house. It also includes the aluminum storm door. Now when the house gets torn down, every thing is fair game, dont mind the guy sitting in the excavator, hes just there to help you load it out :beatsme

If they are nice enough to put it in a can that says metal only, that is surely going to the landfill. So help yourself. Even better, ask the guy running the excavator if its going to the landfill. When he says no, its going to the scrap yard, and get the *$%#@ outa here, that means come back after hes done for the day. Remember, only grab the stuff outside the building, otherwise your breaking and entering. That means more jail time if you get caught

[BIGDAN315]

Well I got the job. will keep you all posted.

[Nac]

I did mean twenty 30CY cans.

Nac, curious as to how many cans you would estimate for a 3200 SF Hardee's Restaurant?

I would have to see how many interior partions and stuff there is left behind how tall the walls are. But off the top of my head 14 30CY cans what ever you would figure if it was a house demo and double the price since it is commercial.

[Nac]

Dan,
I can tell ya right now that the owner is NOT going to get a firm quote on a demo, unless it's extremely high. When you're getting rid of demo debris nobody can tell you how much it will weigh , and the landfill is by the ton. No one in they're right mind would give a firm price on a demo. You can get close but you need some wiggle room.
jr

When I bid demo it is a firm price the only thing i would exclude if the footings are bigger than average and i do not know how big they are with out digging them up.

[tonka]

congrats DAN!

[BIGDAN315]

congrats DAN!

Thanks, Tonka

[CM1995]

Jr.
What you say makes sense to me. I think a ballpark figure is all he is going to get from me. I just want to make sure I am not our of the ball park when finished....:Pointhead

Well I got the job. will keep you all posted.

What was your estimated quantity of debris? How did the contract turn out- guaranteed maximum price, hard bid or T&M?

And congratulations.

[BIGDAN315]

What was your estimated quantity of debris? How did the contract turn out- guaranteed maximum price, hard bid or T&M?

And congratulations.

From the info I gathered here and from my own 2 cents I estemated about 40 tons of wood and contents to the land fill which I will probably hall myself. The land fill is maybe 3 miles from the sight. Can people wanted $ 500 for a 40 yarder which included 4.5 ton anything over $ 50 a ton. The foundation I will also hall to a sight with no fee just feul and time to hall and aprox 50 tons there. If I hall the money goes in my pocket not the can peoples. I gave an estimate of $9000 to $11000 and the guy said he got lower ones but did not include cans and mine did. So he agreed to the price. The town gave him a time to comlete the job of 10 days starting on 7/14 to 7/23 of 08. Looks like I need to get buisy. Figures I had practly nothing going on and all of a sudden 2 nice jobs come in at the same time..Go figure..lol. Also the town wants to do a asbestes survey. According to the home owner there is none..:beatsme I added to my estimate that there will be aditional cost if there was any and it had to be removed..

[BIGDAN315]

Found out today that the home owner new about the asbestas survey, acording to code enforcement and wasn't up front with me on it. Something doesn't feel right about this already....:beatsme

[AtlasRob]

When you quote/est/price jobs such as this, do you get an advance,
a % payment up front. What we refer to as mobilisation costs ? Just curious as to how different parts of the world operate. :drinkup

BTW Good luck with this venture, thanks for being so open in your learning, it helps us all. :thumbsup

[BIGDAN315]

When you quote/est/price jobs such as this, do you get an advance,
a % payment up front. What we refer to as mobilisation costs ? Just curious as to how different parts of the world operate. :drinkup

BTW Good luck with this venture, thanks for being so open in your learning, it helps us all. :thumbsup

I asked him for 50% down then the rest when the job is done. He agreed but also said he could get close but not all of the down payment. This makes one wonder hows he going to pay the rest..:beatsme

Thats what we are here for to learn from others and thanks.

[CM1995]

I asked him for 50% down then the rest when the job is done. He agreed but also said he could get close but not all of the down payment. This makes one wonder hows he going to pay the rest..

You might want to investigate the project financing a little further before you start.

Found out today that the home owner new about the asbestas survey, acording to code enforcement and wasn't up front with me on it. Something doesn't feel right about this already...

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..............:cool:

[humboldt deere]

In california the most you can ask for legally is 10% or maximum $1,000 down payment, whichever is less.

[jrtraderny]

From the info I gathered here and from my own 2 cents I estemated about 40 tons of wood and contents to the land fill which I will probably hall myself. The land fill is maybe 3 miles from the sight. Can people wanted $ 500 for a 40 yarder which included 4.5 ton anything over $ 50 a ton. The foundation I will also hall to a sight with no fee just feul and time to hall and aprox 50 tons there. If I hall the money goes in my pocket not the can peoples. I gave an estimate of $9000 to $11000 and the guy said he got lower ones but did not include cans and mine did. So he agreed to the price. The town gave him a time to comlete the job of 10 days starting on 7/14 to 7/23 of 08. Looks like I need to get buisy. Figures I had practly nothing going on and all of a sudden 2 nice jobs come in at the same time..Go figure..lol. Also the town wants to do a asbestes survey. According to the home owner there is none..:beatsme I added to my estimate that there will be aditional cost if there was any and it had to be removed..

Dan ,FYI the one I just finished was a house about that size with a barn that was a bit larger. It took 6 40 yd. cans
and was 39.5 tons. Couldn't get it to break up well. Cans were $245 each and landfill was $46.50 a ton.
Did that job in about 9 hrs. and my take was about $2600.
jr

[BIGDAN315]

Dan ,FYI the one I just finished was a house about that size with a barn that was a bit larger. It took 6 40 yd. cans
and was 39.5 tons. Couldn't get it to break up well. Cans were $245 each and landfill was $46.50 a ton.
Did that job in about 9 hrs. and my take was about $2600.
jr

Did you have to remove the foundation and concrete floor? Which is the case here which ads another 50 tons or so and labor. This house also has allot of contents. He must of been some kind of collector.

[jrtraderny]

Did you have to remove the foundation and concrete floor? Which is the case here which ads another 50 tons or so and labor. This house also has allot of contents. He must of been some kind of collector.

House was empty and the foundation stayed.
jr

[Wolf]

So, is the house down yet? How did it go? How many loads did it take?

[BIGDAN315]

So, is the house down yet? How did it go? How many loads did it take?

Welllllllllll. Sorry to keep you hangin but When I last talked to the owner it went like this. I told him that I talked to code enforcemt and he wanted an asbestes survey and of course which had to be done before we start and if there was any present it had to be removed...:beatsme. So he said I thought that was part of the deal..:cool2. I told him it wasn't and that code officer said you where aware of it before but failed to mention it to me, Keep in mind the contract had been written but not gone over and signed by him yet, He denied that any thing was said to him about a survey. Sooo the owner was going to make some phone calls to try and find some one to do the servey. That was about a week ago and the dead line to start, set buy the town,which was on monday 7/14/08 . For the better I guess because as I mentioned a couple of posts ago things did not seem right with this whole thing and he had trouble coming up with the deposit. At the time I was hungry for work and really wasn't thrilled to do the job but money is money but also don't need the head akes..:Banghead I have another job in the works ,not a demo job, so I am ok if he got some one else. If that was the case.
Thanks to all who had inputs here..:notworthy

[RollOver Pete]

You ought to invest in one of these.
I've got one and use it all the time.
That way, there's no question of who said what to who.
:cool:

http://about.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=27260669/search=Sony%20ICD-U60/mode=about_sbinfocanada/st=query

[BIGDAN315]

You ought to invest in one of these.
I've got one and use it all the time.
That way, there's no question of who said what to who.
:cool:

http://about.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=27260669/search=Sony%20ICD-U60/mode=about_sbinfocanada/st=query

Good Idea, Is it leagal to tape a conversation without there permision though ? Or do you aske them first?

[Wolf]

Just pulling out the tape recorder and telling them, "You don't mind if I record our conversation so there is no misunderstanding in the future," is going to keep them honest.

Try it sometime.

The legality varies state by state, and it also depends what you do with the recording.

[AtlasRob]

Thanks for your reply Bigdan, sorry to hear that it all seems to have been invain, but better a no start than a no pay :Banghead

Like your idea ROP as you say it keeps em honest :wink2

[digger242j]

Good Idea, Is it leagal to tape a conversation without there permision though ? Or do you aske them first?

From:http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

Federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. A majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. These laws are referred to as "one-party consent" statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it. (Nevada also has a one-party consent statute, but the state Supreme Court has interpreted it as an all-party rule.)

Twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. Those jurisdictions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. Be aware that you will sometimes hear these referred to inaccurately as "two-party consent" laws. If there are more than two people involved in the conversation, all must consent to the taping.

So, you in Jersy are legal to tape a conversation if you're part of it, but Pete, in California has to get the consent of everybody that's there.