Truck, Trailer & Backhoe quetion

[Komar]

I am starting a Backhoe service in Central NJ. I am selling my business (Body Shop) and am going to do what I always wanted to do. I plan on purchasing a small dump, maybe like a 10 foot body, a trailer and a backhoe. What do you all suggest as far as this stuff? I do have experience in this field so that is not a concern. Any help would be apprieciated. :waving
Thanks
Mark

[cat320]

Well if money was not an object then i would get a Pete 6 wheel or maybe even a 10 wheeler for more hauling capacities then a nice 12 ton trailer long enough to add a mini excavtor on in the future.Then as far as a backhoe well I have always been partial to case so I would get a 590 series because of it's digging depth and lift capacity.But if i was a cat guy I would go with a 420DIT for the interchablity,now all these machines would be 4x4 E-Hoe and full cab with heat,radio,suspention seat. :D

I guess it really comes down to how much you have to spend.I Would probaly get a new or newer machine to start off with a good trailer and probaly get a used truck ,let's face it the machine is wat will really be pulling in the cash so why buy a new truck just to haul it around . Everything you need can be delivered or picked up by a sub.

[Steve Frazier]

I'd be looking at a 33k GVW truck, get your CDL and go this route. Anything less and you'll be running overweight sooner or later. There's a thread on converting used fleet trucks to construction use, there should be quite a few available in your area.

[Komar]

Thanks for the input. I already have my Class A CDL so thats not any problem, I figure on spending about $20,000 on a nice used Hoe. I dont want to blow $100 grand right off the bat.

[Komar]

I forgot to ask, what are your thoughts on 2 wheel vs. 4 wheel drive for a hoe?
Thanks

[Steve Frazier]

4 x 4 is definately more convenient, though you can almost always get yourself unstuck with a hoe, it's easier and less time consuming not to get stuck in the first place. 4 x 4 machines will go places with less hassle.

[kamerad47]

Stay in the bodyshop biz!!!!!

[woberlin]

Hi Komar, Glad to have you here. I to am a bodyshop owner in ohio who made the decision to give it up and fulfill a life long dream. I have a couple of lingering restoration jobs that are just about done, and then that business will be closed. So far, I have'nt had any problem getting excavating work. In fact, the work has been finding me! It all started last summer when I found a dump truck on E-bay, and won it. A couple weeks later a customer who owed a significant amount on a restoration job offered a Cat D-3B dozer and trailer as payment. Then came a Komatsu PC-75 excavator, a tandem dump and a track loader, and I'm pretty well set. I would advise you to look on E-bay, you can find nice equipment far less than most private owners will sell for, and a fraction of what dealers want, especially on dump trucks. I would also give some thought to a dozer, and a mini-excavator over a loader-backhoe. I have gotten far more work for my dozer than anything else. Not sure why. Best of luck to you, and keep us informed!

[cat320]

I forgot to ask, what are your thoughts on 2 wheel vs. 4 wheel drive for a hoe?
Thanks
I would definatly get the 4x4 but like Steve you get around in 2wd I did and i have done jobs that were on hills or in low areas and never had a problem.As far as buying any equipment on ebay you don't know how or what kind of condition it is in especialy if it's not close buy it will be hard to inspect it .

[kamerad47]

woberlin. I glad you do good but you may be the exception! Most of these guys are landscapers on here that have machines to do there work & may get side jobs out of it. Their are very few what you would call excavating contractors here that i see, & there's nothing wrong with that, But you may have to do more then dig to survive!! There are too many guys working for DIRT CHEAP out there!! There was a guy on the job next to me that came in to dig footings for a small addition wth a pc-45 & a bocat 773 it took him 6 hours to dig & go down a small drive way & take out about 25 yds of dirt in a dumptruck. he did all that work for $475.00 ARE you f@#k nuts!!!! He was a landscaper. Sorry. these are the guys who ruin it for ligament excavating contractors

[cat320]

I tell you one thing there is no way that I would show up to a job with over a 100K in equipment and do that type of job for that kind of mony.The guy must be real soft even for a landscaper, or he will make it up on the other end relandscaping the yard.

[kamerad47]

there was no place to make up the $$$ & even if there was you still don't work that cheap !!!who kows someone may under cut you on the landscaping?? Doing work for cost will only cost you!!!!!!

[CascadeScaper]

We charge $95 an hour for our 303CR and $75 an hour for our 216 skid steer. We know everyone's trying to make money and so are we, doesn't make sense to charge less than what an excavation guy would charge. In landscaping, it's the same for us. I used to mow a lawn that I would charge about $30 a time to mow. Some guy is now mowing it for $10. What a joke. The other side of the story is, don't fall in love with your prices, it's good to stick to them, but you have to remember that there is always someone out there willing to work for less than half of what you would.

[kamerad47]

Do you get many takers on those prices?? I can rent a 320 cat for that!! About sicking to prices when do you say when????? I customer gave my name to a freind of his about doing some work for him, he told some prices this guy wants the prices that I give a customer all the time because he use me offten!!! what do you do!!! Once you go back you can never go foward!!!!!

[Cat420]

Those prices seem about right to me. Around here a skid steer is about $200 for 8 hrs + trucking, which ends up being $300-$350 or $43/hr for 8 hrs of use. A backhoe is a little more. We charge $75 an hour ($65 for people from our church) for our backhoe. You could rent a backhoe for $50-60 an hour, but get no operator, so I think we are more than reasonable.
That customer sure put you in a tough spot by mentioning the discount price that you give them. You can alway try to explain the situation,but some people just don't understand and will feel ripped off no matter what you.

[CascadeScaper]

Man, I don't know how you guys can make it. Going rate for skid steers is around $65, we charge $75, that's about $550 a day. You gotta put things into perspective, when plumbers are charging $75 an hour with about half the overhead, makes you wonder about your pricing. I mow lawns for $60 an hour and have only $7,000 invested. There's no way I would charge less than $75 an hour for a piece that cost me $20,000, plus a truck and trailer setup to get it to the job that costs at least $20,000 right there, plus fuel prices but that's another story.

[lamarbur]

aound my area, between Sturbridge MA and Woodstock CT, there are so many guys with machines, that it has gone way beyond cut throat.. As it is, more and more people are buying their own compact tractors with various attachments and this in itself drives prices charged to rock bottom. I am afraid this area is having to wait a "shake out". THose with skid steers and other equipment that work for near zero and all these brand new "expert" gentleman farmers with their toys. It will take some time, however, a lot will go buy the wayside..

[CascadeScaper]

Well, I think the reason we are getting away with these prices is because of the lack of competition. It's hard to explain the demographics of my town, but I will try my best. I live in a small town of barely 5,000 year round residents. We live at the bottom end of a 55 mile long lake and 80% of the economy of the town since the 80's has been the lake, a natural tourist attraction. I'm a 3rd generation farmer, we've been growing apples here since the 50's and many others have grown here as well, we grow the best in the world right out of our valley. Since 1998 the apple industry took a huge hit to the foreign market and about 80% of the orchards that were here are not anymore. With large parcels of land vacant, most of it view property, up for sale, land prices here have gone crazy. A 1/2 acre lot with 90 feet of waterfront is going for $1.7 million. With all this said, the building and construction going on in this town is absolutely incredible. Needless to say, my dad started the landscaping business 3 years ago and we've always had equipment to use for our jobs. But we do advertise outside services to contractors, homeowners, etc. Even in our small town, there is only one other person in town with a skid steer and we are the only company with a skid steer/excavator combination. I imagine that our prices would definately be lower if we actually had some competition, but I'd never stoop lower than about $55 an hour for a skid steer, ever. Since we are in a small community, we personally know all the contractors in town and they trust us to get the job done. They usually don't say a word about our pricing, usually because we don't tell them an hourly charge, usually look at the job, figure how long it will take then quote a price. There's usually no doubts to our abilities and I've been told that we got the job over someone else because the customers knows I'm running the equipment. And for being 18 that makes me feel pretty good knowing that I beat out some guy that's been in the dirt business for 10 years when I've only been doing it for about 3.

[kamerad47]

I wish I had no competition that why you can get those prices!!! What does cat get for a 303 rental where you are?? I can get a bobcat 331 for $300.00 from the dealer!!!

[CascadeScaper]

Cat 303CR for rental is about $300 a day if I remember correctly. The problem is that around here, it's alot of new houses going in, so the need for compact equipment is very slim. Most guys around here have a 120 sized machine and do all the excavation and don't need us as a sub. Like I also mentioned, the houses that are exisisting aren't very large in numbers, the town population is around 6,000, so we're not incredibly strong in numbers. If we had to make a living doing just equipment work and didn't do landscape installs we'd lose our shirts, we'd be out of business in a month. The only reason we're making it is because these machines get used at least 60 hours a month just working on our jobs and then whatever side jobs we can scrounge up, so we're making the payments. In the last month that we've had our 303 we've brought in 3 months worth of payments, not too bad. And it's really nice having a skid steer and an excavator, we get so much more work done with both machines running. On Tuesday this week I did a job that took me 6 hours of cleaning up and levelling an area for one of our customers. With 6 hours of work and some hauling we billed out $800, not to mention what our landscape crew billed out that day, probably somewhere around $800 or so. Any day that we have equipment working and the crew is working elsewhere we usually end up making a gross profit for the day of about $2,000. But we do have some bad days when I really wish that I was doing just excavation, because a 120 sized machine pulls alot more business than our 303, but right now we're in the landscaping business. Next year we're going to advertise a little more for excavation work and see where that takes us.