who makes the BEST dozer [Archive] - Heavy Equipment Forums

RonG

01-22-2006, 07:51 AM

It is a shame that John Deere does not have the exposure in australia that they have here because they could easily dominate the market with the smaller dozers.I know some of your work history Deas and it parallels mine in many repects having many years of experience but I will say that you would soon change your preferences if you could spend some time with the smaller John Deere dozers.
I too have run some of the larger JD 850s and up and while they are a nice dozer I do prefer the Cats.The Cat D6 is the just about the crossover point with me but anything smaller than that I would prefer the Deere.
John Deere equipment is designed by operators,at least that is the feeling that you soon acquire when running them,a dozer that can do anything you ask of it with style and grace,a dozer that does everything well.
Their rubber tired backhoes also fall into that catagory and they also sell a lot of them here for the same reason.Ron G

Deas Plant

01-22-2006, 10:09 AM

Hi, RonG.
You may well be right. As I mentioned above, I liked the 850 dozer and 750 loader when I operated them all those years ago. I have operated a couple of JD backhoes even further back for brief periods and didn't mind them either.

However, due to that lack of exposure that you mentioned, I'd guess that I'm not likely to get the chance to remedy my ignorance. I know of only about 3 contractors around the immediate area who are using Case machines - all one machine owner-operators and all small track loaders up to a 1450 Case - and NOT ONE JD dozer or track loader. Again, I don't think that the machines are entirely to blame for this. I suspect that the local distributor might have a bit to answer for too.

You can see a bit of JD stuff around golf courses and such like here and there are a fair number of JD ride-on lawn mowers around too. But that hasn't translated into anything heavier.

Wanna mail me one over for a trial run? If I like it, I get to keep it?

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

RonG

01-23-2006, 09:24 AM

Hi Deas,I wish I could send you one so you could share the joy that we feel when you are in tune with your steed and all is well with the world.I have said many times that their dozers challange you to be your best,they say to you.........show me your stuff.Ask of me something that I cannot do and you smile.You know the feeling and it is the old timers that can appreciate what I am saying now,the old guys that grew up with the rough edges and kind of took it all in stride,we are the ones that smile the loudest because we are the ones that gained the most.
I remember in the fairly recent past that my searches for used equipment on the net have produced a couple of hits of Hyundai dozers and it appears that they build the smaller John Deeres as they are just about identical to the 450/650 that John Deere sells on their lot,at least the ones from the late '90s on are a pretty close copy.
I have heard that Liebherr makes the larger dozers for them but if you can find an Hyundai H70 or H80 locally that would be pretty close to what we have here although the Hyundai uses the 3.9 Cummins in the adds I have seen it is possible that the JD engine might be a little more powerful.
I chat with another gentleman in Australia who has some of his own equipment (a D8,a JD self propelled scraper etc.) although he is a farmer primarily and he tells me that Case is popular there for the smaller dozers.
We have quite a few of them here as well and the older ones were a bad joke,the newer ones appear to have been built offshore and they are not too bad.I tell him if he ran a John Deere the first thing he would do with it would be to dig a hole to bury the Case in. LOL
Enough ramblin',I know I come on strong for the JD but they sell a lot of them here,I would not be surprised that in the weight class we are talking about they might be the market leader here so I have a lot of company it appears.
I hope your paths will cross someday.:))Ron G

Deas Plant

01-23-2006, 10:01 AM

Hi, RonG.
What you describe in your first paragraph is about word for word what I find with the Cat D5B 44X series wide guage dozer that I currently spend most of my time on. It has a Cat bull tilt blade, a non-factory 2-shank ripper that is about 25-30% heavier than the genuine Cat ripper and an almost ROPS with scrub sweeps.

It has the sweetest balance of any small dozer that I have ever operated and is very controllable as well. I have spent many happy hours on Cat D9G's and H's with similar 'feel' but this little D5B is at least right up there with 'em in that department. Most of my work is levelling house sites to +/- about 5/8 of an inch using a laser grade checker on the machine - still manual control of the blade. It's actually pretty easy to do.

On top of that, it puts its grunt on the ground far better than the Cat D10R that I recently 'played' with for 3 hours. Like the D9G's and H's, it will just keep on cutting and cutting while ever it can get the cutting edge in the ground. Just a great little machine.

Catchyalater.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

RonG

01-23-2006, 12:07 PM

I have many hours on a D6 of the same vintage as your D5B and it was a great machine.
The D8H and D8K had terrific balance as well,they could be dainty while perched atop a big rock if you asked them to,they always seemed to be at home and in control,just reassuring to operate.
I found the same characteristics in the larger high drives having spent quite a bit of time in a D8N with a 4 barrel ripper on it but I was dissapointed with The high drive D5's that I have been on,an M and an XL were both too nose heavy for my taste but otherwise were fine grading dozers.
The John Deere 650H LGP tops my list probably as the one best dozer I ever ran,it did everything well.Ron G

Deas Plant

01-24-2006, 06:41 AM

Hi, RonG.
I have operated the D6C and D6D versions as well. I found the D6C a better balanced machine than the D6D, which I always thought was a little light in the front. Both handled well and could put their grunt on the ground.

A D7F that I operated had the same disease as the D6D with the much lighter and faster 6 cyl motor in it. We cured that when we put wear plates on the blade before it went pushing Cat 621 scrapers. We welded two 4-foot square slabs of 1 inch thick steel to the front face of the blade instead of the more normal 1/2" or 5/8" plate. That made it a different machine.

Prior to adding the plate to the blade, it was easier to trim with the D7F when it had the tree pusher bar fitted to give it more weight up front.

Catchyalater.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

Deas Plant

01-24-2006, 06:44 AM

Hi, RonG.
I didn't know if it was going to post but the photo in the above post shows a tree pusher bar fitted to a Cat D8 14A series dozer - just in case you've never seen one before.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

RonG

01-24-2006, 12:02 PM

Thanks for the pic,I have seen pictures of a tree pusher but have never seen one in action.I don't even want to think about the trees I have pushed without even an ROPS on the dozer,talk about widow makers..........that is a feature that was way too long coming as it is law here now that dozers be equipped with ROPS.Ron G

Dozerboy

01-25-2006, 12:15 AM

I didn't even know they had tree pushers LOL we don't have a rops on our farm dozer and all of trees I've pushed over with...

That Deere 1050 was made by Liebherr.

I just learned in search who makes that Deere that Deere in comes in second to Cat in units(dozers) sold.

Tigerotor77W

01-25-2006, 05:39 PM

Dozerboy -- can you clarify your last sentence?

Also, I'm certainly not sure of the numbers, but although Deere may come second in pure number of units, Komatsu is still Cat's biggest global competitor. Deere simply doesn't [yet] have the global presence that Komatsu has developed. The small units appear to make up for it, if your source is reliable, however.

Dozerboy

01-25-2006, 08:18 PM

Basically the press release said what you just said. Deere in second in the # of sold dozers.

Deas Plant

01-25-2006, 08:53 PM

Hi, RonG and Dozerboy.
Way back in prehistoric times - when I was still going to school - you didn't see many dozers around the agricultural areas of DownUnder without tree pushers. I see less of them these days and I think it is largely due to the increase in mounted rippers that has made it so much easier to break the roots of bigger trees. Bigger, more powerful dozers would be another factor in this.

The biggest tree pusher I ever saw was 32 feet long and was fitted to a Cat D9E dozer in the big timber country in the South-west of Western Australia. That dozer was one of a pair that was used chain heavy timber, often with the aid of a Cat D8 'chaser' dozer, also fitted with a tree pusher, whose job it was to take out any trees that stopped the chain.

Operating a 'chaser' dozer has to one of the worst jobs in all of 'dozerdom'. You are continually weaving between or climbing over fallen trees while chasing the chain and you are expected to be right there at the offending tree within seconds of it stopping the chain, if not before.

I am attaching more photos of tree pushers and of the canopies that various people designed for protection before there were ROPS/FOPS. In the photo of the D9G with canopy, someone has welded a small tree pusher to the front of the blade.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

Squizzy246B

01-26-2006, 01:15 AM

The biggest tree pusher I ever saw was 32 feet long and was fitted to a Cat D9E dozer in the big timber country in the South-west of Western Australia. That dozer was one of a pair that was used chain heavy timber, often with the aid of a Cat D8 'chaser' dozer, also fitted with a tree pusher, whose job it was to take out any trees that stopped the chain.

Deas, that really takes me back to childhood. Grew up in the SW of Wait Awhile and all the dozers we used for clearing had the pushers. I remember clearly watching a D7 push over huge paperbarks in swamp country on our farm (we call it Willgee) and the rather annoyed bees out of the tree attacking the driver till he ran for his life.

Before clearing we selected the best Jarrah for fence posts. Down they came with a McCulloch and our Cat crawler snigged them out before the dozers came through. The rest of those beautiful timbers got burnt....how things have changed. I still have my grandfathers old Cant hook...he didn't have any Cat crawlers though...only a couple of Bullocks.

Deas Plant

01-26-2006, 04:14 AM

Hi, Squizzy246B.
Takes me back a while too. I last lived in Albany in 1967 - 38 years ago - 2 years after I started operating full-time for a crust.

Back when I was going to school in Denmark, 34 miles West of Albany, Western Australia for our 'otherplace' readers, the best contractors had Cat gear, mainly D7's, and the 'others' had mostly Internationals, mainly TD18's.

Timber canopies and tree pushers were standard equipment although no machine manufacturer supplied them and they were all after-market and cable reined supreme on the bigger machines.

The local timber mill, Whittakers, had a Cat D6 8U cable dozer with a Hyster logging winch and an RD6 bare tractor as their bush logging tractors. If a farmer had a Cat D4 dozer, he was really well equipped for his clearing and earthmoving needs.

My father had a Cat 22 crawler with a windlass-controlled blade on our dairy farm at Denmark and that was the first tractor I ever drove/aimed/operated. It could handle wattle scrub and light re-growth without much trouble but the local timber was little beyond it. There have been a few different machines since then.

Memories, huh?

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

Squizzy246B

01-26-2006, 04:45 AM

Deas, Whittakers is still there. Denmark has changed a bit though...no more D7's just tourists :)

Deas Plant

01-26-2006, 05:16 AM

Hi, Squizzy.
I was past where Whittakers old mill used to be in Denmark in 2001 and it was a big empty. I heard that Bunnings bought them out and later closed the mill down. Denmark felt it 'cos the mill employed quite a few people and they no longer had jobs.

When I was last there, I visited the man who used to drive their main log truck back when I was going to school. In those days, he had a farm straight over the road from ours about 8 miles West of Denmark, drove the log truck during the week and worked the farm at weekends. He finished up as bush boss before the mill closed down and now lives in retirement less than two miles from the old mill site.

Losing the railway line back in the late 1950's would not have helped the mill's viability any. It didn't help Denmark or any of the settlements West of there at all either.

If it's not a rude question, what part of the South-west did you come from?
My family moved to Denmark from Bruce Rock in March, 1954.

Catchyalater.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

Squizzy246B

01-26-2006, 08:59 AM

Deas, I grew up on a farm half way between Busselton and Margaret River. If you have had one of Vasse Felix or Cullens good red wines...Dr Cullen delivered me :) . We grew spuds, sheep and beef cattle.

Most of my family (both Mum & Dads sides) come from the wheatbelt. Bruce Rock, Bonnie Rock, Muckinbudin, still got family at Narrogin and some relo's at Lake Grace.

Dozerboy

01-27-2006, 06:32 PM

Deas, Thanks for the pics I love hearing how things where done in the past.

D10N

01-31-2006, 11:19 AM

On top of that, it puts its grunt on the ground far better than the Cat D10R that I recently 'played' with for 3 hours.

I hear you there - 10R's are too light in the tail end for much of anything outside of pioneering. They make you work 5 times as hard to hog a berm or pile off the edge as a 10N or 10T.

I do like the clutches on a 10R though, and although unneccessary, I like playing with all the "productivity" goodies on the VIDS.

Jim O

03-01-2006, 03:12 PM

I am kind of under the same dilemma; I work a power station where we push a lot of coal with a 31 yd blade. Right now we have a 92 D8N with around 36k - 40k hours (~3k+/yr). We're looking to purchase a new equivalent (size) machine. Right off the bat I was going for the Cat D8T with the same specs, typically heard that Cat is the dozer for longevity. The question was posed why not one of the other brands? Their probably less $$, so I started to gather info on the JD 1050C, Dressta TD-25M and the Komatsu D155 for comparison. I’ve been searching the web for any comparisons and /or reliability data to lead us one way or the other. Does anyone now of these types of sights (like consumer report)? Or any feedback one way or the other.
The D8N we have now has done us well, typically engine or transmission rebuild around every 9,000 hours. Thank You. Jim O

rino1494

03-01-2006, 06:51 PM

We've been running case dozers for 30 years. They are overall a very well built machine and the basic design hasn't changed since we've been using them. We have a old Case 450 from the 60's with around 25,000 hrs on it that I just laid down 3,000 ton of modified for a development The paving contractor came and just touched it up with the grader without using more material. We recently just stripped it down and re-painted it. I'll post pics in a couple days.

Tigerotor77W

03-01-2006, 07:20 PM

9420pullpan

03-01-2006, 07:34 PM

Definately go with a D8T b/c Cat has the best dozer from D6 and up...

777

CascadeScaper

03-02-2006, 03:31 AM

I read an article in Excavation and Grading Contractor magazine about doing dozer+pan and scaper+dozer combos. They found the 1050C's to be very nice for doing alot of back and forth of spreading. I can't recall if they were pulling pans with the 1050's or not, might have left the D8's for that, but overall they liked the hydro tranny vs. a standard clutch/brake combo. Apparently they hold up better and require less maintenance. As mentioned, it's tough to beat a D8T. I like the R's a little better, but the T's are nice as well.

JimBruce42

03-02-2006, 08:30 AM

, ...but overall they liked the hydro tranny vs. a standard clutch/brake combo... .

:confused: I thought that Cat's larger High final drive dozer's (such as the 8's) used a differential gearing for their steering, I know smaller ones like the D5n still use steering clutch/brakes, so am I wrong?:beatsme

On a different, I read an article in a Deere review pdf.( http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/media/dmag/101CU_dmag_www.pdf ) where a company was using Deere 1050's as their pan pullers. Well it's snowing, no school for me... back to bed:sleeping

-Jim

CascadeScaper

03-03-2006, 12:06 AM

Jim, you are correct, the D8's are diff. steer. I'm not 100% sure what the difference between Cat and Deere's 1050C are, but it sounded like the Deere system lasted longer in the words of one contractor, who knows. Maybe the company was running older D8's? They didn't say so it's hard to tell what they were comparing the 1050C's to, maybe older Deere machines? Hard to say.

JimBruce42

03-03-2006, 10:28 AM

Thanks cascade. It's nice to know I have learned a few things in school:yup

Tigerotor77W

03-03-2006, 01:02 PM

:confused: I thought that Cat's larger High final drive dozer's (such as the 8's) used a differential gearing for their steering, I know smaller ones like the D5n still use steering clutch/brakes, so am I wrong?:beatsme

On a different, I read an article in a Deere review pdf.( http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/media/dmag/101CU_dmag_www.pdf ) where a company was using Deere 1050's as their pan pullers. Well it's snowing, no school for me... back to bed:sleeping

-Jim

Ryan went back to D8Ts... their's was a case example of where the 1050C was not holding up.

And as for the 1050C -- it's hystat, like the rest of the Deere line.

CascadeScaper

03-04-2006, 05:42 PM

Tiger, is the hystat system on the 1050C still controlled by a single joystick in the left hand? Maybe their re-knob operators couldn't run a tiller bar :bouncegri

Tigerotor77W

03-04-2006, 10:14 PM

Yup, single joystick in the left-hand.

I spoke to an operator who commented that in rough terrain, it became difficult to steer the machine in a straight line because the control requires constant adjustment (like on a skid steer, as opposed to the detent position of small dozers of Deere and Cat hystats).

As for that tiller bar... I dunno... it certainly has its advantanges, but marketing really distorts its values (it seems).

Ford LT-9000

03-04-2006, 10:27 PM

The Cats with the high walker tracks with the final drive up and out of the muck and gravel is better. The Cat track skidders all come standard with high walker tracks.

The tiller steer is to reduce operator fatique which is a must when your pushing on a hillside. At one of the local gravel mine where they are pushing material over a hill you need good control. I wish I had a picture of a cat pushing on the hill its pretty scary looking as your pushing material over a 60-70' drop off for the loaders at the bottom to scoop up the material and cart it off to the crusher.

A long time cat skinner told me when your pushing on the hillside and you go to far you just ride it out the Cat will stay on its tracks sliding down the hill like a tobogan.

Dozerboy

03-06-2006, 01:30 AM

I demoed a 1050 about 2 years ago and IMO it was a POS compared to the D8R I was running and I'm not a big Cat fan. It rode ruff (steering was a problem), and you almost need ear plugs inside the cab with that hystat wine. After about two weeks I told the boss to have Deere come pick it up I wouldn't spend another day it in.

Deas Plant

03-06-2006, 04:53 AM

Hi, Ford LT-9000.
Riding a dozer over a drop/hillside is all very well and good IF you have a continuous ramp all the way down and can take a blade of dirt with you. In that situation, I would agree with your old cat-skinner 'cos I've done it many times myself.

However, you mentioned that in your application you have loaders taking the material away from the bottom. This has the potential for disaster if you go over the edge, especially if the loaders have undercut the material being pushed over to any extent.

If you have ANY vertical or near-vertical wall on that face, especially at the top, you have the potential for an end-over-end. If the vertical section is at the bottom, i.e. undercut by the loaders, you also have the potential for a slip situation and when the ground that you are trying to stand or drive on is itself moving, you have NO control over your machine.

Thanks but I'll try to stay on top if there is any vertical involved.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

tuney443

03-28-2006, 09:44 PM

Well,anyway,to partially answer the original question--the older John Deeres--350's to 550's in my opinion are the best with the shuttle tranny w/reverser.I've had 3 over the years,my 450D will out-produce newer Cats and Komatsus.The balance of the rig is unbelievable,either side-sloping or up and down.I'll try to post some cute pics of me pushing a JD self-loading scraper with my 450C.You just can't kill these things.:thumbsup

16H

04-08-2006, 09:53 PM

The place I work has 14 bulldozers all Cats with 6 more coming we had komatsu dozers but they were unreliable and ruff, the 475s were very good for bulk pushing but horrible to trim or clean up for the excavators, I think anything over a D6 is Cat teritory:notworthy

Wulf

04-09-2006, 12:08 AM

16H

04-09-2006, 06:19 AM

we had 2 D475 series2 with u blades good for bulk but not much else!!

Wulf

04-09-2006, 09:00 AM

we had 2 D475 series2 with u blades good for bulk but not much else!!

Komatsu stopped making the series 2 about eight years ago. It's series 5 now and they are a tad different.

Tigerotor77W

04-09-2006, 10:43 AM

Wulf, are you in the Oilsands region yourself?

16H

04-15-2006, 10:26 PM

We had a 475XT on trial for a little while recently I didnt spend much time on it but the old 475s have been sold off to make way for D11Rs

alextrunz

04-18-2006, 10:59 PM

Guys do you remember FiatAllis 31 and 41 dozers? A lot of power for a small amount!
As for Komatsu vs CAT - this discussion may last forever. I suppose that today's 375 and 475 machines are much better than older models. But CAT also do not waisting the time - for the advantage of all of us!

D10N

04-19-2006, 09:31 AM

The Fiat Allis were a good machine, very good quality of build. But for a big machine, Cat has no peers. The big Komatsus are great, for the first 6 months are so, then their disposable construction kicks in, and availability goes straight down the drain. Last mine I worked at with 475's had about a 30% availability compared to 80% on the Cats.

Deas Plant

04-19-2006, 11:49 AM

Hi, D10N.
I don't want to bust any bubbles here but the AC HD41 didn't stack up too well in the 'well-built' department 'cos they 'spat' a lot of final drives and track gear. The Fiat-Allis 41B was not a whole lot better. That is why the F-A 31 came to be. They de-rated the 41B to try to keep it together.

I will give you that HD41 and 41B could sure move dirt, in large lumps even - - - WHEN they were running - - - AND they could rip. But from what I saw of them, the Cat D9's tended to make up a lot of ground while the HD41's and 41B's were in the recovery ward.

VERY few of them came into Australia for the above reasons.

You have a wondeful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

Dozerboy

01-04-2007, 11:28 PM

I got stuck on a 1050 again been a few days now and I still hate them. Another thing I remembered when the fuel guy showed up they really suck it down 150 gals in a 10hr. day, but I was work it hard at least.

t3chw00di

01-11-2007, 01:29 AM

I have to agree with the majority and say that cat is the overall winner.

Komatsu dozers are nice for a while when they are new, but they don't seem to stand up as well as cat. I've ran a few D61's and my main beef with them is that they don't steer once they are have a few hours on them. We've spent thousands replacing pumps and valves etc, and it still hasn't fixed them. I like their fast hydraulics. The cabs are too tight and there is not much storage area. I have a lunch kit and a 2 liter thermos (which I hate to have jammed behind the seat) The seats wear out fast and need replacing once in a while. They tend to start wabbling sideways. And the air flow (heater and A/C) seems to get restricted till there is hardly any.

Deere has made pretty nice dozers and I've ran 750's off and on for the past 8 years. The 750C series 2 is my favorite I think. I love the hydrostatic drive. No shifting and no need to use a brake. Fast hydraulics also. A lot of guys think the hydraulics are too fast, but after getting used to them, cat hydraulics are way too slow :thumbsup
This past spring I was graced with a new 750J, or so I thought...
There are some things I like better about the J over the C. The ability to set shift/decelerator/aggressiveness response in the computer is really nice. But I have 2 major beefs with the 750J. First of all is the undercarriage. I work on a lot of slopes building roads and subdivisions and when I'm on a fairly steep slope (steeper than a 3:1) the tracks try to fall off. Seems to us that the rollers don't have enough of a lip to hold the tracks on properly. They use the same rock guards as the C's use. It's a real pain when you are trying to trim something up and the tracks start grinding etc. I cut a 15 meter backslope that was 1.75:1 and it took me many tries more passes than it should have to get it looking decent. (Ask blademan. He seen me on that slope and was cringing) :)
My other major beef with them is that the dozer doesn't have near enough tilt. When trying to trim up around approaches and culverts it's impossible to get the bottom side of your blade low enough without cutting in on the top side. If you compare it to a cat D6N or D6R, the cat has at least 50% more tilt.
We have at least 3 of the J's that I know about......maybe more. We have also had lots of final drive probs with them. 4 final drives between them have been replaced in this past year, mine being in the dealer shop getting one done as I type this. Appears the seal just inside the sprocket went and dumped out the oil.
The 850's I really like. They have enough weight that they can dig, hold a load ,and turn better with a load on than the 750's.
The 950 and above I would stay away from. I only demo'd a 950 for a couple of hours and I really can't tell/remember what I didn't like about it, but it didn't feel right.
I also ran a 650H for a couple of months and to be honest I grew to hate it. First of all it's just too small for what we do. A lot of time we work in wet conditions and it just doesn't have enough weight/traction to push mud. It's also very rough riding. The reason is that there is no hardbar. The track frames are mounted solid to the mainframe and can't move independently so you feel every little bump.

From an operator comfort point of view I have to go with cat. They are definately the smoothest riding dozer and the 6N's have the best visibility I've seen so far. Rumour has it that I'm getting a new D6 (not sure if it'll be an N or R) this year with a GPS grade control system in it. I'm definately looking forward to that, but I'm not sure if it will make me a better operator or worse. I've heard stories about loosing your touch if you let it do all the fine work. I hope cat's slower hydraulics can keep up. haha

Anyways, sorry if I've bored you guys. Happy new year and all that.
t3ch :cool:

farm_boy

01-12-2007, 12:54 AM

The 950 and above I would stay away from. I only demo'd a 950 for a couple of hours and I really can't tell/remember what I didn't like about it, but it didn't feel right.
t3ch :cool:

If you demo'ed a 950C, you should give the new 950J a shot if you get the chance. I tried a 950C and thought the same thing as you. This fall I got the change to run a 950J and there was a huge difference between the two. Deere really does listen to operators in the changes they make in their machines. This J was so quiet I kept reaching over to make sure the throttle was wide open. The ride was better than the C and the controls were like the 650H. They also canted the seat like the Cat. This is a ton better than the straight seat that the 950C had.

CM1995

01-21-2007, 06:05 PM

Tigerotor77W

01-21-2007, 06:16 PM

If you demo'ed a 950C, you should give the new 950J a shot if you get the chance. I tried a 950C and thought the same thing as you. This fall I got the change to run a 950J and there was a huge difference between the two. Deere really does listen to operators in the changes they make in their machines. This J was so quiet I kept reaching over to make sure the throttle was wide open. The ride was better than the C and the controls were like the 650H. They also canted the seat like the Cat. This is a ton better than the straight seat that the 950C had.

How much of Deere's design is Liebherr and how much is Deere? (more out of curiosity than to say that Deere doesn't design those dozers)

Wulf

01-21-2007, 10:21 PM

No other manufacturer can touch a cat. Recently we demo'd a komastajunk D65 and a D6RXW. There is not even a close comparision between the two although the D65 is "the same size as a D6R". With about 300 hrs on the komatsu the blade bushings are sloppy and the tractor operates like a cat with 6k plus hours on it. The D6RXW is an awsome tractor for a mid size dozer. Good power, great balance and totes a ripper well.

Also demo'd a D41, which is also a POS- wouldn't trade our D5G for it.
I have not had the chance to run many JD dozers. I think they make a good small dozer but our dealership is not reliable.

I don't believe that there is so big a gulf between the manufacturers as you make out. The D65EX-15 gives the six a run for its money along with the updated D41E-6. It's great for the end-user that both companies are continuously improving their products and keeping them competitive. Caterpillar dozers have some advantages and disadvantages over Komatsu dozers but there is no way either of them could be 'junk or a 'POS" and still be in the positions that they are.

Deas Plant

01-25-2007, 06:55 AM

Hi, Wulf.
The 'Gap' exists on several levels, covering ALL aspects of owning and operating a 'dozer. There are considerations like initial purchase price, running costs, service and spares availability, working life before major repairs/re-builds, overall performance, re-sale value and, lastly, how the beast is to operate.

Now you may note, if you have your readings 'ears' switched on, that I have put the main topic of this thread LAST. That is for a very good reason. It is VERY often the last thing that major companies consider when purchasing machinery. Almost always with major companies, ALL the others come before considering what the people who have to operate them may think of them. This is 'cos 'bean counters' get to have the main say in such things.

Now in some (rare) cases, the 'Kummagutsa' machine will actually out-perform the Cat equivalent and, dedicated Cat lover that I am, even I will admit that fact. HOW-WEVVER, where it all comes undone for the Brand-X rigs is in the service life before major re-builds and the availability of service and spares. The initial service life AND the service life between re-builds for the Kummagutsas seems to be only about 2/3 of the Cat service life and spares seem to be made out of everything from 'difficult-to-get-ium' right through to 'un-obtainium'. On top of that, here in South-east Queensland at least, asking the dealer/distributor for service 'yesterday' usually elicits responses ranging from subdued mirth to gales of laughter and ROFLMAO. Not quite what the concerned customer really wants to hear.

I haven't made a study of purchase price comparisons but I'd be surprised if Kummagutsa wasn't generally a little cheaper than the 'Genuine Ar-tickle'. This would the most appealing aspect for the 'bean counters'.

Believe me, 'The Gap' does exist, on many levels.

Now, on a slightly different note, the company that I work for hires their machines to quarries and mines and also does contract work for the same and other clients. One of our clients, a major quarry chain, owns the quarry where I spend most of my working hours. In this quarry, they have two sales loaders, a Kummagutsa WA500 and a Cat 980G, fitted with stick steering. Now we come to the 'interesting bit'. The operators are NOT, repeat N-O-T, allowed to use the stick steering to load trucks. The company seems to think there is too much risk of trucks being damaged while using the stick steering. I have NEVER heard of any other company with this way of thinking. I have used stick steering and I LOVE it.

farm_boy

01-30-2007, 07:42 PM

Cat 980G, fitted with stick steering.

DP....do you have or can get pictures of the 980G with Stick steering? I have never seen a 980G/H with Stick steering. Every 980G/H I have seen have been equipped with Command Control.

komatsukid

01-30-2007, 11:17 PM

Squizzy246B

01-31-2007, 08:53 AM

I dont know too much about dozers, but when you start talking about loaders thats my bag of chips. I have alot of time in 980gs and wa500-3 loaders. from my professional point of view KOMATSU builds a transmission and torque converter that will out preform cat hands down. We have put this to the test countless times, running the two loaders against one another. In a natural bank with a soft footing it is MUCH easier to pull full buckets out of a bank with out spinning the wheels with the KOMATSU. We feed most of our plants on flat ground, So climbing a grade is not a factor in our pits, but a KOMATSU wa 500-3 will out run all of our Cat machines hands down on flat ground. As to say "Kummagutsa" is a "JUNK" machine, Thats B.S.

komatsukid - Reading carefully I don't see that anybody is catergorically saying the Komatapillar is "Junk"...more that the longevity is questioned. Anyways...your view and experience is interesting because we are currently running a 950 sized Komatsu loader, pretty late model, only has 3000 hours. It's got a lot of slop in the pins and wobbles about.

The guy running it is considered by many in the industry to be one of the best operators around. He has found digging from a face on soft ground to be extremely difficult...the wheelspin is practically uncontrollable with the hydrostatic transmission...the thing just wants to get stuck in. A 950G working nearby was also having wheelspin problems but not as bad as the Komatapillar. Both the operators got to talking (both old hands) and both agreed the old loaders (less power) were better in these (soft ground)circumstances.....and that tyres were a huge factor.

I wouldn't take the nicknames afforded to some machinery down her to heart....Australians are pretty apt at assigning tags to things...complimentary and otherwise:rolleyes: .

I have to tell you though...Komatsu spare parts have been a nightmare down here...that said...there is a lot of shiny new Komatapillars out and about these days.....Its just unlikely I will be driving one...until they prove as durable as other brands.

Squizzy246B

01-31-2007, 09:42 AM

Oh..and I thought this was a dozer thread:rolleyes: Damn Hijackers:cool: Oh..and I picked up on the Komatsajunk comment too...sorry about that.

CM1995

01-31-2007, 09:55 AM

I think any operator worth his salt will tell you that a Cat dozer is a superior machine to anything Komatsu offers - dozer wise. Now when it comes to hoes komatsu is a tight runner. But put a D65 against a D6R and there really is no comparison. I know of a few coal mines around here that went with Komatsu and changed to cat after 3k hours because the Komatsu's were "just falling apart".

Take for instance how you access the transmission. The Cat slides out the rear end of the tractor without much effort for maintenance. The Komatsu's cab has to be taken off the machine.

We currently have a D65 on rent working next to a D6R. Both machines have about 300 hours on them. The Komatsu has a hydraulic leak and the blade pins and bushings are already sloppy. The Cat runs like it should - a brand new tractor.:thumbsup

My Komatsu salesman will not even try to sell me a Komatsu dozer. His quote "Komatsu has made great strides in their dozers but Cat still has them beat". (Everybody take that as you will - that is what he told me.)

Komatsu Hoes are good machines. We demo'ed a PC300 and a Cat 325D and I know that these machines are slightly different in class size, the cat being smaller but I was impressed with the 300. It was just a little to big and more $$$ than the Cat so we went with the Cat. I definetly see a Komatsu hoe in our future but life is to short to own the current model of Komatsu dozers or anything made by Terex.

Hjolli

01-31-2007, 06:21 PM

The best dozer I ever drove in terms of balance was probably a CAT D7E from 1968. With a U-blade and ripper. The the D7F with a ligter engine was inferior.
I wonder why I don´t see more dozers this size with U-blades. Got better balance and production that way. Tried a new Komatsu D85 with SU balde recently, very nimble but with an SU blade. Felt the machine was too powerful for that small blade.

As for the D6 class, the D6R inmhop is really superior, the D65 really falls apart in comparison

Hjolli

DR RPM

01-31-2007, 08:46 PM

The D7E had the best sound of any dozer when that 4 cylinder was working hard. The 7F weakling sounded sick right out of the box.:bash

Ford LT-9000

01-31-2007, 09:56 PM

The gravel mine where 2 of my relatives work is a good test ground for Komatsu they have tried Komatsu loaders and dozers they fell apart too quick they went back to Cat it was cheaper in the long run. They have Komatsu articulated trucks they are not standing up they will be gone pretty soon too. I imagine they will be replaced with Volvos.

I know the Komatsu mechanic and he said to me Komatsu makes better excavators than anything else. There is quite a few Komatsu excavators around now.

farm_boy

02-01-2007, 06:23 PM

Hjolli.....if you like u-blades....here is one for ya. This was at a sand and gravel pit I was at recently. 1050C with a u-blade.

Hjolli

02-01-2007, 07:38 PM

Thanks a lot Farm Boy. That would be a D8 class isn´t it?

The last dozer 'I drove ( I haven´t been in this business for a couple of yrs now) was a D9L w. high drive. Although 30 yrs old and having several leaks it sure could push with its huge U-blade and single-shank ripper. I would cut thousands of tons of rock with it.

Hjolli

Dozerboy

02-01-2007, 09:15 PM

Ya that is comparable to a D8

Deas Plant

02-02-2007, 09:37 AM

Hi, Hjolli.
Why don't you see more U-blades? Well, for one thing, they are a bit harder on the front end of the undercarriage than a semi-U or straight blade because of the extra weight up front. They also don't dig near as well in harder going and they are an absolute PITA in ripped or shot rock because rocks get under the angled sections and hold the blade out of the cut. It is also harder to turn a loaded U-blade than a loaded straight blade. Not that you ought to be trying to turn any loaded blade but sometimes needs must and you do try to turn it.

U-blades are great for what they were designed for, moving large quantities of loose or stockpiled material relativley cheaply. They were never designed for breakout work and they are an absolute mongrel of a thing when it comes to push-loading scrapers/pans.

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

Hjolli

02-04-2007, 07:15 PM

Hi D.P.

Some of the first modern dozers in Iceland (in the early 60's were Cat D7E wiht U-blades. They clearly proved to be much more productive than the 50's
generation machines with angeling blades they replaced. So much more that now everybody had to have machines with U-blades. Later came also D8 and D9's, all with the same kind of blade. Almost of all the bigger machines were widely used in rock. I found that the U-blade was better at holding on to boulders and for general stockpiling. I also found the wide blade good for leveling and you could almost see the corners of the blade.

The drawback was that, as you point out the blades were very heavy and by time the machines had to have braces welded on to their noses as they were almost breaking off.

Hjolli

Dozer575

03-02-2007, 12:33 PM

The top 3 big Komatsu's are the best.
Maybe someday Cat will build a large dozer again.

Deas Plant

03-03-2007, 01:25 AM

Hi, Dozer 575.
You are entitled to your opinion and I would defend your right to have it - even though I don't agree with it. I have operated Kummagutsa wheel and track loaders, crawler dozers, excavators and one of their graders too so I faintly suspect that I may have basis for my opinion.

Their excavators would have wanted to improve from when I ran them because Kato excavators with twice and 3 times the Kummagutsa's hours were beating the pants off the Kummagutsas.

I ran 41S, 55S, 57S and 75S 'tractor shovels' and the only one that came even close to its Cat counterpart was the 57S. And even that didn't last like the Cat 955s. The 75S was a powerful brute of a machine for its size but, in any long-term contest over say 2 or 3 years, I'd back a a Cat 977 to do more work 'cos it would have far higher availability.

I did enjoy running the Kummagutsa GD825 grader and I suspect that it would have outworked a Cat 16G - in the short term. I was only on it for a couple of months so I don't know how it would have lasted in comparison with the Cat 16G - which I DO KNOW has a good reputation for lasting.

The Kummagutsa wheel loaders that I operated, an older WA600 and near new WA480 and WA500 models, all had the same idiotic fault with their bucket linkage. When the bucket leveller activated to stop the bucket rolling back from the dump position, the bucket itself was still slanted down about 30-40 degrees. If you were still over the truck and reversing away, this could have slightly disastrous results.

The WA600 had 30,000 frame hours on it, was on its second engine (Second ENGINE - NOT second rebuild. Each engine had had a rebuild as well.), second torque converter and third transmission. The MAJOR quarry chain that owns them HAD a deal with Kummagutsa to buy all Kummagutsa plant. I was told a couple of days ago that they have told the little yellow men where to go and will be buying all Cat from now on.

Kummagutsa don't build a bad dozer - for about the first 2,000 hours. Then it's all downhill and tears from there. If you don't believe it, I'll just ask you to show me a major mining company or construction contractor that is buying whole fleets of Kummagutsa gear in preference to Cat. If you're still in doubt, check out the awaiting delivery time for any Kummagutsa machine and its Cat equivalent.

There are not nearly as many people questioning the performance of the Kummagutsa machines as there are people questioning their longevity and long-term viability. Cats have the runs on the board there and Kummgutsa still has to catch them - after FORTY PLUS years of TRYING.

F'rinstance, how many Kummagutsas do you know of that were built from 1925 to 1930 and are STILL running like quite a number of Cat Sixtys around the world.

I don't know how many D575A dozers have been brought into the 'U-ninety States' but I'll make a little bet with you. There is a LOT higher PERCENTAGE of all the D11's sold in the U.S. still running than there is of the
D575's.

Over to you.

Wulf

03-03-2007, 06:59 AM

The Kummagutsa wheel loaders that I operated, an older WA600 and near new WA480 and WA500 models, all had the same idiotic fault with their bucket linkage. When the bucket leveller activated to stop the bucket rolling back from the dump position, the bucket itself was still slanted down about 30-40 degrees. If you were still over the truck and reversing away, this could have slightly disastrous results. Over to you.

Deas... I don't understand that statement because the bucket positioner on any of those loaders is adjustable.
It works on a proximity switch and you can set the return to dig angle to wherever you want it.

Deas Plant

03-03-2007, 08:03 AM

Hi, Wulf.
Quote:
"Deas... I don't understand that statement because the bucket positioner on any of those loaders is adjustable.
It works on a proximity switch and you can set the return to dig angle to wherever you want it." Unquote.

O.K., so I'll try to make it a little clearer. The proximity switch adjustment IS set so that the bucket IS level when on the ground. It can ONLY be in one position, give or take a millimetre or two, for that to happen.

The parallel linkage on these machines was/is so designed that when the bucket is at the CORRECT digging angle ON THE GROUND and you raise it up to dumping height, the bucket itself is then tipped downward about 30-40 degrees.

This is a linkage design stuff-up and has absolutely nothing to with the cut-out itself. If you re-set the cut-out so that it stops the bucket roll-back at level when raised to truck loading height, you will find that it is tipped back by about the same 30-40 degrees on the ground when you want to dig another bucket.

There is no way around this situation except a complete re-design of the parallel linkage so that bucket level on the ground is at least bucket level or even tipped back a bit at truck loading height. If Cat can do it, then I would think that other manufacturers ought to be able to imitate the feat -- IF they are smart enough to wake up to the need for it.

What happens with Kummagutsa loaders is that when the bucket leveller trips over the truck, you have to grab the control lever, tip the bucket back further, clear the truck, tip the bucket forward again and then pull the lever back and let the bucket re-set itself again. Can you see the wasted effort in that? I sure can but then I've been there and done that and watched other very good operators having the same problem with the same machines.

I have even had one very good operator who had not operated these Kummagutsa loaders ask me why these same loader operators worked their buckets the way they did. He expressed the same disgust that I have when I told him why it was so.

I hope this clarifies the matter for you.

Lashlander

03-03-2007, 12:14 PM

The top 3 big Komatsu's are the best.
Maybe someday Cat will build a large dozer again.

:lmao Pretty simple statement to make. What do you have to back it up?

This is why I have so much respect for Deas Plant, he has strong opinions on things but he backs them up. :salute

Deas Plant

03-03-2007, 05:40 PM

Hi, Lashlander.
Thank you for that kind comment, Lashlander. Coming from you, it speaks heaps to me 'cos your posts always make sense too.

Thanks again.

Dozer575

03-03-2007, 05:46 PM

I have seen posts on other popular websites for equipment written by a guy named Ozdozer, I noticed he is on this one too. Many times he has said how good the Komatsu line of dozers is, especially the D375 his opinion seems to be well respected. When I started out dozing, just the opposite of what Deas says was true. The Cat crap always broke down, but the Komatsu kept running. I have spent many hours on the D375, as well as some of the tirangle cats, I have had more problems on those cats with tracks comming off that rear roller, transmission problems and electrical problems and the Komatsu was a fairly old series.

Dozer575

03-03-2007, 06:28 PM

http://www.komatsuamerica.com/MiningJobStory1.asp

There are alot of mining companys that use Komatsu dozers, I know that it was the prefered dozer in Austrailia for chain dragging land clearing. I heard stories of the the chain pulling the cat machines apart.

Squizzy246B

03-03-2007, 06:45 PM

There are alot of mining companys that use Komatsu dozers,

Yep, they keep them for Company anodes.

I know that it was the prefered dozer in Austrailia for chain dragging land clearing. I heard stories of the the chain pulling the cat machines apart.

I don't know where you are getting this from....but it is nor has been the case here. Millions of acres chained with 80% Cats...couple of 6's or 7's with an 8 chaser. There was more AC dozers around than Komatsu.

Deas Plant

03-03-2007, 07:15 PM

Hi, Dozer575.
I have met OzDozer and have the greatest of respect for him in many areas, including 'Champeen' gear-stick breaker - - - - and 'Champeen' remover/repairer/re-installer of said broken gear-stick. An all-round good bloke and a fount of knowledge on matters relating to economical moving of earth and operating of machines that perform this work. (I might add that the broken gear stick was cracked about 2/3 of the way through before OzDozer finally delivered the 'coup de grace'. He just happened to be the poor unfortunate person operating the machine at the time.)

And, Yes, I do remember him making some comments about Kummagutsa D375dozers being good machines. I DON"T remember him making the same claims for the 475 and 575.

Now OzDozer may have had some good experiences with D375's and I don't doubt him for a moment BUT one model does not a good line of dozers make and the best dozer, or any machine, in the world can be very effectively killed off by a lack of service.

Many of our Australian coal mines WERE buying D475's in preference to D11's some 10 years ago. This trend seems to have completely reversed because of the limited longevity factor and the lack of service when the longevity factor rears it sugly head.

One of Australia's major contracting/construction companies (I'm talking international here.) back in the early-1990's started buying the 'blue-n-yeller' machines 'cos they couldn't get the 'almost-all-yeller' ones when they wanted them. Yer wouldn't want to know, that company doesn't do THAT any more. I wonder why????????

You mention the tracks coming off the rear 'rollers' of the high sprocket drive machines. For the sake of simplicity in this discussion, I will assume that you mean the rear idlers of these machines. Funny you should mention that. I haven't spent my entire life since these machines hit the market either working on or around them but I have never heard anybody else mention that as being a problem and I have never seen it happen either.

If it did happen, and I'm not saying it didn't, I would suspect a lack of maintenance of the bogie units to be the main problem as I have quite honestly been surprised at the LACK of track trouble that I have seen with the high sprocket machines. The major progress in track chain technology is, I suspect, the main reason for this.

I have yet to even see a Kummagutsa scraper or compactor, let alone operate one. I have only ever seen about 3 Kummagutsa graders and only operated one. I have operated more Cat, Kato and Hitachi excavators than I have Kummagutsa ones. I have operated more Cat dump trucks than I have Kummagutsa ones. I have operated WAY more Cat dozers than I have Kummagutsa dozers. And I have only operated the Kummagutsa loaders that I mentioned in a previous post and only one each of them, except for the D55S, of which I think I've operated 3. I have operated WAY more Cat loaders than that.

Now I wonder why this might be? Could it be that Kummagutsa is the as-yet un-discovered secret 'next BIG thing' in earthmoving equipment? Well, how long is it going to take to be 'discovered'????? After all, they only been on the market DownUnder for almost 40 years. Or could it be because they have been tried and failed to measure up??????

Another example of a different colour - The International TD24 dozer hit the market in 1947. It had, I think, 3 re-vamps during its production run. I started my full-time operating career in 1965, just 18 short years after the TD24 was introduced, and I have seen a whole TWO 'in the flesh' and have yet to operate one, even though one of the two I've seen currently lives just 5 miles away and is still a 'runner'.

This industry doesn't support 'also-rans' very well. The simple fact that Kummagutsas are still around and selling a few new machines seems to indicate that they are better than the International TD24. The other simple fact that they haven't achieved market dominance in nearly 40 years also seems to say something about them. You figure out what.

Deas Plant

03-03-2007, 07:37 PM

Hi, Dozer575.
I don't know whether it has occurred to you yet but I LIVE in DownUnder, or Australia to you 'tother-siders'. I'm with Squizzy - who also lives DownUnder. In all the chaining I DID, I only ever saw TWO Kummagutsas. EVERYTHING else I saw or operated was Cat, D9's, D8's, D7's, D6's and even a D4 at one stage for a short time when a D6 actually did break down.

As for them being pulled apart by chaining, I saw and did a lot of chaining and sure there were breakdowns. But, in relation to the banging around that the machines got, I thought they stood up to it pretty well. I certainly never pulled the drawbar off of a Cat dozer chaining like I did with an Allis Chalmers HD16 dozer pulling a double-drum sheepsfoot roller. Now which would you expect to be the harder job in terms of strain on the machine??????

I might add here that there was usually more time lost due to chain breakages than to machine breakdowns, at least on the jobs that I was on.

In an earlier post, you mentioned that Cat had had a period where they had a LOT of breakdowns. May I put it to you that Kummagutsa is STILL going through such a period? And that they have for a long time had an additional handicap that Cat have never really had to Kummagutsa's current degree - a lack of service?

May I also respectfully suggest that you not try to tell the RESIDENTS of a particular country other than your own what really went on in THEIR country? All you have really achieved here is to air your ignorance.

Wulf

03-03-2007, 09:35 PM

... I don't understand that statement because the bucket positioner on any of those loaders is adjustable....and you can set the return to dig angle to wherever you want it.

O.K., so I'll try to make it a little clearer...you raise it up to dumping height, the bucket itself is then tipped downward about 30-40 degrees.

This is a linkage design stuff-up and has absolutely nothing to with the cut-out itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0NApJsGRE

Deas... I don't see that characteristic in the WA900 loader video posted a few days ago (around the 2 minute mark) I'm not an operator myself and the truck and loader are probably well matched for height clearance but it looks as though the operator uses boom kick-out on his loading height, dumps the load, lifts the boom a little, returns to dig with his bucket positioner and is ready to go. I don't see him doing the procedure to reset the digging position you described... or am I missing something.

Deas Plant

03-03-2007, 10:21 PM

Wulf

03-04-2007, 02:12 AM

Hi, Wulf.
No, I don't see it there either so maybe it wasn't there on the WA900's or that is a later model and they have made some much-needed changes. You can take my word for it or not - I don't care - but it was there in the machines I operated and it was a PITA. (Pain In The A**.)

I suspect that it was a hangover from when Kummagutsa bought the Frank G Hough group because I seem to remember that some of the Hough loaders did the same thing.

I'll take your word for it and I do care Deas Plant.. however I don't think that Kummagutsa's wheel loader linkage has fundamentally changed much over the last 20 years or so. Loaders of all makes have more breakout force, lifting, manipulating and holding force but the linkage layout on the Kummagutsa looks much the same.

Dozer575

03-04-2007, 06:20 AM

Deas I wish the folks that sell used Kumagutsa's would agree with you.
They sure command a steep price as a pile of what you would say scrap!
Funny they sell for close to the same price with big time on the clock as do the Catacrapa dozers do why is that?
You are suprized at lack of track trouble on the hidrives? You addmit to not being around them. I have and all it takes is the right size stone or tree and it will run it right off. I know Cat had to lower track prices to be able to sell dozers, since that rear wheelie tends to wear rails in a strange way.
I have a real good pen pal friend that lives in the land of OZ and used to do lots of chaining till your enviro global warming crowd put a halt to it. He is the one that said Komakazi is the preffered dozer, and how the Catacrudies just cann't hang in there. It seemed every time he did the D9 gig he was stuck pulling a transmission or torque converter or some other major deal.
Funny he sent me video's and photos of the dozers, I never saw a high sprocket affair in them. What it all looks like to me, is for some reason the Kumagotcha's you fella's get there is from China or Mexico. And here in the states we get the good Japan ones, but the catsypatsy's here come from where your Komagotta's come from.

Deas Plant

03-04-2007, 08:25 AM

Hi, Wulf.
The change that it would take to remedy that defect in the loader linkage is something that you would not notice unless you were in the know and had the correct measurements to check things against.

All it would require would be to move the rear mounting point of the bucket crowd ram up or down a few millimetres to change the parallel action enough to overcome the problem. Such a change would be so small as to pass un-noticed to all but those with specialist knowledge.

CM1995

03-04-2007, 02:25 PM

You are suprized at lack of track trouble on the hidrives? You addmit to not being around them. I have and all it takes is the right size stone or tree and it will run it right off. I know Cat had to lower track prices to be able to sell dozers, since that rear wheelie tends to wear rails in a strange way.

What it all looks like to me, is for some reason the Kumagotcha's you fella's get there is from China or Mexico. And here in the states we get the good Japan ones, but the catsypatsy's here come from where your Komagotta's come from.

I don't know where you are getting your info on this either you have actual experience running hi-drives or you are getting second hand information but I have never experienced this problem. With several thousand hours on a D5N, D6N and D6R I have never had a track come off. This includes deep mud, clearing and grubbing, hard rock ripping and 1.5-1 slope work. Proper maintenance of an undercarriage is crucial.

Do you know where Peoria, Ill. is? The D6R and above are made there. The
D6N is made in Belgium and the G series is made in Japan. It is the company that makes the machines not the geographic location of the facility.

As far as the large dozers go - it is exactly what Deas said the "yeller and blue" are good for 2k hours. Drummond Coal operates several strip mines in AL and they tried Komatsu on the large dozers and of course they are running Cat now - operational budget was taking a beating running Komatsu.

d4c24a

03-04-2007, 04:26 PM

dozer 575 = d8bob or am i wrong:confused: come on own up

Tigerotor77W

03-04-2007, 05:21 PM

Do you know where Peoria, Ill. is? The D6R and above are made there. The D6N is made in Belgium and the G series is made in Japan.

Just to clarify, not to attack, the D5N, D6K, and D6N are made in Grenoble, France. The Gosselies, Belgium plant makes excavators and wheel loaders.

The hydrostatic G-series is produced in Sagami, Japan. The D6G2 and D7G2 are produced elsewhere.

CM1995

03-04-2007, 08:23 PM

Just to clarify, not to attack, the D5N, D6K, and D6N are made in Grenoble, France. The Gosselies, Belgium plant makes excavators and wheel loaders.

The hydrostatic G-series is produced in Sagami, Japan. The D6G2 and D7G2 are produced elsewhere.

Oops- the D6N IS made in France as well as the CS533E:rolleyes: . The 325DL or at least ours was made in Belgium. The point I was making was that quality comes from the company - not where the factory is located.

I think the 953 is made in France as well. They still make D6G and D7G tractors? I was referring to the D3-5 model that is available in the US.

RonG

03-05-2007, 05:55 AM

dozer 575 = d8bob or am i wrong:confused: come on own up
I agree it sure sounds like him.I thought that the first time you said it.You can't insult him just like this guy,he just pretends he didn't hear you:))Ron G

nilzlofgren

03-05-2007, 06:18 AM

We have a D61 with 1800 hours, and it is the biggest P.O.S.

Tigerotor77W

03-05-2007, 08:31 AM

Oops- the D6N IS made in France as well as the CS533E:rolleyes: . The 325DL or at least ours was made in Belgium. The point I was making was that quality comes from the company - not where the factory is located.

I think the 953 is made in France as well. They still make D6G and D7G tractors? I was referring to the D3-5 model that is available in the US.

Agreed with your first point. Track loaders (953D-973C) are made in Grenoble as well.

The D6G2 and D7G2 are only for sale in lesser developed countries -- namely developing areas such as China, India, Southeast Asia, South America, and so on. They don't offer the creature comforts/electronics (or high drive... *musing*) that we find here or in Europe and Japan.

(High drive comment is a joke... that tractor line never got upgraded, so it retains oval track. And there's bound to be a business rationale behind it as well.)

CM1995

03-05-2007, 09:28 PM

I can understand why Cat still produces the D6-D7G. The R&D put into these machines has been paid for many times over, therefore Cat is able to produce a much lower cost machine without the bells and whistles to developing countries that need an alternative to a shovel and wheelbarrow.

Scott_527

03-06-2007, 10:07 AM

I don't have any expirience with this stuff (just a wanna be) but here's what I can tell ya.
Finning Cat is Caterpillar's largest privately owned dealer, they serve westen Canada. This same area is also home to Deere's largest dealer, Brandt Tractor. A rep from Finning told me that in western Canada Cat holds over 70% of the dozer market (forget the exact # something like 73) , he said that the figure has held steady for the last 30 years. :cool:

activeorpassive

03-09-2007, 11:35 PM

Do you know where Peoria, Ill. is?

I do...:D

Tigerotor77W

03-10-2007, 03:43 PM

I do...:D

Do we finally have another Cat guy on the forum? :D

Wulf

03-10-2007, 04:34 PM

Do we finally have another Cat guy on the forum? :D

;) Tiger I think 90% of the folks here are Cat guys :rolleyes:

equipment fan

03-10-2007, 05:45 PM

Hey Tiger,i`m a cat guy:cool2 .I will send pictures later of a trio of cat waste handler buldozer.When you will see this,now your talking:cool:

equipment fan

03-10-2007, 08:00 PM

Hi to all members,
Check this pick of waste handler dozer from cat

CM1995

03-10-2007, 08:08 PM

Hey-

I got to see a couple of D8T WHA's while I was in Peoria on a factory trip. (Sorry I just couldn't help it:D )

And at 90% - you can't go wrong.:bouncegri

Tigerotor77W

03-10-2007, 08:13 PM

I meant Cat employee, but at the same time, it'd be good to hear what others feel. I'll admit I don't like the bitter truth, but I respect it nonetheless and think it'll only make the victim manufacturer's products better.

equipment fan

03-10-2007, 08:22 PM

Hey tiger,whats your opinion on the new cat d6k dozer?It`s look like a good dozer:cool:

Squizzy246B

03-10-2007, 08:23 PM

;) Tiger I think 90% of the folks here are Cat guys :rolleyes:

Do you really think so???...I'm not sure, I'm think a large proportion of the people here have a healthy respect for Cat...but 90%. I think the days of one brand loyalty might be numbered.

And anyways, I think Xing was referring to employees of Caterpillar, not "Cat fans" so to speak.

Wulf

03-10-2007, 08:32 PM

...at 90% - you can't go wrong.:bouncegri

;) LOL... McDonalds sell a lot of lunches... Harley Davidson sell a lot of motorcycles... doesn't necessarily mean they are any good ***

CM1995

03-10-2007, 08:37 PM

;) LOL... McDonalds sell a lot of lunches... Harley Davidson sell a lot of motorcycles... doesn't necessarily mean they are any good ***

Very true - but I can't make a living with a hamburger or a motorcylce.:rolleyes:

Deas Plant

03-10-2007, 09:20 PM

Hi, CM19195.
I don't know if they are still doing it but some years ago a couple of enterprising 'good ol' biker boys' were making a living with their Harleys by taking pillion passengers on guided tours around Ayers Rock (Known to the Aboriginals as Uluru.) in central Australia.

There was another group doing guided tours of the more historical parts of Sydney, N.S.W., Australia, also with their Harleys, also taking pillion passengers for these tours.

See? Even a d**n 'Hardly Driveable' can have its uses. LOL. (Ducks thrown bottles and spanners and fends off expletives from HD addicts.)

Wulf

03-10-2007, 09:37 PM

Very true - but I can't make a living with a hamburger or a motorcylce.:rolleyes:

LOL... nice comeback CM1995 but you can certainly make a living manufacturing and selling them ;)

Tigerotor77W

03-11-2007, 12:33 AM

;) LOL... McDonalds sell a lot of lunches... Harley Davidson sell a lot of motorcycles... doesn't necessarily mean they are any good ***

*pouting* Certain things Cat sells are good. :(

And yeah, Squizz, I was referring to employees (as mentioned in my post a few above yours). I think they're hidden here. If I'm ever considered by Cat for full-time, I'll just say that I work for them. But at the same time... my posting here will probably go way down and my "speculation" thoughts will disappear.

rino1494

03-11-2007, 07:21 AM

LoL.....wtf happened to this thread :Pointhead

Deas Plant

03-11-2007, 09:42 AM

Hi, Rino1494.
Squizzy wuz heah. Does that answer your question. LOL.

Ackshully, I cain't tell a lie. Wulf dunnit this time - - - aided and abetted by CM1995.

LOL.

CM1995

03-11-2007, 10:34 AM

LOL... nice comeback CM1995 but you can certainly make a living manufacturing and selling them ;)

Wellll - I guess I could put a box blade on the harley and have a hamburger stand on the jobsite.*** But since I make a living moving dirt there has to be other options.:beatsme

I am not a cat employee - just feel like I should be a major stockholder.LOL

Tigerotor77W

03-11-2007, 10:43 AM

Sorry, equipment fan, forgot to reply -- I love it. If the numbers Cat's put out are real, the D6K offers a fairly substantial (for me, that means >10%) improvement in productivity over the D5Nin certain tasks.

equipment fan

03-11-2007, 10:58 AM

:notworthy Tiger,i agree with your commentary on the d6k:iagree

CM1995

03-11-2007, 10:59 AM

t3chw00di

03-18-2007, 09:20 PM

I'm really curious what the cat hydrostatic drivetrain will be like. If it's anything like Deere's 650/750, it'll be great. I also wonder if cat will use it in bigger machines at some point. The D6K is a little small for what I do usually.
As for the Accugrade Lazer, I'm sure it will great for small area's like lots and pads. The prob I see with lazer is that it's line of sight, so it limits you too much on larger sites. A GPS system is the way to go I think. I'm getting a new D6R (was hoping for a D6T, but they aren't shipping yet) with Trimble GCS900 GPS (same as cat accugrade) within a week or two. It's awsome to have the whole job design on a 1/4 section subdevelopment right at your fingertips :D
I'm really looking forward to the auto blade control for finishing. Can we say LAZY!?!? ;)

Deas Plant

03-19-2007, 04:37 AM

Hi, CM1995.
I spent seven years cutting house pads with laser monitoring equipment on track loaders, 941's, 943's and 953's, and on a Cat D5B wide gauge dozer, 44X series.

The system we had was only grade checking, not grade controlling, that is it only checked the levels as you worked and gave you the readings and it only read about 3 1/2" above or below grade. Still it was well and truly worth having for the time it saved getting on and off the machine to manually check the levels.

Basically, it was the normal laser emitter (sender) unit set up where would do the most good, ie., somewhere between 7 and 8 1/4 feet above finished grade and where it had unrestricted coverage of the site. Then there was a laser receiver with a magnetic base that stuck to either a canopy leg or a vertical rail fitted to the door of the cab. We had survey staff scales stuck to these rails and/or the canopy legs to eliminate wasted time measuring the height at which the sensor needed to be set. Once we had the height worked out, we just looked it up on the survey staff scale and stuck the magnet at that height.

That company only had one machine, a 953C, with the electronics built in to run a laser-controlled system.

When working, I simply started cutting at the top, watched the sensor for when it indicated that it was getting close to grade and started spreading my load when the sensor showed grade. I always worked my fill up in layers so that I could track roll it as I came up.

Some clients wanted the fill compacted with a vibrating sheepsfoot roller. We always used a drawn vibrating roller for this work 'cos you could hang it over the edge to compact the batters too and still get it back. If you were using a self-propelled roller and hung the drum over the edge like we did, the only way from there would be down. Yes, there were those who said that these drawn vibrating rollers are antiquated and I have to admit that they are. However, they do the job where nothing else will.

The sensors that this company used indicated 'on grade' to about 1/2" above or below and then read 'high' or 'low' as the case may be for 3" above or below that 'on-grade' range. Once you got used to it, it was fairly easy to keep the 'on-grade' light flashing right across and all over a house pad if you were trimming with a track loader with a 4-in-1 bucket. It was a little harder with the D5B but still emminently do-able. And most of this company's clients only wanted +/- 3/4" anyway.

The only real problem that I had, other than the odd defective laser emitter or receiver, was with reflections from windows in existing houses around the site. To stop this, I used to drape a heavy cloth over the sides of the emitter facing these windows. At one stage, I made up a cardboard shroud that simply dropped over the emitter and did the same job.

I have never used laser-controlled grading equipment on anything but believe from the reports I have heard that is very quick and very accurate.

Over longer distances on hot days, heat haze can affect the laser beam making it do strange things but I never had that problem over the sorts of distances that we were working on even quite large house pads and a few even bigger factory or shopping centre pads.

Hope this helps.

Deas Plant

03-19-2007, 06:46 AM

Hi, t3chw00di.
Personally, I'd be a little surprised if it's a whole lot different from the hydrostatic loader drive trains. This is just guesswork but Cat do have a pretty well-proven system there that doesn't give a lot of trouble and works well. I also think it would be a VERY good move to have foot pedal steering allsame the track loaders - leaves your hands free for the 'IMPORTANT' stuff - - like controlling the attachments, scratching your (r)ear, picking your nose, sending 'the bird' to your workmates, etc..

CM1995

03-19-2007, 09:03 AM

Thanks for the info Deas. This is exactly the type of info I am looking for - actual experience. The salesman just wants to move systems and worry about the problems later.

Have a great day.
Cory

Squizzy246B

03-19-2007, 09:34 AM

Some links to stuff Deas is talking about here:

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1782&page=2&highlight=Magnetic

I have been using the mag base laser receiver on a Loader and skid for a bit over 2 years and wouldn't be without them. However, it does take some practice to get the job actually level. Two receivers is a good setup...no blind spots.

Deas Plant

03-19-2007, 09:42 AM

Hi, CM1995.
Oh, that it were so. But it AIN'T. Sure, salesmen want to move product. Unfortunately, they seldom seem very interested in 'WORRYING' about it later. The combination of the measures of how good the product actually is and the amount of 'worrying' that the salesman does will go a long way to determining just how much repeat business that particular salesman and that product will receive.

Re the information; You are most welcome. I don't see a lot of point in my spending 40+ years gathering it just to take it to the grave with me. If you have further queries, feel free to send me a private message if you want. If you include your e-mail, I will send as much detail as I have about your queries. Bear in mind though that my experience relates to the products available DownUnder, which may not always be the ones that you are looking at.

Deas Plant

03-19-2007, 09:50 AM

Hi, CM1995 and Squizzy.
This particular company ackshully had a 'brain-snap' and had spreader bars built for the track loaders that could be clamped in the 4-in-1 buckets just like the spreader bars that you see skid-steers using but to scale for track loaders. They worked VERY well and meant that you were trimming up to about 4 metres (13 feet) at a time instead of 2 1/2 metres (8 feet). They also did not dig in as much as the dozer cutting edge on the 4-in-1 bucket. Great stuff.

Scott_527

03-28-2007, 03:32 PM

I'd like to open up a new can of worms here if I could. Most of the dozer talk seems to be about big dozers, so I'll ask this question. Who would you say makes the best machine for the D6-8 size class?

mtb345

03-29-2007, 02:33 PM

for that class base on my exp CAT ihave worked on a lot of rock jobs and nobody would take a chance on anything else[better grade of steel too. the only dozer on the market that a company would invest in over 20yrs old is cat:cool2

catd8t

03-29-2007, 07:15 PM

the d8t is the best dozer ive ever run. that dozer is so smooth and quick. i put that dozer in high gear and it just moves so much material. my boss came out on the job the other day and said it was worth the money. i like that dozer a whoe lot better then that d 65 i ran before i had to work on getting use to running the side seat but other then that i like it a lot as you can tell. i must say i havent ran a dozer better but my boss wants a d9t now cause we have a big job to do and he alked to me about running it ill keep u guys posted on that one. so thats my peace of mind on that one

catd4g

04-01-2007, 10:45 PM

Without a brand war pros and cons of these 3 dozers to each other.
1. Cat D4G
2. Deer 550J
3. Komatsu P37

All are LPG with cab and air, around a 115 inch blade.

Use: we are a small company that does light dozer clearing, site prep, small ponds, driveways, housepads etc.
We also have a Hatichi 120 excuvator and have been running a Komatsu P31 open station. Want to upgrade to a little larger dozer with cab.
The dozer will be pushed to its max on some clearing jobs as we do get into some very thick cutover areas sometimes for deer plots etc.
Thank you for any info.

Countryboy

04-01-2007, 10:59 PM

Welcome to HEF catd4g! :drinkup

Squizzy246B

04-02-2007, 06:09 AM

Without a brand war pros and cons of these 3 dozers to each other.
1. Cat D4G
2. Deer 550J
3. Komatsu P37

.

G,day D4g, welcome...There has been a lot of discussion on "smaller" dozers in threads various....not necassarily dedicated threads, but the topic has come up quite a bit posted by dozer operators well better informed than me.....Try searching through some of the older dozer threads for some great reading.....if that doesn't amuse you then you can try the "Lonely Friday thread which will tell you everything about nothing:rolleyes:

PSDF350

04-02-2007, 09:16 AM

G,day D4g, welcome...There has been a lot of discussion on "smaller" dozers in threads various....not necassarily dedicated threads, but the topic has come up quite a bit posted by dozer operators well better informed than me.....Try searching through some of the older dozer threads for some great reading.....if that doesn't amuse you then you can try the "Lonely Friday thread which will tell you everything about nothing:rolleyes:

I also am no dozer expert (far from it) but from what info I have been able to gather from here and other places I visit. Is that for the smaller dozers deere is favored. But for d5 above it is cat.

HAWKVOL

03-16-2008, 04:24 PM

For the record I do own/operate a bunch of yellow scrap iron.:D

I like the looks of the D6K for finishing slopes, building small pads, stripping topsoil, working on subgrade, etc. I would like to give the D6k a year or so to work out the new machine "bugs" and demo one with accugrade for finishing house/building pads. I really like the idea of a laser system to grade lot pads. Anybody used it on a small/mid size dozer?

DEERE owns the Dozer Market from the 700J down in the states....and the 750J is beginning to outresale the D6N in some areas. Cat is chasing the DEERE design and the D6K was their latest attempt to rip DEERE off. They didn't get it done from what I'm hearing from guys that have demo'd it.

Cat is still living off it's reputation in the BIG Iron from years ago...The field is catching them.

Accertin

03-16-2008, 04:45 PM

:Pointhead Deere taste good smoked, what do you mean they're running the show on dozer's in the US? Ok, some folks have a grudge on the real big yellow (eveyone has an opinion). Lets see how the D6K plays out, I can tell you this, seeing more K's and M series graders rolling on trucks down the road.:usa

CM1995

03-16-2008, 04:52 PM

DEERE owns the Dozer Market from the 700J down in the states....and the 750J is beginning to outresale the D6N in some areas. Cat is chasing the DEERE design and the D6K was their latest attempt to rip DEERE off. They didn't get it done from what I'm hearing from guys that have demo'd it.

Cat is still living off it's reputation in the BIG Iron from years ago...The field is catching them.

Welcome to the forum HAWKVOL.:drinkup

I have to disagree that Deere owns the dozer market from the 700J down - at least in my neck of the woods- just south of your location. There are far more Cat's than Deere's on the jobsites. Now that goes with also saying that Deere does not have as strong of dealer presence that Cat does in my area. I will also admit that I have not tried any of the new dozer offerings that Deere has. I have a D5G, D6N and D6R. The D6N is by far my favorite dozer to operate and one of the most versatile in my small fleet. I am not currently in the market for a new dozer due to the unfortunate downturn in the housing market, but when I am I will demo a Deere.

As far as Cat ripping Deere off - I guess it just depends on what year you base it own. Remember Holt Manufacturing and C L Best Tractor Company..........:cool:

HAWKVOL

03-16-2008, 05:07 PM

Every Die Hard Cat guy I know tips his Hat to the DEERE Dozers from the 700J down. They will say out loud that it is a better product than the Cat Dozers.........Lately there is more Buzz in the 750J-850J Class also.The Cat Dealerships in the area are Very strong and that seems to carry the day in much of the decision making.

It's a good decision to give the DEERE Dozers a look....I'll be shocked if you don't fall in love.

biggixxerjim

03-16-2008, 05:37 PM

ill take the 550J.

Deere does make awesome smaller dozers, better than cat I must say. Better balanced, just as much if not more power, great visibility, etc. My company has a 450H LGP with about 6,000 hours on it, and it is a great little machine. No reliability issues and it is EVERYONES favorite dozer to run in the company. I know the cat doesnt leave much room to improve, but the Deere just feels like a more together package. And Im a cat fan to the bones.

I ran an 850J LGP and it was very impressive as well.

petersfamilytru

03-16-2008, 06:30 PM

Almost all the equipment I own is John Deere. I really like Deere equipment, and they are good on parts. Yet, I will never own anything but a Caterpillar dozer. They hold up to the abuse that goes along with owning a dozer.

Take a look at an early 80's model John Deere or Komatsu dozer... They almost give them away! Caterpillar still brings good value after 25 year.

HAWKVOL

03-16-2008, 06:39 PM

as mentioned ...Cat IS the McDonald's of the Construction Industry. People continue to eat at Mickey D's in DROVES......Doesn't make it the best Burger in Town. Kuddo's to Cat for the successful "Branding". But much Like their Excavator has been outed ....their Dozer will lose ground in the coming years.

Burnout

03-16-2008, 06:40 PM

Ok I guess I'll chime in on this. I generally run away from dozers as much as I can but I have had some seat time sitting in them. I am in love with the Deere H and J series from the 450-650. They are a well thought out machine with great visibility and the Deere 4045T engine is one of the best. I have spent some time in the Deere 750-850's as well and they are a great machine as well. We have a new D6N and I only spent a few hours in it but didn't really like it. Once you try a D6 sized machine with diff steer compared to one with hydrostat you start to miss the Deere big time. I also found the blade lever stiffer in the Cat dozers compared to the JD. I grew up Die Hard John Deere and I suppose I will always be that way even though I run a CAnT now.

I have been saying this a lot lately, but Caterpillar is getting lazy. At one time they had that huge lead on the industry where they were the cats meow (pun intended) when it came to heavy equipment, but some of their products as of late have been lacking. While Deere doesn't have the dealer support that Cat does, their dealers return calls. Growing up if we had a problem with our cat equipment it took time for the dealer to get back with an answer and parts to our problems. The Deere dealer always returned calls, had parts coming and never let us down when it came to parts for new or old equipment.

But I say there is only one way to settle this.... like men! I know where we have a brand new 6N sitting... someone bring out a 850J LGP and we'll do er up! Then we'll smash the 850J with the 385CL, and the 6N with the 800C and go home.:Pointhead

petersfamilytru

03-16-2008, 07:54 PM

I'm just a little guy trying to etch out a living in a small rural area in Oregon. I guess my opinions need to prefaced by stating that I run OLDER machines. Hell, the newest piece of equipment I've got is a mid-90's excavator (John Deere).

I have just always been under the impression that Caterpillar, even with their horrid prices, truly stand above all the others when it comes to longevity. But, since all the new dozer are "component" machines, I suppose it doesn't really matter what tag is on the hood.

MUDSLINGERS

03-17-2008, 12:27 AM

I have ran cats, komatsu, deere, and case, and if you wanted a little dozer to move a little dirt and finish a road with rock or just the dirt you have left over, the best is either a komatsu or a cat. Depending on the skills you have on a dozer, them are the best for a average or a skilled dozer hand. And if you are a new hand, their easy to learn on. The 31 or the 41 in Komatsu, or the D3 in cat is good ones to do the job!

Countryboy

03-17-2008, 02:16 AM

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums HAWKVOL! :drinkup

HAWKVOL

03-17-2008, 08:51 AM

I'm looking forward to "Living" in the the neighborhood.

CascadeScaper

03-17-2008, 06:50 PM

This last week, I spent 4 days at the union training grounds. I was in the dozer class 1 day out of 4 days. Ran Deere 650H, Cat D6RXLII with a 6 way blade, and a D8RII. I liked the 650H for doing finish work, maybe I wasn't accustomed to the 6 very well but I couldn't keep myself from making rookie bumps like I could with the 650. Maybe if I would have had a little more time on the 6, I could have got it done a little better, just seemed real fast on the blade and I kept over-doing movement control.

I hadn't been on a dozer bigger than a 650H size before, the D8 was a blast. Just about like driving a house, drop the blade and plow through a pile. We were slot dozing, so we had to fill in the trench after we went a determined length of dozing. No feathering the blade with the 8, just drop into the pile and go, what a riot.

Deereman

03-17-2008, 10:24 PM

Don't run me over b/c I am a Deereman, I respect cat(hell anything beats a shovel and wheel borrow) , but cat has never totally owned the small dozer market and has been a total copy cat with their new dozers especially the D6K. When I first saw it I wondered if deere made it. And this post is so long i can't keep up with who said what(so bear with me) but hyundai or whoever does not make deere dozers. Deere has always made their 850 size and down. Hitachi markets the 4,5 and 650 over seas. People who hate 650 are using them like 750 and 850. For ppl who like them lite, leave them alone; if they like them heavy put a winch or ripper and you like them. Deere's resales is slightly better then cat up to a 700 even off or a little below in the 750 and 850 size and nowhere near in the bigger size. And most ppl who are died in the whool cat ppl usually tent not to take care of other brands to make them go away. I've heard ppl to go as far as to vandalize the equipment so it would go back. I do agree with what most on here say about komatsu being cheap. Good on first price but then you more then make up for it after.cat on a D10 and up. I would take a 950J over a 950c any day. I did the same thing about the throttle, trying to turn it up but it only runs 1800 rpms. Even thoe the 1050 still lacks a little i would still take it over a D8R. Thoe i do like the D8R & T. Nice machines. Hystats in a big machine is like the new cat stick graders. You hate them till you get used to them. I agree with the tilt on the blades on deeres, not enough. And its funny about the undercarriage on that 750J coming off. Never had that problem even when i was holding on to the cab/cage to work. I loved the 750CII but like the J a little better. And I've never seen a cat SIP fuel Specially in excavators and dozers. Not to get anyone riled up but If its not a DEERE, It must be a puss!!

HAWKVOL

03-17-2008, 11:33 PM

Tell it DeereMan...........Tell It.

Construct'O

03-18-2008, 01:05 PM

Okay good post as to compairson.Until we get to the last sentence .Why ???????

"Not to get anyone riled up but If its not a DEERE, It must be a puss!!"

Are we talking about equipment or something else :eek: :beatsme :usa

EZ TRBO

03-18-2008, 02:00 PM

I haven't been on a ton of different dozers but I dont' think ANY manufactor produces a PERFECT machine. What one likes bout somthing on a dozer, someone else might not like it. But finding the best bang for your buck is number one, that means dealer support, machine cost, parts and service. I have been on CAT 5's and 6's, Dresser 15's, Deere 550's, 850's and they all have their weak points and good points. I am sure the newer machines are the same way. Everyone has his/her own idea as to why they buy each machine and to each its own. I know of some guys that are all CAT, some that are Deere, and a few that have switched over to Komatsu, all for their own reasons. Just my :my2c

Trbo

Temu

03-26-2008, 10:55 PM

and only the Cat!:drinkup

LDK

03-27-2008, 06:19 AM

In other threads I have admitted that for 30 years their was only one brand for me, CAT but about 10 years ago my opinion changed and I became more objective ( I believe).
CAT make some good dozer's, I would have to be a fool to claim otherwise but they do not make the best in every size class, at least that is my opinion.
I've run Komatsu, Deere and Fiat Allis models that I would take any day over an equal sized Cat, having said that their are also Cat dozer's that would be my first choice every time.
I have been running a 700J LT for a few months recently and what a dozer it is, I have never been on a CAT or a Komatsu equivalent of this sized machine that comes close to it on performance or maneuverability, I think #4# it has to be close to being the best performing dozer I have ever used but to be definitive about that would take more thought than I have time for.

Dazzled but not blinded;)

North Texan

03-30-2008, 08:05 PM

Best? There is no best. Even in the same size class, the best dozer depends on the task at hand.

The dealer is what seals the deal.

HAWKVOL

03-30-2008, 08:34 PM

LDK

03-30-2008, 10:52 PM

which manufacture makes the best dozer small to large???

I would agree that the quality of a dealership can be influential when buying a dozer but the original question makes no mention of dealership.

sfc

03-31-2008, 03:10 PM

LDK

03-31-2008, 04:08 PM

surely the best bulldozer is the one best suited to the job in hand, and the most satisfied by the joe sitting on the seat pulling the levers regardless as to wether it is cat, komatsu, international or john deere. The only thing i can say are john Deere's that good because i have never seen one in England and being a small country we run an awful lot of small dozers

I ran a couple of JD's in the UK in the very early 80's, an 850 and the other was about the same size as a D3, a 350 or 450 I think? I did not like the small one but thought that the 850 was fine, in those days I was a dyed in the wool CAT fanatic and was blind to anything else including KOMATSU. I'm a bit more open minded now, I think? As far as current JD models go I can only comment on the 700J and 750J, the former is fantastic and the later is good and up to now would not hesitate in buying either model again.
Things are a little different over here, the Cat and Komatsu dealers push the sales of the machines that are made in Brazil, whereas JD will sell you the machine that you want, without having an argument about it because they all come in from the States.

Construct'O

03-31-2008, 05:11 PM

The 850 size and down are made at Dubuque,Iowa.The bigger ones are made over sea.:usa

LDK

03-31-2008, 05:50 PM

The 850 size and down are made at Dubuque,Iowa.The bigger ones are made over sea.:usa

Sorry about that, I know that the 950 and 1050 are produced by Lebhier but if I wanted one here it would probably come in from the States. The 160 we have is made in Japan but it came in here via the States.
I was trying to stress more the fact that with JD here (Argentina) they would not try telling me that I needed a different sized machine to the one I know I want. The same could not be said for the Cat or Komatsu dealers.

CM1995

03-31-2008, 08:20 PM

But there is some truth to what you say also. The dealership/support can play a heavy hand in any equipment purchase decision....but it doesn't have anything to do with the QUALITY/PERFORMANCE of the machine itself.

I have to agree and disagree. Fundamentally a dealer - "doesn't have anything to do with the QUALITY/PERFORMANCE of the machine itself" and this is true - in a perfect world. Every thing that is mechanical WILL break - regardless of who makes it. Now the dealer side of the equation becomes a big factor of your purchase. The machine you bought may be the best darn thingamajiga in the world but if you have to wait on parts and service for days to get it back going, that is where the product/service support of your dealer plays a major role on your bottom line - period.

Contractors are in business to make money - not for our health. The dealer plays just as important role as the brand of machine, because you are not buying the machine from a manufacturer - you are buying from a dealer.

North Texan

03-31-2008, 08:25 PM

Do the larger JD's still have the split coolers?

That's one thing that has driven me crazy on that 750B we have. It will push dirt all day without problems. Start pushing a few trees and doing a little ag work, and it seems like it wants to run hot all the time.

LDK

03-31-2008, 09:39 PM

I have to agree and disagree. Fundamentally a dealer - "doesn't have anything to do with the QUALITY/PERFORMANCE of the machine itself" and this is true - in a perfect world. Every thing that is mechanical WILL break - regardless of who makes it. Now the dealer side of the equation becomes a big factor of your purchase. The machine you bought may be the best darn thingamajiga in the world but if you have to wait on parts and service for days to get it back going, that is where the product/service support of your dealer plays a major role on your bottom line - period.

Contractors are in business to make money - not for our health. The dealer plays just as important role as the brand of machine, because you are not buying the machine from a manufacturer - you are buying from a dealer.

But, it would not matter how good the dealer was you would still not buy a "copy cat" dozer or one of those Russian T170's, even if they came with a truck load of spares, right?

HAWKVOL

03-31-2008, 10:51 PM

I have to agree and disagree. Fundamentally a dealer - "doesn't have anything to do with the QUALITY/PERFORMANCE of the machine itself" and this is true - in a perfect world. Every thing that is mechanical WILL break - regardless of who makes it. Now the dealer side of the equation becomes a big factor of your purchase. The machine you bought may be the best darn thingamajiga in the world but if you have to wait on parts and service for days to get it back going, that is where the product/service support of your dealer plays a major role on your bottom line - period.

Contractors are in business to make money - not for our health. The dealer plays just as important role as the brand of machine, because you are not buying the machine from a manufacturer - you are buying from a dealer.

the Dealer has Nothing to do with the Quality/Performance of the Product. It does have to do with your overall experience of ownership....But That's not what the question is. Is the Cat D8T any less of a machine in a market with a Poor Cat Dealer?

MUDSLINGERS

03-31-2008, 11:19 PM

ALL IT COMES DOWN TO IS: what kind of operator and his choice!! I love komatsu, but I also like JD and Cat, I have also enjoyed some case dozers, but depending on what you like to see out in front of you and even more what is behind you, that is your choice!! DEPENDS ON THE OPERATOR AND HOW HE WANTS THE JOB TO LOOK!!

petersfamilytru

03-31-2008, 11:21 PM

This is hilarious... There are some pretty passionate opinions about what's the best. I suspect, because we've all spent so much money buying our equipment, we want to believe what we bought is the best. Otherwise, we might not be the smartest! Can't have that, now can we?

papodiesel

04-04-2008, 02:53 PM

I am an owner operator, my 450H John Deere runs 9 or 10 hours daily 3 or 4 days a week in rough terrain as we have in Puerto Rico. In terms of maintenance, durability, power and economy maybe another 450H.:usa

stretch

04-04-2008, 03:28 PM

Welcome to the forums papodiesel!

(Hahaha beat CB over here! He'll be along later...)

Never operated one but always like to hear opinions...lot of the smaller contractors around here like Deeres, all sizes. Cat's in a close second with most of the medium/large contractors buying them, and after that it's a free-for-all between Case/NH, IH/Dresser/Dressta, Fiat-Allis, and the other major builders.

Countryboy

04-06-2008, 07:54 PM

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums papodiesel! :drinkup

(Hahaha beat CB over here! He'll be along later...)

We all need a day off every once in a while. ;)

ProudMarineDad

04-06-2008, 09:26 PM

Looking forward to picking the pros minds on this website. I am new to heavy equipment and i'm learning all i can about dozers. Because my dear wife told me she thinks we need to go ahead and get one to clear some brush and fire breaks. Yaaaahhoooo. thanks in advance.

td8

04-06-2008, 10:01 PM

WV Logger

04-08-2008, 01:32 PM

which manufacture makes the best dozer small to large???

Small dozers 70-90 horse power would be John Deere in my opinion.
Owned 450C, 450G, 550G, 550H, 650H.

Smaller dozer than 70 horse would be like a small older case 450. Comparing it to a 350 JD or even the 400 JD I thought it ran a little better against a load.

LDK

04-10-2008, 11:10 PM

I don`t know what to say, I`m nervous that if I don`t agree with what has been said I won`t be worthy.

I think any operator worth his salt will tell you that a Cat dozer is a superior machine to anything Komatsu offers - dozer wise. Now when it comes to hoes komatsu is a tight runner. But put a D65 against a D6R and there really is no comparison. I know of a few coal mines around here that went with Komatsu and changed to cat after 3k hours because the Komatsu's were "just falling apart".

Take for instance how you access the transmission. The Cat slides out the rear end of the tractor without much effort for maintenance. The Komatsu's cab has to be taken off the machine.

We currently have a D65 on rent working next to a D6R. Both machines have about 300 hours on them. The Komatsu has a hydraulic leak and the blade pins and bushings are already sloppy. The Cat runs like it should - a brand new tractor.:thumbsup

My Komatsu salesman will not even try to sell me a Komatsu dozer. His quote "Komatsu has made great strides in their dozers but Cat still has them beat". (Everybody take that as you will - that is what he told me.)

Komatsu Hoes are good machines. We demo'ed a PC300 and a Cat 325D and I know that these machines are slightly different in class size, the cat being smaller but I was impressed with the 300. It was just a little to big and more $$$ than the Cat so we went with the Cat. I definetly see a Komatsu hoe in our future but life is to short to own the current model of Komatsu dozers or anything made by Terex.

euclid

04-11-2008, 09:12 AM

It doesn't matter what brand a dozer is they all got their good and bad points.A good operator can do as much work with any brand.Sure some say this brand holds up better and another person says a differant brands better.But the truth about it is a bad operator can destroy any machine.

It has been a long time since I've been cat skinning, but what I do know the operator can make any machine do it's thing. Other than h/p and size might be the overall set backs if you are using the corect machine to do the job.

Deas Plant

04-11-2008, 09:56 AM

Hi, Euclid.
You make a valid point but I don't really think that that is what the main subject of this thread is all about. If I have grasped it correctly, the main question here is about reliability, performance, longevity, ergonomics and a whole lot of other things all being taken into consideration when evaluating the merits of one machine over another.

Although I have little experience of them, in the smaller sizes up to about Cat D6 equivalent, I would be looking hard at John Deere, as well as Cat. I don't know what JD's service and parts back-up is like locally so that would also be a consideration.

I have enjoyed operating several 'Kummagutsa' dozers from D41A through D65A LGP, D85A and several D155A's to a D355A-1, BUT I have also seen all of them wearing faster than the equivalent Cats in similar work. Coupled with less than enthusiastic service, this makes me wary of this brand.

I also have little experience of Case dozers and none with their hydrostatic models. However, I don't see a whole lot of them around either, which tends to make me suspicious.

Over D6 size, it's gotta be 'Moggy-pillar'.

LDK, you are right to be nervous if you are not 120% DEDICATED Cat yellow. LOL.

euclid

04-11-2008, 12:37 PM

Yeah having the right unit will make all the difference, are you in the bush? Never made it over to Queensland but been in NSW and WA, rough country out west. And I spent 3 years in Darwin and I loved it very much. I have had a very enjoyable time chatting and reading post about equipment and whatnot. I wanted to be a road train driver for a bit but found it hard to get on a job so I stayed with the US Government up at the RAAF base. The biggest dozer I ever operated was a D-7 and I was taking a hill down and it took several weeks with the dozer, loader and two dumps and the uke. A lot of rock then it turned to sand. I would have thought being down unde that Japanese parts would be more available than cat parts?

Northart

04-11-2008, 01:03 PM

The answer to WHO makes the Best dozer , is Caterpillar. :)

Your asking about a manufacturer, not a particular machine.

A testimonial would be the rebuild factor. The population of old Cats rebuilt over and over, still going strong, far out numbers any other brand.

CM1995

04-11-2008, 09:13 PM

I don`t know what to say, I`m nervous that if I don`t agree with what has been said I won`t be worthy.

Well LDK - opinions are like .................... everyone has one. I myself, know that I am opinionated and have been called the other, LOL.:D

Anyway, that is my opinion after demo'ing both machines, side by side and making my decision to purchase upon what I experienced. What I stated was my opinion, you don't have to agree ( and don't expect anyone else too) but if you are offended by my opinion, then that is your issue.

Deas Plant

04-12-2008, 03:22 AM

Hi, Euclid.
I'm a W.A. native, worked agricultural contracting, dam sinking, blade clearing, chaining, raking, etc., worked on 3 iron ore rail projects, worked at Mount Goldsworthy - briefly - and Tom Price - even more briefly - and a season on Mitchel Plateau in the Kimberley on bauxite exploration. Worked on numerous road and sub-division jobs and one moderate-sized earth wall dam South of Perth before transferring to Sydney with Leighton Contractors in mid 1972. Worked in various places up and down the coast of N.S.W. over the next 20-odd years and moved to Queensland in 1993. I've been here ever since and I'm comfortable.

Other people have their own experiences with spares and service on Japanese machines. Once upon a time, Kato excavators were KING down here but they seem to have all but vanished from the scene, I believe due to pricing. Now Hitachi and Komatsu seem to have a large slice of the market between them and Cat has a good slice too. I don't know how good Komatsu's service is for its excavators.

How-wevver, The people I know who have Komatsu dozers and loaders seem to like the machine to operate but are less than favourably impressed with the service life and service back-up. Just my observation and feedback I have received.

td8

04-12-2008, 06:18 PM

I don't know which brand is the best i guess it is what u perfer.But i do know from experience that the older dozers are much easier to work on.I've ran cat and deere and dresser dozers they all did the job.I don't know much about komatsu dozers but i've bought alot of komatsu parts for my old td8. Our local komatsu dealer has been great about getting parts.

equipment fan

04-12-2008, 06:27 PM

it`s been a long time that i read this topic and personnally,i think that everybody think that a particular brand make the best dozer.For example,i would prefer the visibility of the new d51px but i would choose another one because it`s more tough,durable and offer more options or something like that,well,there is juste my opinion...

Iron Slinger

04-13-2008, 11:45 PM

Komatsu is a force out there. The new D51EX-22 is a true "finish dozer" you will not find a machine with the visibility and power that this tractor has

equipment fan

04-14-2008, 08:00 AM

Komatsu is a force out there. The new D51EX-22 is a true "finish dozer" you will not find a machine with the visibility and power that this tractor has

well,i think that there will be some competition between the Deere 764HSD and the komatsu D51ex-22.They are all finish dozer but i don`t know who will be more versatile.IS an articulated frame would be better than a rigid chassis with metal track?

Construct'O

04-14-2008, 09:38 AM

Their will be places that the Deere will be handicapped because of its length in tight places.Not sure how it will do on steep slopes?

In speed and just finish work would go to the Deere.Just a couple thoughts.Carry on !!!!:usa

Deas Plant

04-14-2008, 10:09 AM

Hi, Folks.
Over the last 12 to 15 years, we have seen the evolvement of what amounts to a whole new class of dozer, the 'finish' dozer. Various people talk about the virtues of various machines and, like most other things in life, it depends largely upon your own personal tastes and preferences One thing does amuse me a little about all the 'palaver' that goes on about this topic though. That is all the talk about 'suitability'.

Back in the days when I first started operating dozers, there were no 'finish' dozers as such. The 'finish' dozer was whatever happened to be under you at the time. The man who taught me most about operating dozers once shaped a drive-in movie theatre car park with a cable angle-blade 3T series Cat D7 dozer - - - - travelling across the ripples - - - without a tilt cylinder on the blade. Not only did he shape the sub-grade but he also spread the road base - BOTH 5" layers of it - the same way. And they cleaned up after him and finished the job ready for bitumen spray and stone-chip seal with a 3 point linkage grader blade behind a Ferguson tractor and a 3-point roller.

The same man and a friend of his levelled and trimmed a 100 yard square factory site with 2 3T series D7's with cable angle blades using boning rods for levels and they were within +/- ONE INCH all over it.

I personally have done house sites, factory sites, roads and school play grounds to similar tolerances with similar machines. I once excavated a pit for a new weighbridge with a Cat D9G semi-U blade dozer to +/- an inch and there was no ground at the same level on either side of the blade for reference 'cos the trench was ONE blade width wide and 2 1/2 feet deep by 55 feet long. (Trucks in those days in that part of the world had a length limit of 50 feet.) We used the D9G partly because the pit was in rippable shale and partly 'cos that was what we had available that would do the job quickest

I spent some of my mis-spent youth sinking farm dams with dozers ranging from D4 2T series through to D9G's, mostly with Cat D8's. Left-over windrows 2" high were counted as a ROUGH job and banks and batters were ripple-free as a matter of both course and pride.

I have 'graded' haul roads in all sorts of materials with everything from D4D's to D11R's and I have been told by several people that you can't trim with a D11 'cos they're too big. I have also been told that you can't trim with a 'Kummagutsa' D575 for the same reason. I'd love to get my ample butt on a D575 for a while, just for the challenge. I just LOVE being told I can't do something with a particular machine. He, he, he, he, he, hee.

I recently spent almost 2 1/2 years levelling house pads to +/- 3/4 of an inch maximum with a wide gauge Cat D5B dozer while other operators in the same company were using Cat 943's and 953's with spreader bars to do the same work. I count the earlier work with the older cable blade machines a greater challenge.

And now we have laser- and GPS-controlled dozers which the operator just steers but have the working tolerances improved much, if any?

My point is this - to me, a 'finish' dozer - or any 'finish' machine - is whatever you happen to have your butt upon at the time. ANY operator worth his - or her - pay packet will do the best job he/she can with whatever machine he/she has available at the time. He/she may whinge about the machine, or the job, or the boss, or even all of the above BUT he/she will do it and do it well. THAT is one of the hallmarks of a TRUE operator.

Thank you, Soapbox.

Iron Slinger

04-14-2008, 08:28 PM

Nicely put Deas Plant. I tend to agree with you.
On the other hand, todays generation is relying heavily on dozers with greater visibility. Alot of it is driven by the tight quarters in which operators are working in today. In the big cities they are building amongst buildings.
I am blessed with the opportunity to do business with a few people that have the knowledge and experience that you have. I am always delighted to hear how it used to be, it makes me realize how good we have it today.
-Iron Slinger

DirtHauler

04-15-2008, 02:45 AM

American workers do, actually Union workers do, that is who makes the best dozer in the world.

Neil D

04-15-2008, 06:18 PM

Deas,you know sometimes your posts are a bit long winded etc but this time you are absolutely spot on you old devil !!!!

There is no way I will ever be as good an operator as you but I am gonna try.
One thing that will help me is the fact that most of my work will never involve GPS systems which means the old grey cells get a workout. This is the problem I see with these new systems,they take away the driving skills until someday they will start paying peanuts because all they will need is monkeys to pull levers.

Neil

DirtWorker

04-15-2008, 07:30 PM

Ok here is what i think. For me finish/trim dozer-ing is all about feel in the seat. Take this for example, the new dx 51 has its cab justified to the front of the tractor, while the old Cat C's,B,s and G's have you sit in the back. To me this gives me a better sense in the seat when i need to correct. This new Komatsu you sit in the middle and to me never run the px or dx 51 would take away from the feel. Take a swing set for example sit your butt in the middle and swing then sit back and see if you can notice the different im talking about. to of blade visibility means nothing to me. It may to you. So in short im a CAT man trough and trough. But i can say this, the Komatsu 37 i ran is the only dozer of my knowledge that when you have the blade tilted all the way left or right material doesn't flow around the blade and high sides your track. It also didnt have a turbo, we all know turbos eat the fuel. This little baby was inner and after cooled. I liked Deeres 450 h for its power and quick hydraulics. But again the seat was just to far to the center for my feel. Who knows maby im just set in the ways that i learned. The way i see it it wont matter much what the brand soon enough just who has the most fuel efficient dozer. And to me komatsu has that handled these days. But ill stick with my Cat.

Deas Plant

04-16-2008, 08:52 AM

Hi, Neil D.
Thanks for the compliments, both back-handed and fore-handed. LOL.

You say that you'll never be as good an operator as I am. May I suggest that you don't judge yourself too harshly. I've had a LOTTA practice now to get where I am and there are quite possibly some things that you are still better at anyway, especially in your neck of the woods with its different conditions from the ones I'm used to here in Australia.

And, if you're trying to catch up to me, who am I trying to catch up to? I seriously doubt that I'm the best in the world, so there is somebody better than me somewhere. Would you please have him/her stand up and show him/herself so that I can know who I am chasing and how much I have to improve? LOL.

I have a different approach to that one. I don't try to be better than anybody else. I just try to be better than me. Does that makes sense? And that comes from analyzing what you are doing and the results that you are getting from what you're doing and then working out how you can do it better next time. So, rather than trying to catch up to me or anybody else, try to (sur)pass yourself.

Burnout

04-16-2008, 02:28 PM

Whats a Finish Dozer? Even when I gre up (end of the 80's to the 90's) my old man told me our finish dozer was whatever was sitting there. Now I work for a company that we consider a D8N or a 9N our finish dozers when we leave a site, I have been told to grade near and around a house with my 973 while the guy across the street is doin it with a little 450 Deere.

I look now at whats considered a finish dozer ie. a D51, Deere 450, Cat 3G and I think small dozers have been getting bigger over the years. Back here in Ontario guys are still running old Deere 350's and International TD7's with open cabs. I always thought they were the true finish dozers for smaller site grading, you could be one with the land and truly feel the ground as you were grading. The company I work for now, our smallest dozer is a custom D4H with 36" pads, open cab and a monster of a wide blade on it, and I find you can't really feel the ground like you can with those little old dozers of yesteryear. But in the same token I have now learned to do finish work with a D8N.

I think yeah the technology is getting amazing for equipment, especially for my generation that loves the gizmo's and electronics and nice machines, but like what was said above, are the tolerances getting better? I had a chat with one of the Cat guys at Con Expo about it. Guys on our sites complain about equipment more than a couple years old because its not equipped to do the job we need to do, but its been doing the job for 20 or 30 years already in some cases. Do we really need all this new fangled technology? My buddy started up a trim dozing company a few years ago when he got out of college. He went and bought an old 450-C JD, we fixed it up, rebuilt the engine, put a nice high back seat in it, in total he had 7000 dollars in a dozer that he still charges 90 bucks an hour for, and it's paid for itself.

Northart

04-16-2008, 03:20 PM

Definition of a Finish Dozer ?

Its the dozer most suited to the task at hand.

For example , a Cat D4C,G Hystat for residential, commercial site work.

A Cat D6C,D,M,N,K class size machine for Hyway cleanup and finishing.

A Cat D8K,R,T for pipeline, large land restoration projects. The Angle dozers are most suited here.

So it is the size of machine that matters, in relation to the size of the job. Small dozers for small jobs ,and large dozers for the large jobs. No one size, fits all, as in baseball caps.

Then again, somedays just have to use the equipment that is available.

WabcoMan

04-16-2008, 06:26 PM

Deere dozers are great, well balanced and a pleasure to operate.
I don't much care for the larger Cat's in ripping as they tend to ride around on the front idlers.
My old Terex 82-30 did a better job of ripping, you could bury the shanks in no time and it just kept going.
My 2c worth
WabcoMan

MUDSLINGERS

04-16-2008, 11:50 PM

I totally agree with it is what machine is under your pants at the time!! When I started really getting into cutting grade in Arizona D8 to D11 was what the old timers made me first start on, and after a while I found it easier on a big dozer than a little one!!! Then I moved backed to Oklahoma and started running smallier dozers and cat was great, until I got on 41 komatsu and I fell in love cause I could see more, and it felt more balanced.. Here about a month ago my company bought me the new 51ex, and guys I'm telling you I have not been on a better finish dozer!!! I can see everything, and enjoy the balance, and it is just the most comfortable dozer I have ever been on!!! I know I still have alot of years to go before I call myself a finish operator, but this machine is awsome!!!!!!

Deas Plant

04-17-2008, 06:44 AM

Hi, Iron Slinger.
Welcome to the forum.

I first started operating when I was 12 on a gas/kero Cat 22 and a gas only Cat 20. On both of these, even a little tacker like I was then could see both corners of the blade and the ground behind the cutting edge between the tracks and the engine. Easy. Then I gradutated to a 2T series D4 - 1945 vintage with an angle blade. Again, pretty good visibility. Next came a 3T Cat D7 and an Allis Chalmers HD16A, both with angle blades and both with pretty fair vision to the blade. Still easy.

While I was running the HD16, I got to have a 2-hour play with a D9G. Culture shock! The closest part of the back of the blade to the ground that you could see was 10" - TEN inches - above the ground. I was surprised at how easy it was to judge that distance with just a little practice.

Then I got to play with my first Cat D8H 46A dozer with a semi-U blade and the corners and the back of the blade were still visible. Easy again. Then I started spending a LOT more time on D9G's and eventually D9H's and I learned to like the fact that I couldn't see the cutting edge or any part of the blade even near it. Coupled with that up-sloping hood, there was a fair bit of real estate in front of the machine that you just could not see. To me, it was a challenge.

Then I got on my first Cat wheeled dozer, an 824. About the only part of the blade that you could see when it was on the ground was the top of it. I learned to do some pretty neat work with that too. Likewise with the Cat 815 and 825 compactors where all you can see is the top of the blade.

I once was sent to spread fresh crushed blue rock sand on a trotting training track with a 25 year old 2U Cat D8 with a rather worn, loose and sloppy cable angle blade. Now THAT was interesting. It was the first time I had seen that particular machine and I didn't know any of its tricks and vagaries. It's a good thing they had a tractor with a 3-pl grader blade there to tidy up. I got it close but there would still likely have been some shin-sore horses if they'd used it straight after I'd done my best that jigger. But I did get to do some fairly fiddly work with it later on.

Now I might ruffle a few feathers here but I'm going to say it anyway. For mine, a 'finish dozer operator' just isn't a FINISH dozer operator until he or she can do it with whatever is available that will fit into the work space with room to work. Sure, it's all well and nice to have good visibility, balance, A/C cabs and all the rest of it but I still reckon that being a real operator is about being able to the job well with whatever is available and without all the fancy gizmos if need be.

Just my 0.02.

stretch

04-17-2008, 08:25 AM

Now I might ruffle a few feathers here but I'm going to say it anyway. For mine, a 'finish dozer operator' just isn't a FINISH dozer operator until he or she can do it with whatever is available that will fit into the work space with room to work. Sure, it's all well and nice to have good visibility, balance, A/C cabs and all the rest of it but I still reckon that being a real operator is about being able to the job well with whatever is available and without all the fancy gizmos if need be.

Just my 0.02.

:notworthy More words of wisdom from HEF's wise monk. :drinkup

mitchell2905

04-17-2008, 12:25 PM

Here are someopinions on the Yellow and Blue iron:
http://http://www.stripmine.org/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/wwwboard/stripmine?cmd=get&cG=83037303&zu=38303639&v=2&gV=1&p=#8070

http://http://www.stripmine.org/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/wwwboard/stripmine?cmd=get&cG=2303232333&zu=3230323131&v=2&gV=0&p=

AtlasRob

04-17-2008, 01:36 PM

Hi, Neil D.
Thanks for the compliments, both back-handed and fore-handed. LOL.

I don't try to be better than anybody else. I just try to be better than me. Does that makes sense? And that comes from analyzing what you are doing and the results that you are getting from what you're doing and then working out how you can do it better next time. So, rather than trying to catch up to me or anybody else, try to (sur)pass yourself.

Deas, that has got to be one of the best responses to a serious compliment that I have heard in a long time. :notworthy
All you young uns take note. As usual he is right 100% :thumbsup
There will always be somebody better than you can learn something from. The day you stop learning is the day you need to find another occupation cause you will have just found out you are in the wrong one :D :IMO

Northart

04-17-2008, 01:50 PM

Well, long as we're flogging the subject. Let me flog it some more.

" For mine, a 'finish dozer operator' just isn't a FINISH dozer operator until he or she can do it with whatever is available that will fit into the work space with room to work "

I do not know of any female dozer operators here. They all want to run loaders,compactors, etc. Rubber tired equipment.

It takes a skilled operator , meaning talent(Operating Skills) plus dirt moving experience, to create a finish grade. The different soil types, sand,gravel,clay, rock,organic, all need to be worked differently. It takes talent and experience to cut finish grade for floor slabs,building pads,with tight tolerances. Those same skills are necessary in clean up and topsoil spreading,for hyway work. Got to have an eye for drainage. Remembering no duck ponds or bird baths when you are all done. Balance the material and make it fit. All comes with experience, little by little.

Then the talent or creativity , some people just have it and other never do. To clean up a borrow pit , or road job, where it looks like a bomb had went off or war took place, into something beautiful, scenic, and eye pleasing , takes some thought. Challenging to say the least.

Then of course machine selection for the task, is important to say the least. It's got to be able to fit ( Size) in the work space, required, and also be productive (Size again).:)

Well, I almost missed touching on the GPS,Laser guided dozers. Yes, they shorten the time required for task, but it still takes spatial skills , understanding how the job is to look when done.

Well , in summary, 'Spatial Skills" is the key word. Understanding how the job is to look when done. :)

I always thought my high school Plane Geometry, was most valuable in my career. Definitive form and free form, just in understanding those mathematical terms. :)

Neil D

04-17-2008, 06:49 PM

Deas,you are a hard man to get the better of LOL.

What I was trying to get across was that I can appreciate from your posts you know exactly what you are doing operating a machine. I have never seen your operating skills so I am not saying you are the number one and I want to steal your "crown" as it were. I am stating that you and a lot of the other guys on this board have my greatest respect as you all are grouped together as a bunch of highly competant operators. I am not into this crap of one man being totally above the rest-I find in my business it is great to work with other guys who are all thinking together with the job flowing like clockwork and running safely because we trust each other. As you know Deas from earlier posts I have been around various machines all my working life but it is only now at the age of 49 I have the chance to run my own big dozer and scrapers. So what I meant earlier was that no matter how hard I try I will never have the seat time that you and rest of the gang have-its also easier to admit this now rather than be reminded of it by you lot,lol.

So have a nice day
Regards
Neil

Big Jake

04-17-2008, 07:29 PM

I got a d3 and i have no complaints.

Deas Plant

04-18-2008, 04:02 AM

Hi, Neil D.
The actual amount of seat time is not the REALLY important thing here, Mate. The REALLY important thing is what you achieve with the seat time you do have and how much you learn from it. In 1966, at age 21, I was the youngest operator on the night shift rock crew on the Hammersley Rail Project in Western Australia. When we could finally get our hands on a D9G to put into the last - and biggest - rock cut, it was given to me and I had the least experience in terms of seat time of any of the operators on my shift.

A couple of weeks earlier, I had been sent up the line with a D8 to spread fill from the 12 cu. yd Marion 191M face shovel and 3 x 65 cu. yd, 100 tons capacity Kenworth Dart rear dumps when they excavated 2 smaller cuts as the 12 yd face shovel walked its way from that big cut up to the mine at Mount Tom Price. Nobody ever said anything to me about why I was sent with that crew but I'd guess it had something to with my ability to run a spreading dozer and maintain a fill in good shape. There was no supervision with that crew. There was the shovel operator, 3 dump truck drivers, a spotter and me, and I was the youngest of all of them.

If you're running your own gear and making a go of it, you must have learned something about the game somewhere along the way. Keep doing it while ever it's still FUN.

I don't HAVE a crown, so you can't steal it. However, you can make one of your own for your own personal use by always striving to improve your skills and do the job better, quicker, whatever it might be. If you can see something that looks like a challenge, go for it. You'll hone your skills and learn something from it at the same time.

AtlasRob, I tend to put it another way. If you ever stop learning in this (or any other) game, you're dead from the neck up.

Northart, I have always maintained that a key ingredient in the make-up of a good operator is imagination. If you can't imagine what the finished product should look like, how can you work toward achieving that look? And you usually find that intelligent people have the best imaginations. 'Dumb' operators?

Northart

04-18-2008, 02:03 PM

Hello Deas Plant,

Well I certainly agree with all you have said. But I have to cast another line of thought in here.

The construction world can't wait for the Operators to hone their skills over 30 years or so,or churn over the labor force, just to get a few good ones. The old guys are retiring faster than the replacing generation, leaving an industry shortage. Every company wants highly skilled operators.

Some Operators get there by OJT (On the Job Training), some just plug along , content to be just semiskilled. MSHA is pushing the Training aspect because of Safety. Reducing the Fatalities and accidents.

Then there are the Apprenticeship Programs and Journeyman Upgrade Training programs put on by the Unions. Introductory and advanced.

There are also some private schools and colleges that offer construction courses.

Then there is the GPS,Laser, and all other computer controlled grade tools,designed to increase productivity.

All these are designed to produce a skilled,competent, operator , quicker , than by the old traditional methods. Increasing the population of skilled , competent operators.

As for computers taking the skilled operators work away, I say, due to the increased cost of equipment,fuel,compliance with all the new environmental laws,etc. productivity has to be increased, to maintain an industry. New skills in the use of the computer equipment have to be learned.

Manpower will still be present,:) just a different breed of operators skilled in reading,listening,interacting to a computer monitor, versus our old ways of doing things.

Anyway , just some thoughts for the readers.

Deas Plant

04-19-2008, 01:01 AM

Hi, Northart.
Cat make the best dozers above D6 size or equivalent - that's just so I don't get hassled for thread-jacking. LOL.

I agree that training is an increasingly important part of creating a good skilled operator. I would guess that DownUnder lags a little behind the U.S. and maybe Canada in that respect. There is no government, union, industry or employer sponsored nation-wide training program that I am aware of. There are a number of independent operator training schools scattered across the country which turn out "operators" with varying degrees of success and acceptability. The industry in general does not seem to have a high opinion of the 'graduates' of these schools.

I suspect that everybody is hoping that somebody else will bite the bullet and start doing something constructive about addressing the problem. Meanwhile, there are less and less truly skilled operators and especially multi-skilled ones, available for a construction/civil engineering industry that is growing reasonably quickly, not to mention all the mines and quarries that are looking for skilled operators as well. There needs to be a shift of thinking among employers so that they start their own in-house training programs to supply their own needs for skilled operators and other staff

It is hard to get employers to invest time and money in training anybody for anything when there is always a risk that, at the end of the training, the trainee will depart for greener pastures. It is equally hard to get across to them that if they train newcomers in the way they want things done, they will have employees who know the company ropes and are more likely to do things the company way - assuming always of course that they pay at least the going rate to their freshly trained employees.

Maybe JD make good small dozers. I don't know. I have not run a JD dozer since about 1996 and that was a 10 year old JD 850. It still ran and handled well but it was/is not the current generation. (See? Still on thread. LOL.)

bear

04-22-2008, 08:02 AM

I like the smaller Komatsu's and Deere dozers. As far as larger ones a D series Cat is the ticket. I've used the smaller dozers for pioneering trails and roads for electrical utilities that includes pulling heavy electrical conductor and dragging trucks to where the poles are/will be set. We used them every day doing stuff on rock and dirt, seemed to hold up good did have a hard time with hoses because of trees and roots(never would put guards on). I've used medium sized Cats, Komatsu's, and the odd Deere. The Deere and Komatsu didn't seem to hold up well and the work wasn't very difficult or the terrain very bad. "that's all I have to say 'bout that" (Forrest Gump)

Deas Plant

04-22-2008, 08:55 AM

Hi, AtlasRob.
Deas, that has got to be one of the best responses to a serious compliment that I have heard in a long time. :notworthy All you young uns take note. As usual he is right 100% :thumbsup There will always be somebody better than you can learn something from. The day you stop learning is the day you need to find another occupation cause you will have just found out you are in the wrong one :D :IMO

I have always had the view that you can learn from the 'mugs' as well as the experts. (An 'ex' is either a has-been or an unknown quantity and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.) You may not learn how TO do something from the mugs but you can often learn how NOT to do it.

I have also for a long time had the view that it is good to learn from other people's mistakes 'cos it can save the problems, embarrassment, lost time and production and the possible injury of making those mistakes yourself.

And, just so that we stay on thread/topic, the original question that began this thread was, and I quote:

"which manufacture(r) makes the best dozer small to large???" (unquote.)

(I added the '(r)' 'cos 9420Pullpan left the 'r' off the end of 'manufacturer'.)

Now, for my money, there is one tiny minor detail lacking in that question. It doesn't specify whether we are looking at 'horses for courses', i.e. size, suitability and reliability of the machine for the sort of work that it was designed for, or whether we are looking at which manufacturer makes the overall 'BEST' machine.

F'rinstance, you wouldn't put a D11R Carrydozer landscaping around the average suburban house any more than you would put a JD650G stripping overburden in a 5-million-tons-a-year coal mine. BUT, you can compare how each machine performs the work for which it was designed on the basis of some criteria such as, suitability, production, reliability, operator friendliness, operating costs per unit of production and per hour.

So, 9420Pullpan, which is it, please? The overall BEST dozer or the best dozer for the work for which it was designed? AND, while we're at it, are we talking current models or 'of all time'?

CatSkinner77V

04-22-2008, 10:12 AM

Caterpillar, D8H (46a) and the D8K. The most legendary machines Caterpillar ever built. You can't help but imagine when the Benjimin Holt invented the tracked machine, thats excautly what he had in mind. the D8 that is. Well balanced, put power to the ground like nobody's business, reliable, (theres still likely around 70 percent of them still in service today). They do like thier fuel, and after 14,000 engine hours, (My K has 74,000 frame hours) they can get smoking on you. But hell, I drink and smoke alittle more than I should too. haha.

Who is kidding who here thow, they will move alot of material in an hour, and it takes fuel and wieght to move material. Just my 2 cents, but on a nice calm summer morning or evening I would much rather be on an open cab K or H compared to the fanciest highdrive out there.

MUDSLINGERS

04-24-2008, 09:41 PM

I Totally AGREE with you (Deas Plant) I love to hear and learn from real operators, and I would love to be on a job with you!! The guy who taught me and now is my boss and still a very good friend, always told me that he did not care if I was 100 years old you still got something to learn, and the older guys that I know that are good operators I could just sit and watch all day. Yea, I might have a dozer now that has a cab and all the glitz, but I really and honestly don't care because I have never had that stuff before.

All I am here to do IS learn and make myself a better dozer operator, and at the age of 29, I know I still have alot of years of learning ahead of me!!! So far I have made myself a fairly good finish dozer hand, and when them older guys call me and want me to come to there job and do dozer work that makes me want to try that much harder and learn that much more!! Anything I can learn from you guys is much more to me than that paycheck at the end of the week!!!!! I take operating as serious as my atv racing and that is SERIOUS!!!

Deas Plant

04-24-2008, 10:00 PM

Hi, Catskinner77V.
I'd take a Cat D9G for the same reasons that you've given for the D8H or K. The D9H was a good machine to operate but a little more prone to drive train troubles than the G series, due to the extra HP. Still, if somebody offered me the ride on one, it would take one very attractive (?)option to get me to turn it down. LOL.

CatSkinner77V

04-25-2008, 03:12 AM

Born at the junction and formed to function.... the hammer of the construction gods!!!!

alan627b

04-25-2008, 06:26 PM

I have spent this week learning to do my first real finishing dozer work with a D5C. It is very frustrating trying to everything look right, cutting slopes and topsoiling them,working on soft and fairly wet soil that has set since last December!
I've mostly been a scraper operator the last 15 years....and I don't claim to have a "1 tenth eye" but I'm doing the best I can! The old hands sure make it look easy.....Sure would be nice to have some instruction aid around intead of learning it all the hard way....although, some times it pays to be the only guy who shows up for work!
Hopefully, experience will help me learn to be better at planning my moves, but at least I'm better than I was Monday!
Practice, practice...
Alan627b

Deas Plant

04-25-2008, 07:35 PM

Hi, Alan627B.
Have you made an opportunity to check out the tracks rollers and undercarriage on that D5C yet? LOL.

Finishing work with a dozer, even more so than most other dozer work, is about 'feeling' your machine as much as about having an 'eye' for it. Wet material and slopes don't make any of it any easier and the fact that you are working with a lightly-loaded blade most of the time doesn't help either. However, as frustrating as it can be in the early stages of your learning, finishing work can be immensely rewarding when you look back and KNOW that YOU did that eye-pleasing job that you have managed to leave behind you.

It is a definite change from rushing madly around at about '90'(?) miles an hour on a scraper but, in case you haven't yet noticed, (LOL.) it is an entirely different type of work and patience, persistance and having a feel for your machine and an 'educated' eye are the keys to it.

Try to enjoy it anyway.

cr500

04-26-2008, 09:24 PM

Deas Plant, I would say that the main reason you have had a bad run with getting the dealer mechanics in your area is that all the diesel fitters in the area have run off to the mines to make the big bucks. (I left the particular dealership you are talking about to do the same thing). Now I have moved to another mining area in NSW which has a big population around it and the dealer has plenty of people to send out to a field service job, and can send out a dozer specialist if it is a tough one.
I agree it could be a bit of a pain with the labour shortage in SEQ at the moment.
Otherwise, I would say that the Cats cost a bit more but last a bit longer than the Komatsus.
Some operators say the Cats push better while MOST say the Komatsus push better.
Most operators in the mines say that the Cats are a bit smoother to operate.
Mechanics nearly all say the cats are easier to work on but are getting to complex with all the electronics and rubbish getting added on nowadays..

CatYelloBlooded

04-27-2008, 07:41 PM

I've worked on few Komatsu 375's around here and i'd say that the Cat's are much easier to work on. I'll take a D11R with a 3508B any day for that. Sadly, the electronics are coming up on all machines regardless of the brand and its going to be a rough world for all the little computers and emissions devices out there. Not looking forward to 2010!

Firecat11

05-06-2008, 08:28 PM

I have to agree that Caterpillar has the best parts and maintenance support BAR NONE!!! I would rather replace a final drive on a high track any day that to have to tear my machines completely apart.

The difficulty is that it all comes at a significant price. At my age I could not afford to replace all of my machines with cat models. That was the reason that I was able to buy the machines that I have and rebuild them to like new condition for the fraction of the cost of a new Cat.

I have ran D3, D4H, D6C,D D7E,G, D8H,K, D8L, D8R, D9L

Pound for pound Komatsu makes their crawlers a little heavier and more horsepower compared to Cats comparable models. Also, the older Komatsu tractors had cummins engines which makes it real easy to work on.

I now have the following:

D3 with pedal steer
D65E dozer w/ ripper 200HP custom built to fight forest fires
D85E dozer w/ ripper 250HP for dozing work
D355A dozer w/ ripper 500HP for deep ripping agricultural soil

:IMO:IMO

Deas Plant

05-07-2008, 07:00 AM

Hi, Firecat11.
You are entitled to your opinions and I respect them. If it works for you, go for it.

How-wevver, one part of your post did tickle me and I quote:

"Pound for pound Komatsu makes their crawlers a little heavier and more horsepower compared to Cats comparable models."

Is it not the case that if one manufacturer's machine is either heavier or lighter and/or more or less powerful than a competitor's machine, then they are not in the same class and thus not comparable?

Most of us have been aware of this 'Kummagutsa' approach to competition for many years now. I personally have also been aware that 'Kummagutsa' machines, with the exception of their excavators, seem to develop slack and wear in all sorts of places while their Cat 'comparable' competition is still 'nizentite'.

Just my 0.02.

Have you had your D355A re-powered? The D355A's that I remember were only 410 hp, which is exactly where the Cat D9H came in.

alco

05-07-2008, 01:53 PM

"Pound for pound Komatsu makes their crawlers a little heavier and more horsepower compared to Cats comparable models."

Is it not the case that if one manufacturer's machine is either heavier or lighter and/or more or less powerful than a competitor's machine, then they are not in the same class and thus not comparable?

Deas, while that would be true if the difference was significant, the difference referred to here is not enough to make a size class jump. Just enough to be a bit bigger and more powerful. I don't feel it is enough to give one machine an advantage over the other based on size or power alone.

Brian

dirt digger

05-07-2008, 02:21 PM

the best dozer is the one that is paid off

dirt digger

05-07-2008, 02:24 PM

I do like the D6 a lot though...we don't need a machine that big but I would love to run one

largest dozer i have run was a new D5

ravenseye

05-07-2008, 04:28 PM

Ifeel it all comes down to the operator any-way I have not heard any mention of the ukes c6 82-30 82-40 etc. I have just arrived on this site and it will take me some time to catch up. seeya By the way pussy cats are best

Firecat11

05-08-2008, 11:45 AM

Hi Deas Plant,

Thanks for the comments. I wish I could have all Cat machinery, but it just is not in the cards for me. So I did the next best thing....

Just like many others, I learned to operate a dozer at a young age. The first tractor I ran was an International TD-14 142 series. I have cut many miles of firebreaks since I was 10 years old. Now, International was famous for building their tractors with lighter frame housings and larger horsepower. As long as you were not dozing with them they would run forever. Most all of the farming operations out here ran TD-18's and TD-24's, at the time Cat did not have anything in the weight and power range. I should also mention that due to the lighter frame weights, the tractors were favored in the farming operations for lower ground pressure applications which reduced the build-up of the plow pans.

Komatsu had the opposite effect on the industry. Their frame designs were heavier and stronger so they were able to install larger displacement engines in which in turn they de-rated the engine horsepower. Most pre-electronic controlled dozers have the capability of increasing the horsepower by as much as 30%.

All my tractors have been reworked to increase the horsepower. Usually it involves increasing the injector stroke, larger turbo compressor housing and changing the exhaust manifold. The D65E was the easiest. A turbo was added and the injector clearance was changed. They are the simplest to work on. My tractor still has the NH 220 cummins, while most of my friends remove that engine and install an 855 cid motor, usually a NTA 335 in which they de-rate to 250 horsepower. Right now I am set at just over 200 horsepower and with extreme service undercarriage you have to be careful not to spin the tracks.

The D355A-3 has an SD series engine that is based on the KTA-1150 cummins. You are correct that in the stock setting they were 410 horsepower. The motor is capable of 525 continuous horsepower in a stationary application such as on a Genset. But in the tractor it produces too much heat for the stock pistons. The tractor runs with 18 psi of manifold boost pressure and an exhaust temperature of around 1050 degrees Fahrenheit. The tractor has a 4 barrel multi-shank ripper. It usually pulls two 10 ft long ripper shanks that are set so that 7 ft is stuck out below the ripper beam. With the ripper tucked up the tractor rips with an effected depth of five and a half to six feet, depending on the quantity of hard pan.

Thanks for all of the comments.:usa

Note: All horsepower is referred to as net flywheel.

Firecat11

05-08-2008, 07:12 PM

Here are some pics of the tractor.

CM1995

05-08-2008, 08:19 PM

the best dozer is the one that is paid off

I whole heartedly agree with that statement.

CAT D9H

05-08-2008, 10:28 PM

Well I think its really personal preferance , but if I were to pick its Cat all the way , I think john deere had no idea what they were trying to do when they built dozers they seem way too light, all day long spinnin tracks even in dry, loose dirt, as for an 850 deere they arent too bad but still dont hold a candle to a machine similar in size that says Cat , but as far as Cat small dozers go they could be better the only ones I have really liked are the D3C's and D5G's or M's but D6 on up , for Me its Cat all the way , I have also heard that komatsu is making some great small dozers

ravenseye

05-14-2008, 05:40 PM

Hello folks I have operated many dozers and found cat is the most reliable to pick out one is not easy however I did own a cat d7e and it was an allround machine and it would be an excellent machine to run today with the high cost of gas oil. The dozer being direct drive could work with little throttle on light jobs. The only reason I sold it was because it had been vandalised a few times and I did not wish to spend much mony on it. I replaced it wih a komatsu d85e and that was a mistake I can tell you however it would take all night to do so. Another favourite dozer is a d9g it would work all day and night not like the newer models which seem to be sore on under carriage. see ya

ravenseye

05-14-2008, 06:12 PM

Uploaded photo hope it works oops sorry wrong photo anyway this was a great dog

ravenseye

05-14-2008, 06:54 PM

Here is a photo of the dozer waiting for the ground to dry up to get started a top-soil strip she was pullng a cat 435 scraper however I managed to get a Cat s7 which was a better size especially in heavier clay etc.

CAT DEMONSTR8R

05-22-2008, 12:07 AM

Hey everyone! Nice looking forum with some interesting topics and users. U can prob guess what i do for a living by my username. Its a pretty interesting Job to say the least and yes i am partial to CAT even though my Dad only runs komatsu dozers. ( always a painfull subject to explain to my boss lol I would be really interested in some unbias feedback for our new lineup such as the K series dozers and the M series blades. (even though i think i might be better off asking for a kick in the nutts for the latter). If i start getting bashed to bad ill just post up Phils cell phone number since he was the head consultant for the M series lol. He likes it when u call him real late lol.

mntman552

05-22-2008, 12:50 AM

Cat for me. Started out operating a d3 c and d4 c series 2. Moved up to an D7H and an D8k. Then to an 8r. Now I mainly run an D11 in the production push. We have R models and just got a couple T's. Had a chance to run one of the new ones the last couple nites. The new cab design is alot nicer you can see alot more in the front. having the caes screen low on the dash is nice so u dont have to have it in the front window. The HID lights are really nice the seem about 10 times brighter than our other dozer lights. Other than that not alot different than the R models maybe just a little more power. The catwalk on the back of the fuel tank also reduces a little visibility for ripping but its minor.

MUDSLINGERS

07-06-2008, 03:31 AM

Hey CATDEMONSTR8R get ahold of me!!! I run alot of kom and volvo and we could do alot of swapping info!! Here where I'm from is pretty much all komatsu or j.d... Me personaly, I just got a new 51 Komatsu and love it get a hold of me, we could do some damage!!!

MKTEF

07-06-2008, 03:30 PM

Firecat11; Can you please post some pics for us?:)
I bet many here wants to see pics of your tuned up Komatsu's.

Maybee we can get some modification ideas....:D

Dozer575

07-06-2008, 08:16 PM

Up till the demise of the D8K and D9H, and the name of the company"CATERPILLAR TRACTOR COMPANY", Caterpillar was the best for large tractors.
Since the end of those nice dozers and the company name, Komatsu took over the best large dozer.
I think that Cat is going to start a downward trend in its equipment quality soon. And who knows who will have the best dozer in the future. I guess it will be who ever keeps its manufacturing at home and doesn't send it all to china. Cat has already given up on making class 8 truck engines, whats next?

Steve Frazier

07-06-2008, 09:44 PM

Bob, everyone here is getting tired of your rant. Without some kind of explanation to your opinion, which you have not done here, you have no credibility. That being said, I am truly beginning to believe that your only purpose here is to cause distention on the Board and it WILL NOT be tolerated.

This is your final warning, and I've made it public here so everyone knows that we've all had enough. Unless you have something constructive to add to a thread, you would be better served to remain silent.

RollOver Pete

07-06-2008, 09:50 PM

:popcorn

catchick

07-06-2008, 11:27 PM

I think john deere had no idea what they were trying to do when they built dozers they seem way too light, all day long spinnin tracks even in dry, loose dirt, as for an 850 deere they arent too bad but still dont hold a candle to a machine similar in size that says Cat ,

NU UH. My 850 isn't too light, she don't spin no matter what i'm in, and i've packed coal springs on top of some serious mud, she walks through and then some.***

I am a firm believer in "It's all in the operator" My boss one day decided he would come and help me for a bit out of sheer boredom, and that's when we realised when my boss runs the D6H XL next to my 850J even he says he looks foolish compared to me. My 850 pushes circles around him, (We were pushing O/B from the haul trucks, clay, coal and gravel) it levels better and has a way cuter operator in it;). And that right there is a fact.

AtlasRob

07-07-2008, 02:14 PM

NU UH. My 850 isn't too light, she don't spin no matter what i'm in, and i've packed coal springs on top of some serious mud, she walks through and then some.***

I am a firm believer in "It's all in the operator" My boss one day decided he would come and help me for a bit out of sheer boredom, and that's when we realised when my boss runs the D6H XL next to my 850J even he says he looks foolish compared to me. My 850 pushes circles around him, (We were pushing O/B from the haul trucks, clay, coal and gravel) it levels better and has a way cuter operator in it;). And that right there is a fact.

:D Amen, dont think anybody is going to disagree with that last line. As for the rest of the post :beatsme :D

Dozer575

07-08-2008, 12:22 AM

Okay.

I don't want to be banished from being able to ask questions if need be.
I enjoy alot of the posts on this site.

Deas Plant

07-08-2008, 04:13 AM

Hi, Folks.
This'll be interesting. Anybody want to take bets on how long this will last?????????

How long will it be before you just can't help yourself, Bob?

Personally, I'm quite happy to have you continue to post here as the odd one or two of your posts do have some merit. Trouble is, you post an awful lot of posts with lesser value between them.

And where are your photos?

nextdoor

07-08-2008, 08:12 AM

Gday all, This one is for Deas- I was reading a few posts ago and you made mention of land clearing in the south west of WA. I was wondering if the D9E that you talked about belonged to the Moore family as they did a heck of a lot back then. (they also purchased the 1st D9 into WA). Old Lionel Moore (dec) was one of the finest on a dozer. thankyou.

Deas Plant

07-08-2008, 08:35 AM

Hi, Nextdoor.
Welkum too ther forum.

Yep, it was the Moore Brothers of whom I spoke. I worked for Cec Moore for a short time in about 1966, running a Cat D7 17A, doing some clearing on his own farm. It had one of the most cantankerous pilot motors that I have ever come across. IF you covered it at night with a wheat bag or similar, you could usually get it going with only about 3/4 of an hour of cranking. Leave it uncovered and you could be there cranking for 1 1/2 hours to get it started.

I think they bought the first TWO D9's into Western Australia. As I understand it, they bought the pair of them to go chaining in the heavy timber of South-west W.A., using a 3" anchor chain. At times, they used Cec's D7 as a chaser. I never got stuck with that job. I never did get to run either of those D9's either.

nextdoor

07-08-2008, 08:50 AM

Wow small world huh? Lionel Moores son is my neighbour now and I got to know Lionel through him. As for chaining we have had various machines here from the D47U to D8s and a few inters and a AD12 tony ( cost us alot but I liked old tony to use). I have almost finished restoring the D4 (1952) it also has cost a bomb but sure looks a treat. We done our last bit of chaining 2 years ago and there isnt to be anymore. I like the job just not the rest of the work that comes after pulling it down! Thanks for the reply.

Deas Plant

07-08-2008, 09:42 AM

Hi, Nextdoor.
So if it's not a rude question, where is home? I still have a brother living in Albany, a sister in Armidale and another sister in Beverley. I spent my first 10 years at Bruce Rock, the next 5 at Denmark, the next 5 at Trayning and the rest until mid-1972 wandering all over the West. Then I transferred to Sydney with Leighton's and it took 3 months short of 28 years to get back to W.A..

nextdoor

07-09-2008, 12:09 AM

Gday Deas, Im in Narembeen (60km east) so no doubt you would know the area well. Who knows you may have cleared here once? Cheers

Sparffo

07-09-2008, 11:40 AM

the next 5 at Denmark,

Did you eat any donuts with chockolade? :D the Danish are famous for them, besides these mohammed drawings :D
I'm not shure on this one, but i would guess they have a lot of good looking girls there also ***

the best dozer? one that works and isin't under 10 tonnes or 90hp :cool:

Deas Plant

07-10-2008, 03:48 AM

Hi, Sparffo.
He, he, he. I got another one. No chocolate doughnuts. That Denmark over near you ISN'T the only one in the world. There is at least one other, a town down on the South Coast of Western Australia. I lived there for 5 years, the last 5 years of my schooling as it happened. Then I went out to work and really started learning. LOL.

Hi, Nextdoor.
I don't know Narembeen much at all. I was 10 when we left Bruce Rock for Denmark. I went through Narembeen in 2001 in my wanderings around W.A. when I went back there for my nephew's wedding - haven't been back since. I've lived on this side totally since mid-1972, except for 2 brief visits back there for weddings in 2000 and 2001.

trackfanatic

07-17-2008, 09:55 AM

Found my way here while looking for a new toy. God I love the internet.
I'm with Deas on the backup service problems of every dozer manufacturer except Cat in Queensland. I own a small komatsu dozer and while it's been good parts availibility is a problem. Against which fuel economy is far better than the 4D/E competition,
It's also the one thats due for an upgrade. The existing machine is a D31E-18 which is now 20 years old and has 17000 frame hours. It is allegedly kept for the small jobs, mostly clearing fencelines and small earthworks, but tends to be thrown at things that are lets say excessive for it. Given that I want to replace it with another newer machine of similar size, which of the newer ones is the toughest.
Also which is the easiest to work on when you're in the middle of no-where and the only idiot swinging spanners is me. No dealer fitter with a laptop, because the nearest one of them is 10 hours drive away, just doing things the old fashioned way. The drawback of common rail systems, computer diagnostics, blade control systems etc is that you can't just fix her in situ. The only drawback of working on the existing machine is the way everything is jammed in to keep it compact. I have the technology.
So which of the smaller machines is now the best dozer?