Is It Possible To Prevent Lawn Damage???

[Dougster]

I am still "new" to the world of rubber-tracked mini-excavators. My paying work in the past has mostly been performed with my 41 HP Mahindra tractor with its R4 tires and its FEL, backhoe, 3-point implements, etc. While I used to tear up lawns a little doing really tough jobs, my new (to me) Yanmar VIO35-3 mini-excavator has a nasty habit of tearing up lawns just about anywhere it goes.

Even when I endeavor to keep the tracks moving as uniformly as possible as much as possible... I still end up with some pretty serious and ugly lawn damage... ruts and ripped up turf. It has gone so far that I've decided to leave the mini-ex home for this week's digging job and do it all with the tractor's backhoe because I'll need to cross the client's lawn (including some tight turns) to get to the several backyard work locations.

Am I missing something here? Was I expecting too much for a 3.5 ton mini-ex to be reasonably kind to turf? Are there tricks or things to watch out for in order to to minimize lawn damage? Does anyone sell tracks that are kinder to lawns? Or would that defeat the usefulness of having a mini-ex of this weight and size in the first place? :confused: Help!!! :o

Dougster™ :usa

[bear]

There's always going to be some damage. I'm not really up on min-ex's but usually the same rules apply. If ya can get his attention (always searching for another pink hardhat *** :rolleyes: ) our famous thread hijacker/moderator Squizzy should have some good info for you. On a more even keel it sounds like you're doing the right things, might possibly be the type of tracks you have. Good luck.

[landrvrnut22]

When it's wet, we put plywood down on grass, to keep from damaging lawns. It especially helps when turning.

[euclid]

When it's wet, we put plywood down on grass, to keep from damaging lawns. It especially helps when turning.
My thoughts too but felt it was to simple to mention. A little extra work but a saves the fill in later.

[Dougster]

There's always going to be some damage. I'm not really up on min-ex's but usually the same rules apply. If ya can get his attention (always searching for another pink hardhat *** :rolleyes: ) our famous thread hijacker/moderator Squizzy should have some good info for you. On a more even keel it sounds like you're doing the right things, might possibly be the type of tracks you have. Good luck.
Squizzy is Da Man! He has already helped me! :D And yes, it appears that the aftermarket tracks on my mini-ex may be more aggressive and higher surface contact pressure than stock. I don't think they are helping me at all.
When it's wet, we put plywood down on grass, to keep from damaging lawns. It especially helps when turning.
My thoughts too but felt it was to simple to mention. A little extra work but a saves the fill in later.
Don't assume I know anything guys! ;) I've never had to throw down anything before this. But as a one man show, hauling in a bunch of plywood is going to cost me both time and money. May I ask, for a typical residential job (i.e., a job where you must protect the lawn), how much plywood are we talking about here and what thickness do you normally use? :confused: Thanks! :drinkup

Dougster™ :usa

[euclid]

Squizzy is Da Man! He has already helped me! :D And yes, it appears that the aftermarket tracks on my mini-ex may be more aggressive and higher surface contact pressure than stock. I don't think they are helping me at all.


Don't assume I know anything guys! ;) I've never had to throw down anything before this. But as a one man show, hauling in a bunch of plywood is going to cost me both time and money. May I ask, for a typical residential job (i.e., a job where you must protect the lawn), how much plywood are we talking about here and what thickness do you normally use? :confused: Thanks! :drinkup

Dougster™ :usa

I used to keep tires on our trailer when we moved our D-5. We had to cross roads and public ground and didn't need to mess things up.
I would agree ply wood can be costly and aweward to move but a several pieces of 3/4 inch can be a good thing. Maybe it is the treads on your tracks that is the issue?

[Dougster]

I used to keep tires on our trailer when we moved our D-5. We had to cross roads and public ground and didn't need to mess things up.
I would agree ply wood can be costly and aweward to move but a several pieces of 3/4 inch can be a good thing. Maybe it is the treads on your tracks that is the issue?
I guess the point is that you keep jumping off the beast and moving the plywood forward, yes? So maybe you only need 6 to 8 sheets? Still a royal pain in the butt for an old man like me. :( And yes, I'll have to look into the possibility of getting some lower impact tracks since most of what I do is residential work.

Dougster™ :usa

[landrvrnut22]

3-4 sheets of 1/2" is all you need, then again, I am a young guy with lots of energy to burn.

[Dougster]

3-4 sheets of 1/2" is all you need, then again, I am a young guy with lots of energy to burn.
I like that a LOT better than 6-8 sheets of 3/4 inch!!! :notworthy

Dougster™ :usa

[Squizzy246B]

Dougster, anytime you turn on the spot you will tear up lawn in almost any excavator. I drive straight or in big radius where I can and turn on 3/4" formply (the smooth sided stuff grano workers use to make formwork). I have 3 sheets cut in half length ways and I use it for concrete, the skid steer and the mini-ex. Formply is tough and last ages if you just look after it a bit.

At a trade show once I saw some special rubber mats specifically designed for compact machines......it was horrifically expensive and very heavy. I have seen guys using conveyor belting.

It is sometimes possible to jump turn a little without too much damage...if you know your machine http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=4892

A wheeled machine will "generally" do less damage if its not soft. When its soft you will leave trenches and tracks are better.

You should state, in writing, to the owner before the job starts the measures you will take to reduce lawn damage but that some damage is ineviatable. Make a plan to reduce trips and turns. Keeping the machine well balanced will also help....don't have the stick out over the side while turning. I put the blade down on a piece of plywood or lumber to keep the machine steady when digging.

The only dedicated turf tracks I know of are from ASV for their posi-tracks machines http://www.asvi.com/rc60_turf.cfm

Hope that helps

[Dougster]

Dougster, anytime you turn on the spot you will tear up lawn in almost any excavator. I drive straight or in big radius where I can and turn on 3/4" formply (the smooth sided stuff grano workers use to make formwork). I have 3 sheets cut in half length ways and I use it for concrete, the skid steer and the mini-ex. Formply is tough and last ages if you just look after it a bit.

At a trade show once I saw some special rubber mats specifically designed for compact machines......it was horrifically expensive and very heavy. I have seen guys using conveyor belting.

It is sometimes possible to jump turn a little without too much damage...if you know your machine http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=4892

A wheeled machine will "generally" do less damage if its not soft. When its soft you will leave trenches and tracks are better.

You should state, in writing, to the owner before the job starts the measures you will take to reduce lawn damage but that some damage is ineviatable. Make a plan to reduce trips and turns. Keeping the machine well balanced will also help....don't have the stick out over the side while turning. I put the blade down on a piece of plywood or lumber to keep the machine steady when digging.

The only dedicated turf tracks I know of are from ASV for their posi-tracks machines http://www.asvi.com/rc60_turf.cfm

Hope that helps
It sure does! :) Great advice Squizzy! Excellent links too! I'll say it again: You are "Da Man"!!! :notworthy

I'll look for that Formply stuff. I know exactly what you are talking about... but I sure don't know where to buy it in sheets. :beatsme But I'll find it!!! :D

Never heard of jump turning. Guess I better research it ASAP and learn! :drinkup

Dougster™ :usa

[Squizzy246B]

It sure does! :) Great advice Squizzy! Excellent links too! I'll say it again: You are "Da Man"!!! :notworthy

I'll look for that Formply stuff. I know exactly what you are talking about... but I sure don't know where to buy it in sheets. :beatsme But I'll find it!!! :D

Never heard of jump turning. Guess I better research it ASAP and learn! :drinkup

Dougster™ :usa

If you ask formworkers/concrete workers they often discard their ply and stuff when it becomes damaged or the bond breaker was not good. Doesn't matter what it looks like....it just impresses the client when you go that extra yard to do the right thing.

[Dougster]

If you ask formworkers/concrete workers they often discard their ply and stuff when it becomes damaged or the bond breaker was not good. Doesn't matter what it looks like....it just impresses the client when you go that extra yard to do the right thing.
I hear you loud and clear Squizzy!!! :) I'll keep an eye out! :cool:

Dougster™ :usa

[Nick Abeyta]

I am still "new" to the world of rubber-tracked mini-excavators. My paying work in the past has mostly been performed with my 41 HP Mahindra tractor with its R4 tires and its FEL, backhoe, 3-point implements, etc. While I used to tear up lawns a little doing really tough jobs, my new (to me) Yanmar VIO35-3 mini-excavator has a nasty habit of tearing up lawns just about anywhere it goes.

Even when I endeavor to keep the tracks moving as uniformly as possible as much as possible... I still end up with some pretty serious and ugly lawn damage... ruts and ripped up turf. It has gone so far that I've decided to leave the mini-ex home for this week's digging job and do it all with the tractor's backhoe because I'll need to cross the client's lawn (including some tight turns) to get to the several backyard work locations.

Am I missing something here? Was I expecting too much for a 3.5 ton mini-ex to be reasonably kind to turf? Are there tricks or things to watch out for in order to to minimize lawn damage? Does anyone sell tracks that are kinder to lawns? Or would that defeat the usefulness of having a mini-ex of this weight and size in the first place? :confused: Help!!! :o

Dougster™ :usa

I'll check the specs. on this model and see if our pads can help.

[CM1995]

I'll look for that Formply stuff. I know exactly what you are talking about... but I sure don't know where to buy it in sheets. :beatsme But I'll find it!!! :D

I have found 1/2" and 3/4" Formply at Home Depot before, although all of them do not carry it. If HD does not have any, try a construction supply house or a good lumber yeard. I think it was around $30 per sheet last time I bought some, but that was months ago.

Like was mentioned before, cut it in 2'X8' strips and flip-flop them as you are traveling. 4 sheets would give you 32LF of mats.

It is a PITA, but beats having to re-sod a lawn.

[Dougster]

I'll check the specs. on this model and see if our pads can help.
Hi Nick - I looked at your catalog and I don't see anything that might help my particular problem. Sounds like I need these boards or maybe a whole different kind of "turf friendly" track :beatsme

Dougster™ :usa

[Dougster]

I have found 1/2" and 3/4" Formply at Home Depot before, although all of them do not carry it. If HD does not have any, try a construction supply house or a good lumber yeard. I think it was around $30 per sheet last time I bought some, but that was months ago.

Like was mentioned before, cut it in 2'X8' strips and flip-flop them as you are traveling. 4 sheets would give you 32LF of mats.

It is a PITA, but beats having to re-sod a lawn.
I don't think I've ever seen them in our Massachusetts HD stores. But I do have a few other places I can check. Unfortunately, the nearest place that's likely to have them also happens to be known for its sky high prices!!! :(

Dougster™ :usa

[74inchShovel]

You may want to look for " miscuts" or "blows", factory defects that reduce the price by more than half around here!

[jimmyjack]

what i've done with the plywood is carryed 3 or 4 pieces under the machine on the trailer than at the job lay them out were the turns are than run the machine over to the spot were i was working, just makes easyer than making a plywood road to the spot, than i would use the plywood to put the dirt on makes clean up easyer

[Vantage_TeS]

If you wanted to get really fancy, and use the plywood alot, why not install a hook in the middle of the sheet? Then you can drop a sheet in front of you, track onto it. Then swing around, grab the rear sheet with the bucket, swing around and place it in front of you. You'd never have to get out of the machine and could get away with 2-3 sheets.

We use "swamp mats" with big hoe's to keep them from sinking out of sight on some jobs. Not the exact setup you would use, but you may get the idea?

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/nyfo/hot/images/bricklarge.jpg

[Dougster]

You may want to look for " miscuts" or "blows", factory defects that reduce the price by more than half around here!

what i've done with the plywood is carryed 3 or 4 pieces under the machine on the trailer than at the job lay them out were the turns are than run the machine over to the spot were i was working, just makes easyer than making a plywood road to the spot, than i would use the plywood to put the dirt on makes clean up easyer

If you wanted to get really fancy, and use the plywood alot, why not install a hook in the middle of the sheet? Then you can drop a sheet in front of you, track onto it. Then swing around, grab the rear sheet with the bucket, swing around and place it in front of you. You'd never have to get out of the machine and could get away with 2-3 sheets.

Thanks very much for the tips guys! :drinkup I appreciate them all! This high degree of turf damage was just not anticipated when I bought my little beast and it seems that there is no easy way around it but to transport and throw down protection in some form. Not good for an old man with one good arm working all alone... who bought this little machine to save himself some time and effort over his other (wheeled) digging machine. :o But such is life sometimes. :rolleyes: Live and learn I guess. :beatsme

Dougster™ :usa

[PipeGuy]

The fiberglass mats your talking about are called "trackmats" They are expensive but they are very tough. They don't asborb water and mud and dirt washes off. They are only about 3/8" -1/2 thick. I have used them with directional drills when drilling from a yard. I have a JD 50D with rubber tracks and it is horrible on the turf also. I used to have a Kubota 161-2 with steel tracks and you could go across grass and not even see where you tracked at. The steel tracks were wider and you couldn't crawl over curbs and such as easy as you can with the rubber tracks. I guess everything has it's place

[Dougster]

The fiberglass mats your talking about are called "trackmats" They are expensive but they are very tough. They don't asborb water and mud and dirt washes off. They are only about 3/8" -1/2 thick. I have used them with directional drills when drilling from a yard. I have a JD 50D with rubber tracks and it is horrible on the turf also. I used to have a Kubota 161-2 with steel tracks and you could go across grass and not even see where you tracked at. The steel tracks were wider and you couldn't crawl over curbs and such as easy as you can with the rubber tracks. I guess everything has it's place
Yes, I've been informed by certain folks in the know that I "blew it" by not getting steel tracks. :o

Who knew they would do less turf damage than rubber. :beatsme

Dougster™ :usa

[digger242j]

Yes, I've been informed by certain folks in the know that I "blew it" by not getting steel tracks. :o

Who knew they would do less turf damage than rubber. :beatsme

Dougster™ :usa

Yeah, but on the other hand, chipped and scratched asphalt and concrete don't grow back. Grass does.

[Dougster]

Yeah, but on the other hand, chipped and scratched asphalt and concrete don't grow back. Grass does.
Well, yes... exactly. :o Either way, there is a downside. :(

Dougster™ :usa

[humboldt deere]

By lifting yourself up and jump turning the damaged area will be much smaller than if you just skid around.

[Dougster]

By lifting yourself up and jump turning the damaged area will be much smaller than if you just skid around.
I do need to learn how to do a jump turn without killing me, my machine or damaging the rubber tracks. Sadly, it's not something the dealers go out of their way to teach you. :o

Dougster™ :usa

[DirtMan]

I think that it's really impossible for a tracked machine. You could try a wheelie. Either way, I think the smartest thing to do is move the machine as little as possible.

Let's see if I can do this without sounding like a salesman...if you had an "universal joint" at the end of the stick with a quick coupler, something like a Rototilt, you could move and swap your tools, working around obstacles, such as digging around a fire hydrant, or under a sign without moving the machine.

[Dougster]

I think that it's really impossible for a tracked machine. You could try a wheelie. Either way, I think the smartest thing to do is move the machine as little as possible.

Let's see if I can do this without sounding like a salesman...if you had an "universal joint" at the end of the stick with a quick coupler, something like a Rototilt, you could move and swap your tools, working around obstacles, such as digging around a fire hydrant, or under a sign without moving the machine.
Oh, I agree! That would be the cat's meow! :D But those Rototilts cost big money and I am dirt poor. :o Maybe someday.

I find it interesting that buying a mini-ex as a second machine for the business has actually helped me to get more excavation and grading interest and inquiries... but that so far, all the actual work executed since buying the little beast has still been performed (by necessity or choice) by the wheeled compact TLB. Go figure! :Pointhead

Dougster™ :usa

[dirthog28]

Oh NO!! DirtMan you don't sound like salesman by no means, you sound like you've been operating and working in this field for years. Just like the other 5,000 posts you've done today promoting and selling that dam Rototilt. You really need to get out in the real world away from them rototilt sales classes and see how things are really done. I don't think a guy with a $20-30K mini excavators is going buy your outrageous priced attachment to do a little dirt work in people's yards!

GIVE IT UP WITH THE ROTOTILT!!! Nobody here asked about it!! Plus if I wanted a tilt bucket I would go with HELAC!

[DirtMan]

You really need to get out in the real world away from them rototilt sales classes and see how things are really done. I don't think a guy with a $20-30K mini excavators is going buy your outrageous priced attachment to do a little dirt work in people's yards!

Dude, I just installed one in your backyard for Aldridge Electric on a Takeuchi....real world application.

The question was asked, how not to tear up the lawn, and the best answer is to move the machine least as possible. You give me a better answer...Mr. Real World.

[dirthog28]

Well "Dude" Aldridge Electric is a billion dollar company they can waste their money on a Rototilt, plus their probably using it to help set poles or something, not like most of us small contractors cutting drainage swales, downspouts, sewer lines, concrete work, etc. I can put down alot of plywood sheets and grass seed for the price of your attachment. I just get tired of you trying to hijack every thread with the world's solution being a Rototilt, "Dude"

[Steve Frazier]

He won't be hijacking any more.

[Orchard Ex]

:DHmmm.... Wasn't there a recent thread asking "What do you hate about equipment salesmen?"....:waving

[raydz]

lol:)

[atgreene]

Back to the original question, I have found that the steel on mine tears up less than the rubber ever did. Either way, I tell the customer that my estimate includes loam, seed and hay for when I'm done. If they want to cut it from the estimate, so be it, otherwise I figure it in and explain that anyone who gives them an estimate had better have figured it in or they won't be happy with the mess.

With my clean-up bucket (without a roto thing a ma-jobby) I can squeegy out some loam in a few minutes to clean-up my track mark and leave it better than when I arrived.

Good luck with the machine, it's a nice size.:wink2

[360joe]

I remember reading a feature on an exacavator that was being used in England (i think) for digging graves. It had a very simple and unconventional undercarraige but it seemed to be good for minimising damage to the ground and getting around obstacles. Basically its upper structure was like a conventional 360 deg excavator of about 5 tonnes. Instead of tracks it had two wheels on the front (no drives) and two outriggers on the back. This machine had to be moved using the machines bucket to lift up off the outriggers and roll itself along on the wheels. Sounds v slow and silly I know but the operator insisted it was the ideal machine for its application. Never saw one in the flesh and don't know if its still a production machine but I thought it was an idea with merit for special applications.

[360joe]

Just remembered the manufactures name- Smalley- although i am not sure i am spelling it correct

[Guyute]

I have a Kubota kx 121 with rubber tracks and I can say honestly that planning and patience work the best in not tearing up my clients yards. I make wide turns, I plan where I am going and how to move my machine, and I don't move too fast. I also like everybody said include the cost of loam and hay in my bids. I have heard that belts from conveyors work well to track across, my neighbor is going to give me a bit of old belt at the end of the season.

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Guyute! :drinkup

[Alan]

The well drilling folks up here have taken to using a polyetheyelene (sp) mat about 1/2" thick to make a runway for their rigs. They still leave a depressed "rut" but it is far less evident than 6" deep truck tracks. Stuff comes in 4 8 foot sheets. Fairly pricey but doesn't rot or absorb water. Seems like a few sheets would make good turning points for a mini.

http://www.duradeckmats.com/?gclid=CNSws7Lo45QCFQplHgodyUs7Qw

[74inchShovel]

Bobcat offers the same-real pricey is a understatement