PITA Customers

[CascadeScaper]

Now I know this is an excavation motivated forum, but I have a bit of a question where I'm going to try and compare 2 industries. For the most part, as excavation contractos, is there alot of BS you have to deal with when talking/bidding/or plain getting the job done with a customer? Seems like we get alot of crap when it comes to dealing with customers. We don't work unless there is a contract signed and 50% of the bid price is paid in advance. That contract states what services we will be performing for the bid amount and anything extra is a "change order" and that costs extra. Lately we've been dealing with customers that want to do extra work, which is fine, but they haven't paid for the remaining 50% of the contracted work and they assume we will do the extra work before we've been paid to do the contracted work. Basically, we don't want to start on a new project before we've paid for the last one. So a general question for all, is this less of an issue in the excavation business? Steve I know you're in landscaping, how do you deal with this? It seems like everyone in these parts thinks we need their business to survive when in fact we could close up shop tomorrow and my dad could retire, so we don't really need the business that bad and if things keep going the way they are we'll pull the plug and do small excavation with the equipment we have or sell everything off. A man can only take so much and being shafted around by Westsiders (you know what I'm talking about DKinWA, those ritzy, upclass folk just north of you in the great city of Seattle) gets old in a hurry. Sorry, had to vent. Thanks.

[CT18fireman]

I have different takes on this.

Seems to me that if the change is part of the original job and within say 25% of the total cost, I would just do it. So if I was laying a patio and they changed the type of paver, there would likely not be a problem, just finish and bill the extra.

If the change was more then this then I would want another deposit, especially if materials were involved. Same patio but they want a couple planters and a retaining wall to border it. I would quote an increase and want more of a deposit for materials.

If it is a new job, for the same customer then it is not a change, a new estimate should be given, signed as a contract with a deposit. Backyard patio is done and now they want me to lay out a planting bed in the front and reseed their front lawn.

That is how I do it.

[LaLaMan]

Coustomers know your doing the extras as what we call T and M (well we call it that in electrical work) the company I work for makes most of their money off of a project of T&M sometimes and is a great way to make up on what they might have lost out on. I think in my bosses area getting paid is not a problem, its a big $$$ area.

So b/c its T&M they feel like their getting ripped off, b/c they think were milking the job. When in reality when the boss bid the job he might have bid it at 175/hour/man as opposed to his normal 125 or 150/hour/man.

[woberlin]

I would think that most of the excavation work you would do will be strictly by the hour. Almost all of my work is, and when asked for a price, I usually explain to the person that hourly is the best and fairest way for us both, and usually they agree. I work by myself, and mostly for homeowners or small contractors. I always give them a ballpark estimate, and try hard not to go over it. Communicating with the customer all through the project is very important, as most don't seem to really know what they want, or change their mind several times during the work. I'm pretty liberal doing small extras for a customer that I don't charge for. It's well worth 10 or 15 minutes to have a happy customer! All the above only applies to job types that are hard to estimate a fair time, rough or finish grading, land clearing, new driveways etc. I will give a quote for moving or delivering materials, basements, or any type job that involves a fixed volume of earth. Good luck in your new venture!

[Steve Frazier]

I've learned to weed out problem customers. I've come to recognize some of the characteristics of these customers on the initial meeting, when they seem to have price as their primary focus, you can expect problems. I've actually told one customer who was questioning my every move that if he didn't return inside his home, we would withdraw from the job immediately.

I've built my business on quality and am almost always booked 2 to 3 months out, so I try to be a bit picky with my customers. This gives me the luxury of declining jobs that I feel will be problematic due to the customer.

[CascadeScaper]

Well the customer we're dealing with right now originally contracted with us to install an irrigation system, bring in topsoil, remove some existing landscape, and then lay sod. Now the customer wants the driveway graded and gravel spread, probably at least 30 yards of gravel, and a bunch of other things done. We have no problem doing this work, it's a customer and we like to please, but we're not going to start on these additional projects until we are paid the remaining balance for the work we were originally contracted to do. We've told him we would be glad to give him an estimate for doing these additional projects but will not start until we recieve payment for the first contracted job.

Steve-We're trying to weed out these types of customers, most of them seem relatively normal in the initial meeting and price is never mentioned as a concern. If price is a concern or if it sounds like that's all they're after, we won't even take the job. It's tough with some people, they play nice at first to get you to show up and get started on their project, but after you start they think they own you, and we don't play that game at all. Also, right now we're booked out for about 2 months and we've got a job for a contractor that was lined up last fall as he was building a spec house and needed a landscaper. We've done about 3 projects with him before and we trust him pretty well, but now the owner of the house wants the landscaping done by May 15th or she can't close the sale of the house! She wants us to start right now but we won't start a job until a contract is signed by customer (in this case, the contractor, he hired us, not the future homeowner) and since he controlls the destiny of the landscaping because this job was budgeted into the total building cost of the house last fall, it is entirely the responsibility of contractor in ways of payment and design of the job. So, right now the future homeowner is hosed off at us when she really should be mad at her contractor for not signing our contract and sending us some initial payment. :cussing

[CT18fireman]

Steve brought up another point that often helps me weed out customers, time. I too am pretty busy. I was booking jobs for the summer over last winter. Now I am booking for Sept and the fall. Seems that customers who "can't wait" are usually problems. I have learned from bad experiences that squeezing them in earlier is not appreciated by them. I stick to my sxhedule, and often "miss" these job as there is no response to my estimate. Oh well.

[CT18fireman]

The company or person doing the work always takes the abuse Cascade. Just the way of business. I have had the same experiences, and often I will take a bit of a risk to please the homeowner.

Example: A builder asked me to landscape a new home, but he still owed me for the drainage work I did and topsoil we had spread. The homeowner was not happy with just a dirt field. So I took have a day and seeded a lawn in for them, Minimal cost to me of two guys, seed, fert and straw. I was finally paid for the draiage and topsoil. The builder never did pay for the landscaping (they are fighting with him now) and we were called back to complete all the landscaping. So I did not get paid for the lawn install, but with all the other work I am getting I will still come out on top, secure a happy customer and have a mowing contract as well.

[kamerad47]

Getting paid is always a problem!!!!!!!