Roll over

[93CobraCPR]

Hello everyone!!!!
No one hurt machine(??)
Went for a ride yesterday and ended up on the side, looks like nothing bent. Waited 2 hours for tow truck to right it (well worth the $185).
Tow guy says leave sit for a couple days before trying to start and may want to just turn it by breaker bar on crank. I told him I will probable take it in to the dealer to take care of it(let them look it over).
Should I take it in or do it myself?
Cost for dealer to look at it?
The roll was fairly minor: no broken glass and looks straight.
04 S250 w/55 hrs (yes, just did 1st maintenance schedule).

Input appreciated!

[Tigerotor77W]

If you do a lot of maintenance yourself and feel that you are capable of fixing whatever may come your way, you could look at it yourself. However, I'd suggest taking it to the dealer and having them look at it. What may happen in the future depends on the conditions of the rollover:
1) How did you roll it over?
2) Were the boom arms raised?
3) What attachment did you have on?

If your boom arms were raised, you could have some major fatigue in the future... but other than that, it seems the machine will be all right.

[coopers]

I almost rolled a stupid bobcat skidsteer at my work. I hate those machines sooooooo much. They bounce like no bodies buisness, they suck. I was on only slightly bumpy terrain, nothing major at all and I went to dump something and backed up slowly and stopped and my arms weren't even that high in the air and the damn thing almost rolled on it back. Dumb thing.

Blake
WA

[capecodpondguy]

I almost rolled a stupid bobcat skidsteer at my work. I hate those machines sooooooo much. They bounce like no bodies buisness, they suck. I was on only slightly bumpy terrain, nothing major at all and I went to dump something and backed up slowly and stopped and my arms weren't even that high in the air and the damn thing almost rolled on it back. Dumb thing.

Blake
WA
I have been running Bobcat's for 5 years and only once came close to rolling it on it's side. They are perfectly good machines that you need to learn how to run and what tolerances they have. You wouldn't try to make a Toyota carolla run on a race track, don't try to make the SS do something it wasnt designed to do. There has to be some reason they are so popular, not everyone tries to roll them over. And finally, "dumb thing"..............Reconsider.

[CascadeScaper]

Coopers, sorry to tell you, but that's operator error :cool:

[93CobraCPR]

Fell over on side with grappler went over slowly and didn't hit hard. Shop looking at it tomorrow but I couldn't disengage track lock and they wouldn't say why. Does anyone have any ideas?

I will admit I was working in unsafe situation (learned valuable lesson). I was moving tree trunks trying and stacking to high. The ground was 2" of mud w/frost underneath @ 45 degree slope. Started to slide sidewise about 1' and tires dug in and over it went it side.


thanks

[coopers]

It very well could be operator error, since I don't drive those guys a lot, maybe it's just me but even if I tried to do a wheely with our gehl skidsteers they won't do it unless they don't have an attachment on and even that's hard to do. Bobcats seem to bounce if you sneeze in them. Trust me, I wasn't moving that fast at all and I didn't jerk the controls at all. I'm not a guy to cover up a dumb mistake, if I made one I'll admit it, no harm in that....but this time I really wasn't operating poorly. :spaz lol...

Blake
WA

[digger242j]

I had a Bobcat salesman explain to me once the advantages of their machine not being what he called "flat-footed", (while the other brands are). It was something about what percentage of the weight is on the front tires vs the rear tires, depending on whether the bucket is full or empty. After I ran it for a couple of days I figure out that that was a way of trying to paint its bouncy tendancies as an advantage. Personally, I came to recognize that I prefer the greater stability of other brands and if being flat-footed plays into that, that's ok by me.

I'm not a guy to cover up a dumb mistake, if I made one I'll admit it, no harm in that....but this time I really wasn't operating poorly.

I know exactly how you feel. Just yesterday that stupid Kobelco excavator broke a sanitary sewer pipe. I was sitting in there hanging onto the joysticks for dear life and the damn thing just swung around and smacked that sewer. I hate when they do that! :)

[Tigerotor77W]

I had a Bobcat salesman explain to me once the advantages of their machine not being what he called "flat-footed", (while the other brands are). It was something about what percentage of the weight is on the front tires vs the rear tires, depending on whether the bucket is full or empty. After I ran it for a couple of days I figure out that that was a way of trying to paint its bouncy tendancies as an advantage. Personally, I came to recognize that I prefer the greater stability of other brands and if being flat-footed plays into that, that's ok by me.

There actually a few good reasons for Bobcat's choice. But first:

1) Bobcat's old -53 series loaders had this problem. Newer ones, especially long-wheelbase, vertical-lift models, have remedied this pretty well.
2) There are advantages to a 70-30 design. It was, remember, the original design: it's not an excuse to sell their product; it's simply how the original machines (600 series, 743) were designed. The market is changing -- and hence you see longer-wheelbase models out now that are more stable. In any case -- the 70-30 action allows for much better pivoting. Generally speaking, you'll find that Bobcat models leave less rubber on the road when they split the joysticks. You take an NH or Deere and you'll leave rubber all over the place and dig up hot asphalt. The basic premise is simple: is it easier to turn with your entire foot on the ground, or if only your toes or heel is on the ground? A 70-30 distribution makes pivoting easier -- meaning less HP requirement. (This is also why certain CTLs seem underpowered when turning -- ALL that length of track on the ground.)

Certainly Bobcat, especially, has learned that the market doesn't always want a smooth-pivoting machine and its product line has adjusted correspondingly.

No offense meant, digger -- just a comment about where the 70-30 came from. Where to put the center of gravity on a loader will always be a tradeoff between simplicity of pivoting and overall loader balance.

[Yellowdog]

There actually a few good reasons for Bobcat's choice.

Certainly Bobcat, especially, has learned that the market doesn't always want a smooth-pivoting machine and its product line has adjusted correspondingly.



IMHO I think Bobcat had it right with the wheelbase on the 863's. Didn't tear up the ground as much and still turned good and was plenty stable with heavy weight.

I like the longer wheelbase for travel but you make a good point about pivoting. I find myself backing and turning more gently to protect the ground.
As far as the other guy blaming the machine for nearly rolling over. That's the same as blaming SUV's for accidents. I think my ride is pretty smooth compared to a dozer...but I'm a gentle operator with some skill. Not a weekend hotshot that tries to scramble kidneys. Some guys don't belong in the operator seat of anything much less a piece of powerful machinery.. :)

[digger242j]

Certainly no offense taken. And there's nothing you said that I can really disagree with.

I believe the machine the salesman and I were discussing was a 753. I rented it for a couple of days. He also mentioned that some of the other models would be more stable.

My main problem was that I was trying to do some grading on a slope, and that I had only a limited amount of room to work facing downhill. With the bucket empty, and facing either uphill or across the slope, I had a hard time keeping the cutting edge where I wanted it. In that particular situation how easily it pivoted was not a big concern. I've run other makes in similar spots with a lot less aggravation. Maybe if I spent more hours on the particular model I'd have gotten used to its tendancies a little better.

Yellowdog makes a good point too, about pivoting more gently. Just because a skidder is able to spin around in its own length doesn't mean you need to operate it that way all the time. I'd argue that the greater the amount of finess an operator brings to the job, the more gently he'll use the machine, regardless of what its ultimate capabilities are.

As far as the other guy blaming the machine for nearly rolling over....

Let's not be too hard on coopers. He did allow that it could have been his fault. If you check his profile you'll see he's still college age. Even when I was a few years past that I hadn't yet matured into a "gentle" operator. (Some might argue that I still haven't.) :)

[Yellowdog]

Certainly no offense taken.

Let's not be too hard on coopers. He did allow that it could have been his fault. If you check his profile you'll see he's still college age. Even when I was a few years past that I hadn't yet matured into a "gentle" operator. (Some might argue that I still haven't.) :)

Okay, I won't be too hard on him, however, my uncle once told me not to grit my teeth when I operate machinery. That has served me well, kept my machines healthy and my body to boot. There are the angry contractors out there who will ram anything in the hopes of knocking it down. That isn't what a machine is designed for and thus the finesse you pointed out. I am a cheapo when it comes to replacing tires so I turn gently. It doesn't take that much longer and my pocket feels a lot heavier than the other guy who's replacing slicks.

I have had my share of close calls but they were my fault. Not the machine's fault. It never is unless there is an unforeseen component failure..of course, it's easier to blame firestone and ford rather than the SUV drivers carrying a capacity beyond the limitations of the vehicle and driving at reckless speeds. just an observation..

[Tigerotor77W]

I think a 45" wheelbase is the way to go in a ~2300 pound machine. Bobcat doesn't think even thought Case, Cat, Komatsu, Gehl... do. Ah well. All in good time... *crosses fingers* (What they really need to do is lengthen the wheelbase of their S150-S205. Sheesh.)

In any case, 93CobraCPR, good luck with the machine and let us know how it goes!

[digger242j]

...my uncle once told me not to grit my teeth when I operate machinery.

I thought I rememberd a thread about good advice, so I looked for it--It was called "best tip" (http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=454).

I think your uncle's advice says so much with just a few words. That one's a keeper....

:thumbsup

[coopers]

LOL...oh obviously I don't have as much experience as some of you guys out there but I'm not reckless...hard to convince people over the net with words but just trying to defend myself fairly, since someone was quick to judge me personally w/o knowing me. :rolleyes: Like I said to digger privately, there have been times when it was my fault and I learned from it. One thing to remember is that machines and anything built by man's hands are not flawless, things do go wacky sometimes, although like you said yellowdog, it's safe to say that it is usually the operators fault whether it's a machine or a car.

Later

Blake
WA

P.S. This is not a slam, so no bashing needs to start. :salute

[P7M8]

Maybe the Bobcat just felt like it was going to roll on it's back. I'm used to New Holland machines so when I ran a friends 753 I was always feeling like it was going to tip. It never did, then my friend got in the machine and ran it twice as fast because he knew it's capabilities.

[coopers]

Yeah, you have a point....lol. I've been driving our new gehls, which don't move in a hurricane it seems like so that may have been the case.

Blake
WA

[KeithRA]

I operate my case 90 xt full controls forward and reverse never slowing down to change direction .I even use 2 speed spreading materal.The ride is smooth I have 18" wide steel track on it. I operate it like im digging with a backhoe.I had it on some steep grades with the loader four feet in air grading never tiped dump fill.The only time i got worred about the grade i was useing it on steep grade and oil light to come on i was heading down hill. You cannot operate a bobcat like this, controls fight the the operator even the the new bobcat i have used.It hard to use one forward and one reverse im talking full controls.My option is bobcat have bad balanced machine and controls need work to.Maybe it been the bobcats i have used.

[KSSS]

KeithRA,
Maybe its just that the CASE is a way better machine? :bouncegri

[Losingweight]

I just drop one into canal... Got lucky it went sideways and ways able to get out.
Had to pull it straight up with a big backhoe. Sorry to post off topic, but looking for some tech help

It is a Bobcat 436, Any idea where I can get info on engine. . Anything under seat to worry about. The gauges where all full of water, sprays alternator with wd40. Oil was coming out of intake. I drained it and filled it with diesel, going work on it tomorrow. Trying to find how to get heater plugs or injector out so I can crank engine without breaking a rod.

Any ideas will be appreciate .... And no pictures , we where too busy trying get things out before it sank further.

[TALLRICK]

There actually a few good reasons for Bobcat's choice. But first:

1) Bobcat's old -53 series loaders had this problem. Newer ones, especially long-wheelbase, vertical-lift models, have remedied this pretty well.
2) There are advantages to a 70-30 design. It was, remember, the original design: it's not an excuse to sell their product; it's simply how the original machines (600 series, 743) were designed. The market is changing -- and hence you see longer-wheelbase models out now that are more stable. In any case -- the 70-30 action allows for much better pivoting. Generally speaking, you'll find that Bobcat models leave less rubber on the road when they split the joysticks. You take an NH or Deere and you'll leave rubber all over the place and dig up hot asphalt. The basic premise is simple: is it easier to turn with your entire foot on the ground, or if only your toes or heel is on the ground? A 70-30 distribution makes pivoting easier -- meaning less HP requirement. (This is also why certain CTLs seem underpowered when turning -- ALL that length of track on the ground.)

Certainly Bobcat, especially, has learned that the market doesn't always want a smooth-pivoting machine and its product line has adjusted correspondingly.

No offense meant, digger -- just a comment about where the 70-30 came from. Where to put the center of gravity on a loader will always be a tradeoff between simplicity of pivoting and overall loader balance.

Now that this thread has returned from the past I wanted to share my own experience with this. I was involved with a fence installation where I was drilling post holes and bringing posts to the installers, for my friend's company. I used my Bobcat 863 with stock tires. The other company building a fence was using a Deere loader which was similar in size to my Bobcat. The machine had what looked like new turf tires at the beginning of the job. After 1 mile of drilling holes on asphalt the tires wore out significantly. When the work area was on grass I noticed that no matter how wide the turn it left torn out areas that lasted for weeks. On our job the only real damage was where I unloaded the truck as there was no room for a wide turn. As mentioned above I was astonished to see that the Deere loader even scraped out asphalt in a tight turn, something I had never seen before. As mentioned above though, the Deere could pick up a lot more material without getting tippy. My preference is for Bobcat though.

[Eric]

I'm not good at that whole quote and re quote to show who said what and when and what their hat size is....thing. So, Coopers I agree with you.... I hate them too. They are rough, bouncy, stinky, touchy,and their momma's dress them funny. I havn't had any close call to speak of and I feel an automatic urge to defend my operating ability. Yes, I know any piece of equipment is as rough as you make it... I get that. But it is possible to NOT absolutly love every single piece of heavy equipment ever made!!! With that said... I sure wish I had one for this upcoming weekend!!! Lighten up everyone!!!! Have a good day!!

[jtt503]

just posting a second time...thanks