Alright big equipment guys need your input!

[Craftybigdog]

Alright guys heres the deal. My best friend owns custom home building business. Well hes tired of paying to have his backhoe delivered to job sites. He wants to buy a trailer and use my F-450 to move it.

1. First ? how much does a John Deere 410 (extend a hoe) weigh?
2. Will my truck move it
3. What size trailer will he need?

Thanks alot.

[Cat420]

What year 410? My first thoughts would be that a bigger truck is probably necessary, but I could be wrong.

[woberlin]

Iwould think he'd need a 20,000gvw trailer, and a bigger truck than an f-450. Most backhoes around here are towed by full size single axle dumps, 26,000gvw and larger. The f-450 could probably do it, but I don't think it would be safe, or even legal.

[CT18fireman]

Your truck could do it but as said not legally.

[Steve Frazier]

You'll need more truck to move it legally and safely. I'd go with a 33,000 gvw truck.

[triaxle]

The vehicle in question [ a 450 with trailer & 410 E hoe ] will require a CDL/ hydraulic brake endorsement to drive. Fines for inappropriate drivers liscense $10,000. ( estimated F-450= 8000/ 410 e hoe=15000/ trailer= 7500)

To put this load on a pick-up and trailer is asking for trouble. The pick-up will wear faster and break sooner. Horsepower is a deceptive rating and a big diesel with a huge displacement will last longer and perform better.
Smaller trailers are weight rated differently than heavier trailers and come apart much easier. They have smaller axles of less width. Contact with a deer can end your business.

To pull your friends trailer, be aware that the power unit insures the trailer. If you pull his backhoe on his trailer, you become a "for hire" carrier. This requires driver files and drug screens on file and drug screens on any accident where over $4000 damage is done. ( this is an old law and may be more severe now.)
Usually a different insurance coverage is required for a "for hire" carrier and a different tag. If you pull the trailer and have an accident the insurance company will likely deny your claim if this issue has not been taken care of.

If you are certain that you wish to enter this transportation arena I would suggest you buy trailers with an eye to the future. Most grading companies are limited in their choice of grading machines by their previous choice of too small trailers. Many grading companies move all their machines except the big one because of this fact. Buy a trailer larger than you need, it will pull safer and be worth more when you're ready to move on. Buy a name brand trailer like Trail King, Fontaine, Cozad, Talbert, Eager Beaver, etc., some of the cheap ones are awful!!!!!

Grading contractors spend a significant amount of their time convincing customers to " do it the right way." I believe this is a situation where we should take our own advice. Get a competent, insured and liscensed person or company to move your equipment. The first time things go wrong, it can save your business and your life.

[gordyo]

I lease a 410E from a local contractor for snow removal and the college owns a F450 which we park next to it. I would not even consider hauling that backhoe with a truck that small.

By the way that backhoe weights around 18,000 lbs

[AFCS]

in my area (site developement), we move our dozer, rubber tired hoe, and excavator with our dumptruck and a tilt bed trailer. this provides you with all the necessary tools to do the job.
truck gets equipment to job, hauls spoil out if necessary, then brings in material for drive way and septic systems. truck then is used to aid in clearing, hauling, and materials management when extreme cases come along. we generally are developing up to six sites at once, each taking 4 days total to complete. then truck moves equipment to next job site.
the reason we use the dump truck is that you will pay so much to own a lowboy and tractor, that you are far better off using your dump truck, saving on material hauling time (80 per hour) and still get your equipment moved and not pay 120 per hour for the lowboy.

[richardcatdaddy]

The hoe weighs between 16,000 and 18,000 pounds.Atandem axel dump with a tag along trailer will do the job nicely.About a 18 to 20 foot should do the job for you.As for using the f 450 no.DOT would rip you a new one for that little error in judgement.:Banghead

[DigDug]

Not to be a smart alec, but we drive our backhoe everywhere.

[dayexco]

Not to be a smart alec, but we drive our backhoe everywhere.

that's not a smart alec....if i were running TLB's....anything within 25 miles would be roaded.

[Mike J]

So to all you guys who have backhoes, how far do you drive them to get to a job, and how is your area as far as traffic?

[Squizzy246B]

Not to be a smart alec, but we drive our backhoe everywhere.

Just what I was gunna say. There's a thread hereabouts called roading a loader or something like that.

Old "Effie" the 938 gets roaded all over.....takes about 10 miles to get the flat spots outa those cross plies though:cool2

[digger242j]

I roaded a backhoe about 25 miles once, about 25 years ago. I'd usually not hesitate to road one anywhere within 10 miles, but that was then, and this is now. I worry a lot more about liability and the ambulance chasing lawyers these days, and I think the police are more likely to stop you as well.

All that is considering the fact that we're talking about a backhoe that doesn't have a license plate on it. I wouldn't worry so much if it had a plate, but if you put a plate on it, now you have to feed it on-road fuel all the time.

These days, I'll go a few blocks, but I don't enjoy it.

[Squizzy246B]

All that is considering the fact that we're talking about a backhoe that doesn't have a license plate on it. I wouldn't worry so much if it had a plate, but if you put a plate on it, now you have to feed it on-road fuel all the time.

Well that system sucks with the fuel....we just put a special license on here and away we go. We have a PITA logbook to claim the diesel fuel rebate and the GVM on my truck aint high enough to qualify.

These days, I'll go a few blocks, but I don't enjoy it.

I drive the excvator down the road a few blocks:rolleyes:

[2004F550]

less then 5 miles we will road, anymore and its on the trailer, the drivetrain is not meant for that, not too good for tire wear either

[jazak]

less then 5 miles we will road, anymore and its on the trailer, the drivetrain is not meant for that, not too good for tire wear either

That is very true, I rarely see guys roading their backhoes any more because of how much ectra wear & tear is put on them because of it.......

[Squizzy246B]

less then 5 miles we will road, anymore and its on the trailer, the drivetrain is not meant for that, not too good for tire wear either

I would say that machines which are now designed to do 30, 40 Mph and more in some cases are well and truly designed for roading more than 5 miles....Unless of course you need to do 32 Mph across the site??:confused:

JMHO

[Countryboy]

I would say that machines which are now designed to do 30, 40 Mph and more in some cases are well and truly designed for roading more than 5 miles....Unless of course you need to do 32 Mph across the site??:confused:

JMHO

I have to agree. The 4th gear in most Cat hoes that I've run is a pretty tall gear that I haven't found much use for except traveling to other projects. Can't speak of other brands.

The manual in our 416 is gone. Does anybody know of any limitations on milage that are listed in the manual?

[2004F550]

i was refering to sustained heat build up in the things like the diffs, it does take a lot of life out of the tires too, it can be done, but it is not good for it

[Cat420]

The manual for our 420 doesn't limit mileage, but notes the you should stop every 25-30 minutes to let the tires cool down if they need it. Ours is good for about 25 on flat ground and handles very well, I would have no problem doing 30-35 if it had the gearing and ride control.

[Bob Horrell]

If it is over a mile it is quicker for me to load it on the trailer. Besides I carry all my tools etc. on either the dump truck or the trailer. If I need my laser level, or a chain to pull something, etc. I am out of luck if I road it.

[Copenhagen]

I busted an axle on my trailer a few weeks ago and ended up roading my backhoe and skid steer all over town.

Usually no more than 5 miles and I did the moves at night. In a town this small it wasnt a problem.

The one cop on duty did stop me though to ask if he could work for me on his days off.

It was 6 days before I got the axle fixed and now I am convinced that they should put a road gear in skid steers!!:drinkup

[DigDug]

We usually road our backhoe anything less than 20 miles. SOme people say its bad for it. In my opinion its not at all. I have moved our hoes this way for 15yrs. and havent seen a problem.

[CM1995]

My $.02 on the subject. I used to road our 420D quite a bit. Took a scheduled oil sample on the trans and it came back with high metal content and a note that said "Could be due to excessive roading".:beatsme

The 420 doesn't pull hills to well in 4th or sometimes 3rd and I have gotten many "one-finger" solutes in heavy traffic.*** There is an old law in AL that allows farm tractors to travel any state or local road without special plates. All you need is a slow moving orange triangle and off you go. Backhoes are considered farm tractors.:D

[nedly05]

I've roaded 25 miles, my biggest problem is that its boring. We have never had an issue with roading. Only time I've put a rubber tired machine on a trailer was when I all alone and needed to service it, so I had to move it to the shop with the trailer.

[Countryboy]

There is an old law in AL that allows farm tractors to travel any state or local road without special plates. All you need is a slow moving orange triangle and off you go. Backhoes are considered farm tractors.:D

Same here in Georgia with equipment. It even pertains to some vehicles. If the truck is older than 86 and is a 4x4 then it can be considered farm equipment and travel on any road without having to have a license plate. It does have to have the orange triangle though. My Chevy is an 85 and it doesn't even have to have seat belts even though if came from the factory with them.

I keep an orange triangle behind the seat.......just incase. :D

[DaveVB]

I was looking for someone to say they pull behind Ram 3500's or 450 SD's as they do here in Mo. If it is a private contractor, as one I go to church with, they pull a 580 Super K extendahoe with a Ram 3500 Diesel. I understand different rules, different states.

[mflah87]

Here in Mass you can't run a lowbed trailer over the road when there is snow packed on the road. I drove a loader from peabody to waltham ( a good 45 minute by car) because we had a snowstorm that surprised us. There is no way I would move a backhoe on a f450. You need a F650 or bigger to mov ethat with a minimum of a 9 ton tag trailer.

[PAYTON]

130 miles in a 627 boy was that a borring assss ride

[richardcatdaddy]

We rarely road our backhoes anyplace.I normally trailer them to the jobs,much safer that way.:usa

[thejdman04]

A local contractor has a big tex 25gn trailer ford f35 dually w/dump body (read heavy truck ) on B plates (8000 lbs is all hes licensed for) and pullsa 580k case, not smart though. I know in IL to get away w/roading equipment must have triangle and travel under 25mph, actually knew somone who was ticketed for pulling wagons (empty) w/o license plates. He has his smv (slow moving vehicle triangle) but to use that "loophole" and be considered a implement of husbandry it has to be under 25mph. Cops in boone county dont have much to do. When they came out w/the new smv (switch from orange to the inside triangle to red on the inside triangle, I didnt ahve all the hay racks switched over. Well a g/d cop behind me had the nerve to pull in behind me and write me a ticket. Cars were passing me and the cop in no passing zones, not using turn indicators etc etc, but decided I needed the 75 dollar ticket and deserved it more then them. Granted I was in the wrong, but the smv I had on the wagon was very visable and in good shape, jsut the old configuration. Like I said if he was looking ot meet his quota there were plenty of cars passing in no passing zones no turn singles etc he culd have written.

[DirtySouthTruck]

I pull JD 410Es with a one ton truck legally...

My Chevy 3500 GVW 9900, weighs 7200.
My trailer GVW 24000, weighs 7000.
410E weighs 16-18000 depending on year on buckets sizes.

9900+24000=33900
33900-7200-7500=19200
19200-18000=1100 safe margin of weight legally

But we do not have many hills in FL.

I have moved two of these machines so far, one from St. Aug. to Miami, other Orlando to Key Largo, no problems.

Check out www.dirtysouthtrucking.com for pics of the moves.