Ford Automatics ? [Archive] - Heavy Equipment Forums

Steve Frazier

03-04-2005, 07:06 PM

Ford hasn't been able to build a reliable auto transmission since they began producing overdrive units. I've been through 3 of them, the A4OD in the 90s F Series, whatever they put in the Taurus and now the 4R100 in my '01 F-350!

The answer to the A4OD and 4R100 is Brian's Truck Shop (http://www.brianstruckshop.com/) in Lead Hill, Arkansas. He builds a bullet proof version of these transmissions and enhances the performance as well.

I had been reading about Brian since '97 and when my 4R100 was about to let go, I drove down to him and had my tranny rebuilt. He blueprints the transmission, takes all the slop out, adds a tighter torque converter and replaces most aluminum parts with steel. The result is a transmission that shifts with authority and will hold up to towing and working. Some of his customers do truck pulling with his trannys with great results!

I note you're in Canada, but not to worry! Brian will ship you a transmission on exchange for you or another shop to install. I noticed where he had shipped a transmission to Australia when I was there! People come from all over the US to him to end their transmission problems. I just got back last week from there and the difference in how the truck drives and performs is night and day!

Unfortunately, if you've got one of the newer 5 speed autos, you're out of luck for now. Brian said he'll be looking at them soon to figure out why they fail so often and will come up with a fix for them.

salesrep

03-06-2005, 06:49 PM

Brian is one of the testimonial's that I use when talking to customers about our trans fluids. Briian also uses our #700 engine oil, #229 grease and 293 gear oil. Brain has stated that he tried most every major brand oil's trans fluid and has found Schaeffer's to be the best.

http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/204SAT.pdf
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/239A.pdf

From Brian's Website.

"We use Schaeffer's oil exclusively in all our products.

Our transmission will handle the pressure. "

Steve Frazier

03-06-2005, 10:59 PM

I saw that testimonial on his wall salesrep and will be contacting you at fluid change time!

John DiMartino

03-10-2005, 09:29 AM

Another problem with the Ford autos that are behind the powerstroke is the oil cooler is too small.trucks towing heavy in the mountians or plowing in severe conditions will quickly overheat and this dramatically shortens the trans life. Anyone working a PSD /auto hard should invest in a trans temp guage.This simple 50 dollar part could save your trans in extreme conditions.As a Shaeffers oil user for about 8 yrs now,i can say that all the Shaeffers products I have bought are excellent. I use the x200 15/40 ,#293 gear oil,the ATF,Citrol in 5 gal buckets(i love that stuff),the 2 cycle oi,neutra, and lots of the #229 grease. Im glad to see someone from Shaeffers on board here. :)

salesrep

03-10-2005, 04:22 PM

kamerad47

03-10-2005, 05:02 PM

Buy A stick trans!!!!

Dwan Hall

03-10-2005, 11:30 PM

Buy A stick trans!!!!

Sorry a stick is not an option for the work I do. I did buy a V-10 this year just because of the probem they are having behind the PSD.
Having 3 other powerstrokes with never a problem and now the V-10 I am leaning toard continuing to buy gas from now own.
don't get me wrong I realy like my 7.3's and the 6.0 might be great but for the $7,000 option I can buy a lot of gas. It is also quieter and I feel it will out last the body now that they are fuel injected. With the diesel I have to figure out what to do with the motor after the truck is wore out.

kamerad47

03-11-2005, 04:41 PM

I don't any work that a stick can't be used on ??? you have to know how to drive them!

Dwan Hall

03-11-2005, 08:34 PM

I don't any work that a stick can't be used on ??? you have to know how to drive them!

Oh I know how to drive a stick that is not a problem at all just it is not an option here because I dont want a stick for the work I do. Personal preferance.
My Z/28 or a Vet, or most any other hot rod I wouldn't have an automatic.
Just the way I like it and I am the one that makes that decision so there still is no option for a stick in my work trucks.

digger242j

03-11-2005, 08:37 PM

I don't any work that a stick can't be used on ???

One job comes right to mind. It's been discussed on the snowplowing boards a time or two. There seems to be a consensus of opinion that while it's not impossible to use a stick for plowing (and there are a few who still prefer them), automatics are far more widely prefered (both mechanically and for ease of operation).

CT18fireman

03-11-2005, 10:22 PM

With all the autos lined up at shops to be rebuilt, I know of a few people that have speced manuals on their new trucks. Easier and faster to replace a clutch then rebuild an auto.

kamerad47

03-12-2005, 06:13 PM

PAYTON

03-13-2005, 01:13 PM

as far as stick for auto. its a life long argument. me peronsaly i probally drive my vehicles harder then any one on here. ive built and ran a few comps in my off road rig.. my toy. and am in teh process of getting the parts for my next rig. its gonna be a full tube buggy northstar- auto -atlas2 mog 404 running 42s probally not 100% on the axles tires yet. but yes ive ran manual and ive ran auto.. auto is far superior then a stick yes i agree a stick has a lot on a auto espically for towing. but when it comes down to it you can put some coin in an auto and it will hold. my last rig. a 89 yj 5.0 ho c6 atlas 2 dana 60s 5.38s 39.5 tsls. i had over 1600 in the tranny alone and i tell you what it would burn all four tires with ease.. it would pick the front end up with ease. i had a np 435 in the jeep for probally 5-6 months b4 i got the auto bug. and i know of at least 3 different times i had issues with the np435. it couldnt take the slamming gears. it couldnt handle 3rd to 1st drops.. which are required to keep speed turning etc in some comps. so as i said yes im harder then most. but thats life. autos can be made to hold up just like a stick. it does take $$$$ to make the auto hold up but its well worth it.

payton

digger242j

03-13-2005, 01:28 PM

My first plowtruck was a 15 year old GMC pickup, with a 4-speed. I worked as a sub, and I felt compelled to keep up with the guys in the company trucks. There were plenty of small lots that required almost constant start/stop, and forward/back. Sometimes I worked that tranny so hard I could smell the gear oil. Yep, I beat the crap out of that truck, and in return, it beat the crap out of me. If you prefer a stick in that sort of environment, you are more than welcome to use one.

To add some perspective to the question--that sort of work is not a whole lot different than pushing or loading dirt. When was the last time anyone here chose a backhoe or track loader with a dry clutch, or even saw one on the job?

Steve Frazier

03-13-2005, 10:33 PM

I have a 86 chevy ck20 with the orignal clutch With 130,000 miles & snow plow every winter with it. It just depends on who knows how to drive! I seen plenty of people drive there own trucks real hard & beat the crap out of them!
I have to disagree here kamerad. I've driven standard trannies, up to 18 speeds for hundreds of thousands of miles and have plowed snow for over thirty years. For most plowing applications I'd prefer an automatic and yes I know how to drive standards. An automatic is much easier on both the truck and the body in most plowing applications.

I've plowed with both. I often spend 12 hours at a shot in my truck and with the standard tranny truck my left ankle would get so sore by the end of the run I could hardly walk! It saves time too in applications where theres a lot of change in direction. Often times I'd find the gears weren't quite aligned to allow shifting from forward to reverse or vice versa. This would require letting the clutch out to spin the gears for a second try. This adds quite a bit of time by the end of a run.

I guess it all boils down to personal preference, not so much one's skill.

kamerad47

03-14-2005, 05:02 PM

Steve Frazier

03-14-2005, 06:52 PM

My point was with skill levels being equal, there are still some applications where an automatic is preferable over a standard transmission. I prefer standards for trucks that will endure heavy loads such as dump work, there would be too much heat generated in an automatic in this application.

But for snowplowing of residences and parking lots, I prefer an auto for the reasons stated above. As I mentioned, I've done it both ways and an automatic is a cake walk compared to a standard in this application.

I'm pretty skilled in the use of standards, I've been driving them since 7 years old, quite a length of time. I had to replace a clutch in my car at 130,000 miles, only because my foot slipped off the clutch due to ice and broke the clutch disc. The machining marks were still in the flywheel and the pressure plate, I hadn't worn them off!

I'll agree that driving a standard transmission well requires a level of skill, but that does not necessarily imply that anyone who chooses an automatic doesn't know how to drive a standard.

Dwan Hall

03-14-2005, 08:50 PM

I beg to differ about the skill of driving a stick !! You can put anyone on the job with & automatic can you that with a stick & feel confident??? Are automatics easier sure they are that's why anyone can drive them!! I know i've seen alot of automatics broken maybe 10 to 1 vs sticks! Most guys tell me they buy automatics because they can't find nobody to drive the sticks & would most likely end up in pieces!!!

There sure are different skills in driving a stick. But that don't meen you can put anyone on a job behind an automatic. I have seen people go through 3 or 4 automatic transmitions in a season because they didn't know how to drive them and I would be willing to bet they would have had a harder time with a stick. I do beleave some of there problem was they were not paying for any of the equipment so they just didn't care.

As autos over a stick one of the jobs I am doing which requires a automatic is in a street sweeper. you can not idle slow enough with a stick in low gear when doing curb work in heavey material so an automatic is the only answer.
I have about 10 years plowing with a stick with no clutch replacment. I also have over 20 years with an automatic again with no work other then preventive maintance. If given a truck to plow with w/stick I would sell it and get an auto as I said before there is no option here for a stick for plowing. You may like it and that is your choice.
To others because they don't know how to drive a stick is not a reason to put them down. They just haven't learned the right way yet.
Given 2 hours in a plow truck w/stick I could probably teach 70% of the drivers to operate it correctly The others may never get it. Then put thoes same 70% behind an auto and I would be willing to bet 95% would never go back. I know I wont!

digger242j

03-14-2005, 10:37 PM

Probably 25 years ago we made what turned out to be a big mistake. We bought a tandem dump with an automatic. It was an International 2070 with a 238 Detroit and a 5-speed Allison. This was in the days before CDLs and we figured correctly that we could put anybody in it that had a license. The trouble with that idea was that there are guys too dumb to drive a big truck even if it has an automatic. (And owners dumb enough to put them there.)

Anyway, the reason it was a mistake was that the truck simply was not suited for western PA topography. It had spent most of its life working in the steel mill, and had apparently served well in that environment, but trying to haul loads around the hills and valleys, it just didn't get it.

We ended up selling it to a guy who had an operation in Florida. He ran a number of trucks down there hauling sand and gravel in an urban environment(read lots of traffic and traffic lights, but all flat terrain), and he bought it specifically because it had the auto.

I guess the moral of the story is that in some cases either one will serve equally well, but there just are specific circumstances where one or the other type of tranny has a clear advantage.

kamerad47

03-15-2005, 05:21 PM

I'm not putting anyone down! The point is ford has had a problem automatics, dodge has had a also I'm not sure about GM . but if you no how to drive a stick there trans are pretty much bullet proof!!! You go to these dealers for repairs on trans & 90 percent are auto's!! I wish you guys had a trans temp gauge & see how hot these run when you plow or haul trailers!!

Dwan Hall

03-15-2005, 10:09 PM

I do have a trans temp gage and mine run between 180 and 200 when I am plowing. that is because I plow in low range.
If I was to plow in high range the temp would get high enough to burn the fluid thus causing the transmition to fail. I have seen temps in the high 2XX on plows that were used in high range even with aditional trans coolersand over 300 with out coolers.. now maybe you understand why part of the reason I have never had a auto tx problem in over 20 years. I am also aware of the problem with the new auto behind the 6.0 and that is why I bought a V-10 this time.

John DiMartino

03-17-2005, 03:41 PM

I run autos for plowing,much better suited for what i do,if i had road contracts id have a manual.My Dodge auto runs 150-170 in the pan while plowing..I did spike 185 once in a real tight area but it quickly dropped to 170 once i got out of there.Im running a 2000 Dodge/Cummins diesel 2500 pushing about 12 ft of blade between the 2 plows.My GMC runs a tad hotter at around 175-200,when the trans goes ill be putting on a larger oil cooler.Dwan,200 degrees is getting up there,thats about 230-250 in the torque convertor.You may need additional cooling. I run a double deep Mag hytec pan on my Dodge ,it holds an extra gallon of fluid.That with a 40,000lb GVWR cooler in place of the engine mounted cooler that came on the cummins trucks.

N.B.CONCRETE

03-17-2005, 04:37 PM

I thought all plow packages only had automatics . Ford does.

Thundurbyrd

06-12-2008, 04:26 PM

In the past couple of years, I have seen a gradual slide from manuals to automatics in my customers. The reasons being that some guys like the fact that if a truck has to be moved in the yard, anyone can do it without screwing things up. Also, multiple guys can use the same truck and you usually don't have to worry about figuring out which one was killing the transmission every time they drove it. Lastly, a lot of owner/operators like being able to "multi task" while driving (which is extremely hard when trying to navigate through the city in a manual).
I do agree that the smaller Ford automatics leave a lot to be desired over there manual counterpart, but once you get into the Allisons, I ask "why not an automatic?"

OneWelder

06-12-2008, 08:35 PM

I think this is a matter of location , preference & of coarse vocation. I also think that with more computer intergration it will force the move to auto. or self shifting standards . Fortunately I have not had to make this commute for several years. After spending two to four hrs in The Boston RUSH HOUR traffic driving an old GMC with 5 & 2 speed- Auto can be very attractive. ( @ that time leave before 5am - 50 to 60 min - Leave @ 7 you would be lucky to get there by 10 am - and try coming home friday night on holiday weekend, could involve stopping for fuel. Thats if you can still stand up after all stop and go clutch work
To sum up- AGE & CITY TRAFFIC promotes more progressive thinking.
Or could go the way of some cement trucks I saw at auction- 13 speeds with aux. trans that was Auto - one truck even had two aux, trans one standard one auto. I personally have no Idea how to drive that combo. of standard & auto.

Freightrain

06-13-2008, 10:50 AM

The old Detriots needed ALOT of rpm to make their power, so an automatic would KILL it in hilly terrain. If it was a project vehicle only(never leave the property) I suppose it would be an easy truck to drive, just like the old terex dumps with detroits in them. Flat on the floor all the time!

Friend works for RTA as bus mechanic. They had ALOT of issues with trannys til he figured out the cooler issue. Don't recall what he changed, but seems there was a "thermostat" device that controlled fluid going to the cooler? He eliminated that and since has had no burnt up trannys. These were the E4OD's.

Dualie

06-20-2008, 10:21 PM

I had 10 times the problems with my 6spd superdutys than I do with my auto trucks. about every 20K miles the clutch master cylinder would fail and need to be replaced. The good thing was ford sold the master and slave as a PRE bleed assembly and I learned to keep one in the tool box of the truck but it was still a pain in the arse.

other six speed problems I had 2 clutch forks break, the dual mass flywheel come apart (replaced with a single mass south bend clutch with the kevlar pilot bushing highly recommended) and it started popping out of 3rd and forth gear at 110,000 miles. changed the fluid with Mobil 1 syn. ATF @ 50K intervals.

Not my first stick shift truck either, my 18spd kenworth seems to be doing just find grossing over 110K regularly and the spicer sync 'ed spicer 5spd in my 27K empty weight f-800 boom truck is going fine also.

In my F-350 Powerstroke, auto, crew cab, LB, DRW, 2x4 needed a Trans at 150K after reverse started to shutter from backing my 6 horse trailer (27,975 lbs combined) 1000' up the hill around two corners about 50 or so times. still did fine in the forward gears.

when I had it replaced I put the cooler for a V-10 superduty in it to help with cooling. as I look out the window truck has 324,000 miles on it. just one auto Trans.

the better half's 2002 diesel 2x4 excursion with 268,000 miles is still on the original Trans with just one fluid change at 150,000 miles still shifts great.

Now I DO have a 1994 7.1 IDIT the first year for the turbo diesel before they released the first gen power strokes that ATE Transmissions like tic tacks under warranty. 11 to be exact. The E40D just couldn't handle the power the turbo motor made only had to buy one Trans re-build out of pocket at 190k After the last warranted Trans went 97K. best thing I ever bought was the extended warenty on that truck.

The thing to watch for is some times the bypass valve on the side of the 4R100 Super duty's would get stuck shut and not let fluid circulate up to the coolers. It would just bypass the fluid back to the pan and smoke the Trans in short order.

As far as rebuilt ford auto's go BTS has a rep second to NONE. but lead hill is a long way from CA, John wood down in So. Cal. builds a pretty damn tough ford auto box also.

Greg

01-05-2009, 11:37 PM

I had one truck with an automatic and will never have another. Now Running a 7.3 Powerstroke with a 6 speed manual. Plow a pile of snow with it every winter and love it for that. Pushes rings around the chevys with automatics that work with me. Or as a good friend of mine once said "If it is a work truck it has to have gears."

ohioduramax

01-06-2009, 08:26 PM

My allison automatic in my 3/4 ton GMC duramax is doing just fine at 80K. Plowed with it since it was new.

Greg

01-06-2009, 08:55 PM

Around here, if it is a work truck its got to have gears. As you can tell I am not a GM fan at all either. Have not owned any GM product since 1977. Don't try to get me into a Dodge with a Cummins and a slush box either.

I don't like the lag it takes for an automatic when plowing. With a standard out comes the clutch and everything is to the ground now. I can also go all night long on a quarter tank with my 7.3 and 6 speed.

Around here the tranny shops do a land office business in the winter on plow trucks Fords, Dodges and GM's all three.

I also love my Oshkosh for plowing with a 4 speed and 3 speed auxilary. There it is usually direct drive in the auxilary and second or third in the main depending on how deep it is and how much or how high I am winging back.

Lets face it. With a lot of people they are just to da--- lazy to drive a standard and also think a Diesel is to noisey. I know a lot of them that way. They are also the ones who scream and b---- the most about the p--- poor mileage they get with a V8 gas job and an automatic in a truck. :deadhorse

Dualie

01-07-2009, 01:29 AM

well I finally pressed my luck one too many times with my trusty 2000 F-350 Dualie, Crew Cab, longbed, 7.3L powerstroke, Automatic

I moved my little 15T carry deck crane (26,500 Lbs) went about 75 miles, pulled into the yard, and backed up to unload and low and behold she's puking the a bit of ATF out on the ground. Lost about a quart overall. went ahead and did a flush and fill but the torque converter is going south. still runs and drives great but I can sense the end is near.

maybe after I get back from Arizona in February I will look into getting a reman stuck it it.

Truck has 336,000 miles of this daily and this is the second transmission that's in it now so I guess I cant complain this ones got a hair 180k on a ford reman

And yes I know blah blah blah you own a T-800 heavy haul and a Murray why didn't you use that. because I didn't want to.

PSDF350

01-07-2009, 10:01 AM

And yes I know blah blah blah you own a T-800 heavy haul and a Murray why didn't you use that. because I didn't want to.
I love that answer think i've used it a time or two myself. And usually just after I did something not quit right, like you.

Greg

01-07-2009, 10:35 AM

:saluteGot over 200,000 on my F350 with six speed. Have put in one clutch. Changed the yoke at the same time cause it was only $29.00. It plows, it pulls, it does it all. Like I said before. No more slush boxes here after the one and only. Oh ya, and 20 MPG running down the road.

Dualie

01-07-2009, 08:04 PM

I had a 450 with the six speed. I used to keep a pre bleed clutch master slave in the garage at all times. My 97 F-350 had the dual mass flywheel COME APART. im not knocking the hand shakers but don't fool yourself their any more reliable.

Lifetime average for my 00 Auto F-350 DRW is 17.1 Mpg that's towing the insane weights 70+

And I think my main reason is the Kenworth is MUCH more high profile. More susceptible to speeding tickets. I can drag that gooseneck behind my f-350 At 70 mph and fly under the radar where it seems if I do 65 in the Kenworth im on the side of the road splaining what I was doing to the nice officer.

surfer-joe

01-07-2009, 10:48 PM

My first automatic was in a 1947 Oldsmobile, and though I have driven many a stick since then, I never liked them and have only bought autos in my new vehicles. I found that in construction and mining, autos outlasted sticks by many miles in pickups, excepting Fords.

Ford has always chosen to go cheap in the manufacture of their autos and in the shift linkage. I'd like to have ten bucks for every shifter rod I've changed in a Ford. I know that there are some folks that swear by their Fords, but I've done more swearing at them.

The C6 was about the last decent Ford auto in my experience and certainly was the last good one in a Ford pickup that performed snowplow duty. The GM tranny's have always been exceptionally better, though they have gotten cheap in the last few years too. I'd kill to keep the six-speed Allison in my 08 HD2500. What a superb transmission!

KSSS

01-09-2009, 06:25 PM

I have/ had 4 D/A trucks 01.03,05,and 06. I pull 34K gross routinely with the 3500's and 5500. Never a problem in any of them. I put Amsoil tranny fluid in them and change it every 50K and all is good. Even the 01 I had which was a first year truck didn't cost me a dime. There were some Allision issues with the 01's but I never saw them. Its great tranny in my mind. The grade braking is priceless out here. Way easier on the brakes than a manual would be.

jughead

01-10-2009, 07:31 AM

here is a dodge fan that loves this thread. looks as if all the big three diesel pick-ups have trouble with their show room trans if they are worked hard. seems like the after market guys have just about all figured out that with a few mods on any of them they will do the job. i have raced dodges for years built my own engines and trans. only troubles i have had have been to my carelessness or stupidity.

John DiMartino

01-10-2009, 10:41 PM

Jughead,I'd say the Gm/Allison is awesome,never seen one fail due to being worked hard,just when guys crank power up on duramax,and dont mod the trans.My cousins/uncle have 6 duramax/allisons from 2500HDs to 4500s,2002-2005s,all but one plows,and all are worked hard,other than some injectors under warranty,nothings happened to any of them,and most of them are closing in on 100K now or over it,all towing/plowing miles.
The 5spd auto Ford torque shift seems to be a huge improvement over the 4R100,BUT early ones (03-04)had major issues with a snap ring coming out,and a pin walking causing the cases to break.Once these were dealth with they seem to be a good trans.4R100s that work hard should be brought to Brian at BTS when its rebuild time,he will build it so it lasts as long as possible within its design limitations.
Dodge autos,starting in 07 MY the chassis cabs have an awesome Aisin automatic 6 speed with 300KM warranty (185,000)mile .If anyone doubts there confidence in the trans,that should put it to rest.The trans is only available in 3500-5500 chassis cabs with the 305hp 6.7 cummins.In the 6.7 Cummins pickups starting mid 07 they have a 6speed chrysler built auto the 68RFE,it seems to be holding up well so far,but time will tell.It isnt as beefy as the chassis cabs Aisin,but it seems to be doing the job so far.

LowBoy

01-11-2009, 11:10 AM

I have a 86 chevy ck20 with the orignal clutch With 130,000 miles & snow plow every winter with it. It just depends on who knows how to drive! I seen plenty of people drive there own trucks real hard & beat the crap out of them!

Maybe if we could get to meet up with you someday, one of us could be blessed enough to get your autograph being you know how to drive a "stick" so well...:notworthy
I had a 1986 Western Star with 850,000 miles on it that I put every mile on myself... not only did I never change the clutch, but never adjusted it once since ownership to the sale. I guess I could possibly follow you in second place for knowing how to drive a "stick" then.

Aside from that tidbit of nonsense now...

I have a problem with my 2001 F-150 transfer case all of a sudden and was wondering if anybody would have had the same issue.
I was plowing a little while ago when I went to back up and make another pass. The transfer case locks up tight in forward now all of a sudden. It backs up fine, and in 2 wheel drive everything's fine, but again, in 4X4 the transfer case just locks up solid.

Anybody ever have this happen???:beatsme

Dualie

01-11-2009, 08:52 PM

if your plowing in 4Low i would be dollars to donuts that theirs something going in your front differential. Assumeing its a 2001 superduty not an F-150

LowBoy

01-12-2009, 04:25 AM

if your plowing in 4Low i would be dollars to donuts that theirs something going in your front differential. Assumeing its a 2001 superduty not an F-150

I think that's close to true Dualie. As I thought about it (tossing & turning all night,) it feels a lot like a broken U-joint causing the axle to bind up. The truck comes to such an abrupt stop going forward, it's like there's a wrecking bar stuck in the yoke. I say that because there's no chatter or growl whatsoever coming from the case or diffs. I hope that's what I'll find when I crawl underneath it next chance I get. Too stinking busy right now in this crazy propane transport business to get a minute to look at it.:mad:

I got the truck stuck twice yesterday within the same hour while trying to move this last 12" of snow, and had to gently but forcefully horse my way out of a bind. I'm thinking now I may have done some damage on the last one...

PS: It is just a 1/2 ton F-150 with all the whimpy front end and all.