John Deere 410G and 310SG

[erthmover]

I've looked at the Deere 310SG and the 410G Backhoes and thought they were great machines but I was just wondering if anyone else has any opinions with these two machines?

[2004F550]

Both great tho i prefer the 410. We have had over 10 JD loader backhoes, can;t beatem. tried everything but always come back to a deere............tho the new volvo's look pretty sweet

[lamarbur]

hundred and hundreds of hours on 410's and 710's and they are great machines,, Also, people over look the Fermec now called Terex, and these are well designed and beefy machines,.. I looked at the Volvo 2 yrs ago when it was shown at the Ct expo and would like to try one.. They also, have a lot of design thought put in them.

[Tigerotor77W]

All great machines. I don't think there's a single "shoddy" backhoe out there anymore; it really helps to try some out.

[9420pullpan]

in my opinion the best backhoes out there...... a lot better than cat or case.

[9420pullpan]

has anyone seen the pics for the new 410H. the improvements are incredible.
first the hydraulic valves are all mounted on the cylinders. sencond the cab in unreal. complete comfort. they are making 3 different types or controls wobble stick, the pilot controls out today and a new design where the two backhoe controls are mounted on the operators seat. awesome idea. but heres the coll thing when you swing around to operate the loader the right hand control becomes the loader control. and on the back of each control there is a thumb wheel which will take the place of the extend a hoe valve on the floor and it also could be used for a 4 in 1 bucket or any other attachment. they also have a switch in the cab to change the control pattern. the control for the outriggers are right at your fingers. just a well planed out cab. they were also asking people who were sitting in it what they liked and didnt like.!!!


more info on the control valves at
http://www.machinedesign.com/ASP/viewSelectedArticle.asp?strArticleId=58414&strSite=MDSite&Screen=CURRENTISSUE&CatID=3

[TVCLTD]

We purchased a new Volvo BL70 loader/backhoe approx. 1 1/2 yrs with no
major problems ,great digging power, quick on the road has foward and reverse control on bucket lever,4 in 1 bucket with fold away forks I would highly recommend this machine, the only thing this machine is lacking is it still has is the long levers for the hoe contols

[Bob Horrell]

The new 410H also has a selector switch for hydraulic flow to the backhoe, slow, medium, and fast. Pretty cool idea.

[Tigerotor77W]

The new 410H also has a selector switch for hydraulic flow to the backhoe, slow, medium, and fast. Pretty cool idea.

It won't be out until fall, however, and even then, only in limited quanties. Construction Equipment did a review, but I have to get to class. In the meantime, http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/newsroom/410h_backhoe_031605.html

[Cat420]

On the new 410H, it would be cool if the controls that are built into the armrest could be set up like this- right control does loader functions and left control does drive functions, when facing forward.

[9420pullpan]

wow that would be really cool. never thought about that before. it would be just like running a skid steer..... great idea

[2004F550]

Yea you can get it so that the joysticks come with you, I saw it in vegas. Not sure though, think I'll stick with the pilot controls for now

[jjwright22]

Hi,

Does anyone out there know where I can find out the specific functions of the two wobble stick levers on an old jd backhoe loader?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Duke]

The thing I didn't like about the older Deeres I ran was their pump was only ~ 28G/min. Case, NH & CAT were like 34-38 GPM pumps. Maybe they've changed that, but I always thought the Deeres felt weaker from a hydraulic standpoint.

Maybe it could be the open center/closed center hydraulics played a part in the pump output?

[srs_mn]

Hi,

Does anyone out there know where I can find out the specific functions of the two wobble stick levers on an old jd backhoe loader?

Thanks,
Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Left stick is: 1.) Lower boom by pushing stick forward & raise boom by pulling stick back. 2.) Move stick left or right to Swing left or right.
Right stick is: 1.) Extend dipperstick by pushing stick forward & retract by pulling stick back. 2.) Dump the bucket by moving the stick to the right & load it by moving the stick left.
srs/MN

[mjstef]

The only thing we don't like about our 310 SG is when you swing the hoe back to the hole it don't stop instantly but over swings 6-8". I you swing back and let go of the levers it wobbles back and forth. Every deere we have ever had does this. Case and Cat stop on a dime................

[farm_boy]

This has been addressed on the new J series. Stops on a dime just like Case, NH and Cat.

[mjstef]

This has been addressed on the new J series. Stops on a dime just like Case, NH and Cat.

What did they do to address this??

[farm_boy]

The new EH machines control this via the software for the boom swing. I am speaking of only these machines. I can't personally speak for a wobble stick or pilot control machine.

[biggixxerjim]

in my opinion the best backhoes out there...... a lot better than cat or case.
I agree......... Deere defintely took the backhoe title away from cat with their g series... I was in love with it!!!!

[mjstef]

I agree......... Deere defintely took the backhoe title away from cat with their g series... I was in love with it!!!!


I'll take our 04 580 case over our 05 310SG whenever i am digging around fiber optic or gas lines. To many close calls with the Deere and the crappy backhoe wobbling all over...........................

[deeredude]

This has been addressed on the new J series. Stops on a dime just like Case, NH and Cat.
1st post:

small write up on the new J series :)
link to deere magazine (http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/media/dmag/123U_dmag_www.pdf)

[Woodstock]

The specifications are out on the J series. http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/backhoes/410j_features.html
My John Deere dealer said he shoud have some on the lot in a couple of weeks.

[KSSS]

I did not know that CAT ever had the backhoe title? ;)

CASE is currently running at 38% marketshare in the backhoe department. I don't know how the rest shake out but you wont find CAT at the top considering JD, Volvo, Terex, Komatsu are also splitting the remainder with CAT.

[mjstef]

The specifications are out on the J series. http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/backhoes/410j_features.html
My John Deere dealer said he shoud have some on the lot in a couple of weeks.


Nothing there telling me if the hoe is going to overswing on the way back to the hole.........................

[Wulf]

I agree......... Deere defintely took the backhoe title away from cat with their g series... I was in love with it!!!!


I did not know that CAT ever had the backhoe title? ;)


LOL... yeah I must have missed that email too

[Tigerotor77W]

I did not know that CAT ever had the backhoe title? ;)

Is that a national (or even local?) or global figure? I believe Cat was #1 worldwide for a bit of time. Case's rental market is bigger than Cat's, I think, and the 500-copy US Army order helped them out as well, but Case and Cat are pretty even worldwide.

Anyone else know anything of these numbers?

[biggixxerjim]

LOL... yeah I must have missed that email too

Well who has the #1 machine, then?? Case? Ha....... the only way they sell as many machines they do is

#1. Price

#2. Municipality Contract - Every municipality around me within a 50 mile radius uses Case .... again, prob. because of #1 listed above.

3. Federal Contract.... Case just got a huge deal to produce a lot of machines for Government work, not to mention they got the contract to refurbish all kinds of loaders, TLB's, and off road fork lifts.

Ive run anything from the 580E all the way the the newest 580 M (which really sucks), and none of them bettered the competition, from Ford to ... CAT!!!

[NWH]

I had to wade in on this discussion. I have owned several backhoes and
operated many more. In our part of the country the majority of the units
you see are case. Working in buckshot and gumbo mud the case is still
working strong when the cats are sitting axle deep stuck. I have owned deere machines but do not like the move to plastic and fiberglass body parts
I also have problems with pilot controls when you need to operate the hoe
and loader at the same time to get across a ditch or canal.

[KSSS]

The 38% was the North American market. I don't have the world wide numbers. Like it or not they are the number 1 backhoe in America. Certainly the 500 units to Military did not hurt, but 500 units in the grand scheme doesn't make much difference. The M series is responsible for the upswing in market share.

[biggixxerjim]

Alright you can keep your Case's!!!!!:deadhorse

[Ford LT-9000]

I think Case will always dominate the rubber tired hoe market Deere is second then the other brands are 3rd. There are more old Case backhoes around than any other brand some of them from the early 80s and 70s.

[coopers]

I think Case will always dominate the rubber tired hoe market Deere is second then the other brands are 3rd. There are more old Case backhoes around than any other brand some of them from the early 80s and 70s.

Very true.

Blake
WA

[mjstef]

Like i said before, I'll take my Case over my Deere when digging around utilities and close quarters. The Case has WAAAY more control than a Cat or a Deere. The Cat has a great loader and transmission though.

[mflah87]

I was a case guy until the dealership went under just as I was about to trade in 3 of them. I bought Cats after that, but now Nations Rent is the new Case dealer so I'm questioning going back.

[Duke]

I don't know who makes the best backhoes, but you guys gotta remember, for most buyers (not all) PRICE will rule the day. If 3 brands of backhoe are marketed equally, the lower priced unit will sell the most, even if it's not quite as good of a machine. Remember the old phrase "good enough for government work". Look at all the equipment the gov't buys. All it has to do is meet the minimum standards they set in their requirements and the lowest bidder wins.

I think if you want to know which units are the best, you really need to have a non-biased company condust a "backhoe shootout". Until then, you're bogging yourselves down in the misery of brand loyalty.

[Squizzy246B]

Remember the old phrase "good enough for government work". Look at all the equipment the gov't buys. All it has to do is meet the minimum standards they set in their requirements and the lowest bidder wins.

I think if you want to know which units are the best, you really need to have a non-biased company condust a "backhoe shootout". Until then, you're bogging yourselves down in the misery of brand loyalty.

And ain't that the truth:notworthy :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Duke]

I think Case will always dominate the rubber tired hoe market Deere is second then the other brands are 3rd. There are more old Case backhoes around than any other brand some of them from the early 80s and 70s.

That might be because CAT entered the B/H market very late. If you take a look at the "Equipment Trader" listings for used backhoes, the numbers show out of the 4100 used units for sale, the top 3 sellers are: Deere ~1200, Case ~1000 and CAT ~900 units for sale at any given time. I've been watching them since Christmas and the numbers stay pretty much the same.

Deere & Case are the 2 biggest players early on in the B/H market. CAT didn't arrive until the mid-80's, giving Case & Deere decades to flood the market with units.

Looking at those numbers tells me that CAT is gaining on the "big two" pretty quick, but Deere still has the edge in units still in service.

Looking at resale value might shed some light on what used equipment sellers view the best equipment to be, too.

[biggixxerjim]

That might be because CAT entered the B/H market very late. If you take a look at the "Equipment Trader" listings for used backhoes, the numbers show out of the 4100 used units for sale, the top 3 sellers are: Deere ~1200, Case ~1000 and CAT ~900 units for sale at any given time. I've been watching them since Christmas and the numbers stay pretty much the same.

Deere & Case are the 2 biggest players early on in the B/H market. CAT didn't arrive until the mid-80's, giving Case & Deere decades to flood the market with units.

Looking at those numbers tells me that CAT is gaining on the "big two" pretty quick, but Deere still has the edge in units still in service.

Looking at resale value might shed some light on what used equipment sellers view the best equipment to be, too.


+2. Couldnt have said it better myself.

Im not a total Case hater, their L series is a pretty good machine, definitely the best they ever produced.

CASE:

Constantly

Assembling

xxxxx

Equipment

I dont make the rules I just live by them :)

[Duke]

I went back & did some research. It's hardly scientific, but here's what I did:

I entered new parameters for the search as Backhoes for sale with model years between 1986-2007, figuring that's about the span of time CAT has been building backhoes.

CASE dropped to 890 units for sale between '85-'07

Deere only dropped to 1144 units for sale between '85-'07

CAT remained at ~875 units for sale between '85-'07 (some units didn't list the year they were built)

So that shows that Deere has this small survey won by a decent margin and that CAT has equaled CASE in sales in the last 22 years.

I realize this is only the USA used B/H market, but it's a pretty decent sample survey.

* some B/H's didn't indicate the year in which they were built, so it could be off a few units.

[tylermckee]

case backhoes may not be the best performing, but when you look are talking reliability its hard to beat a case backhoe. See them all the time with high hours where they have been rode hard all their life and they still fire up and run just like it always has, just a little sloppy.

[Tigerotor77W]

The 38% was the North American market. I don't have the world wide numbers. Like it or not they are the number 1 backhoe in America. Certainly the 500 units to Military did not hurt, but 500 units in the grand scheme doesn't make much difference. The M series is responsible for the upswing in market share.

And I'd bet that in worldwide numbers, the market percentage is not that large. I'm actually surprised that Case is at 38% -- that leaves only 62% between Cat, Deere, and NH -- all three of which are pretty big players (admittedly, NH is no longer the presence it used to be). Cat and Deere are each around 30%, so that leaves 2% for everyone else? NH, Komatsu, Terex, JCB? That just doesn't sound right. Even if we figure that Cat and Deere are each only 25%, that still leaves only 12% for the next four.

case backhoes may not be the best performing, but when you look are talking reliability its hard to beat a case backhoe.

I'd say that Case backhoes are up there on the list for solid performance. They might not have the top numbers, but their controllability is practically unmatched in the industry. Even as a devout Cat guy, I think Case BHLs are really nice machines to operate.

[mjstef]

And I'd bet that in worldwide numbers, the market percentage is not that large. I'm actually surprised that Case is at 38% -- that leaves only 62% between Cat, Deere, and NH -- all three of which are pretty big players (admittedly, NH is no longer the presence it used to be). Cat and Deere are each around 30%, so that leaves 2% for everyone else? NH, Komatsu, Terex, JCB? That just doesn't sound right. Even if we figure that Cat and Deere are each only 25%, that still leaves only 12% for the next four.



I'd say that Case backhoes are up there on the list for solid performance. They might not have the top numbers, but their controllability is practically unmatched in the industry. Even as a devout Cat guy, I think Case BHLs are really nice machines to operate.


YUP!!! You couldn't give a Cat or Deere around Fiber Optic or Gas..............

[KSSS]

I would agree that the best market share does not equate into the best machine. Case in point Ford pickups and Bobcat skid steer loaders:beatsme. I will say that around here (which means nothing on a bigger scale) that the new CASE hoe's are selling very well. I don't own a backhoe and doubt I will. So I really don't know for myself who's machine is best from an operator standpoint. The CASE dealer last Friday had just brought in a Deere 310SG on trade for a 580 Super M Plus while I was there. Around here, you don't see guys trading color very often.

I will repeat this story about CATs backhoe. A very good excavator friend of mine who was and mostly still is a very strong CAT customer. He started with a CAT 416 about the same time I did in the business 14 years ago. He now has two CAT 430D's a CAT loader, 315, newer CAT blade (I have not seen it yet to know the model but its an o3' model year), and a two CAT vibratory rollers. His off color equipment is a CASE 465 skid steer and just months ago bought a Hitachi 200 after having a 320 on RTO for months. His CAT backhoes have about 3500 hours a piece on them. One machine has had 35K in warranty work and the other 40K during that time. I am not talking about minor problems. The one machine had less than 500 hours on it and the loader broke off the tractor. The front A arms on both machines were replaced, transmission problems. I can go on with the problems. He told me that every week, during last year one machine would be in the shop. He is now for the first time seriously contimplating getting something other than a CAT hoe. I suspect it will be a Deere. I don't know if he got the two worst machines that CAT ever built, or if this is a representation of D series Cat backhoes. They will certainly need to be replaced before they come off of warranty. I am sure everyone else has stories about different machines but considering this is from the source of a loyal CAT guy and a friend it carries some weight at least with me.

[CascadeScaper]

I think he got 2 machines built on Monday or Friday, that's seriously just bad luck. I've never heard anyone have those kinds or problems, or any serious problems for that matter, with Cat hoes. Deere builds a nice hoe as well as Case, I'd buy a hoe from any of those 3 any day.

[Cat420]

I don't have an answer for those 430Ds breaking like that, except that they have more hp than a 420D. Perhaps a little too much? Still no brand should do that, but a least they covered it.

Our 420D has 3700 hours, but we have only put 8-900 of them on it. It needed a new turbo, which was our fault for not allowing proper cool down time. Other than that it has been flawless mechanically. It's picked up rocks so big that they had to be chained in the front bucket. It's pushed down 3ft diameter pine trees with the backhoe. It's fast and handles nice on the road too. In all honesty it has been as close to the perfect backhoe as I could ever hope for.

The backhoe does have a little play to it, but not enough to worry me around tight situations. I also have to question the comparison of Cat and Case in the mud. Two equally weighted machines on the same tires are not going to be a ton different in the mud. Sure if you have a 15,000lb Case it will be better in mud than a 20,000lb Cat, but that's common sense not brand ability. That's a simple matter of spec'ing your machine for it purpose.

Case does seem to be a very popular rental, since they can handle the abuse well.

I'll run anything yellow and some things that aren't, but unless Deere is that good(no great dealer here), I'd be hard pressed to trade our Cat for any other brand of backhoe. Not to mention our local Case dealer had used machines in worse condition with 1-1,500 hours more than our backhoe for more money. They seriously wanted 50k for a 580SL with 4800 hours.

[Woodstock]

I have a friend who works for cat and he told me that if you buy a new 420E off the lot it will be at least two weeks before you can get it. The booms are breaking, they are welding fish plates on them and the front axle where the pin goes in to hold the axle to the frame. It is snapping in two. They are cutting it out and welding a thicker peice of pipe in it.

We have a 416B, 416C, and a 420D and have great luck with all of them. I loaded trucks with a newer case 580 the other day, what a pos. I will stick with deere or cat any day.

[Ford LT-9000]

There is one contractor in the area that does nothing but backoe service and he has 12,000 hours on his 2005 590 Case 4x4. The only thing he has needed to do so far is some hydraulic valves. The machine works steady he is busy with the machine because he is a good operator with 25 plus years running rubber tired hoe.

I found a 2006 310SG Deere 4x4 low hours its selling for 99,000 dollars and a 2005 310SG Deere 4x4 with 996 hours on it for 89,000 says it has all options.

A 2006 Cat 420D 4x4 with 184 hours is 117,000 dollars then I found a 2005 Case 590SM 4x4 with 1100 hours with all options for 104,000 dollars.

It does show a little that Case machines hold their value.

[KSSS]

12 thousand hours on an 05' backhoe? That is a lot of seat time. :notworthy


I checked the math. If he purchased that machine at the begining of 05 to present time and put 12K on it that is quite impressive. There are roughly only 17520 hours in that time frame.

[Duke]

yeah, I think you CAT friend must have stepped on every crack, walked under every ladder, seen every black cat and probably built a couple buildings with 13 floors to get that kind of bad luck. :rolleyes:

[coopers]

I loaded trucks with a newer case 580 the other day, what a pos. I will stick with deere or cat any day.

Just out of curiosity, why was it a POS? I haven't run the M models yet, I've only run the L models. I used to use a 580B believe it or not! It was about 6 years ago that I was working for the company and the owner had two of them and damn those stupid things worked. It bugged me cuz I wanted to drive the newer stuff but what can you do. We had a few problems here and there with them but that was mainly due to poor maintenance before I was hired.

Duke, I think I'm misunderstanding your previous post about this:

CASE dropped to 890 units for sale between '85-'07

Deere only dropped to 1144 units for sale between '85-'07

CAT remained at ~875 units for sale between '85-'07 (some units didn't list the year they were built)

Wouldn't the higher the number of backhoes for sale suggest that they are not holding out as well as those that are not being sold? Meaning the owners don't want to get rid of them? Or does that mean that they are upgrading to newer machines meaning they are happy with that brand?

Blake
WA

[Cat420]

There's not really any machines that are really bad. They will all do a lot of work. Some are just better suited to certain areas. I only got to try a 580M in the yard to use the backhoe, so I can't talk about the rest. I didn't like the wrist rests for the backhoe. I use my finger tips to hold the joysticks and move my whole forearm while resting on the seat armrests, so the wrist rest were uncomfortable. I also felt that the joysticks were a little stiff, but that could just be because it was new.

Any 580SLs that I have used were lighter, slower, and less powerful than our 420D. That isn't necessarily a knock on Case, just a plus for Cat which after all does has almost twice the hydraulic flow. This is reflected loading trucks. I had to either raise the loader very early or ride the brakes and gas while approaching the truck to clear the sides. One of the first things I noticed after bringing the 420 home was the ability to hardly touch the brakes while loading trucks and have everything line up right. Perhaps the reduced hydraulic flow is the reason everyone says the Case is better for the backhoe being controlled?

[KSSS]

Duke he may have. The sad deal is CAT featured his company in one their CAT publications several years ago (he even has his name on a plaque in the CAT store). He has had some terrible luck with his backhoe's. On the other hand, he could not be happier with his 315. He has around 7500 hours on it (bought new) and next to no problems with it. He bought the Hitachi due to a poor price from CAT and a deteriorating relationship with CAT. He does say that after he bought the Hitachi things are shaping back up with CAT. I think buying another major piece that was not CAT may have made the dealership reevaluate his loyalty and forces them to work alittle harder than had been. Honestly I thought CAT would have bought him out of the machines. The warranty costs alone have to be hurting Western States.

[Ford LT-9000]

The contractor with the 590 Case works his machine allot I was suprised when he said how many hours were on the machine he bought it brandnew. It is his only job and he does allot of jobs because he is a excellant operator that can perform miracles with a backhoe. I guess thats what happens when you start in your early 20s. and now he must be 50.

Even thou his machine has high hours its taken care of I watched him digging on my neighbours property and the backhoe boom has very little slop.

[Duke]

Duke he may have. The sad deal is CAT featured his company in one their CAT publications several years ago (he even has his name on a plaque in the CAT store). He has had some terrible luck with his backhoe's. On the other hand, he could not be happier with his 315. He has around 7500 hours on it (bought new) and next to no problems with it. He bought the Hitachi due to a poor price from CAT and a deteriorating relationship with CAT. He does say that after he bought the Hitachi things are shaping back up with CAT. I think buying another major piece that was not CAT may have made the dealership reevaluate his loyalty and forces them to work alittle harder than had been. Honestly I thought CAT would have bought him out of the machines. The warranty costs alone have to be hurting Western States.

yeah, usually jumping ship to another brand gets the dealer off their arse and out to the jobsite. ;)

It's ashame that's what has to happen to finally get some attention. I was driving past a local trucking company and noticed they just had like 25 new S/A daycab road tractors delivered. You think that customer doesn't get noticed when he walks into the dealership?

That's why I'll never get any attention, being a small fish.

[Orchard Ex]

There is one contractor in the area that does nothing but backoe service and he has 12,000 hours on his 2005 590 Case 4x4. The only thing he has needed to do so far is some hydraulic valves. The machine works steady he is busy with the machine because he is a good operator with 25 plus years running rubber tired hoe.


12 thousand hours on an 05' backhoe? That is a lot of seat time. :notworthy
I checked the math. If he purchased that machine at the begining of 05 to present time and put 12K on it that is quite impressive. There are roughly only 17520 hours in that time frame.

The contractor with the 590 Case works his machine allot I was suprised when he said how many hours were on the machine he bought it brandnew. It is his only job and he does allot of jobs because he is a excellant operator that can perform miracles with a backhoe.

LT - yeah, I think he's performing a miracle alright. :rolleyes:
Let's give a little leeway and say he's had that '05 for 2 and a half years. That would be 130 weeks.
Divide 12,000 hours by 130 weeks and he's running that hoe for 92.3 hours every week straight for 2.5 years.
If he works 6 days a week that would be running the hoe (not counting transport time, lunch, fueling or anything else) for 15.38 hours a day.
No vacation, no down time, no rain days, no snow days, no sick days. Unless he is running multiple shifts and operators, he is truly a backhoe god.:notworthy
:usa

[chevy94]

I didnt want to start a whole new thread for this but sorry to get off topic, but has anyone operated the new J series deere yet?

[tuney443]

To answer the original post---when I bought my 510B in '83{first year the B's came out},Mine was the first one in our area,I really felt like the guinea pig.The first job it was on,with a 1/4 yard bucket,I was outproducing my previous hoe with a 1/2 yd. bucket in about an hour by 2 to 1.And the kicker was I never had joysticks before--right from 4 sticks to 2.My labor foreman kept tabs on production.I said to myself Deere,nor any other manufacturer can possibly build a hoe better. Was I ever wrong.My 410G can run circles around that B,even though it's got 5800 hours on her now.After a 8 hour day,I'm barely tired, thanks to those great pilot controls.The only downfall is I can't creep in tight areas like I used to--that G is huge.

[dug1016]

I didnt want to start a whole new thread for this but sorry to get off topic, but has anyone operated the new J series deere yet?

J-Seris just finally shipping, first ones are being delivered. Operates the same as a G-Series. Not to many major changes....

[tuney443]

J-Seris just finally shipping, first ones are being delivered. Operates the same as a G-Series. Not to many major changes....

You are very much mistaken.The J series has the valving right on each individual cylinder and ALL your controls are at your finger tips at the end of the arm rests.If you face forward you have the loader controls,rearward--the hoe.Those seem like major to me.

[Fieldman12]

Srs mm is correct on what the wobble sticks move on the Deeres. I don't have as much backhoe experience as some of you on here but I have been running an old Deere 410 for several years now off and on helping a buddy clean fields on some of his farms. It is a very tough machine. Personally I think the Case and Deere machines are the best. Sounds like Cat is coming up the lader quick though. They use to be a bunch of Case backhoes around but now mostly Deere. I have seen allot of New Hollands pop up in the past several years also and have many repeat New Holland/ Ford customers.

[dug1016]

You are very much mistaken.The J series has the valving right on each individual cylinder and ALL your controls are at your finger tips at the end of the arm rests.If you face forward you have the loader controls,rearward--the hoe.Those seem like major to me.

The EH valves are going on boom and arm only on TMC package hoes, not the standard J-Series. Same for the fingertip outrigger controls and the pilot controls integrated into the armrests. The TMC package should add about $10,000 to the price of a standard hoe.

Otherwise, standard J-Series hoes got new front and rear outboard planteary axles, new transmission, new monitor and new paint. Not really a clean sheet redesign, just a refreshening. You can still buy two lever, two lever Cat, Case, Ford and standard pilot control machines.

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF Fieldman12! :drinkup

[Fieldman12]

Thanks, for inviting me Countryboy. Actually I have been reading and learning here for a long time but have never posted. There is allot of good info on this webiste.:)

[Fieldman12]

Countryboy, I take it you like the Fendt tractors? Have you ever drove one?

[Countryboy]

Countryboy, I take it you like the Fendt tractors? Have you ever drove one?

Actually, no I haven't. I was looking for a good picture of a tractor to put in my avatar and this one was the best picture I found. They do look good although I'd rather be in a Deere. :D

What kinda interest you got in them Fendts?

On Edit: My mind is going bye-bye tonight :Pointhead .......Thats a Claas tractor, not a Fendt. :cool2

[Fieldman12]

Nothing runs like a Deere, but I do like Case IH equipment very well also.

[tuney443]

The EH valves are going on boom and arm only on TMC package hoes, not the standard J-Series. Same for the fingertip outrigger controls and the pilot controls integrated into the armrests. The TMC package should add about $10,000 to the price of a standard hoe.

Otherwise, standard J-Series hoes got new front and rear outboard planteary axles, new transmission, new monitor and new paint. Not really a clean sheet redesign, just a refreshening. You can still buy two lever, two lever Cat, Case, Ford and standard pilot control machines.

So like I originally said--major changes to the new J.

[Duke]

There's another nice upgrade: A new mini-joystick on the BH pilot control handle that lets you adjust the FEL while sitting in the backhoe position. Kinda looks like the mirror adjustment switch in my GMC Sierra with power mirrors.

That would be very useful for adjusting the loader while operating or creeping the backhoe while facing rearward on the machine.

[dug1016]

So like I originally said--major changes to the new J.

Well, I respectively disagree. I would call the Caterpillar E-Series a major redesign, since it doesn't "look" the same as their D-Series. It received a new backhoe dipperstick with a new E-Stick design, major changes throughout the cab, a whole new cab design, etc. Call it what you want.....:beatsme

[newbie]

I think I have one that tops all you guys. My parents bought a 1969 case 580 CK many years ago to use on the dairy farm. Suffered a hard life pushing manure all the time and loading feed. My handy brother in law overhauled the engine 3 years ago and fixed the hydraulic leaks. It 3 levers to operate the hoe and foot pedels to sxing the boom. Used it today to dig to fill material for liitle projects around the farm. I really love to run it.

This is off topic but I couldn't find a good spot for it. In the next 2 weeks I will start work on a crew running scrapers. Anybody have tips on what to expect for a kid like me just starting out?

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF newbie! :drinkup

[tuney443]

I think I have one that tops all you guys. My parents bought a 1969 case 580 CK many years ago to use on the dairy farm. Suffered a hard life pushing manure all the time and loading feed. My handy brother in law overhauled the engine 3 years ago and fixed the hydraulic leaks. It 3 levers to operate the hoe and foot pedels to sxing the boom. Used it today to dig to fill material for liitle projects around the farm. I really love to run it.

This is off topic but I couldn't find a good spot for it. In the next 2 weeks I will start work on a crew running scrapers. Anybody have tips on what to expect for a kid like me just starting out?

No offense, but hard to believe the boss is going to put you on the seat of a scraper with no experience other than on a farm hoe.Well,for starters find a friendly face there on a seasoned scraper operator and pose the same question.Honesty usually won't hurt. Good luck.

[digger242j]

I think I have one that tops all you guys. My parents bought a 1969 case 580 CK many years ago to use on the dairy farm. Suffered a hard life pushing manure all the time and loading feed. My handy brother in law overhauled the engine 3 years ago and fixed the hydraulic leaks. It 3 levers to operate the hoe and foot pedels to sxing the boom. Used it today to dig to fill material for liitle projects around the farm. I really love to run it.

This is off topic but I couldn't find a good spot for it. In the next 2 weeks I will start work on a crew running scrapers. Anybody have tips on what to expect for a kid like me just starting out?


Most of the scraper questions and comments have been posted in "Other Excavating Equipment", which can be found under, Heavy Equipment> Excavating Equipment. (http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54) (But you'll need to have made five posts before you can start a thread there...)

[John M]

I have a accu swing on my 310sg and must say it makes a huge difference in the swing play

[ndbackpacker]

I know this thread is old, but does anybody know what an accuswing is? Google seems to have a lot of golf results, but I couldn't find how it related to a backhoe.

[Bellboy]

There's another nice upgrade: A new mini-joystick on the BH pilot control handle that lets you adjust the FEL while sitting in the backhoe position. Kinda looks like the mirror adjustment switch in my GMC Sierra with power mirrors.

That would be very useful for adjusting the loader while operating or creeping the backhoe while facing rearward on the machine.

We might not like or even use TMC here, but there is nothing wrong with creeping over soft soil with your backhoe pulling and your loader lifted up.:( Our older guys do it all the time, and if many of them didn't have wives and families, I think that they would marry the machine, or adopt their machine as a child.:cool2

I think that the J series has a few very good advances over the g series, and I think that everything is very reachable without having to adjust your seat all the time. When I get in the Cat, I have got miles out on either side, and it is quite annoying to drop the steering wheel all the time, or pull my seat around. there is also good shade in the cab of the JD, as is prevelant on most of their machines. The Cat cab seems very luxurios, but it is not cosy and inviting like the JD, if that makes sense.

[tuney443]

I know this thread is old, but does anybody know what an accuswing is? Google seems to have a lot of golf results, but I couldn't find how it related to a backhoe.

Well,being the owner of a 410G,I would dare venture that it derives from accumulation--or more simply put--a hydraulically cushioned stop at the swing limit.I once had an old 3820 Cornbinder with accumulation valves that always seemed to need adjustment.Must be the same thing.

[JS580SL]

I think Case had somethan like that to. The L2 would always slow down on the swing the last few inches all the way to the sides. I never liked how it did that. Im not sure but it sounds like what your talking about?

[ndbackpacker]

That makes as much sense as anything. Thanks.

[ncbschzzt]

has anyone seen the pics for the new 410H. the improvements are incredible.
first the hydraulic valves are all mounted on the cylinders. sencond the cab in unreal. complete comfort. they are making 3 different types or controls wobble stick, the pilot controls out today and a new design where the two backhoe controls are mounted on the operators seat. awesome idea. but heres the coll thing when you swing around to operate the loader the right hand control becomes the loader control. and on the back of each control there is a thumb wheel which will take the place of the extend a hoe valve on the floor and it also could be used for a 4 in 1 bucket or any other attachment. they also have a switch in the cab to change the control pattern. the control for the outriggers are right at your fingers. just a well planed out cab. they were also asking people who were sitting in it what they liked and didnt like.!!!



more info on the control valves at
http://www.machinedesign.com/ASP/viewSelectedArticle.asp?strArticleId=58414&strSite=MDSite&Screen=CURRENTISSUE&CatID=3




The TMC hydraulics are amazing and extremely smooth, I must say that the "H" hydraulics seem even smoother than its predecessor.

[ncbschzzt]

I know this thread is old, but does anybody know what an accuswing is? Google seems to have a lot of golf results, but I couldn't find how it related to a backhoe.

Accuswing valve keeps the boom from drifting while swinging and then letting go of the stick. G's were infamous for tail swag, this will help elevate that problem. Takes about .75hr to install, it is a remotely mounted valve that has a couple of hoses and thats pretty much it. Have to drill two holes to.

[ndbackpacker]

I'll look for an extra looking thing on the hoes at work tomorrow. They don't seem to have any problem with swing accuracy, so I found the complaints in this thread interesting.

[ncbschzzt]

I'll look for an extra looking thing on the hoes at work tomorrow. They don't seem to have any problem with swing accuracy, so I found the complaints in this thread interesting.

my spelling was horrible, accuswing will take away from the boom drifting while metering the hydraulics also.

[tuney443]

I don't believe my 410G behaves like that ncbschzzt. If the machine is tilted some,the boom will slowly swing to the low side if you don't touch the stick and I do have a little creep in the boom cylinder but really not a big deal.

[ncbschzzt]

I didn't mean boom cylinder I meant swing cylinders and you may have a swing cylinder bypassing. Also an accuswing valve can keep the boom from drifting to the low side as well. If your not happy with your swing function I would just purchase the valve and install it your self. It is real easy, just need to drill two holes and install some hoses.