scraper questions

[637slayer]

how many run a frost bit? why do some people run with their lips open when they are empty, if its to see your cutting edges how do you dig when they go in the dirt and you cant see them?

[surfer-joe]

I've run what some folks call frost bits for years. The main reason for using them is that they cut a little deeper with less effort by the scraper. If you are just hogging dirt it's the only way to go. Use the thickest edges you can buy. They do allow easier penetration into hard materials or frozen ground too.

If you are doing cleanup work and need longer but smoother cuts, than use the narrower edges for a straight edge cut.

One should keep the apron closed when running empty till you are turning into the cut. This keeps the edges from throwing dirt and rocks into the air at speed, where they might hit someone close by or perhaps a windshield on a passing or following vehicle.

Ya can't see the edge when cutting anyway with a scraper. It's all a matter of feel and knowing about where your forward edge is at in the cut. A "seat of the pants" thing if you will. It doesn't take long to become familiar with how deep you cut or fill with scraper. If it does, than you are likely not suited for scraper operations anyway and should go look for another machine to operate.

[DPete]

I've been around scrapers for a while but have never heard of the term "frost bit", does that mean drop center?

[637slayer]

yep just a dropped center bit, i was just wondering how other outfits or people run. ive only worked for three different companys, the first one that broke me in i worked for them for 14 years and swore by the centerbit, and the place i work now dont even know what they are. i was also taught to run with my crowd back and lip shut, but i work with people now that run with lip open banging away, i ask them why and they all say "so i can see my edges" so i ask them how can you dig without seeing your edges? some of them see my point others just dont get it.so i point out that with your lip open all the dust kicked up by your front tires goes right under your open lip through the can right to your back air cleaner. i get so mad sometimes i stop new guys and point out some one traveling with it open, once they see the back engine engulfed with dust up over the air sucker they see my point some listen to me some dont.

[DPete]

Drop center is the only way to go for bulking dirt even on our 623 that center 5 ft. will feed the elevator. It makes the cut a little rough but sure cuts down the loading time plus easier on the machine. Have to run a hardfaced edge though or it's gone.

[Construct'O]

Frost bite is the center edge on the bowl and extends down farther,like said above.

As far as running witht the lip up i did alot.Just wanted to make sure when i got back to the cut it was set already for what i was cutting in.Have been tired and get to the cut and part way through just watching ahead of me with several scrapers loading at the same time in the cut going on feel and look to see the bowl was just sliding along with out the dirt loading.More so when out on the town to late.:)

Different types of dirt i would keep the lip tight,not opened to wide to let the dirt come in as fast.Like when finishing,or when we were working in glasier clay.The kind that start up in the scraper and before you know it is 20ft tall the breaks and fall over the back of the scraper.If you would watch you could quickly close the lip and the slab would quite and fall, not always,then open the lip easy and the the dirt would start loading again,this time more normal.Didn't always work ,but helped.Exceptions to every rule!!!!!!!

If you was loading mud,and had to go aways in the cut before you hit hard ground,so you wouldn't get the push cat stuck i would run with the lip wider open to watch how it was loading,then close as it got started.Again sometimes you needed to skim the whole cut ,would only get a half load ,but didn't stick the pushcat.Nothing ,made for a bad day then burying the pushcat.It was always better to be standing or setting on your scraper watching the other scraper hand pulling the cable.

If you can see the rooter bits(corner bits) they would help you gage how much you was cutting.Plus watching how the dirt is coming in the scraper bowl is another sign how things are going.On bigger machine watching the hoist cyclinders you could tell.Again with the lip up to the cross beam you can see how much dirt is going in the bowl,but in sucky dirt and mud it will try to suck deeper with the lip up.Theres where the feel comes also and timing ,when to know to close the lip down or open it up farther.Been in muddy cuts where you was loading the mud good then all of a sudden a bid chunk would start sliding in front of the bowl.Hopefully you was getting close to the end of the cut and could pickup and drag it out of the way.If not there was a good change it would stick you.

The biggest thing is getting started right.Coming in the cut close to the ground and as fast as you can,and in my days D9 or two picking you up you didn't want to get it stuck in the gorund to hard until you got picked up,then you let up on the throttle get set in,other push cat picks you up and adjust throttle and your off.Unless you hit a big boulder or rock.Another story right.

Always hated being push with at straight dozer,that when i wanted to get off and beat the crap out of some of them guys pushing me.Bang ,bang ,all day long.There was like everything a few,very few that even with a straight dozer could pick you up smooth with out hardly a nugde.My brother was one of them.:usa

[637slayer]

personnally i love having a center bit, the only way to go. i try to argue my point to the maintenance boss no luck. i figured that the money you saved in the fuel consumption alone by cutting load times would pay for the upkeep on maintaining centerbits on our scrapers.

[637slayer]

constructo you ever bring your load back to the cut? i seen it done a couple of times, usually by guys that showed up for work wearing their nice cowboy hats fancy boots nice shirt, you knew they just rolled in from a wild night,never even made it home to get work clothes.

[yancy44mag]

we allways called frost bits riper points in ak and drop centers and people call the side cutters but when i grew up running scrapers we called them slober bits SEABEES CAN DO:usa

[Turbo21835]

We always ran both. We usually ran two Terex Ts14Bs. We never knew which two we were going to get on the job. Sometimes we would get one with a frostbit on, and the other one wouldnt have one. It didnt really matter when we were running in softer material. If we got in hard material and couldnt get the shop to send a wrench out we had a tactic that took care of the problem. The one with the frostbit would make his first cut. Then he would come back to the cut, and move half a width over. After his second cut he had a nice "windrowed" piece between his cuts. The pan without the frostbit would follow behind and chew these windrows out.

When it comes to haul roads. We usually had to drag our own down. So we tended to run with the ejector forward for a good bit of the road. When we were getting close to a rough area we would raise the aprons and drag things out. I always tried to keep my apron closed though. The shock loads on a cable while the apron was open took its toll on the cable. This sucks when its policy for the operator to switch his own cables. Theres always tricks for that too. I would find a rock and try to get it back to the trailer. Then I would use the rock as a jack stand for the apron. This way its up rather than having the bowl up while your getting at the cable wedge.

As for pushcats. We always ran a straight blade. Either a D6R, Komatsu D85, or, my favorite, a D7H. I always had my pan operators keep moving. I would catch them. As for a smooth transition, this is simple. Keep the blade as high as you can. Try to catch the stinger with the cutting edge. Once youve made contact with the stinger lower the blade. This helps put weight on the stinger allowing the rear engine and tires put their power to the ground. The only reason I beat on a pan was the operator would do something wrong. Either he would be running away in the cut or he was doing something he shouldnt have been. I had one guy crying that I was hurting his back. He complained to the foreman and supervisor. So at different points during the day these guys would come into the cut in a pan. Neither of them had a problem. They stopped and asked me about it. I told them that a 627G in 2nd gear just wont stay in front of a D7H. Thats when the operator got his ass chewing. Good old job site communication, you run, I dont slow down to hook back up with that stinger. It gets the point across eventually.

[RollOver Pete]

constructo you ever bring your load back to the cut? i seen it done a couple of times, usually by guys that showed up for work wearing their nice cowboy hats fancy boots nice shirt, you knew they just rolled in from a wild night,never even made it home to get work clothes.

Back in the day at the E.L. Yeager scraper races,
my partner and I would sometimes bring back just enough to pop a quick load and pass the pair in front of us....
Ya know how it is.... theres always gotta be someone messing with somebody on a dirt job.
Not that we (I) were ever guilty of such selfish and dangerous acts of push-pulling.:naughty
After all, it was the E.L. Yeager scraper races....
Thats still my story....and I'm sticking with it....:angel

ps...
#1312 was the rig I ran for a few years.
It was the only one with the fancy lil aluminum air cleaner thingy.
pss.....
Notice the fullness of the load!
:cool:

[RollOver Pete]

:cool:

[RollOver Pete]

:cool:

[637slayer]

that is one impressive lineup! how many scrapers total?are they all Ds i couldnt quite read the side of ol 1312, pretty impressive load, i have never seen a d without a cab, those are my favorite kind of pics.what were all you guys building?

[RollOver Pete]

Those were 657B's.
IMHO, the best twin engine scraper ever made!
I don't remember exactly how many pairs Yeager had?
Maybe 8-10 pair...or 16-20 twin engine tractors.
They had a bunch of 651B's and E's.
The pics I have are of the Edison job in Anaheim Hills, Ca.
1991-1993
:cool:

[Construct'O]

Thanks for sharing the great pics as usual !!!!!!

I had to smile when you said "there always someone messing around on a dirtspread" How true, the races were.

I have done a few that wouldn't have been considered to cool now days ,but at the time,seemed with in reason! Because of who i was working with and for. If you know what i mean!

Biggest twin barrel i ever run,was 637C push and pulls,got to break in three new ones on the same job in 8 month.That was one of my highlights in my scraper career 37 years ago.:usa

[Gavin84w]

Great pics ROP, the scraper is king in California thats for sure. Downunder we call the centre edge when extended the "stinger" and the push pull hook is the bail. Any one else got some big scoop fleet pics from SoCal?? or any where else.

[surfer-joe]

Yeager sure loved their open ROPS Cats, eh Pete?

[637slayer]

looks like the most perfect scraper setup i have ever seen,rolling hills,no rocks,everone wearing tshirts,no dust what a thing of beauty. plenty of petersons for the single engine guys, do you work on jobs like that all the time? for all those scrapers i think i only seen one blade.i ran a 937c for 8 years not a pushpull,run alot of 31,41,51cs and liked them all but the 37 was always my favorite before i die i wish i could run a 57.you said the b was your favorite,these last few years ive been runnibg newer equipment 37g,e,e2 even our d was new to me when i started,ive come to really like the series 2 e its still not a 57 but at least its not a 27. especially like climate control and tunes,just wandering what you thought of any of the newer scrapers?i could look at pictures like those all day, if your gonna move big dirt you gotta have big iron.

[637slayer]

why does every one park with their lips up?

[RollOver Pete]

Thanks for sharing the great pics as usual !!!!!!

I had to smile when you said "there always someone messing around on a dirtspread" How true, the races were.

I have done a few that wouldn't have been considered to cool now days ,but at the time,seemed with in reason! Because of who i was working with and for. If you know what i mean!

:usa

Ah.....
the memories....

We had a way of making the job "fun".
Most of the stunts we pulled back then would get you fired today.

On push pulls, A having a good partner is the key to success.
Two people need to be able to think as one.
I was blessed with having a awesome partner as well as being a close friend.
Jim Francis has since retired, and I do miss running with him.
I have yet to find a push pull hand that was as easy to work with as him.
Almost like we could read each others minds.
My foreman at Yeager, Dudley Elswick once told me that he could just sit back and watch us for hours.
He said that the way we worked together was amazing....
As if there was a 60' piece of rope holding us together.
Yeah....we could make those machines sing!

A few pointers or "must haves" I'd like to share.

First...and by far the MOST important....
Ya gotta have a good ride!
By that I mean a good hitch and a seat that works the way it was designed to work.
Your body and health are a valuable thing.
Beating yourself to death will not make you a rich man.
It makes the boss a rich man.
You end up an being an old crippled has been who should have listened to the advise of others.

Living with a back injury as I have for the last 13 years really sucks!
My injury was a result of falling off of a transfer trailer while tarping my load.
It could have very well been caused by bouncing over a rock or getting slammed by your partner, but not in my case.
The two crushed disks and pinched nerves ended my scraper days.
Anything where I need to be twisted around looking back as in a scraper or skip loader while using the gannon is a big NO NO.
I can get by running loaders and dozer's even though it does get painful at times.
In production loading as I did in Baker, I just tell everyone up front at our first safety meeting that I'm not going to turn around and look behind me 1200
times a shift.
That's what mirrors are for.
People have no place being anywhere behind me so unless you want an accident to happen, stay far away from the back of my machine.
This includes foreman, supers, H2O truck drivers and dump truck drivers.
I always make myself 100% clear on this with everybody.
If they expect me to meet their production #'s, they need to make sure I'm comfortable when loading.
Watching out for someone who shouldn't be there in the first place wastes my time and the contractors money.

Back to push pulls....
You need to be able to communicate with your partner.
When I run the front, I decide where to dig and dump.
Hand signals are the key.
A thumbs down to my partner lets him know to set in and load first.
A fully opened apron lets my partner know that we are about to come to a stop.
Two hands drawn apart lets him know to single out and self load.
There are many different signals... Those were just some of the more common ones we used.

Good push pull hands will never leave their partner behind....no matter what!
The front will either slow so the rear can catch up or the rear will help push the front thru the fill or up a hill.

We (Jim and I) would always be the ones who dumped the shoulders or picked up the edges.
There was nothing that would give me a bigger rush than climbing up and straddling an edge that everyone else was afraid to get.
When hooked up with Jim, I was confident that he would stay hooked up to me If I fell off.
This way he could pull me back up If I hadn't already pulled him off.
When pulling Jim, he knew that I wouldn't back out of it if he started to fall off of an edge. I'd take him right to the limit and keep the coals pored to her.
Sure we would both slide off every now and then...
No biggie... Just steer down, open your apron a bit and use the front engine to keep you pointed the right direction.
You'll find the bottom sooner or later.

There were times when we'd single out on an edge and if i got hung up, Mauricio "The Mad Mexican" who ran a 10 would seize the opportunity to spin me around by my stinger and then push me off the slope down into a canyon.
At quitting time, most of us would hang out till dark having a (few) cold ones and cooking up some carne asada.
How we ever made it home' I'll never know

There was never a dull moment back in the Good Ol' Days!
Thats what makes those days, the jobs and the people I worked with so special to me.
Those Good Ol' Days are a thing of the past...and long gone.
:cool:

[RollOver Pete]

Ya know how people have a way about making up names for fellow operators?
Mine was obviously RollOver Pete.
Saddam Hussein wearing the shades..
Thumper...... red jacket ...Jim Francis
Cheese wizz....behind Thumper
Hollywood..... red hat
Pink Fkoyd......white hat behind Hollywood

The truck pic is Peterbilt transfer I had loading flux in Bouse Az.
Thats the trailer I fell off of.

The two jacked up 657's are Pink Floyd running front and Candy Randy pushing.
They finally folded under pressure allowing Thumper and myself to once again SACK them.:falldownlaugh

:cool:

[RollOver Pete]

:cool:

[Ray Welsh]

:cool:

Hi Rollover Pete, What are you building there? All that dirt being moved, and not one compactor to be seen!!

[mag6000]

Great stuff ROP! Always enjoy your posts and pics.

Here is a dumb question. What factors dictate how the equipment is parked at night? Am I right to assume they are parked a certain way in order to help the mechanics and/or the fuel trucks do their jobs?

Thanks

[RollOver Pete]

looks like the most perfect scraper setup i have ever seen,rolling hills,no rocks,everone wearing tshirts,no dust what a thing of beauty. plenty of petersons for the single engine guys, do you work on jobs like that all the time? for all those scrapers i think i only seen one blade.i ran a 937c for 8 years not a pushpull,run alot of 31,41,51cs and liked them all but the 37 was always my favorite before i die i wish i could run a 57.you said the b was your favorite,these last few years ive been runnibg newer equipment 37g,e,e2 even our d was new to me when i started,ive come to really like the series 2 e its still not a 57 but at least its not a 27. especially like climate control and tunes,just wandering what you thought of any of the newer scrapers?i could look at pictures like those all day, if your gonna move big dirt you gotta have big iron.

Every now and then I'll get sent out to a big dirt job.
McCoy, Sukit, ACI are some that I went out on in 2007.

The 657B was a much better ride than the E's.
The seats worked better and the trans hold would hold a gear until you let off of the lever.
The E's still shifted when the computer told them to.
Visibility seemed better on the B's
The E's had more power but they would beat the tar outa ya.

The newer scrapers are nice when they're new.
But there's too much plastic, electronics and other sissy stuff in them for my taste.
Given the choice between a 657B and a newer tractor,
I'd take the B any day!

Running an open cab isn't that bad.
You just dressed accordingly.
At the end of the day you looked like you had put in a full day!
And with the pusher fans and the leaky exhaust, it didn't get any better than that!
Ahhhh....
I love the smell of diesel fumes in the morning!
:cool:

[RollOver Pete]

Hi Rollover Pete, What are you building there? All that dirt being moved, and not one compactor to be seen!!

That was a job we did for Edison.
They were going to move the high tension power lines.
Also, we extended Imperial Hwy up over the hill to Santiago Canyon Rd.
And finally we put in a huge sub devision.
I'm not sure how many homes were built?
But everything on top and to the west was part of the project.
There were some 824's there...
I think about 5 in all.
There were fills of over 300' and with all the 57's and 51's running a pattern, compaction was hardly a problem.
:cool:

[Mass-X]

Ahhhhhh.......... the revered world of Californian scapers...... :notworthy

I've got an independently contracted mechanic working on my scraper fleet right now who's from California. He's worked for Ralph Mitzel, RenTrac, Signs & Pinnick, err, oops, I mean Screams & Panic, as well as the revered Sukut Construction Co.

I love listening to his stories of how those big California scrapers spreads operate.

What I just can't get over is how much those contractors seem to prefer those B series machines in California. He loves that old iron too. :confused:

I'll stick to me beloved G's any day.

Nice pictures RollOverPete. If I recall, didn't you say you're currently working for Sukut? Are they still married to their repowered 657B's or have they tried out any G's yet to see what I real push-pull is like? :D

[RollOver Pete]

Great stuff ROP! Always enjoy your posts and pics.

Here is a dumb question. What factors dictate how the equipment is parked at night? Am I right to assume they are parked a certain way in order to help the mechanics and/or the fuel trucks do their jobs?

Thanks

Yep...
Fuel tanks to the inside so the fuel tanker could drive down the line and take care of both sides.
If I remember right, there would be 2 delivery's a night.
I don't know how much fuel a T&T holds, but I'd hate to be the one paying the bills.
:cool:

[RollOver Pete]

Ahhhhhh.......... the revered world of Californian scapers...... :notworthy

I've got an independently contracted mechanic working on my scraper fleet right now who's from California. He's worked for Ralph Mitzel, RenTrac, Signs & Pinnick, err, oops, I mean Screams & Panic, as well as the revered Sukut Construction Co.

I love listening to his stories of how those big California scrapers spreads operate.

What I just can't get over is how much those contractors seem to prefer those B series machines in California. He loves that old iron too. :confused:

I'll stick to me beloved G's any day.

Nice pictures RollOverPete. If I recall, didn't you say you're currently working for Sukut? Are they still married to their repowered 657B's or have they tried out any G's yet to see what I real push-pull is like? :D

Oh yeah....worked for Screams and Panic in Beaumont.
I guess Signs sold his shares and now its Pinnick Ink...
or Pink Ink....

I was on rental to Sukut earlier in the year in Oxnard.
I'm not sure if they have any G's but I have seen some of their B's over at Johnson Tractor in Riverside getting repowered 2 months ago.
:cool:

[RollOver Pete]

why does every one park with their lips up?

To check fluids, cutting edges and let everyone know that the machine is running.
They also run the ejector forward.
A machine with its apron down is not running or down for repairs.
:cool:

[mag6000]

Yep...
Fuel tanks to the inside so the fuel tanker could drive down the line and take care of both sides.
If I remember right, there would be 2 delivery's a night.
I don't know how much fuel a T&T holds, but I'd hate to be the one paying the bills.
:cool:

Thanks.

I hope you don't mind some basic questions. I'm very interested in how dirt jobs like that Edison job are run with respect to day to day operations from an operators point of view.

What is the typical daily routine for an operator on a job like this?

How are operators assigned to a particular machine? Is it by experience? Company seniority?

What machine does the least experienced operator get? Which does the most experienced operator use?

Thanks again.

[Gavin84w]

Scrapers-what earthmoving is all about!!!

ROP would it be possible to document here for all of the scoop fans who are the big scraper fleet operators in California (or anywhere else in the US) and what they are running.From along way away downunder i have come across various bits of info from the net, forums etc on outfits like Sukut, Independent, Mietzel etc. but i am sure there must be others both still running and long gone. Recently got some info on Tutor-Saliba who seem to have had a big fleet of 666.

On the east coast of Australia Abigroup would be the premier scraper operator with a 40+ fleet of scoops comprising 637E/G, 651B/651E and recently acquired 4 657G. Leighton contractors have recently begun purchasing there beloved 630 series scrapers again,purchasing 4 31G and 2 37G after being out of dirt for about 10 years in New south wales. I remember when they had 24 631E running back in the early 90,s and SP505 was presented as the 100th 631 they had purchased in Australia at that time.

On the west coast there are some big scraper operators with Piacentini the biggest, http://www.piacentini.com.au/



Look forward to the replies.

[637slayer]

my favorite thing to do on my 51b was to drive by new people or other people on the ground especially gradechecker and pushcat hands lock it down in second and rap it up drive by so the fins on the front would blow right at them and try to blow their hats off, got a couple in my time.

[Mass-X]

If Pete doesn't mind, I can answer that question from my perspective. I've spent the last 9 years as a grading foreman/superintendent, with the majority of that time spent in charge of scrapers.

mag6000: "What is the typical daily routine for an operator on a job like this?"

Right at start of shift on Monday there's a 30 minute safety meeting. Everyone on site attends and signs the safety sheet. It really is important to pay attention, and well conducted safety meetings will outline the operators on any risks/problems/accidents involved, how the previous week ran concerning budget, and what specific tasks need to be completed this week to meet schedule (let the operators know that a certain cut MUST be done by end of shift Tuesday, etc).

I hate it when foreman's/superintendents try to keep operators in the dark. I strongly feel the operators should know they're only moving dirt at a 7% profit while the bid was set up for 24% as an example. They should know that a certain cut/fill didn't get finished on schedule, etc. I feel if you let them know what's going on on the job, more operators are inclined to actually care about the work they're doing.

Anyway, back to subject. After the Monday morning safety meeting with the Superintendent and/or Safety Coordinator, the operators will meet with their foreman who will tell them to get on their machine and pick up where they left off, or to change to a different cut/fill, etc.

The other days of the week will begin with all the operators meeting their foreman at the line-up for a 10 minute toolbox talk (safety reminder, and necessary updates, production from the previous day, etc) and then get to work.

"How are operators assigned to a particular machine? Is it by experience? Company seniority?"

Skill is important. The best scraper hands will typically get the best scrapers, best dozer hands get the best dozers, etc.

Some of the guys who've worked for me dislike me for that. Some guys may have been there for 7 years, so they feel entitled to the best scraper, but they’ve got a slow pace. While the newer kid who’s been running for 2 years runs hard and takes care of his machine. I have no problem taking the older guy out of his machine and replacing him with the faster guy.

In the end it all comes down to the bottom line.

Overall, your skill level will be matched to the machine you run. As you gain skill and knowledge, the opportunities to move up will present themselves.

What machine does the least experienced operator get?

The water pulls typically. I think it’s best to put the guys new to big dirt jobs there, let them listen to the job over the radio each day. Let them learn how these big jobs work, how to stay out of the way, but stay on top of their tasks, etc. It really helps them to have that feeling for big dirt jobs when they get placed on a different machine.

Which does the most experienced operator use?

The machine equipped with the GPS. :D Typically the best operators will run what they're most skilled at. Best push-pull guys will pick their preferred partner and run the best scraper. Best dozer hand will be the finish hand in the D6 or D8 doing the finish slope work. Best blade hand will be finishing the pads/road grades while the inexperienced guy works the haul roads/fill.

For me, the new guy will go on the water pull, and then to the compactor, then to scraper, then dozer, then blade. Obviously, developing a skill or preference for something particular along the way (GPS, grade checking, good on slopes with dozer, etc) may change that progression.

Keep in mind my experience is 95% with push-pull scrapers. Crews that run singles often start their guys on one of the singles and just say follow the guy ahead of you.

I'm accustomed to hour-by-hour scheduling and monitoring of profit/loss/progress on the jobs I've worked on, so putting the new guy on a production oriented machine was usually reserved until he'd earned his wings on the water pull or non-GPS equipped compactor. Then he could get the opportunity to dive into the race, have the cut cops monitor his load times, have the foreman screaming at him to go faster, dive off the bank regardless of dozer prepping the cut, etc.

I love big dirt jobs.:drinkup

[RollOver Pete]

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Thanks...:notworthy

[mag6000]

Mass-X, thanks a bunch for your insights. I find this thread fascinating. For all the years that I've been observing these big scraper jobs, I've always wanted to know what the inner workings of the crew were like.

[alan627b]

I'm really enjoying the big dirt pics, it's what I saw on vacation out there 2 years ago. The scale of the projects floored me. A 657 is one impressive piece of machinery!
I work for an outfit here in Omaha, Nebraska. We've got 9 631D's (hate them!) a few 613's, and my weapon of choice, the 627B. We have 25 to 30 of our fleet of 40 running at any given time. One of the conditions of using "old iron" I guess. The mechanics like them because of their simplicity and minimum of electronics, compared to the newer models. I assume they'll stick with them until parts availability becomes a problem.
Regulations requiring repowers haven't made their way here.....yet.
As far as running around with the lip open, unless your are entering the cut...I see it as a bad habit, you could encounter overhead obstructions, it raises the machines center of gravity,as does "high panning", it just plain looks stupid...and on our jobs, if a mechanic sees you doing it, you'll catch hell for it. Having the lip open just beats the hell out of the linkages and bushings, and places undue load on the seals in the lift cylinder.
Running back to the cut with the ejector forward, and the ram extended, beats the seals out of that cylinder. And all sorts of bad things can happen, if you forget to put the gate back, start loading, and a big clod falls over the back and nails a hose or an electrical connnection...
As Mass X might agree, that's one way to get demoted back to the water wagon or worse, a tractor with a pull roller...ZZZZZZ.
We had a job where a guy got a 23 yard cube in the bowl (!) and in the process tore off almost all the hoses and electrical connections passing over the gooseneck to the draft arms. John, our mechanic, handed the "operator" a shovel, and told him shovel it out, or he was fired. I'll bet he thought twice before power stuffing another 27.
Good thread, keep it going!
alan627b

[637slayer]

me too more pics please,as soon as i can figure out how to scan my pictures then post them ill do it.

[Gavin84w]

Mass X, from all the big dirt jobs you have been around is there some pics to go with your stories!! Sounds like you have had some good operators and equipment at your disposal, would you be able to share some numbers and sites etc???

[637slayer]

one of my favorite single engine scrapers was a 641b i never hear any one on here talking about them, just wondering if anyone else has ever eun one.

[DG75]

Great forum... alot of knowledge being passed on here....

[dirt doc]

Hey guys could anyone tell me the horse power of the Wabco 333 F Scraper?

[JDOFMEMI]

The brochure posted in this thread : http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5118&page=4

Says that the 333F had a 500 hp 12V-71T

[Taylortractornu]

MassX You run your job like my dad did way back when. Ive worked a job or 2 and we had some veterans from a coal yard and a quarry. One ran a clam bucket crane and said he was a crane hand. He was good iffen you needed stuff slung all over the site lol. He also ran loader and dozer mixing coal on a concrete deck. He had trouble even moving 24 inch pipe around the yard with a pipe clamp. On loading trucks he was fair if you wanted to remove sideboards. He always wondered why he got put on sifting shot rock. On another part we had another operator out with a death in the family. This old coal yarder got on the mans TD15 that had just been reconditioned and painted and was pushing where we were striping. It hadbeen wet and cold and the clay and topsoil was comming off in big peels. Well I lloked up and told him that when it got over the spill rack to either cut on way or taper the cut abit. We were pusing this wet stuff up to a windrow and picing it up with a track loader and a tractor pan. The next thing I see was a peel of dirt hanging off the back of the TD15. and him still pushing. He went up by one of the cranes to pull it off then he got to shovel and pay for the pain and exhaust and the air cleaner. Later that day they put him on a tractor pan and he griped about the dozer being taken away he later screwed up badly on the tractor and got put on a sheeps foot tractor. He quit later.

I was over maintenance on my part of the job. I had to set alot of folks straight on who ran what. I hate to see a job where everyone hopes on whatthey want to run that leads to dead machines. there was only 3 of us that could run the crane loader excavator and backhoe and scraper. The rest of the operators were younger or didnt operate to suit the super.

[Captain Call]

Pink Ink huh? That's funny since I don't care much for Rick Pinnick. I worked for Pahla for a few years before Tom sold everything. I ran 57 E's, 37 C's and E's and their 23 F. The 37C's were my favorite of the 37's but those 57's are fun.