Cat,Volvo,or Deere

[Cory76]

Hi, The city that I work for is looking at purchasing a new grader this winter, and I would like to get some pro's, con's and general opinions on the different brands so we can make an informed decision with info from the guys running these machines, not just rehearsed speaches from salesman! We have had a Cat 140G Since 91 and it has been good to use, despite its early abused life from a very ramey operator! So I'm a little partial to the Cat but I've heard good things about the Volvo's also, any info would be appreciated.

This should start a few arguments:)

[9420pullpan]

Cat is my vote. they weigh a lil more than the deere. the volvo is alright but the cat will out last them all. depending if you are in the market of a new M series or an older H model, the M series has the joystick controls and are a little pricey, on the other hand a late H model should be easy to find on machinerytrader.com

[plowking740]

I have operated both Brand new 160 H and a Deere 772d and If i had to choose, I think it would be a cat. I have had numerious problems ( mostly little things) with the deere, including chainging the brass in the blade slide 4 times in 9 months. the Cat I ran last year only got brass twice in a year.
I know its not much, but it is down time and it gets to be a pain working with sloppy equipment. The cat was better on fuel, had better visability, more room in the cab, less operator maintaince ( fewer grease nipples), Higher lift on the blade. ( i dont care what anyone says, it is true. you notice this when you try to climb on a trailer.) I havnt got to run a Volvo yet, but I spent many years on a series3 and 4 champ 740, and I didnt mind either of them. but I still would go with cat. but the final decider will be the almighty dollar.
as for the M series, if it was me, I would hold off for a year or two more, let them work out any bugs that might be showing there ugly heads..

[Dwan Hall]

Talked to our local airport grader operator last week and asked him how they liked there Volvo's compared to there Cat's. He said the Volvo was a nicer cab and did alright except when transitioning from hard surface (black top, Cement) to dirt when using float. The Volvo would not respond fast enough to keep the blade from digging in. He said when coming out of float you had to pull the levers back 3 times to get the blade to respond but the Cat response was immediate. They have 3 Volvo's and 1 Cat.

[Grader4me]

The Volvo would not respond fast enough to keep the blade from digging in. He said when coming out of float you had to pull the levers back 3 times to get the blade to respond but the Cat response was immediate.

That's strange..


I've operated different types of graders over the years and Cat really has been the cadillac of them all. Today, if I had to choose a grader that in my opinion would be the best, it would be a Cat..no contest..

plowking...Good to see you're still kickin:)

[plowking740]

yup, still kicking. Just sitting back, reading and learning.

[Cam7775]

Hi Cory

I just went through the same process for the city of Airdrie in Alberta.
The 940 Volvo
The the vovlo was junk( sorry to all you Volvo fans......) maybe it was just the one we demoed.There was alot of pump noise coming from under the cab but when I asked about it the rep told me this was the transmission..my guess is that the tranny is some how linked the Hydr pump. There was also an Issue with fuel economy that was never really explained....I was told to run the machine at about have the rpms for max fuel economy I found even with the cruise set this seemed alittle wierd. It was great to road as it had an 11 speed transmission. I did not like the vis out the back and if you were using this machine in traffic(snow removal) it would be very easy to lose sight traffic behind you. If you have operated a komatsu it seemed about the same but with less power.

The 770 Deere

I wonderful improvment over the first series. If you operate a Cat H series tehn you have already run this grader with a few differences. The transmission you will love EBS is the bomb. Event base shifting learns how you operate and adapts to you. very smooth. did I mention smooth? Its loader tha the vovlo. and I think if you owned it for a few years the cab seals would be toast but other than that this was the grader that would have won.

140M:notworthy

go to the cat Dealer on Monday and request a Demo.......if not get in touch with me at the city on Monday.....cameron.dawe@airdrie.ca

We went with this grader




hope thats helps

Cam

[Cam7775]

sorry about the spelling boys...

I still can't post my pics guys the files are to big..sorry gents

one month before we take delivery:D :D :D :D

[Cory76]

Great info Cam, I was hoping someone had done the demo thing that could help me out. Were about 700km from any major dealers so we probably won't get much seat time in any of them until we go to the city for a couple days.
The M looks like a great machine, I'm just a little scared of it being all new technology, as were kinda in the boonies up here.What sold you on the M?
Were all the machines close in price?

[Grader4me]

sorry about the spelling boys...

I still can't post my pics guys the files are to big..sorry gents

one month before we take delivery:D :D :D :D


For gods sake man download an image resizer:) One month huh? Bet you're not sleeping much at night eh?:D

[Dwan Hall]

For gods sake man download an image resizer:)

I get spam for those resizer things all the time. Here is a link to one.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx

I wouldn't know what to do with an "M", but I bet I could learn.

Maybe they would take this in trade?

[Grader4me]

I get spam for those resizer things all the time. Here is a link to one.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx

I wouldn't know what to do with an "M", but I bet I could learn.

Maybe they would take this in trade?


That's the resizer that I have as well. Dwan, I wouldn't even consider trading if I was you. As a matter of fact I wouldn't trade even unless they gave you some money to boot :D

[roadrunner]

I demoed A Volvo 970 this past summer, a Deere 892D this January 08, and am still waitng for Cat's 160M to date. (How does Cat expect to sell these M series when you can not even get a brochure to keep , let alone bring out a demo?) I hear there is one or two in my area now but other Municipalities have already purchased the M and are still waiting for theirs?:beatsme:beatsme
My results;
Deere 892- Cab is real nice,nice visibility,nice foot feet and floor controls,no more loud fans in cab and replaced with small little window vents.This machine had all wheel drive which I thought was great seeing I never ran one before.But noticed for plowing 7th gear max-8th did not have enough power and was told by salesman 8th is just for roading.To clean rad out still need a tool box.Overall machine was small and under power to Cat and Volvo.
Oh and the automatic was good for the deere as well.
Volvo 970-Cab is the best of all graders out their for comfort and location of controls and functions,Defrost fans are gone and replaced with 2 speed control just for window defrosting(does not blow Hot cab air against window making them fog up!!):):)Also has other vents to keep the rest of the cab warm also.Excellent view out of windows,good seat and arm rests compared to Cat H series,Hydralic operator controlled reversing Rad fan which will hardly ever have to be cleaned. 5 wear pads on the circle insted of 3 now.Better fuel economy while 1500 rpm and down. I really liked runnig it at 1500 rpm while blading-really quiet and the best thing was I just about doubled my blading speed.This took some getting used to travelling that fast but will appreciate it at the end of the day with less roads to go over tommorrow!Had the 11-6 transmision and shifted really smooth in travel, auto,and manual.
Cat 160M????? Still waiting for demo!
I was really wanting to try it out with the sticks in it but from what I read around here if I cannot snowplow in 8th gear and run 47kph I do not want this machine.I know construction guys will love it but for road maintenence not for me.Already run 160H in winter with 8 speed auto, it does O.K. not like 970 for power though.Snowplus tires all around are a must I say for plowing,and definitely worth the money!Saved my butt alot from get stuck!
Could compare with 160H model but that was last years.

Overall for I would pick the Volvo for comfort,power,fuel,and reliable and service!Hands down!:notworthy:D

"just my 2 cents"

[Cory76]

Last week we got to demo a 140m. It was nice once you got used to it, The only real thing that I found, was that the steering was a little touchy, but they say that it will be adjustable on the 08's. I liked the visability. I realy liked the articulate return to center, and how you can do so many function's at once. We also had a Volvo about a month ago, and it was nice also.The hydraulics were faster than the cat(espesialy the circle turn) And it seemed to cut ice a little better also, I guess because its heavier. Rear visability is an issue the backend is a little long and it did have a fairly loud wine in the cab from the transmision, but they said there is an update for that.
We were trying to get a Deere also , but the they don't seem to interested in our buisiness,didn't get a demo up here and are 20k more than the cat!

So after demoing the 2 we are having a tough time deciding. The cat is a little more money, and I'm still a little scared of it simply b/c its so new, and there seems to be so much more to go wrong. But I know that Cat usually does there homework and alot of testing.

I called a few refrences that the salesman gave me, The Cat was mostly positive with a few minor problems. The Volvo was a different story, 3 out of 4 people that I called were very disapointed with them, mainly because of lots of little mechanical problems. One guy even started yelling at me because he thought I was the Volvo service man!

So it looks like I'm leaning towards the Cat. For you guys running the M's, are you happy with them??

[Eric]

I run a 16M and LOVE it. The only thing hat has rared it's ugly head is on the slide shims. There is a nut tightening system that is connected to a ball berring that suposedly tightens the play in the shims. it's a poor design and has already broken on us. Be sure to check/tighten this every time you change edges. We generaly blow through a set of edges is 7 to 10 days. Other than that it is a gem.

[sdPete]

700 hrs on 140M in South Dakota, so far so good, a little stiff on the below zero days doing snow. Grader does what most any other current production machine would do, controls are all changed, though. The computer runs the machine, operator provides input via joysticks and buttons. Steering takes some time to get the feel, it comes with practice, high speed handles fine. Front visibility is good, rear I depend on the mirrors also have camera/monitor (aftermarket). Takes less fuel than the 140H. Dealer hoping we trade soon as possible due to heavy volume of inquiries on when used M will be available.

[roadrunner]

Last week we got to demo a 140m. It was nice once you got used to it, The only real thing that I found, was that the steering was a little touchy, but they say that it will be adjustable on the 08's. I liked the visability. I realy liked the articulate return to center, and how you can do so many function's at once. We also had a Volvo about a month ago, and it was nice also.The hydraulics were faster than the cat(espesialy the circle turn) And it seemed to cut ice a little better also, I guess because its heavier. Rear visability is an issue the backend is a little long and it did have a fairly loud wine in the cab from the transmision, but they said there is an update for that.
We were trying to get a Deere also , but the they don't seem to interested in our buisiness,didn't get a demo up here and are 20k more than the cat!

So after demoing the 2 we are having a tough time deciding. The cat is a little more money, and I'm still a little scared of it simply b/c its so new, and there seems to be so much more to go wrong. But I know that Cat usually does there homework and alot of testing.

I called a few refrences that the salesman gave me, The Cat was mostly positive with a few minor problems. The Volvo was a different story, 3 out of 4 people that I called were very disapointed with them, mainly because of lots of little mechanical problems. One guy even started yelling at me because he thought I was the Volvo service man!

So it looks like I'm leaning towards the Cat. For you guys running the M's, are you happy with them??

Cory76
Glad you got to run the M series.What do you think the steering would be like in -40C?Is there a steering pump up on the neck?I really like what Cat has done to improve their graders but I would wait till they get all of the "bugs" out first.We just purchased 2 new Volvo's and got rid of our Cat this winter.Where are your dealers in Winnipeg or Saskatoon?Remember good service is a must Because all machines break down.(just some more than others!!):D
Go with the Volvo you won't be sorry and will have extra money left over to boot!

Where are all the M series operators? Must be more than sdPete and Eric out there?None in Canada yet?:drinkup

[sdPete]

steering at -40C....

I see in the manual Cat has a 0W-20 fluid available, I think ours came with the 10W fluid which is OK down to about 0F, the 0W-20 should be better.

[Cory76]

Well it is coming down to the crunch, stay with the traditional volvo or jump at technology with the cat? My concerns with the cat are the steering with temps of -35...-40 , what happens if that "warm steering oil light comes on and you are stuck with no way home???? When we are looking at a probable 10 yr commitment is the technology going to last??? : The little extra weight of the volvo sure feels nice when we are peeling ice , the cat we demoed had a road wing on it, it cut nice but was it because of the extra weight of the plow??? Has anyone been away from their m long enough that it didn't feel familiar anymore, as we have multiple operators that run grader but only a few times ayear ,are they going to be relearning again after a few months?? Other than the back end dimention of the volvo the operation seemed pretty standard, quick hydraulics(even @-35), good visibility(except rear), generally pretty heavy built. Any words of wisdom for me in my final hours????? Ps... if deere is more money why are people purchasing them ????? I've never run one myself and we won't see a demo anyone have a direct side by side with volvo and deere??? One last thing hilly, twisty curvy streets.......AWD a must?..never had before either???? thanx..........

[sdPete]

Only time cold is a steering issue is at startup. When the oil temp rises enough to trip the sensor it has never gone below that point while we were running. The machine is fully functional even with the "steering limited - warm steering oil" message, the alarm will sound if you try to run faster than 2nd gear. Usually I run the engine at around 1100 rpm for 10-15 minutes, then drive around the yard cycling the stick from one side to the other until the indicator light goes out, usually takes 1-2 minutes.

Will Cat commit to keeping them running? I would guess yes. From what I understand all the dealers have sent service techs to M grader school, Cat is not about to put up with those graders sitting around waiting for someone to figure out how to fix it. Ours has had no downtime due to mechanical problems, mostly normal maintenance, the not normal part is the service guy sitting in the cab with his computer hooked to the machine doing updates while talking on the cell phone.

[civil2006]

I just signed up to the forums yesterday and this is my first post.

We are actually in the same decision process as you are, however CAT has no models that fall close enough to the specifications required. (Too high or too low). Right now we are debating going with a Deere 770D/772D, Volvo G940/946 or a Komatsu GD655-3.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the Komatsus? I haven't seen much discussion about them on motor grader board.

Our current machines are: Champion 740 and Cat 140G.
The type of work we do consists of general gravel road grading during the summer months and winter road grading (forestry application) to clear snow and blade the ice (stinger system).

All comments appreciated.

[Cory76]

sdpete, whats the coldest temp you have ran your M in?

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums civil2006 ! :drinkup

[sdPete]

One morning it was -12F when I cranked up at 4am, the radio station kept reporting lower numbers they got to -22F before it started to go back up. Engine and trans work fine, no problem keeping cab warm and windows clear, steering works fairly well as it is used constantly, blade/wing/vplow operation sluggish. Hydraulic functions are OK until temp goes below zero. The brakes are hydraulic instead of air as on previous models, brakes seemed to be OK in the cold.

[Vahighwayman]

I think I would go back to the Deere 770CH. I can't speak about CAT cuz I never had the chance to operate one. The Deere has a much bigger set of balls when it came to heavy pushing verses the Volvo 720B. The Volvo is a nice machine if you do parking lots and driveways, but not a machine meant for heavy road work. In cold weather, it usually takes a man and a boy to steer the Volvo until the fluid in the hydraulic steering cylinders get hot, and don't even think about locking the differential in the Volvo while your grading, you have to stop then flip the switch, alot good that does when your tandems are in deep mud or snow..the Deere machine is shift on the fly..regardless on what machine you wind up getting..you make do with what you have.

[knutur 140G]

Hello I just signed up to the forums to day and this is my first post.
Sorry about my englis write.....

I´m working on140G from 2004. But now we are withing efter the neu 140M .
He will arive 7-14 of April to Iceland and In loking forvard to work on.
I will promtly post mor her wen I can tel something about 140M :)

last perviously month I have visit this webpage and I realy like.
Some helpful and som funn.. :)hold on a good job here guys....


greetings From Iceland

[roadrunner]

I think I would go back to the Deere 770CH. I can't speak about CAT cuz I never had the chance to operate one. The Deere has a much bigger set of balls when it came to heavy pushing verses the Volvo 720B. The Volvo is a nice machine if you do parking lots and driveways, but not a machine meant for heavy road work. In cold weather, it usually takes a man and a boy to steer the Volvo until the fluid in the hydraulic steering cylinders get hot, and don't even think about locking the differential in the Volvo while your grading, you have to stop then flip the switch, alot good that does when your tandems are in deep mud or snow..the Deere machine is shift on the fly..regardless on what machine you wind up getting..you make do with what you have.

I think you need to change your avatar to a Deere instead of a Volvo!!Tee Hee!!!:)

[roadrunner]

I just signed up to the forums yesterday and this is my first post.

We are actually in the same decision process as you are, however CAT has no models that fall close enough to the specifications required. (Too high or too low). Right now we are debating going with a Deere 770D/772D, Volvo G940/946 or a Komatsu GD655-3.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the Komatsus? I haven't seen much discussion about them on motor grader board.

Our current machines are: Champion 740 and Cat 140G.
The type of work we do consists of general gravel road grading during the summer months and winter road grading (forestry application) to clear snow and blade the ice (stinger system).

All comments appreciated.

Glad your here Civil2006;Try to get your dealers to set up a demo for Volvo and Deere.You will see the difference between them especially for doing snow and ice.Make sure the salesman brings out both comparable machines not like we had an AWD and a regular drive machine for a demo.

[civil2006]

Glad your here Civil2006;Try to get your dealers to set up a demo for Volvo and Deere.You will see the difference between them especially for doing snow and ice.Make sure the salesman brings out both comparable machines not like we had an AWD and a regular drive machine for a demo.

From your thoughts, what were the main differences between them?

I hope someone can discuss about the KOMATSU GD655-3 or the 675-3, I'd really like to get some thoughts.


Is the general consensus to go with AWD with new machines or it still remains application specific? In our case, we will not get higher rates even if we go with a AWD machine, so its a higher capital outlay for nothing in my mind.

[MKTEF]

I can't say so much about the Deere, cause they are not sold over here.

But the comments regarding the difflock on the Volvo is not true.:rolleyes:
The new models got a hydraulic lock that can be put on and off at any time.
Its just a hydraulic piston pressing on clutch discs inside the diff that makes the diff lock.
No problems with in and out coupling...(like on the old ones)

I haven't tested the M's yet, but the operators tell me that its been to compact and with to little power compared to the old modells.

Regarding awd i would advice u to test it...:)
U will get a bigger cut, higher speed and smother ride with awd.
And the force out of the awd today cant be compared to the old ones.
New wheel motors have been developed much compared to the old ones.(all comments based on old systems ain't true today)

I have no problem spinning with the front wheels if i make to big cuts.(or hooks into something)
And that was imposible with the old Champion.:(
(and with some other producers awd)

Our judgement is that the Volvo is one of the solid graders made for heavy construction grading, not just road maintenance.
Both regarding frame strength, liability, service and engine power.;)

But as many else here says, make a selection chart, and do some testing with the different producers, modells, gearboxes and other stuff important to your use.
Local service, parts and all that is also a very important issue.;)

[Grader4me]

Hello I just signed up to the forums to day and this is my first post.
Sorry about my englis write.....

Welcome to the forum knutur 140G ! Look forward to your posts :)



Originally Posted by civil2006
I just signed up to the forums yesterday and this is my first post.

Welcome civil2006! Look forward to your posts as well.:)

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums knutur 140G! :drinkup

[roadrunner]

From your thoughts, what were the main differences between them?

I hope someone can discuss about the KOMATSU GD655-3 or the 675-3, I'd really like to get some thoughts.


Is the general consensus to go with AWD with new machines or it still remains application specific? In our case, we will not get higher rates even if we go with a AWD machine, so its a higher capital outlay for nothing in my mind.

The 872d AWD Deere I demoed was an alright machine, they have made alot of nice changes especially to their cab.Auto trans.shifted nice but 8th gear is just for roading not plowing.AWD is great maybe for your application in the bush if you have alot of hills,and it also holds you better on the road and can make bigger cuts.Overall compared to Volvo G970 the Deere looks and is small in cylinders,metal,frame and cab.The Volvo 11 spd auto. is great,fuel save mode and running the engine @1500 rpm and lower is very quiet plus you can travel just about twice as fast blading gravel.Honestly I have proven this to others as well when doing roads leaving extra time for fishing!Volvo is definitely the better machine,I guarantee it will out perform the same size Cat(160).
Komatsu-nevr been around one and never heard of anyone around here with one as well.I think it is fairly new to the grader seen so I will leave it at that if you know what I mean!

[Grader4me]

The Volvo 11 spd auto. is great,fuel save mode and running the engine @1500 rpm and lower is very quiet plus you can travel just about twice as fast blading gravel.Honestly I have proven this to others as well when doing roads leaving extra time for fishing!


Okay I have a question..When you're talking about blading gravel are you talking about grading a road or do you mean leveling gravel? Either way I just can't see by going twice as fast as normal will give you a good smooth job. For every little bounce of the grader you are creating washboards. Leveling gravel excessive speed makes the machine harder to control as the grader will rock side to side and you end up with a mess.

Regardless of the grader, like the others, you would have to prove it to me. Please don't take offence but it's just that I've been doing this kind of work all my life and speed is not the answer for grading/leveling. :IMO

[roadrunner]

Okay I have a question..When you're talking about blading gravel are you talking about grading a road or do you mean leveling gravel? Either way I just can't see by going twice as fast as normal will give you a good smooth job. For every little bounce of the grader you are creating washboards. Leveling gravel excessive speed makes the machine harder to control as the grader will rock side to side and you end up with a mess.

Regardless of the grader, like the others, you would have to prove it to me. Please don't take offence but it's just that I've been doing this kind of work all my life and speed is not the answer for grading/leveling. :IMO

I am talking about blading roadtop,the machince was a G970 and had the taller rubber 20.5x25.Usually we run 17.5x25 snoplus,we also have aG740B and a G740A.The 740B can go a gear faster than the A as we always ran in 4th gear.I dont remember the exactgear in the970 (7 or 8th?) but I was going 10-11mph.I have absolutely no reason to B.S. anyone on this topic about grader bounce and tire pressures because I'm pretty sure everybody knows about bounce.when I ran the 970 I was going 6 mph and tried up shifting to see where I could still control the machine, just like the salesman told me to do because I also thought he was nuts about being able go that fast!You sure had to be on the ball with quick slight adjustments but I did not have any ripple,washboard, or duck-walking!
Please don't worry about offending me either, I have been up and down the road quite a bit as well!:)
Isn't this site (HEF) the best place to discuss topics or what?:D:D:notworthy:notworthy:drinkup:drinkup

[Grader4me]

One thing that can be said about you roadrunner, is that you have a great attitude :) Thanks for your reply..maybe with this new fangled equipment you can go a little faster...wait... am I admitting that I might be wrong?? :eek: Naw...still don't believe it...:D

[MKTEF]

Both of you ought to test the constantpressure system we got one day.:D:D
I haven't seen one new M sold this far without it.

[roadrunner]

One thing that can be said about you roadrunner, is that you have a great attitude :) Thanks for your reply..maybe with this new fangled equipment you can go a little faster...wait... am I admitting that I might be wrong?? :eek: Naw...still don't believe it...:D

Please don't make me beg you to try the new Volvo's out.I'm sure your old Cat will take you back if you so wish to return to her!Just try one out if you can, there must be one in your area isn't there?
It's O.K. I will get you switched over yet!!:D

[roadrunner]

Both of you ought to test the constantpressure system we got one day.:D:D
I haven't seen one new M sold this far without it.

I am a little slow on what you are talking about MKTEF.Tell me more about this constant pressure system.

[roadrunner]

sorry about the spelling boys...

I still can't post my pics guys the files are to big..sorry gents

one month before we take delivery:D :D :D :D

Cam; Did you get your new 140M yet?:beatsme

[MKTEF]

Check this thread:
http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=3407

You can see the controls inside the cabin on the right handle above the joystick on the M-modells.
Post #17, here:
http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=69612#post69612

And it looks like the box under the mainframe in post #16, at same thread is the controll box for the system.

Same place on this 140M:
http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=5429
Post #2.

[bellabok]

Hi, The city that I work for is looking at purchasing a new grader this winter, and I would like to get some pro's, con's and general opinions on the different brands so we can make an informed decision with info from the guys running these machines, not just rehearsed speaches from salesman! We have had a Cat 140G Since 91 and it has been good to use, despite its early abused life from a very ramey operator! So I'm a little partial to the Cat but I've heard good things about the Volvo's also, any info would be appreciated.

This should start a few arguments:)

Hi!
I am from a from a rural area, Limpopo, South Africa and due to the distance from from the servicing dealers ect. the motor graders here hardly have any servicing or maintenace.

Usally all the attention they get is diesel & oil added. The operators are all self taught, this fact in it self puts the machines through the most difficult operating manoeuvres also the conditions the machines work in is extremly hot, dusty and generally not the easiest conditions to work in.

In all the time I have been living here (30yrs.) I have only seen CAT graders and in the early years Champion.

I have only respect for these CAT graders and they just keep on going.
Regards.

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums bellabok! :drinkup

[WILDCAT]

I have looked at the three Graders. The build quality of the Deere and Volvo is not as good as the Caterpillar M, plus the Cat re-sale is higher and parts backup is better than the Deere and the Volvo.
I must say I do like the engine and transmission in the volvo. The transmission is smooth and volvo build a very good engine.
A local operator with a Deere had issues with hydraulics and the machine was recalled for an engine lubrication up-date. (that took 2 weeks - more of a dealer problem at the time I would say)
what I have seen of Caterpillar Australia is that they are putting a lot of effort into making sure that the M series is not a failure.
I hope this helps you Cory76.

[roadrunner]

I have looked at the three Graders. The build quality of the Deere and Volvo is not as good as the Caterpillar M, plus the Cat re-sale is higher and parts backup is better than the Deere and the Volvo.
I must say I do like the engine and transmission in the volvo. The transmission is smooth and volvo build a very good engine.
A local operator with a Deere had issues with hydraulics and the machine was recalled for an engine lubrication up-date. (that took 2 weeks - more of a dealer problem at the time I would say)
what I have seen of Caterpillar Australia is that they are putting a lot of effort into making sure that the M series is not a failure.
I hope this helps you Cory76.

Hi WILDCAT what specifically did you not like about the Deere and VOlvo build quality compared to the M?

[Cory76]

Thanks for all the advise guys, we ordered the CAt M!!:cool:

[roadrunner]

What is your delivery date?

[WILDCAT]

Hi roadrunner,
You wanted to know what I specifically did not like about the Deere and the Volvo. My experience with a 770 CH, this machine had low hours on it, the build quality of every moving part in the front end required it to have a grease nipple on every king pin pivot axle and steering knuckle. Routine greasing on the front end still made it have unacceptable wear for the hours, I also found that with the ripper assembly and the articulation joints as well.
I also found the problems that we experienced with the shifting mechanism was the following: under the gear stick there were 2 large plastic plates. Inside these 2 large plastic plates was micro switches, it would only take 1 of these switches to fail and we found that we had no forward or reverse gears. They may have rectified this in later models, but an operator of a D model told me he was experiencing shift problems and I assume it was the same.
In regards to the Volvo, I found their engine and transmission combination to be quite brilliant. However the circle drive on this machine used 2 pinion gears on a crank using 2 slave hydraulic cylinders, I found with working crushed rock in tight areas, when moving the blade under load, the rams would lock into a neutral position and I felt that the rams were working against each other. Also their blade slide behind the mold board would suffer from wear more quickly than a Cat and would need more maintenance. I did have a Volvo salesman tell me these particular issues that I voiced, were being rectified in later models. Also I felt that the ripper assembly which was well tucked away behind the machine would not allow you sufficient vision on scarifier depth.
The M series grader has intrigued me for many years. The first pictures of the M series, I saw on machinery forum (thankyou guys). I found with the M series grader that the cab was very quiet. The field of vision on the work area of the mold board is excellent. The vision of the front tyres I found to be poor and the vision out the back of the machine when reversing I found to be poor as well. Please remember I work on pavements and the last thing I want to ever do is run over one of my labourers or grade checkers. To prevent accidents and injury I need excellent vision. Build quality of the M series: in regards to the 140M, that runs a C7 engine, to do the valve lash is not as difficult as the H series 2 with the C9. Service points on the M series are accessable for draining of engine hydraulics etc. In regards to the circle assembly and blade slide area, it is the best system I have seen yet, in regards to adjustment of the circle & blade slides.
My opinion is that whichever grader that you may choose Cat, Volvo or Deere it is vital that dealer support and parts backup must be there.

Regards WILDCAT.
Keep it under the red and the tollerances tight!

[Cory76]

Delivery is mid june,or sooner they say. Dealer support and parts did play a big role in our decision, as Cat is the only dealer we have in town.

[Tigerotor77W]

Thanks for all the advise guys, we ordered the CAt M!!:cool:

Congrats! Pics when she arrives. :)

[stretch]

Enjoy the M, which model was it again? And yes, pics please when you get it!

Haven't been lucky enough to see one here in Connecticut yet, most of the guys seem to prefer Deeres but there are a few Cats here and there.

[Cory76]

140M, I'll post pics as soon as we get it.

[roadrunner]

Wildcat I think the problem you had with the circle turn locking up was due to being out of time (maybe from hitting a rock --This has happened to me as well .)Or we had another Volvo and found that the circle pinion was out a cog right from the factory.It took some time to figure out but proved to be the answer in the end.
I really have nothing good to say about Cat's circle and brass slides because the circle does not have enough power to push yourself out if you get stuck or other applictions needed.I know it is supposed to "trip" if you hit something like a rock but the whole circle just seems to jiggle and wiggle all the time.I asked a mechanic to tighten my circle to see if ther was something wrong but he said it is set tight.The brass shims of CAT simply just suck compared to Volvo "duramide" slides because the brass can be worn out hitting the steel and still look as if they were new yet.(you cannot not shim up the brass either)Where Volvo you can and always have a tight moldboard--I really hate all the so called "slop" of CAT's circle and moldboard!
Or maybe it is just me thinking this way?
Let me know what you think!

[Cory76]

The M's use oil impregnated slides on the blade and the circle. They also have a very nice system for changing the circle wear pads through the top(why didn't they do that a long time ago??) and the blade slides are adjustable to keep them tight.(very neat!)

I will say though the Volvo's circle was faster and has more power behind it.

[WILDCAT]

Hi roadrunner,
In regards to the circle assembly on a Volvo (from the factory), I do agree with that, the same thought crossed my mind. I haven't had the experience of bogging different types of gradeers, so I can't comment on the hydraulic power of cicle drives. Even though I feel that Cat's are ahead with design, I feel that Volvo are a very very close 2nd. However this is only my opinion and I don't know enough about the M series to have an informed opinion. The build quality seems to be there. The M series has only been in Australia for a few months. This is why I am so keen to find out more information from America. My local dealer wants me to trade up to a 140M series. Time will tell. I feel I will hold off until the series 2 comes available.

Regards
WILDCAT
Keep it under the red and the tolerances tight!

[Bellboy]

Dumela mense! Went to the royal agricultural Show, and saw both the Bell (Deere) 770D and Volvo G940. Was rather impressed with the volvo, and a friend of mine bought a Volvo as his first machine when he started a few years ago. I will get back to julle tomorrow about the Bell (Deere)

[Bellboy]

Just seeing how you chaps talk about the M series, I think S.A wil only be getting it in early 2009, seeing as Africa just got the steering wheel. On a serious note, what are joysticks on a grader like?

[MKTEF]

Welcome to the forum Bellboy:D

Post some pics, and everybody will be very happy.

Joysticks is a total new way of operating the grader.:)
A easier and more relaxed way to operate it.
Your arms is supported and the operating is done with less force and with less muscle grups than before.
And gives the operator a bether view out of the machine.:)
And if u have time in a excavator u will pick up the pattern and system very quick.
But u still need some seat time, before the right handmovements come automaticly.

On our system u got everything at hand in the sticks, don't need too stretch out and grab anything.
And i would say a must to get todays operators to stay in the machines for a lifetime.;)

And maybee the right machine for todays nintendo youngsters...
I've posted some videos at youtube, search for mktef.

[Bellboy]

Thanks for that. im not sure if the M will hold up to this continent. i think that there are just too many things to do on a grader that joysticks might become confusing:confused:. Sexy though:cool2

What does the pricetag look like???

[MKTEF]

Price?

I know a Volvo with svab joystick system is competable to the M's.:)
Cat is high above all the rest here in Norway.:cool:

I could give u a estimate on price, but that would be far of what u will pay for it.:rolleyes:
Around here we buy the graders with all bells and whistles that is available on the graders.(plus some u dont get)
A complete 976 is apr 650'-700' $ here.
I checked Volvo.com and priced one on the US website, came out around 630'. Thats 3-4 months ago, i beliewe the price to us has fallen after that.
1$ has gone down from 7,5 to 5 kr...

And dont forget, the 976 is comparable to the 14M...
Same blade and engine power...:cool:

I beliewe the difference is caused by the auto greasing system, backup camera, joysticks and some local specialitys, like 220V heaters..:)

Expensive yeah...but our operators demand all that stuff.
And without a good operator, you got problems.
Get a good operator, then by a machine for him.:D

[roadrunner]

Expensive yeah...but our operators demand all that stuff.
And without a good operator, you got problems.
Get a good operator, then by a machine for him.
_
That is exactly what I keep telling my employer also!Especially at wage review time!!!!! :D

HA HA...._________________

[Bellboy]

Well that all depends on if you can find a good operator. The best chaps (especially on the graders) are getting old, and aren't that willing to spend resting time on (A) learning a new thing and (B) teaching the youngsters the tricks on the older graders. The Bell has got very smooth controls, and is very comfortable, especially for a guy and other guys my size. I am not especially tall, lets just say.:)

Graders here cost between R1.8 and 2.4 mil for a 14-15 ton grader.

[MKTEF]

The best operators here is also getting old.:cool:

But we don't got all those long straight forward roads and huge open space areas as u got.
Grader operating here is constantly working your grader, as roads go in all directions all the time.
Going back and forward all the time....:(

Many operators got shoulderproblems because of the old style handles in the graders.
So theese guy's are the driving force of the joysticks.

Thats the reason for the demand for joysticks.
Vammas/Vekmas has had them for years now.:rolleyes:
Cat operators has demanded them for some years now, i even know about a H-modell with joysticks.:cool:

Prototypes of the M has been tested and a number of operators here has been involved in the design of the new M.
Including free trips over to the US...

Vages here is high and a so big part of the operating cost, that u can afford to by all the extra stuff.
And a grader is supposed to last for 10-15 years so its stupid not to by the latest and most advanced stuff to it.
Grease systems will pay it self off after som years.(its cheap compared to pay the high vages of the operator to go around grease it)

Normaly it is sold 12-17 graders pr year in Norway.
Cat has sold more than 30 M's in nearly half a year.:eek:
Customers has been mad about the delay in delivery, but are getting their machines now.
And all of those will be operated by old experienceed guys.:)

Strange thing is, i don't see any used graders for sale by Cat.....

Climate has changed, those truck blades is not a good solution, so many contractors are going back to graders for wintermaintenance.
Public has been mad over all the newspapers, and DOT has been in big trouble.
DOT didn't put strict enough demands in the wintermaintenance contracts when they started privatising 4-5 years ago.
We had one of the main highway roads closed for a couple of weeks two years ago...THAT is not acceptable. That road has a demand for black asphalt all year around.
A lot of meetings where hold, and this year they where better prepared.
That case was a turningpoint for the DOT...to say least...

We have even got some questions from contractors who wanted us(Army) to come help them out of problems, because there isn't any graders available in the marked.
We did on one ocation, but then lots of questions was rised as we then competed with the private firms....

A very difficult and spesial picture/marked as u can understand.....:)

And who wants to be a grader operator theese days?????
Not so many i can tell u.....
$$$$ and new toys for the good operators....:D

[Grader4me]

And who wants to be a grader operator theese days?????
Not so many i can tell u.....
$$$$ and new toys for the good operators....:D

How long will it take for me to learn your language? Maybe I could come over and at least "boil the billy" :)

[MKTEF]

Take a trip for a week or two and come see the country.
Everybody here around understands english, so u will be understood before u learn Norwegian.

Some local communitys go to Europe and invites people to come live here.
They run programs to get more people up here. Including getting them jobs, language courses, kindergarten, yup they help u.
Our community has "imported" a number of Dutch and Belgian citizens.
And if your wife works in health care u both will be very apreciated.

But theese programs are mostly in communtys where people move out.
U Canadians would mostly have no problem with that, i hear u are used to smal communitys....

[MKTEF]

I did som checks around working/living over here:

The local community has paid a firm to get people from Belgium and Netherlands to move over here.
It's easy for them, because they come from EU and the culture, people and language is not that different from ours.

Information on english is found here:
http://www.rena.no/en/ This is tourist info about my community.
http://www.engerdal.info/Default.asp?WCI=DisplayGroup&WCE=565&DGI=565
Next from a neighbour community.

And here is a lot of info:
http://www.velkommenhit.no/rauma/enindex.html
This one is from another community, but tells u a lot in english on things to do if u move over here.
And answers some of the questions any might have.

[Grader4me]

Very interesting..thanks for the links

[pabear52]

Hi, Does anybody on the this thread know the weight of John Deere 872G???
Noises are I may have one to run on a job I'm if I can pass a pre start medical on Friday. Stripping topsoil, miles of it and backfill of trench.
It has rear rippers and factory 16' blade.

I did see one with a job I was on on 772G last year but never thought of details but did think at the time it would be scratching to beat a Cat 14H for size and grunt.

It had a 16' blade and the operator cursed the machine which I thought wasn't being very fair, from the time I started to when I finished. But then again he wasn't much of a thing either! A final trim guru, snappy, snarly but when he tuned up the big bird on the roller he made the biggest mistake of his life $#@*&?!!! LOL.

Oh boy. She wasn't gunna take any of his style thats for sure!

It's all very well putting extra length on your blade but if you havn't got weight to push weight, it sometimes doesnt work other than giving you plenty of blade angle which is good too. .Thats what I like about 16G, one hell of a machine!

All the best and be safe boys.

[Cory76]

Well June has come and gone (along with july and august!!) and still no sign of our new M! Every week a different excuse, I hope we get it before the snow starts flying.

[harleyman1]

This is my first post.

We have several of the M's working in our area. The guys running them really seem to like them. There have been a few bugs to work out of them but overall they have been very reliable. Delivery seems to be very good also. Our local dealer has machines sitting on their yard.

Most of my experience has been on the John Deere machines. The one thing that I noticed is that the Deere really burns a lot more fuel. When using an all wheel drive machine burns almost twice as much fuel!

After talking to operators of both machines, it sounds like the Cat machine is the machine to go with. They like the comfort, visibility, and fuel consumption. When you put all of that together along with the higher trade-in values, the higher price is justified.

[ovrszd]

Most of my experience has been on the John Deere machines. The one thing that I noticed is that the Deere really burns a lot more fuel.

When maintaining gravel roads with our 770D Deere I can get down to 6 GPH by running 1500 rpm in 5th gear vs 8 GPH running wide open in 4th gear.

My buddy runs a 140M and says he is getting 3.5-4 GPH maintaining gravel roads. I didn't ask but I'm pretty sure he's running wide open in 4th.

So the fuel difference is definitely a consideration at today's prices!!!

[Cory76]

The M was actually about 8000 cheaper than the deere when we tendered!
Were supposed to take delivery of our machine tommorow:)

[harleyman1]

Congratulations Cory76!! I think that you will be extremely happy with your new machine.

I am surprised to see the Deere burn that much fuel. If the difference is 2 gallons per hour at $4.00 per gallon, that would be $40,000 worth of fuel in a 5,000 hour cycle (which is pretty low usage). That is another line item in the budget!:Pointhead

[ovrszd]

I am surprised to see the Deere burn that much fuel. If the difference is 2 gallons per hour at $4.00 per gallon, that would be $40,000 worth of fuel in a 5,000 hour cycle (which is pretty low usage). That is another line item in the budget!:Pointhead

Yep, I totally agree. That's why I started running lower rpms when I can to squeeze more out of each gallon of fuel.

But then, I think as operators we should always be thinking about that, regardless of our GPH average or brand of machine. So if the M will do 4 GPH running wide open, will it do even better running at a lower rpm??

I did a cost study for my township a couple years ago to determine cost per hour on the tach. It was an awakening for my board members. I don't think they had thought about that. As a tax supported entity we can't control our income but we can surely control our expenditures. So I rotate tires, flip cutting edges, regularly lube, regularly clean air filter, run at lower rpms and anything else I can think of to minimize operational costs.

We've always ran Deere machines. It would be a big expenditure to switch to Cat. But if operational costs continue to rise and continue to be largely different with Deere being less efficient at some point it would be cost effective to spend the extra money and switch brands. The payback might take a couple trades but long term it would be worth it.

I really like Deere machines. But my feelings aren't important here. What's important is efficient spending of tax dollars.

[Cory76]

We didn't get the machine today as they are trying to work out a few bugs(already!!):mad:. The AWD will not engage and they forgot to put the blade cusion accumulators on. Also the front fenders hit the midmount scarifier if its down at all.
Hopfully tommorow

[ovrszd]

Cory, I understand your frustration. We ordered our machine in summer and it didn't arrive until mid December. We were at the beginning of what turned out to be the most snow winter we had in twenty years. Sucks changing machines in snow season. Especially the changes that you are going to go thru learning to run the new technology. And for you "Northern" guys snow season is just around the corner!!!! :eek:

[MKTEF]

Not to steal the thread here, but:
Volvo anounced a couple of days ago to move its grader production to the US.
So soon the Volvo graders will be made in the USA.
Here is the press release:
http://www.volvo.com/constructionequipment/na/en-us/newsmedia/pressreleases/NewsItem.htm?channelId=3747&ItemID=49334&sl=en-gb

[hitch]

140M, I'll post pics as soon as we get it.

I have some pics about CAT 140M, so post them to share with you guys.

[harleyman1]

Cory76 did you ever get your new machine? I am just curious, we haven't heard from you in a while.

[Cory76]

The answer is yes we had it, but we sent it back. Here's the list of problems-

-Blade cusion was not installed
-Awd was not working (improper hose routing-to tight-rubbing)
-Scratches on top cover
-Front Fenders were bent as they hit the mid mount scarifier
-Snow Gate brackets look like a 5 year old welded them on
-Snow gate hoses were monuted to circle so every time you move the circle your twisting and rubbing those hoses.
-Scarifier has to be lowered in order to lower your moleboard
-Forgot to put front tow hook on
-Bad hyd leak at rear of machine

But other that that its good:Banghead
The exited feeling of getting a new machine, has turned into a disapointed feeling.
I feel like we may of made the wrong choice:beatsme Oh well, to late now, hopfully things get better and this isn't a sign of things to come.

[Diagonal Brace]

Hey Cory did you ever get your grader? Just wondering what has happened after a very bad initial experience.

[Cory76]

Yes we finally got it back 2 weeks ago. Only put about 30hrs on it so far but all is good. Really like the controlls. It seems like your not doing enough,just sitting there moving your hands! After getting used to one of these I think it would be very hard to get back in a conventional grader. We took our 140g to the local cat dealer as they took it on trade, and boy did it feel like a dinasour after running the M. The cab is increadibly quite, you really have to listen to see if the machine starts and is running, if you have the doors shut.

I see your from Winnipeg, thats where all the shady work was done on our machine ;)

[ovrszd]

Really like the controlls. It seems like your not doing enough,just sitting there moving your hands! After getting used to one of these I think it would be very hard to get back in a conventional grader. We took our 140g to the local cat dealer as they took it on trade, and boy did it feel like a dinasour after running the M. The cab is increadibly quite, you really have to listen to see if the machine starts and is running, if you have the doors shut.

That's just how I felt in my short hour of running an M. You really gotta develop a "feel it in your butt" sense about what's going on as far as the engine is concerned. None of these things are bad, just will take some adjustment. And positively would make it hard to switch back and forth between an H and a M. :)