Dam building

[Z24O]

any of you guys used a trackloader to dig a dam?
how do they compare work wise to an excavator or dozer?
is there much disadvantage to not being able to angle the blade L/R?

i am trying to work out whether i would be better(versatility wise) with an 8t excavator a bulldozer or a trackloader
if i had the luxury of 2 of these machines,what would you pick and why?

jobs to do
clear out an existing dam
build a bigger dam
cut a road
clear a house pad
put in spoon drains
push over trees up to 18" diameter
clear scrub,mainly head high bushes
push trees,scrub into windrows

terrain
sloping,worst being 40 degrees incline/decline:eek:
clay...rock hard-slushy depending on season
grassy paddocks-sparse trees-thick head high shrubbery

last consideration is that i may need to pick up a bit of local work(only if i need to eat:rolleyes: ) so versatility and transport of the machine/s may come into my decision

thanks fellas

[fireman050]

all i have used is my 850g dozer and sk150 excavator i wouldnt mind using a track loader but there are not many around here

[Z24O]

some pics of the terrain
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/Z24O/Tasmaniajune07holiday067.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/Z24O/Tasmaniajune07holiday072.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/Z24O/Tasmaniajune07holiday075.jpg

[Dozerboy]

Trackloader would be my choice and I don't see anything that looks like a 40* slopes. That is so steep ya can't hardly walk up it.

[surfer-joe]

I think an excavator might be a good choice for you. Crawler loaders work OK for loading out stuff, and you can knock down trees and brush with them, but for digging and trenching, the excavator will beat the loader 6 ways from Sunday. I did some dam work in Colorado many years ago with a Cat 955 and it was slow going. The material behind the dam (upstream) was very soft, almost a peat. I spent a lot of time just trying to keep from being stuck and as a result, production was not good.

So my choice would be the excavator and a dozer.

[Z24O]

thanks fellas
maybe i am just unfit but it nearly killed me walking up them there hills,had to stop every 10 steps for air:eek:
the trackloader is the cheapest option and with a 4in1 bucket is the best for removing this type of weed bush infesting the block....yellow stuff in pics.....it takes 90% of the roots as well which helps avoid reinfestation
with an excavator i would need a grab/thumb etc which will cost me the same as a trackloader over here

[Z24O]

Trackloader would be my choice and I don't see anything that looks like a 40* slopes. That is so steep ya can't hardly walk up it.

do you reckon a backhoe would work those slopes???

[Dozerboy]

Ya I would think so, but it wouldn't be my choice would have to be a 4X4.


With an excavator your going to have to have something for compaction, building pads/roads are a bit more work to Finish Grade, and a thumb wouldn't be a must. Traveling isn't a strong point of a hoe so while brushing you would have to be able to have several smaller piles. The only thing that would be hard to do with a trackloader would be putting in the drains and getting stuck they normally don't do well in soft ground.

[Rusted]

Trackloader gets my vote as the all-round most suitable machine for the work you've described.

[Monte1255]

I don't know how it is there where you are, but here it is almost common wisdom to call in a pulpwooc company for the trees that are saleable, heck take the money they pay you for the wood and put it on a down payment for the trackloader of your dreams!
Just a thought I guess...not only will you not have so much brush to contend with you get paid too!!!

[JimInOz]

You'll build a good dam with a Drott.My friend builds them all the time.We used to use two 850 Case to dig,spread & compact.It will handle all those other jobs too.Not a lot of Drotts in WA,so it might be hard to find one.Ensure you get 4:1 bucket & rippers.
In a perfect world,a Drott/Excavator combo would be great.
Are you near Perth,or down South??I have a mate in outer Perth that can help find what you need.

Jim

[Z24O]

You'll build a good dam with a Drott.My friend builds them all the time.We used to use two 850 Case to dig,spread & compact.It will handle all those other jobs too.Not a lot of Drotts in WA,so it might be hard to find one.Ensure you get 4:1 bucket & rippers.
In a perfect world,a Drott/Excavator combo would be great.
Are you near Perth,or down South??I have a mate in outer Perth that can help find what you need.

Jim

hi jim,
i am in north perth but my block is in tassie......even harder to find good gear on an island:Banghead

[therealjohnboy]

Pick up a copy of earthmovers and excavators there is tons of option in VIC, SA and NSW cheap freight to tassie is the issue. I work similar and steeper terrain in SA and just sold my 931C Drott. So cant help you there, sorry but i would suggest a dozer and an 8 ton exc. Dozer is more stable, fast for cutting roads in steep terrain, blade off the scrub sure you'll miss afew roots but kill regrowth with spray far more efficient. A drott is designed for digging and loading and would be slow in the application you have suggested. but if you have loads of time and money buy them all and have some fun

[therealjohnboy]

backhoe would be suicide

[JimInOz]

There's an importer down South in Tassie that sells used Jap gear....Ginseng Dragon is the business,I think.
He sells excavators,dozers,trucks,etc.

Good luck with the venture.

Jim

[stock]

The yellow stuff we call furze up here ,and I also see you have a fine crop of rushes as well, anyway to business 13ton excavator would be my machine of choice:beatsme:beatsme

[joe from ne]

I kind of did the same thing you are. I started with a trackloader and it worked for everything because it had to. After that I bought a dozer and was a little dissapointed in what I could do with it. But I have all the equipment now and can tell you you will do a better job on your ponds with a Excavator and dozer. Also with trees we can push down with excavator faster than the dozer can push away. You do need a good friend with a big machine to pull your trackloader out on a regular basis. And the trackloader is much slower.

[Z24O]

what about a trackloader with an additional dozer blade fitting to replace the bucket?
i already purchased a Sumitomo 7t excavator,so the collection has begun

[joe from ne]

I tried that dozer blade on the loader trick myself and with the street tracks on the loader it doesn't work real well. You tend to not have enough traction with teh wider blade. Probably a 4in1 bucket would work about as well or better. Don't get me wrong on this you can do it with a trackloader just not as easy or fast. It's hard to move as much dirt as you really should with a trackloader alone. If you have a excavator allready though you could move the dirt around with the trackloader pretty good.

[JimInOz]

Depending on how many operators & pushing distances ....go for at least a 10 ton drott.Even a 7 ton excavator will keep that Drott busy,in good digging.
Maybe you don't need another machine anyway.

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Z240.
It takes a VERY good operator to put in a dam with an excavator. Almost every excavator operator that I have ever seen seems to catch the same 'disease' when faced with 'BUILDING' a dam. They just want to dig a hole and make a bank. They seem to give NO thought at all to over-excavating the topsoil and claying up the over-excavation to prevent the dam leaking out through the topsoil layer when it fills. Just about every dam I have ever had to repair has been put in with an excavator and has suffered from this problem.

Another VERY common problem with dams dug by excavators is that the banks are way too steep for stock to be able access the water safely, especially if they are in a weakened condition due to drought, which is when dams really come into their own.

Excavator operators make steep banks for 2 main reasons that THEY are aware of:

1. 'Cos they can.

2. It means that they have to move the material less distance to dispose of it.

There is a third reason which maybe 1 in 100 excavator operators would think of:

3. Ignorance - they don't stop to think about the most common reason for building a dam in the first place, to provide water for livestock - which have to be able to traverse the banks, even in a weakened condition, to be able to access the water. Anything steeper than 1-in-3 is a bad joke if you want to be able water weak stock at that dam.

Now I can already see mucho smoke coming from many pairs of excavator operator ears. Too bad. This has been my experience of excavator operators sinking/building dams and I'm telling like I have seen it.

It IS possible to dig/build a GOOD dam with an excavator but there is a LOT more to it than simply digging a hole and making a bank. You can find some information about one way of doing it here:

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=47992&highlight=sinking#post47992

The information in the above post is aimed at those using a dozer or a loader, either tracked or wheeled, or even a scraper, to do the job but the same basic principles apply to using an excavator. The biggest differences are in the amount of track-rolling you need to do with an excavator over and above the actual work of moving the material and the number of times that you need to move the material to get it to its final resting place.

When sinking/building a dam with any machine that carries or pushes material to move it, you are going to be travelling over the material that you have already placed to get the new material to where it needs to go, thus rolling and compacting it in the process. With an excavator, there is no rolling/compacting involved in moving the material so that has to be done over and above the work of moving the material.

This is the direct responsibility of the operator but should also be kept a close watch on by the client/land owner if he/she is a different person from the operator.

As for the number of times that the material has to be handled by an excavator to get it to its final destination, that is pretty much directly related to the size of the excavator and the size of the dam. The planning and efficiency of the operator can also play a part here.

Given my choice, I'd take a reasonable dozer with a ripper and tilt cylinder first, followed by a track loader with 4-in-1 and ripper, a 4wd loader with the same gear, an elevating scraper (They can be murder - or suicide - to clean up with if you make the banks too steep.) with an excavator coming in a long last.

Just my 0.02.