Buying a Backhoe

[58jeff]

Has anyone compiled a list of things to check on when buying a backhoe
I am looking into buying a 580 Case or a 310 JD for farm / light construction ( 1 basement / some footers ) use & I am bewildered by all the choices , letters , models
A gearhead by choice I don't want to buy somthing that has a built in problem
I was thinking about a 580 E with cab 4in 1 bkt (4wd too but I am not holding my breath )
Thanks for any help
JJ
P.S. nice forum
very informative

[Cat420]

http://www.gnb.ca/0062/regl/82-113ii.htm (Equipment Production Dates)

This link brings you to a page with a ton of information regarding equipment production dates as well as engine models, hp, and other things. It is handy for deciphering many number and letter combinations for equipment.

As far as what to look for, this is all I know, exhaust should be white or similar light color on a diesel, hydraulic cylinders should be clean (no dirt sticking to leaking fluid), chrome on the cylinder rams should not be damaged, test drive to see if there is play in the steering or strange noises, or any delay in engagement in the transmission, speed of the hydraulics, amount of play in backhoe and extendahoe. You can tell a lot about how the machine was run by general appearance, it is hard to hide abuse. If it is freshly painted, look twice as hard for anything they are trying to hide. I personally love the 4n1 bucket and extendahoe and 4x4 is always nice too. Hope this helps a little.

[badranman]

Cat420
The link doesn't seem to work for me?!:(

[Steve Frazier]

When I was shopping for a used TLB years ago, I took a used equipment salesman with me to look at machines. In addition to what Cat has listed, my salesman friend had me run the machine at idle and try to lift it with the backhoe boom. If it wouldn't lift the machine, this indicated a worn pump.

[Cat420]

Production Dates (http://www.gnb.ca/0062/regl/82-113ii.htm)

It should work now. The page takes a bit to load, but it is worth the wait. I find it works best if you use "ctrl f" to search the page. It's not an all inclusive list, but I have used it many times.

[58jeff]

Thanks this will help a lot I really am a gearhead so mechanical things are fun for me but I hate those steep & $$$ learning curves
JJ

[cat320]

I have also learned that if you see an old machine and it has been painted real nice even the engine stay away from it.Alway better to see the machine in all it's glory so to speak to see any potential problems leaks cracks etc .that paint can easily hide. I would also get into at least a K for more power the E really good in it's day but the super K will have alittle more power .

[58jeff]

I am going to try to look at a 580SE early next week that is in my price range no 4wd but has a cab / 4 in 1 bkt , two things on my list
My neighbor can move it for me if it weighs less than 12,000
This would keep the price down 1500 if he can move it for me though I am sure it will cost me a few hours of work for him ( I'd do it anyway )
THX
JJ

[IC1]

A 580 weighs between 14500-16000 lbs depending on options. I have a 99 580 4x4 with the 4 in 1 and absolutely love it.

[58jeff]

Thank you
That makes it easier just more $$$ my neighbor can only move up to 12,500 so that leaves him out
A Friend of mine has a 570XT with a cannon box scraper 4x4 that he loves & when we visit him I always end up on it digging & moving dirt having a blast - good fun if you don't do it for a living
JJ

[Bob Horrell]

Even good fun when you do it for a living. I always say I get paid to play in the dirt. It doesn't get any better than that. The little kid in me has a ball every day.

[Dwan Hall]

Sonething to concider, I think a 4X4 is the best option out there and if it costs a bit more it is well worth it.

[cat320]

That is true 4x4 is a great option and also the extendahoe is to My old machine did not have either one and I no not know how i did with out the 2 options .

[58jeff]

Yeah I would love 4wd but $$ is the limiting factor the 4 in 1 bkt is real useful for me & can fit in with the $$ factor but the 4x4 bumps the price out of my range, with the clay we have around here I sure could use it add a little bit of water & it is the slickest stuff known to man . When it is wet I find things to do on foot ( Hunting season ) & don't take the tractors out
Extendahoe I really won't need ( I hope ) I only plan on digging one basement
JJ

[PAYTON]

4wd is nice but not necessary any good operator can get a back ho out with out 4wd first time on a back ho i was probally 9-10 i burried it. dad chewed my ass out. gramps was chewing even harder then dad was. but it was a good thing. dad told me i could just leave it there and no one else was gonna get it out so i had to do it my self took me a good 4-5 hours and dad sitting there yelling the entire time but once i learned i could walk the ho around using the bucket ive never been stuck since. hell i can rember a few years ago 98-99 i think brand new back ho dropped off to job site. 45 mins later the tranny went out. i dug for 6 hours before another back ho was brought out. only moving my self with the rear bucket. a ext ho is the best option ever for a back ho. now if your not looking at doing alot of actual digging.. more use as a front end loader then the ext ho isnt of much use to you. the 4wd would be a great option espically if your in some slick snotty clay or mud where it is possibly to get your self unstuck with the back boom. but not feasible. you really need to think bout what the main use of this machine is gonna be loader used more for loading material - shuttling material around or digging. if digging is gonna be the main use then get the ext ho forget the 4wd. if its more loader then digging forget the ext ho and look for a 4wd unit. in the long run you will appericate it more.

i hope i didnt come off as contradicting
but some times you have to be depending on use of machine. as far as type of machine case is probally gonna be the cheapest while i peronsally would run from a 310 deere. there newer machines are better but mid 90s late 90 i didnt care for.cat is a great machine. its all about price range. possibly look for a older machine with 4wd just look it over good.

best of luck
payton

[cat320]

Your right you don't need either option I ran my old case 580C with out them I had no real problem I leared how to control the machine with the brake petal and did move it around alot in the mud with the hoe. It seamed that all the work I would get with it was down in a gully or on a hill both good uses for 4x4 and good brakes which i had non of LOL only one brake worked on the left side no parking brake . .

If you are a good operator there is no problem but even then just take it slow and feel yourself around.To dig one foundation you will have no problems just take it slow since this is your own your not under the gun so to speak to dig it in a day or to .

[58jeff]

OK Ok I know I want 4wd & have found a 580 K with everything on my wish list - Cab, 4 in 1 bkt, extendahoe & 4wd in my price range but it has 8920 hours any opinions ? I will be digging a little but will be moving a bunch of dirt so you guys talked me into looking for a 4x4 Am I going to run into hydralic repairs up the wazoo, bushings don't scare me ( welder for 30 years ) & I have a hobby shop to die for - CNC mill, mig, tig, bandsaw just about everything I need to fix anything metal oriented but pumps & such you just replace ... or do you I hope to be inspecting it next week
THX
JJ

[Dwan Hall]

The hoe sounds nice and is what I would be looking for. as far as the hydrolics go you would be better off with someone that knowes more about them then me.
The way I check them out is. Lift both the loder and backhoe the buckets with a load and shut off the machine, this checks for leaks internaly in the cylinders. lift machine with outrigers and due the same. Try to lift the machine at idle with outrigers and loader bucket. (if it lifts then pump is good, Damm good). same with backhoe bucket. at idle curl loder bucket and see if it will kill machine, if it does then pump is good. Also try side preasure with backhoe bucket at full reach as a lot of people use this method for backfilling a trench. extend hoe all the way out, suspend the bucket, shut off machine, go out to bucket and see how much side play there is. (tight <6") loose >1'). Check all hoses for rub marks and cracks.

Some of these methuds may not be what every one would do but it has worked for me.

Dwan

[58jeff]

This is just the kind of info I will print out to remind me what I need to check
Ask me about welding / machining / Scuba diving but backhoes is a new learning experience
JJ

[Cat420]

8920 hours seems pretty high to me. With that many hours, you have to ask some serious questions. How many more hours does it have left and what will it cost in terms of repairs to get to the end of those hours? How will this machine be if not used on regular basis? (it's not good for any vehicle to sit unused, especially diesels) You get the idea. Some people are more exact with maintenance than others and it could be in good shape, but that sounds like A LOT of hours. I spend a ton of time online and search various equipment websites and I don't see too many Case backhoes for sale in good condition with over 10,000 hours. Just my take, but if the machine is sound and appears that it will meet your needs, then just be sure to pay extra attention for signs of wear to prevent serious problems.

[Steve Frazier]

I have to agree with Cat420.

Most TLBs are pretty much used up at 10,000 hours as far as daily commercial use goes. At that point they often become estate or farm machines for ocassional use, not something to count on to make a living with.

I'd ask for an oil sample (draw it yourself) and have it anylized. This will tell you how much life is left in the engine.

[58jeff]

It will most likely be used every day for a few hours at most I too don't like to leave machines sit but with the exception of the one basement, footers for my garage & a watertower foundation it should have a pretty easy life it would be a waste of a good machine to pay too much for a low hour machine when I might only put 100 hours a year on one after the basement it will spend the rest of it's life cleaning out drainage ditches & moving brush / Dirt piles
JJ

[Dwan Hall]

100 hours a year would be about the same as 15 to 20 days of rent. compaire the price of renting a newer machine.
If this hoe checks out then it sounds like a perfict one for your needs. even if is has high hours there is nothing like the feel of ownership of a piece of equipment.
if you have to have it then you can blame it on your mother for not buying you enough Tonka toys durning your first childhood.

Good luck and keep us posted

[Steve Frazier]

I went back to your original post here, I'd forgotten your intent for this machine. It should work out well if you're mechanically inclined and can do some of your own repairs. I'd still get an oil sample analysis, it will tell you if the engine is about to let go. Cheap insurance.

[58jeff]

About the only thing that really scares me on tractors is torque converter transmissions almost like an automatic tranny in a car which I think works by magic
My neighbor has me work on everything for him from JD A's to a 4430 I split the first tractor we bought when my wife grenaded the tranny ( honey the tractor is making noise ) everything from vintage corvettes to bicycles so the grease is in my blood so long as the hydralics are good & it shifts good i'll be happy
jj

[cat320]

At least your half way there you know your way around equipment as far as the mechanics of them even if you thing the trannies work by magic LOL .Alot of guy just drive them and have no clue because they work for a big outfit that has mega mechanics to fix things .alot of the owner operators know how to fix alot of thinks otherwise they would probably be out of business if they had to always pay to have it fixed . Good luck with getting that K

[58jeff]

Hydralics were strong, motor sounded great, 1 new front tire, Cab a little beat but workable, Hood needed work to keep from rattling around pins were a little worn but fixable & very useable for a while
So what was real bad ???
Oh yeah the clutch / tranny was smoked wouldn't move a tire when it was up in the air let alone on the ground the owners nephew said it would be a simple / cheep repair
I will let this one pass guess I'll keep looking
How much work is it to do a clutch replacment how much $$
THX
JJ
Worth the 1000 mile drive to learn a little more about backhoes

[cat320]

There is nothing easy about it I'm not sure on the K's but the newer models have more modeular sections for easier replacement but nothing with equipment is easy as far as i'm concerned .

[Dwan Hall]

Jeff,
Check with your local Case dealer and ask how much it would cost to have them do it. Then ask to see a service manual, it should go through it step by step. It still may be worth it if the clucth replacement is cheap.

Be sure to subtract the repair price from the sale price


Dwan

[58jeff]

My " new " 580 SL 4wd Cab ex hoe 4 in 1 bkt should be here this week but will need a battery & gas cap I also need a source for a owners manual & service manual any suggestions I also plan changing all fluids filters & all 4 tires
THX
JJ

[cat320]

Your local dealer will have the service manual for a price tag of around $400 I have been looking too have not found any for my L can you post any pics of the new machine when it comes in how many hours on it and what did it end up costing ?

[Harahush]

Does anyone know how difficult it is to repair the brakes on a Case 58D super? The left brake works a little the right brake does not work at all.

[Phil]

Welcome Harahush:drinkup. You've come to the right place. The 580D is my favourite:D....not sure if the Super D has a different brake set-up than the D, never had one. We've got some mechanics here too. To answer the first part of your question, the brake system is easy to work on. I like to take the floor plate up on these machines, I think it's worth the effort and almost everything is exposed. If you do a search, info on Case brakes has been posted recently. Phil

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Harahush! :drinkup

[rutwad]

http://www.gnb.ca/0062/regl/82-113ii.htm (Equipment Production Dates)

This link brings you to a page with a ton of information regarding equipment production dates as well as engine models, hp, and other things. It is handy for deciphering many number and letter combinations for equipment.

I can't get this link to work.

BTW, how would you rate these features in order of preference:
4-n-1 bucker
4x4
extendahoe

And for the $30k range, in what order would you rate these:
Cat 416
JD 310
Case 580

Any machines or models to avoid?
How many hours would you try to stay under?

:usa

[coopers]

1) extendahoe
2) 4x4)
3) 4 in 1 bucket (don't particularly care for them)

1) case 580
2) JD 310
3) Cat 416

Case was the first to start the TLB ever, then followed everyone else. They make great machines (so does everyone else but IMO Case is the leader) and they run forever. You see many older Case backhoes running still to this day rather than other makes. 580K's seem to be the model that Case just poorly made, electrical problems, rust, other issues...B's, C's, D's, E's (most stolen backhoe in the U.S. at the time the E came out), L's, and M's are great machines.

[rutwad]

1) extendahoe
2) 4x4)
3) 4 in 1 bucket (don't particularly care for them)

1) case 580
2) JD 310
3) Cat 416

Case was the first to start the TLB ever, then followed everyone else. They make great machines (so does everyone else but IMO Case is the leader) and they run forever. You see many older Case backhoes running still to this day rather than other makes. 580K's seem to be the model that Case just poorly made, electrical problems, rust, other issues...B's, C's, D's, E's (most stolen backhoe in the U.S. at the time the E came out), L's, and M's are great machines.

You made a good point that I had not realized. I do see more old Case backhoes still operating than the other brands. Maybe they are just too good to give up..:D!

[JS580SL]

I swear by Case. John Deere is right there with them.

[coopers]

You made a good point that I had not realized. I do see more old Case backhoes still operating than the other brands. Maybe they are just too good to give up..:D!

Very true.

[Harahush]

Welcome Harahush:drinkup. You've come to the right place. The 580D is my favourite:D....not sure if the Super D has a different brake set-up than the D, never had one. We've got some mechanics here too. To answer the first part of your question, the brake system is easy to work on. I like to take the floor plate up on these machines, I think it's worth the effort and almost everything is exposed. If you do a search, info on Case brakes has been posted recently. Phil

I cannot find the info on Case Brakes?

[Bob t]

I am a new member looking for a used backhoe, would like to get one for less than 18k. All this information is very interesting and informative. Worked at a Cat Plant in NC for 11 years assembling wheel loaders and did some rework on new backhoes. Retired in 2001 like cat equipment but it is very expensive in comparising to the other makes. I would like to use it to remove a hill to level off an acre lot then build a garage/shop not sure if I would need a e-stick or 4x4 It will be used in Maine near Bangor, would like the 4 in 1 bucket to deal with brush and trees. Any recomendations to what machine might match my needs. Saw a jd 310d standard stick and bucket 4x4 7000 hours for less the 12k ???

[ATCOEQUIP]

Go check it out and let us know how everything works and what kind of condition it's in.

[Bob t]

Tried calling 3x today get answering machine, left messages but have not heard back. I will try calling saturday maybe some one will answer. Could they be wintering in Florida ???

[LT-x7]

I would be lost without an extenda-hoe!

[cat320]

I am a new member looking for a used backhoe, would like to get one for less than 18k. All this information is very interesting and informative. Worked at a Cat Plant in NC for 11 years assembling wheel loaders and did some rework on new backhoes. Retired in 2001 like cat equipment but it is very expensive in comparising to the other makes. I would like to use it to remove a hill to level off an acre lot then build a garage/shop not sure if I would need a e-stick or 4x4 It will be used in Maine near Bangor, would like the 4 in 1 bucket to deal with brush and trees. Any recomendations to what machine might match my needs. Saw a jd 310d standard stick and bucket 4x4 7000 hours for less the 12k ???

look in the machinery trader you can see all brands that are close to you . I think e-hoe and 4x4 would be a definate i don't know what i did for so many years with out the 2 a 4 n 1 would be nice too.

[dblaneyfan]

What is the general feeling out there about JCB 214's? We have three at my job. After running some a 214e and a 416, I believe I prefer the JCB over the Cat (and I hate to say that as we run Cat dozer's exclusively). I haven't had to work on a JCB backhoe, so I might change my mind in the future...

[Auctioneerhere]

Test them fully warmed up also

[LT-x7]

What is the general feeling out there about JCB 214's? We have three at my job. After running some a 214e and a 416, I believe I prefer the JCB over the Cat (and I hate to say that as we run Cat dozer's exclusively). I haven't had to work on a JCB backhoe, so I might change my mind in the future...

I bought a 99 JCB 214 about 4-5 months ago, I've put about 110 hours on it. So far I'm very happy with it.

[Bob t]

I don't know much about running backhoes, especially the difference between each machinebut I do know the quality on cats are very good and that is probrably reflected in the cost of used Cat backhoes which I could not afford or justify for my own personal use.

[JS580SL]

As I said before, I'd beg to differ on Cat backhoe qaulity.

[Scottyboy]

Lots of good info here. Thanks!