Allis Chalmers 260E

[72V]

I may (or may not) pick up a little weekend work running a scraper for a relative, building a pond as weather permits. He's got an old AC 260E. Anybody been around one or these gals before?

To boot, I'm not a scraper hand... I know basically how they function, and have pushed them some, but have no seat time in one. Any input, suggestions, or whatever have you would be appreciated, specific to this machine or not.

[Construct'O]

I may (or may not) pick up a little weekend work running a scraper for a relative, building a pond as weather permits. He's got an old AC 260E. Anybody been around one or these gals before?

To boot, I'm not a scraper hand... I know basically how they function, and have pushed them some, but have no seat time in one. Any input, suggestions, or whatever have you would be appreciated, specific to this machine or not.

I'm guessing the "E" stands for elevating scraper.Right! Hopefully it will be at least a powershift,if not and you are hauling aways you will bein for a long day.

The only elevating scraper i evr run was an MRS with a Hancock elevating scraper on it.It was drivien by pto box and driveshats.It had a slip clutch so if you tryed to load it to fast th clutch would slip and the paddles would stop.

it was a realy deal needless to say.It had was a stick shift with a GM Detroit 471 engine.Good power auntil you started to pull it down and then it would fall on it's nose.They work better with convertor type machine where you can keep the rpm's up.

You will probably need to stay out of the mud and make long smooth cuts if your loading yourself.It suppose it will be like the Hancok scraoer the floor will go half back and the dirt drops down under the scraper then the crowd come forward to push out the rest of the dirt.

The only Ac scraper i have been on was 460B i went to NM. to work one winter and got a job at Hatch,NM. working on a large dam job.It was a twin barrel and wasn't a bad scraper to run.Rough ride like all them.

They was made to run two at one time with one operater ,but was unconnected and just ran one at a time when i was there.Will good luck and have fun.

[surfer-joe]

The 260E should be a regular scraper. The E is the series designation. The 261 was the elevating or paddle-wheel model. Worked on a ton of those for DeWind Machinery in Florida years ago.

A 260 should be pretty straight forward machine to run. It likely won't be able to self load much so would need to be pushed by something.

Good luck!

[72V]

Thanks for the replies.

It's a paddle scraper. It's former running mate was a 261B. This 260 has "John Deere" style axles (no planetary hub) and an AC engine with no muffler. Hopefully it isn't a pile of garbage. Time will tell!

[Buckethead]

I believe the E stands for elevating, before they sold out to Fiat and they came out with the Fiat-Allis 261 self loading scraper. I think on the early ACs like that the bowl and elevator was made by Hancock, like the MRS Constructo ran. (except the elevator is probably driven hydraulically)

[72V]

Thanks, Buckethead.

Here's some pictures....

It looks to be about the same size as a Cat 615 I would guess.

[Construct'O]

It has the hydraulic drive for the paddles ,thats a big plus!!!!! Nice big strong headache bar,hope you don't have to test it out.

The straight pipe looks to come out by the bars on the headache rack,might be a little noisy.

When will you get started on your project?Hope you get some pictures.Will you have other equipment helping?

Machine looks pretty clean for it's age and having to probably always set outside.

Let us know how things goes okay? Have fun and take care/good luck:usa

[72V]

I doubt anything will happen this year. The fall rains have set in now, and I think opening the ground up at this point might be foolish.

For equipment, I'd like to have at least a D6 sized cat and a pad foot compactor, not to mention a water truck. But since my relative is a farmer, well....... :beatsme Maybe I can talk him into at least borrowing a small dozer with a ripper. Bring on the baling wire and bubblegum! :)

If I do it for him, I will design and stake the thing before any dirt moves... then dig a core trench, fill it in with good material, install an overflow/drain pipe, and then build the fill up at 2.5 or 3 to 1.

The soil is a reddish clay-loam. I'm not sure how it's going to work for sealing, or compaction without water.

[72V]

BTW, Surfer Joe, I gave the wrong series designation for the machine. It is a 260E, Series A; I would have called it a 260A-E if I'd made the decals.

[surfer-joe]

I never had much exposure to AC construction equipment before 1973. That's when I went to work for De Wind Machinery with their huge fleet of customer 261's. It was the elevating scraper of choice at the time in Florida. For a scraper without a cushion-hitch, they rode well and were very effective performers in Florida's mostly sandy terrain. They had an excellant engine and plenty of power to the paddles.

I think someone here remarked that the pictures of the one you posted look like a Hancock and I agree with that. I suppose nearly everyone, including Cat, tried Hancock or Johnson scrapers early on. I would suppose that these machines were the fore-runners of the later series.

[72V]

I put the old gal to work today leveling a building pad for a new shop building. This morning I went through the machine, hunting down grease zerks, checking fluids, tighening the fan belts, checking the air filter, etc. Before I ran it, though, I took the nice, wide seat belt out of a Terex 90C loader and installed it.... no chances need be taken there.

I think I looked like a real scraper operator even... :D sitting with my back to the "door" and my left foot on the throttle. Other than the fact that the brakes were almost non-existant, the machine didn't do too bad for what I was doing with it. I noticed that the ejector and the apron were on the same circuit. Since there is another slot for a third lever, I wonder if that is the factory stock setup. The elevator motor is controlled by a small hydraulic valve by the shift tower.


Are the brake cans on this scraper spring cans? There is a parking brake air toggle, but it doesn't seem to do anything.

Boy, does that AC 21000 beller noise and belch smoke.... kinda makes me appreciate more modern, efficient engines.

[RKO]

I had two 260E Allis scrapers and they were push off scrapers. One had an Allis engine and one had a Buda engine. For their day they were good scrapers, easy to load and unload. Never saw an 260E as an elevator scraper??

[surfer-joe]

72V, I think the brakes on the 260 were standard cam-types. I don't think AC used wedgies on their scrapers, not that I can remember anyway. If this is the case, they are simple to adjust and maintain -- provided they are not worn out. I also doubt they are maxi types, or Corps of Engineers types as we used to call them on the Cats.

Take a 9/16ths combo wrench and a small hammer and place the wrench on the adjusting bolt head on the brake cam adjuster. Push the wrench downwards to release the stop from the bolt head, and turn clock-wise to tighten. Tighten the cam all the way till it won't go any more with firm pressure. Then loosen or back the adjuster bolt off about an 1/8th to a 1/4 turn. You may have to wiggle the bolt a bit to reseat it in the stop. If the stop won't release in the first place, that's what the hammer is for. Place the wrench on the bolt and tap it down slightly with the hammer. You will feel it give and then should be able to turn it. Keep your eye on the brake actuator rods, if they start moving outwards from the brake chambers you are turning the bolt the wrong way. If the cam continues to rotate without anything tightening up and you hear a clicking thump once every revolution, it's too late, the shoes and drums are worn out, they are cramming over.

Your brakes likely do not have covers over them so should be visible from the inside if the wheel. Scraper brake shoes are thick and you ought to have at least three quarters of an inch of lining remaining for them to work properly. If you do not have this much left, and the brakes still adjust OK, you can probably work them for a while yet, but they will need new shoes (relined) soon as well as new drums. Of course, the biggest, baddest brake you have is in your right hand. Drop the can and you will come to a stop quick -- I guarantee it! You can pick yourself out of the instrument panel and windshield later.

Give the brake cam bearings and adjusters a shot of grease while you are under there, they rarely get any from most oilers or operators.

Good Luck!

[72V]

Thanks for the info, Surfer Joe. They are S-cam brakes if I looked at them right. The adjuster nut on the slack adjuster looked a bit bigger than the standard size 9/16 head on truck slack adjusters, but I will assume the adjustment procedure as you described would be the same. The rear brakes are not even connected to the cans at the clevises for some reason... not sure why that is yet.

Yes, that cutting edge brings you to a stop fast, doesn't it? I'm glad it works so well, as I was working next to fuel tanks and machinery sheds on a sidehill.

Something interesting on this old morphodite scraper that I discovered, was that an electric solenoid controls a hydraulic valve on the back of the gooseneck, that reverses the flow to elevator motor. The solenoid is disconnected from the valve at present. I'll have to get it working again.

[surfer-joe]

You're right. The old slack adjusters on construction equipment did have a larger adjuster bolt. I forgot. The dern things have a different holding device too, more like a detent ball and spring inside the adjuster.

Look at your rear shoe condition, that may tell you the story why the rears are disconnected.

Yep, the bowl is a mighty fine stopping device, as a last resort. The old Letourneau's and Wabco's had what was known as a "quick release" on the motor and brake setup that controlled the bowl cable. There was no control over the device however, once you tripped the switch, down the bowl came till the ground stopped it. Most of these were quickly disconnected for obvious reasons.

Cat still has quick release valves in their scrapers today, however they can be controlled. Still, once the lever is pushed hard over, that bowl comes down mighty fast.

You rarely need reverse on the elevator tho some operators prefer to use it when spreading a load. It does come in handy with materials that tend to stick or bind up in the bowl, clay for instance. Be interesting to know if that function still works OK.

Good Luck!

[Serv]

Thanks, Buckethead.


It looks to be about the same size as a Cat 615 I would guess.


Isn't the 615 a 15 yard machine?


If this is anything like a Fiat Allis 260b or 261b, then I'd guess it's in the 21-23 yard capacity range.


We picked up a 261b a while back and that thing was pretty big. :cool:


http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o22/sy733/fiat%20allis%20261B/

[72V]

Yep, I have since found out that this is a bit larger capacity machine than I first thought. I guess it would be more like a 623 in terms of bowl capacity.