plowing with grader

[dumptrucker]

Thought we ought to start a new thread since there seems to be much interest.

We don't have a plow on our grader, wish we did. We just plow with moldboard and wing. In the winter we take out every other cutting edge bolt in the moldboard. This way when you hit that manhole you have gone over a hundred times in the past 4 months, it doesn't break anything on the machine except the cutting edge will shear off the rest of the bolts.

As far as chains go, we run them on the front too. Helps greatly with the steering on hardpaked snow and ice. We went to a chain with hardended cross-links. We start out with new set and by the end of the season we might have worn them down 60 percent. This is with about a 1,000 hours on them in a season.

[Grader4me]

Yes, I should have started a new thread on this. Thanks dumptrucker! I could go on for days on this subject. I suppose everyone is saying "oh no!" :D

Wheel chains is a good subject to start with. In one of our divisions it's all hills and I mean hills. We ran with this type of wheel chain and it worked really well. Gave the "bite" the operator needed.


7881

[dumptrucker]

We use a hardened roller grip chain. We also went to a new good year tire that has small slits in the tread to grip ice. They work great.

[Grader4me]

We use a hardened roller grip chain. We also went to a new good year tire that has small slits in the tread to grip ice. They work great.


We only have one grader that runs the type of chain that is in the picture. Very expensive. For the others we have what is called "ice chain" as one side of the cross chain has sharp edges. We also don't have the type of tires that are in the picture. Probably ours are similar to what you have. I find with the tires (picture) the cross chain has a tendency to settle in between the treads and give you less traction.

I suppose you wouldn't have a picture of the type of chain that you use?

[dumptrucker]

I don't have any pictures of the chain we use, sorry. Its basicly a regular cross chain but instead of the chain link being round ,it is a square edged link that is hardend more than regular chain. You also don't need a chain tool to remove them. The end link that goes into the hook has a groove just big enough for the single hook to slip into and you slide it right around the hook and off it comes. I know it sounds confusing, sorry . Wish I had a picture.

[MKTEF]

Now we are talking.:D
Chains is always a nice topic to discuss.
We got winter here too. ;)

The Army prefer the one to the right. Has a lot of knobs. Runs very nice at high speed, the slack is lokated behind the wheel all the time.
Dosen't go around a slams on each round.
Fits good on all types of wheels, and dosen't go inside the pattern on the wheel.
U also get a evenly wear on the whole chain.
And the chains dosent lay down when u try to spin it. It makes some nice holes in the asphalt real quick.:rolleyes:
We also has a repair kit for it. When u have used 6 repair hooks its worn out.

The one to the left is cheaper, is used on wheels with smaller knobs where it doesnt go between the pattern on the wheel.
This one is identical to the truck ones, only bigger and with more chains.
Here u can insert new chains if they brake. With a big tong.;)

And theese types of chains do get a great bite on ice. There is some knobs pressed down into ice and snow.

[Grader4me]

The one to the left is cheaper, is used on wheels with smaller knobs where it doesnt go between the pattern on the wheel.
This one is identical to the truck ones, only bigger and with more chains.
Here u can insert new chains if they brake. With a big tong.

This is the type that we use. Cut my eye teeth on one of those puppies. :) Quite a job to build a set of chains from scratch. If I did it now, I would probably have to take a lot of breaks, maybe even lay down for a bit :yup


7887

[Ford LT-9000]

You guys can keep your snow rain is easier to shovel :D

The local highways dept tried graders for plowing but with only 2 grader operators they can't cover the 1000 kilometers of roads the highways dept takes care of. The single axle 35,000lb gvw plow truck is the most commonly used carrying that rotten liquid car ruster :cussing

Last winter the lower coast seen maybe 6 inches of snow it lasted 2 weeks and disapeared :D

One year they plowed with the grader 14G Cat it did too much damage to the road the pavement in some parts of the area is 60 years old. The grader operator has 25 years experience so it wasn't from lack of experience.

The days of the old 740 Champions with screaming 6\71 power are long gone.

[MKTEF]

You're right grader4me, we got the same tong as shown.:)

But we don't realy need it, cause the chains we use have s formed hooks that fit nicely. And a smal rubber to put in the middle. It fits between the three parts of steel.

The only time we use the tong, is when we buy sivilian chains in a local store.
And need to do repair work on them.
We only get the military ones in the system. They are repaired with the s hooks.:cool:
Added a picture of it.
On our chains its two of theese, one on each longitudional chain.
Only difference is its clamped on one of the ends.

We only buy premade chains, its not economical to build them.

Regarding rust and snow, cars in the nothern parts of the country with much snow rust less than those in the south.:o
And thats cause they use salt on the roads in the south.
Salt+snow=steel eater. or swedish chrome, as we call it.

No salt means no problem with rust.
But then u have to accept that its ice on the road, through the whole winter.
U don't see the black asphalt at all through the winter.
Winter tires with steel knobs is the answer. And chains when needed.

All trucks over 7000lbs must carry at least 3 chains from 1. okt to 1. may.
And they must be adjusted for the wheels.(1 front and two back)
No discussion, u get a fine + park untill the chains is there.;)
Got a trailer, add a number of chains..

[Grader4me]

Thanks MKTEF. You are using the S- hooks to replace the side chain hooks I take it
7901 This is a smaller one but you get the idea



So you also use the S- hook to replace the cross chain hook? Or do you just fix a broken cross chain with the S-hook. What if you had to replace the whole cross chain, wouldn't you still have to use the chain pliers? I've seen the s-hooks used for the side chain but not for the cross chain. Curious..

7902

[MKTEF]

I understand your question.:)

But in practice u wear out the cross chains on our chains.(design to the right)
The S hook fits nicely in the chain. The chains are twisted so it fits real nice, and dosent open/get loose.
I have never seen any of our chains that have a worn out sidechain before the cross chains. And we sometimes wear them down so that the knobs are totaly away.

For the chains to the left u will need the plier. With that design there is no problem to destroy the cross chains. One spinning turn with it and u got two or three broken cross chains.
Low gear and steep hills make u use a lot of chains trough the winter.
And u must have a number of cross chains and side hooks when u use that design of chains. U put an enormous amount of force into one or two cross chains when starting uphill.
This is what i call the sivilian design.;)

Thats one of the reasons for the armys choise of chain design.:cool:
And they are tested realy bad.
Dot isn't always happy with that, driving around in summer time with chains to find the lifelenght of the chains....

Mounting:
The military ones have two hooks that u have to conect in the middle of the tire.(longitudional chains going all the way around)
Second u hook together on the inside.(sidechain)
Last u hook together and tighten the ring chain on the outside.
Side chains only have hooks.
Between the sidechain connections there is rings and a chain inside theese so u tighten this one last.(ring chain on the outside)
Added a picture of the tightening chain on the outside.

Added also two pics of the use of the s-hooks for repair.

[Grader4me]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Okay, so we pretty much solved all the in & outs of chain maintenance/design. What's next? Surely someone must have a good "plowing with a grader" story or two to share.:)

[dumptrucker]

Last year on valentines day we got between 18 and 42 inches depending on where in town you measured. We have one road that you have to take a long way around and plow down it. The road section that is the most difficult is pretty steep and narrow. The road is only about 10 foot wide with 10 foot high banks on each side. We call it the chute.
During that storm we had a couple of break downs so I was covering other routes with the grader. So by the time I was able to get back to my route and plow the chute out we had about 30 inches of snow.
I started down the chute angled my moldboard to the left and put the wing down to just skim the bank to try to shove the snow up on top. I headed down in about 3 or 4 gear rolling the snow pretty good. Got half way down and it had drifted pretty good making it about 4 feet deep or more. I knew if I gave up and tried to back up I was all done and stuck , so I just went for it hoping that the steepness of the grade will keep my momentum going. As i went through the drifted area the snow was a little wetter there and didn't roll off the blade, it started building up , first I couldn't see the moldboard then the front wheels disappeared. After about a hundred feet down I couldn't even see the main beam, the only thing that was visible were the lift cylinders. The snow started piling up against the lower windows, but I was still going , don't know how though:beatsme . I finally reached a water turn out and the snow just fell out from underneath me and filled that turn out quite full. I made it through. Unfortunately I had to go back around and come down 3 more times to clean up the snow and make it passable.
I have gotten graders stuck before but I thought that I was going to be entombed there for the winter!:D
Thank god that we spent 3 weeks and widend that road out. Now it is like a highway compared to before.

[Grader4me]

Wow! That's a good story! A good steep downgrade and good footing and it's amazing how much you can wade through. I can picture it now...petal to the metal, heart in your throat, death grip on the steering wheel...yup, the pleasures of plowing snow :D

[Grader4me]

We don't have a plow on our grader, wish we did. We just plow with moldboard and wing.


I'm curious as to why you guy's don't have a front plow for your grader. Have you ever tryed one?

[dumptrucker]

I'm curious as to why you guy's don't have a front plow for your grader. Have you ever tryed one?



We have never tried one, but we really don't need one. We don't plow with the grader on back roads where it would work really well. We use trucks unless a truck breaks down or we get a ton of snow and need to wing back. We try to do most of our winging back during storms then you don't get all the contractors mad about winging in the driveway.
The grader stays mostly in the village plowing the streets. Last winter we were down 1 truck all winter. We decided to get a new ten wheeler , so we traded 1 truck for it. The people who put the equipment on the truck dropped the ball and took 4 months to set up the truck.

[Grader4me]

Another winter task that we do with our graders is scarfiying our gravel roads after the ice/snow has built up on them. For those that have no idea what I am talking about, let me explain.

Our winters in this part of the world consist of a mixture of weather. Snow, freezing rain, rain etc. Our gravel roads build up quite quickly with a hardpack of ice and snow. After awhile it becomes rough and slippery and the sand that's applied doesn't last very long. We install serrated moldboard blades on the graders and scarfiy these roads. It achieves a couple of things. It smooths out the road, gives the motorists better traction, and the grooves hold the sand after it's been applied.

Anyone else use these? I also might share a story or two of a couple of "adventurous" trips that I had while out scarfiying roads and what I've learned because of it. :)

[dumptrucker]

We have never scarrified roads here. We have so much traffic on our roads that the vehicles wear it down to frozen dirt. If our roads start getting rough we skim a coat of 3/4 inch gravel down them filling in the potholes. We try to do this just before a cold snap so it freezes in good.
As far as the sand not working on the ice, Last year we used calcium chloride mix and wetted down our loads. It worked real well. The sand stuck to the ice and didn't get blown off by the cars.

[Grader4me]

We have never scarrified roads here. We have so much traffic on our roads that the vehicles wear it down to frozen dirt. If our roads start getting rough we skim a coat of 3/4 inch gravel down them filling in the potholes. We try to do this just before a cold snap so it freezes in good.
As far as the sand not working on the ice, Last year we used calcium chloride mix and wetted down our loads. It worked real well. The sand stuck to the ice and didn't get blown off by the cars.

Been there and done that with the gravel. We have some trucks rigged up to wet the salt before it's applied, but we don't wet the sand.

[LowBoy]

Great stuff, that calcium chloride. On a quiet night, you can hear a CHEVY rust!:lmao


On a serious note, I live on top of a mountain that is literally downhill, both ways. 1/2 way between 2 towns, 10 miles each direction to civilization. It's bittersweet in the winter, especially at 2300 ft.A.S.L., in the snowbelt.

I understand the state has undergone some experimental situation this summer on the downhill grades on both sides of this mountain, with "heated" pavement. I will need to do some more homework on the subject before I elaborate on it, but I heard that there is some type of heating elements imbedded under the asphalt in strategic locations on the steepest parts of both grades. (There are emergency truck escape ramps on both east & west sides of this mountain,to give an idea of the steepness of the grade,around 8%, I'm in between both.)

I am not sure what the heating elements are powered by either. More information coming soon. What little info I did manage to get on the subject, however, raised some good, sensible questions. Such as...when the snow & ice melts and runs downhill to an area not heated, what happens there?:beatsme Seems as though the runoff will hit an untreated, unheated spot and seek revenge immediately there, no?

Anyone else have this fancy, expensive heated asphalt in their area?

[Grader4me]

New to me. I would be curious as to how that would pan out. Probably in an area like you describe it might work okay. Must be quite an expensive undertaking though. If it is heated then snow and ice wouldn't bond to it anyway, so maybe there wouldn't be a lot of runoff, but what about the area just as you come off the heated part? Sounds like this could be a place for black ice. :beatsme

[LowBoy]

New to me. I would be curious as to how that would pan out. Probably in an area like you describe it might work okay. Must be quite an expensive undertaking though. If it is heated then snow and ice wouldn't bond to it anyway, so maybe there wouldn't be a lot of runoff, but what about the area just as you come off the heated part? Sounds like this could be a place for black ice. :beatsme

My sentiments exactly. There will have to be some consequences deriving from the transition between heated and non-heated surfaces you'd think.

Then again, what do I know? (Terribly sorry.:o )

[Grader4me]

My sentiments exactly. There will have to be some consequences deriving from the transition between heated and non-heated surfaces you'd think.

Then again, what do I know? (Terribly sorry.:o )


I'm sure you will know soon enough. You live there! Happy motoring! :) Seriously though, let us know if you get any more information on this.

[9420pullpan]

thought i would post some blades in action....

8041

8042

8043

8044

8045

[EZ TRBO]

Here is a few from us this winter.
Trbo

[Grader4me]

Great pictures! Ahhh..plowing with a vee..you have to love it. EZ TRBO...in the picture of the grader opening the road, was it during the last of the season (early spring)? Snow looks quite packy and it looks like the vee is bringing up some dirt.

[EZ TRBO]

Yes up until that storm every other snow had been really cold, so fluffy and lots of drifts. We actually had a few good days of melting, and soft shoulders when we got dumped on. Lots of blowing and heavy wet snow, really amazed how much it did drift but the wind blew like crazy. I took the pics as that day I was in the truck and had that road cleared from both sides to that point(bout 300 feet long anywhere from 3 to 8 feet deep). Our grader man had spent the entire morning on the west end of the township just getting it open while myself and the full time patrolman worked the east side with the trucks. Up until this year I had never ran the grader and Kevin, whom is somtimes like a second father to me gave me some tips and said you know enough about equipment to get started and just go slow and pay attention. I really enjoy plowing with the grader. My dad is the Highway Comish. and they had all 4 of there graders out plus the last two Oshkosh 4x4's for most of the storms this winter, with all the blowing we were running out of places to stack snow in the road ditches.
Trbo

[Grader4me]

Up until this year I had never ran the grader and Kevin, whom is somtimes like a second father to me gave me some tips and said you know enough about equipment to get started and just go slow and pay attention. I really enjoy plowing with the grader. My dad is the Highway Comish. and they had all 4 of there graders out plus the last two Oshkosh 4x4's for most of the storms this winter, with all the blowing we were running out of places to stack snow in the road ditches.

Whewww..I had to get off that 666 post:eek: You guy's have your trucks rigged up as one person plows? I always enjoyed plowing with them once and awhile but would never trade one for a grader.

[LowBoy]

Whewww..I had to get off that 666 post:eek: You guy's have your trucks rigged up as one person plows? I always enjoyed plowing with them once and awhile but would never trade one for a grader.


Sorry to butt in & be off topic at the same time. Those triple 6's aren't my cup 'o tea either. I once registered a truck at DMV and those number plates came up, but I refused to accept them from the clerk. She just laughed, I didn't think it was all that funny. The other day, my odometer read 237,666 and I mashed it as hard as I could to the floor to get to the next mile. Weird, Huh?:OMG

[EZ TRBO]

I myself have never run the big Oshkosh trucks but they are ran as two man trucks, the Hwy dept only takes them out in really bad weather now, as the graders only require one person and are a bit more handy, and commfy to operate. The state trucks are Tandem trucks, with the 4 lane trucks having double wings and the rest of the county roads and all the townships use "cookie" trucks, single axles. I myself would rather spend all day in the grader, funner and when you are going down the middle of the road cleaning it out and a small truck comes at you, they don't even think of trying to play chicken.
Trbo

I'll see if I can get some pics of the countys big trucks.

[Grader4me]

I'll see if I can get some pics of the countys big trucks.

That would be great :)


The other day, my odometer read 237,666 and I mashed it as hard as I could to the floor to get to the next mile. Weird, Huh?


Weird? Noooo..I would have done the same thing....well... maybe a little weird...but I'm with ya on this one :thumbsup

[Vahighwayman]

When I was with Virginia DOT, we had front mounted angle plows with 11ft blade on our graders. All our graders had front mount scarfiers and the plow mounted on that. They had no side wing attachment, the roads weren't that wide, maybe 15ft at the best and the primary roads 13ft per lane so you didn't have much of a shoulder. With the front plow angled to the right and your circle with belly blade swung out, you were able to push with one pass down one lane and up the other instead of having the trucks make 2 separate passes. The trucks had no side wings either all they had 11ft blades. being from NY in the first place before moving there, I laughed when I saw the trucks with 11ft blades, I asked if we were pushing driveways or highways! To my surprise, there where roads that I thought was someone's driveway..LOL So yet..Me and my Volvo G720B boogied along just fine. All I can say is that I'm glad to be back home in NY.

[Grader4me]

With the front plow angled to the right and your circle with belly blade swung out, you were able to push with one pass down one lane and up the other instead of having the trucks make 2 separate passes


Yup..Been there and done that. Good to see you back on the forum!

[Vahighwayman]

Ya it's been awhile..glad to be back..and I'd figured as much that every motor grader operater has done that in the snow areas

[sdPete]

A bit of action from the end of last season....

[Grader4me]

Welcome to the forum sdPete :drinkup Nice pictures! I'm a little curious about the wing setup (rear lift) as it looks different than what I'm used to.

[EZ TRBO]

Welcome to the forum sdPete :drinkup Nice pictures! I'm a little curious about the wing setup (rear lift) as it looks different than what I'm used to.

If I am right, and its like our John Deere, it acts as a stableizer as well as positioning the outer edge of the wing. There is a spring on the long bar that extends out. Works really nice when "shelving" drifts back. I know the Highway Shop has an old CAT 12 that still uses cables, and yes they still use it(and yes I'll get you some pics Grader4me).

Trbo

[Countryboy]

This one would go good with the grader in yout avatar Grader4me. :D

The machine is a Dixie Chopper Zero Turn Mower, claimed to be the fastest in the South :rolleyes:. This was at their tent at the Georgia National Fair.

Now the funny thing about the snow plow attachment is that I've only seen snow in Georgia 3 times in the 26 years I've been living. Only one of them times was it enough to use a plow. :beatsme

But the upside is that I guess you could plow the yard and cut the grass at the same time. :cool:

8791

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8793

[Dwan Hall]

How about plowing with w wheel barrow?

With this one you could arive with sand in it, Plow then sand then load your pile of snow and haul it away.
Kind of an all in one machine.

[Countryboy]

:laugh

[sdPete]

Regarding the rear wing lift question, I think the term for it is jib arm lift. The jib arm runs on its own pivots, which need to be greased. For what I do with the wing most of the time no down pressure is used or needed. I could believe the spring loaded link would be beneficial for doing wide swath work on hard surface road with packed snow. Down pressure is somewhat limited, especially compared to the grader blade, but in some situations it would be enough to get the job done.

[Grader4me]

I know the Highway Shop has an old CAT 12 that still uses cables, and yes they still use it(and yes I'll get you some pics Grader4me).

Trbo

Thanks Trbo!

This one would go good with the grader in yout avatar Grader4me.

That is one cool looking machine but...It won't take the place of the little grader in my avatar :D


How about plowing with w wheel barrow?

With this one you could arive with sand in it, Plow then sand then load your pile of snow and haul it away.
Kind of an all in one machine.

You nut :D


Regarding the rear wing lift question, I think the term for it is jib arm lift. The jib arm runs on its own pivots, which need to be greased. For what I do with the wing most of the time no down pressure is used or needed. I could believe the spring loaded link would be beneficial for doing wide swath work on hard surface road with packed snow. Down pressure is somewhat limited, especially compared to the grader blade, but in some situations it would be enough to get the job done.


I was just curious of the advantages of a wing rigged up this way. We have a couple of old cat graders that have the cable wing, but all of our newer ones have the hydraulic lift. The rear lift is on the rear wing post and consists of a wing arm and hydraulic cylinder that when extended lifts the wing. The arm is also extendable (hydraulic cylinder) for a wider path(great for shelving and plowing intersections) The rear wing arm is (where it is attached to the post) on a slide (hydraulic cylinder) so that you can bring the wing arm up so that it is level when shelving high snow banks.

This system also has a rear float, and you can also apply down pressure to the rear of the wing

[nedly05]

Can you put a wing on a small grader, like a little champion???

[Grader4me]

nedly05, I can't see any reason why you couldn't. It should be in proportion with the grader though. I would think that any attachment that will work on a regular size grader would work on a smaller one. :)

On edit...With the exception of my avatar :D

[nedly05]

That would be sweet, I'll hafta research it a bit.

[sdPete]

"I was just curious of the advantages of a wing rigged up this way. We have a couple of old cat graders that have the cable wing, but all of our newer ones have the hydraulic lift. The rear lift is on the rear wing post and consists of a wing arm and hydraulic cylinder that when extended lifts the wing. The arm is also extendable (hydraulic cylinder) for a wider path(great for shelving and plowing intersections) The rear wing arm is (where it is attached to the post) on a slide (hydraulic cylinder) so that you can bring the wing arm up so that it is level when shelving high snow banks."

The jib arm wing lift adds some degree of control which is not possible with cable lift, or the version which has a cylinder attached to the main wing pivot pulling the wing up with a short link between the cylinder and the wing. The extendable arm would allow adjustment of the overall machine width, sometimes nice for going through narrow bridges on back roads without having to slow up and hoist the end of the wing. There are times when having the wing set out to the max makes machine control more challenging, the wing has more leverage out there and can pull the front end. I have never run one with the vertical slide on the rear wing arm but once in a while it would be useful for high snow banks, that rear arm can take quite a beating rubbing on the point of the shelf.

[Grader4me]

sdPete;48285
The jib arm wing lift adds some degree of control which is not possible with cable lift, or the version which has a cylinder attached to the main wing pivot pulling the wing up with a short link between the cylinder and the wing. The extendable arm would allow adjustment of the overall machine width, sometimes nice for going through narrow bridges on back roads without having to slow up and hoist the end of the wing. There are times when having the wing set out to the max makes machine control more challenging, the wing has more leverage out there and can pull the front end. I have never run one with the vertical slide on the rear wing arm but once in a while it would be useful for high snow banks, that rear arm can take quite a beating rubbing on the point of the shelfThanks for taking the time to explain it to me. I enjoy seeing and hearing about the different types of hook ups, and the advantages of each. With the jib arm fully extended, I could see where it would make machine control more challenging, as the arm would be ridged and pushing down on the wing. Would that be correct?

I know when flat blading with the wing (our setup) the rear wing arm is level, even when extended out it is the same. If I was to bring up the rear slide so that the arm next to the post was higher that where it is attached to the wing, then it would become harder to handle. This puts more pressure on the wing as it is pushing down. When shelving high snow banks, if I didn't bring the rear slide up so that the arm is level, then the rear of the wing would lift when cutting harder sections. This is because the angle of the arm is lower at the wing post causing the wing to "ride up" on harder sections of snow.

Just the opposite when I'm shelving with the wing arm higher at the back (post) so that it is angled downward toward the wing. It will be going along fine then nosedive into the bank (softer snow) causing harder control of the machine. There that's enough for my morning rant...time for my 3rd cup of coffee then off to work.

[sdPete]

Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. I enjoy seeing and hearing about the different types of hook ups, and the advantages of each. With the jib arm fully extended, I could see where it would make machine control more challenging, as the arm would be ridged and pushing down on the wing. Would that be correct?

........ The jib arm is the lifting arm, at least that is how I was told. It is not extendable, it only hauls the outside of the wing up and down. The rear push pipe / strut / arm attaches to the rear slide and that is what I consider to be the extendable part of the system.

I know when flat blading with the wing (our setup) the rear wing arm is level, even when extended out it is the same. If I was to bring up the rear slide so that the arm next to the post was higher that where it is attached to the wing, then it would become harder to handle. This puts more pressure on the wing as it is pushing down. When shelving high snow banks, if I didn't bring the rear slide up so that the arm is level, then the rear of the wing would lift when cutting harder sections. This is because the angle of the arm is lower at the wing post causing the wing to "ride up" on harder sections of snow.

...........The movable rear slide would not be much help if the wing did not need to be run high. One ailment with the fixed rear arm position is that as the wing is raised the reach is reduced. That can be overcome somewhat by raising the inside of the wing on the main post. Even so, the tendency when driving is to run the machine out on the road shoulder to work the snow as far out as possible, increases risk of sliding off the shoulder. I generally don't have much trouble with the wing riding up on hard snow, maybe conditions are different in your area.

Just the opposite when I'm shelving with the wing arm higher at the back (post) so that it is angled downward toward the wing. It will be going along fine then nosedive into the bank (softer snow) causing harder control of the machine. There that's enough for my morning rant...time for my 3rd cup of coffee then off to work.

Agree on that one. The county guys in our area like to hang the wing down and clean the ditch banks, they go 10-12 mph and sling the snow out quite a distance. It looks like a rough ride at times, they maintain their inslopes well enough to make it work.

[alan627b]

You guys ought to visit here...
http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/index.php?s=
I sure am not looking forward to the upcoming season. As much rain as we've had in Nebraska this year, I expect winter will really suck . Thank God I have a rubber tracked Honda snowblower....interesting post.
Thanks for the pics,
Alan627b

[Grader4me]

...........The movable rear slide would not be much help if the wing did not need to be run high.

There are times when pushing back hard snowbanks(flat blading) that the rear slide works well, as you can bring it up and it puts more pressure on the wing. Having said that, you have to be careful because if you bring it all the way up you would be surprised how hard the rear of the wing will cut. Also good for that narrow bridge etc. as when bringing up the rear slide hauls the outer end of the wing in.

You guys ought to visit here...

Hello alan627b, I'm a member there but under a different user name :)

[EZ TRBO]

I myself like using the grader, and wing better than a truck. Few reasons, one bigger, and more power to bust the big drifts. Nother reason, you can see the wing. I love "shelving" drifts back and all you have to do is look out the side door and theres the wing, you know right where your wing end is at all times and can maneuver around objects so much easier, while still getting the snow pushed back into the road ditch.
Trbo

[Grader4me]

I myself like using the grader, and wing better than a truck. Few reasons, one bigger, and more power to bust the big drifts. Nother reason, you can see the wing. I love "shelving" drifts back and all you have to do is look out the side door and theres the wing, you know right where your wing end is at all times and can maneuver around objects so much easier, while still getting the snow pushed back into the road ditch.
Trbo


:iagree I also like using the grader for the same reasons. I like to drive the one person plow trucks once in a while as well. The new Internationals that we have are very nice. You get used to where your wing is even though you can't see it. The only time I really watched my wing is when I was shelving or when it was soft, as it had to be carried a bit.

Another advantage the grader had over the truck is pushing back turning places. You can get the snow back way further than a truck plow can.

I found another use for the extendable wing that probably no one has tryed. Great for cleaning snow out of the ditch, but not like you think. Our weather here is a mixed bag as heavy snow one week and the next could be heavy rain. All the snow and rain would clog up some of our ditches. In these areas I would clean them out with the wing. I would make a couple of passes with the wing fully extended and angled down on the outer end. Sometimes this was all that was needed and the water would start moving again.
Sometimes though I would get the grader as close to the shoulder as possible, extend my wing, drop the outer tip into the ditch, drop my front of the wing on the shoulder so that the wing is sloped with the ditch. Then I would back up slowly and bring the slush/snow up on the shoulder.
This would clean the ditch out and give the water a good path to follow. If I had a lot of material I would leave some of the windrow along that shoulder then blade the rest across to the opposite shoulder.
You have to be very careful doing it that way though.

[dumptrucker]

:iagree I also like using the grader for the same reasons. I like to drive the one person plow trucks once in a while as well. The new Internationals that we have are very nice. You get used to where your wing is even though you can't see it. The only time I really watched my wing is when I was shelving or when it was soft, as it had to be carried a bit.

Another advantage the grader had over the truck is pushing back turning places. You can get the snow back way further than a truck plow can.

I found another use for the extendable wing that probably no one has tryed. Great for cleaning snow out of the ditch, but not like you think. Our weather here is a mixed bag as heavy snow one week and the next could be heavy rain. All the snow and rain would clog up some of our ditches. In these areas I would clean them out with the wing. I would make a couple of passes with the wing fully extended and angled down on the outer end. Sometimes this was all that was needed and the water would start moving again.
Sometimes though I would get the grader as close to the shoulder as possible, extend my wing, drop the outer tip into the ditch, drop my front of the wing on the shoulder so that the wing is sloped with the ditch. Then I would back up slowly and bring the slush/snow up on the shoulder.
This would clean the ditch out and give the water a good path to follow. If I had a lot of material I would leave some of the windrow along that shoulder then blade the rest across to the opposite shoulder.
You have to be very careful doing it that way though.

I do that here to. Works great. If we know that a heavy rain storm is coming we will try to clean the diches ahead of time. But as you know this doesn't always work.
I will also crab the grader and drop my front wheel in the ditch. The wheel pushes the slush out of the way and makes a nice channel for the water to run down.

[Grader4me]

I do that here to. Works great. If we know that a heavy rain storm is coming we will try to clean the diches ahead of time. But as you know this doesn't always work.
I will also crab the grader and drop my front wheel in the ditch. The wheel pushes the slush out of the way and makes a nice channel for the water to run down.

I've had pretty good success with this method over the years. You are right as some situations require different methods. I used the wing backing up method in the deeper ditches. I have also crap walked the grader, and used the front wheel to make a path as well, but only in the shallower ditches.

Also there was times that I had to straddle the ditch, and cut a path through the ice with the front rippers (scarfiers) as there was water on the road and the ditch was built up with ice. I would take out all the shanks except for 2 or 3. Once the ice was cut I would bring it up onto the road (or backslope if there was room) with the moldboard.

I talk about all these procedures as if everything goes perfect every time. Well sometimes things don't work out quite as well as expected. Many times I've scewed up, and been right to the nut's in mud, as most times there is no frost once the ice etc. is cut out of the ditch. Crap walking, backing up using the wing, extending the moldboard into the ditch, or whatever approach you are doing, it only takes a second and you can be hauled into the ditch as everything is slippery.

But...part of becoming a good operator is learning from your mistakes.

[nedly05]

But...part of becoming a good operator is learning from your mistakes.


My Grandfather always said that anyone who isnt making a few mistakes isnt trying hard enough!

[tw_692000]

what kind of problems had with ur 672 we had to improve on john deere's designs.....lol .... looks like a factory job only better...lol.... we use a v-plow on the front of ours and the mole board...we had trouble with ice on fan shroud breaking the plastic fan and breaking belts!! we plow for hrs in deep drifts that you have to work to get through them pushing snow to the sides and backing up to hit it again...lol..

[tw_692000]

I'm curious as to why you guy's don't have a front plow for your grader. Have you ever tryed one?

you bet we use a v- plow that lifts and throws the snow on the front of our graders we use john deere 672's different lettered depending on age of machine!! we have 4 graders in use plus all the trucks for about 900 miles of county roads they work very well 4 us

[Grader4me]

we plow for hrs in deep drifts that you have to work to get through them pushing snow to the sides and backing up to hit it again...lol..

Welcome to the forum! I have a lot of experience with a vee plow as well. You hit the nail right on the head describing proper procedure.

[tw_692000]

Welcome to the forum! I have a lot of experience with a vee plow as well. You hit the nail right on the head describing proper procedure.

tks 4 the welcome :drinkup got 2 do whatever it takes to get the roads open so joe public can go site see the drifts...lol....and don't forget the darn phone calls '' when are you going to get my road plowed ,i need a gallon of milk'' even though they forcast snow a week ahead .lol........:bash

[Cat140G]

I don't know about the rest of you motor graders guys, but down here in Nebraska we've had alot of freezing rain this year. We've been fighting like dogs to get the ice off of our roads. We've got reclaimers or (scarifiers) on the front trying to break through, but we're tearing the crap out of the front attachments. I was wondering if anybody has ever tried the serrated blades for the moldboard. We are thinking about buying a few to see if they work, just thought I'd ask if anybody has had any success with them.


Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year:drinkup

[Northart]

Hello Cat 140G ,

You can get variations of the Serrated cutting edges.

Some have replacement carbide tips.

Some are just carbide segments .

Then there is just the plain serrated cutting edge.

They all work great on ice. Just watch that you don't use too much down pressure and cut the blacktop.

[Northart]

See if this scan works:

Makes for hard reading but , that's the best ,I know how to make it. :beatsme

[Northart]

Scan of the serrated cutting edges, Okay, that is the best I can make it.

[Northart]

Okay, Here's the booklet for everyone that is seeking further knowledge, about how graders work. 37 pgs.

Available from Caterpillar Dealers,

Form AEGQ0945 Printed 1997

"H Series Motor Graders Application Guide "

[Grader4me]

I don't know about the rest of you motor graders guys, but down here in Nebraska we've had alot of freezing rain this year. We've been fighting like dogs to get the ice off of our roads. We've got reclaimers or (scarifiers) on the front trying to break through, but we're tearing the crap out of the front attachments. I was wondering if anybody has ever tried the serrated blades for the moldboard. We are thinking about buying a few to see if they work, just thought I'd ask if anybody has had any success with them.


Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year:drinkup

Hi Cat140G, First thing is I'm a little curious about your front scarifiers as in what type of set up that you have. Front scarifiers that we have consists of 11 shanks set up like rippers mounted behind the front wheels. These would tear the crap out of the roads. So you can see why I am curious as to your set up.
I have alot of experience with the serrated blades. Main purpose of these blades are to cut or should I say plane an icy road. It does a couple of things for you:

1. It smooths out a rough icy road by cutting the ridges of ice etc.
2. Chews up the ice and provides better traction for motorists
3. Sand stays on the road longer after applied


If you could give me a little more information as to exactly what you want to use them for and what kind of roads I could help you out a little more, as in what type you should use


Northart...Great information that you provided

[MKTEF]

Your right Grader4me.:)

The conditions explained here is nearly imposible to solve without destroing the blacktop.
Even with a constantpressuresystem u wount get it away of the whole roadwidth.
In the wheel tracks u got tear and wear from the vehicles that your blade wount reach.

Most road grader users here around use the System 2000/3000 with carbide tips and a constantpressuresystem.
And u get a fine if u destroy the blacktop. Rules say u also got to use the butt type of tips, not the sharp ones.(Contract rules)

The others use the P300 blade. A very good solution cause it is sharpened all the time.
We get 3-4 times longer life out of them compared to the serrated ones.(steel ones, not with carbide tips like the Cat one pictured)
Only problem is u got to refit it often, because u cant have to big overhang under the mounting plate.
Its thinner and bends if u mount it with to much overhang.

Military still got a lot of the old serrated type in stock.....:(
(But i bought som to test....:D )

[Cat140G]

Some of the guys I work with call them reclaimers, some call it a scarifier. I call it a reclaimer, but there are about 40 small teeth. The attachment itself is as wide as the machine. We use them on our rock roads cutting out washboards or chuckholes, but with all the ice, we've been trying to get the roads roughed up for the school buses and joe public.:Banghead We've got plow trucks with sanders to get the blacktop roads. I'll try to get a picture of one posted, if I can figure out how to do it. Thanks a million for the help !!!

[Grader4me]

Hummm...I"m really curious to the setup that you speak of. Hurry and figure out how to post a picture! :D

[MKTEF]

Like theese babies?:)

With bits like pictured here?

U can see the different shapes of the bits. Theese are rotating as u grade.
Top left, 2.down from left and down right are the only ones allowed by the road authorities...:rolleyes:

[Dwan Hall]

do you have any information on the "ICE BUSTER" pictured? I looked into them about 10 years ago and one 7' wide to fit on a loader was just under $10,000. I have never talked to anyone that has used one or for that mater even seen one in action. I tried to contact IMAC DG buy as of yet they have not returned my calls. ( 3 calls)
Why is that it seems one has to get down on there hands and knees to beg people to take there money.

[Cat140G]

I figured it out, took a little time and some help from the better half, but here it is. The main problem we're having is keeping the front end under the machine. Too much down pressure and you're heading for the ditch. The tips of the teeth are carbide.

[Grader4me]

Hey there Cat140G. Good to see you have the pictures figgured out. Great picture by the way. Now my curiousity is satisfied...for now..:D You are right as I would refer to this set up as "reclaimers"

Very simple solution to your problem. You have the Sandvic blades in the wrong place. They should be on the moldboard. With the set up that you have, it would be very hard to control as it's set up basically like a dozer blade. Up & down is all that you have. It would work okay to cut a bunch of potholes out, but to scarfiy a road? All that it would be with that set up is a major pain in the butt.
Mounted on the moldboard you have full control. Also if they are the Sandvic blades each tooth rolls as it bites and in order for them to roll properly you have to have the right pitch/angle on the moldboard. I would imagine that mounted on the front like that you would break a lot of teeth?

By the looks of your picture these blades are only 8 feet or so wide? If so then they won't fit on your moldboard.

Why don't you just get a couple of the regular serrated blades to try out? Probably not to expensive and you can see how they work. To try and accomplish anything with the set up that you have now would be fustrating to say the least.

[Northart]

Hello Cat 140G,

I'm shocked to see someone has attempted such a setup .

That setup just allows the front end to wander anywhere it wants to go. Following the contours of the road. :( Totally inefficient for the intended purpose .

Well anyway, glad you came about seeking advice. :)

Just put some serrated cutting edges on and go to work ! :)

Also the locals just need to buy some tire chains and chain up. If this is some, real abnormal winter for you guys .

[Cat140G]

Generally, we don't get alot of ice during winter, so we are ill prepared for ice removal on rock roads. Since we are county, we have to pay close attention to the budget, and not overspend on bits and other cutting blades. These front attachments are all we've got for the time being until we can budget for better equipment. It is VERY frustrating trying to get anything done with these reclaimers. They do work good cutting out washboards and chuckholes, but that is about all they're good for. We've got scarifiers with the big ripper teeth, but we only use those when building roads. I'm gonna try to get my foreman to buy some serrated blades. Thanks for all the advice. :notworthy

[EZ TRBO]

Here in wisconsin we have not, for the last number of years really had a major problem with ice, therefore are not fully prepared to deal with it. I know ice is always a hard problem to deal with but today has been a nightmare, guys with 30+ years of experience in plows have been getting stuck, graders and even OSHKOSH's having troubles, milk trucks stuck, and TONS AND TONS of people out and about driving on super icey roads and whiteout conditions. Wish we had somthing to "cut" down through the ice like some of the things you have shown in the pics. I will try to get some pics while out plowing tomarrow, if I don't get not called again.
Trbo

[Grader4me]

I'm gonna try to get my foreman to buy some serrated blades. Thanks for all the advice

You're welcome. If you get the serrated blades let me know and I will give you a few tips on how to use them.

I know ice is always a hard problem to deal with but today has been a nightmare, guys with 30+ years of experience in plows have been getting stuck, graders and even OSHKOSH's having troubles, milk trucks stuck, and TONS AND TONS of people out and about driving on super icey roads and whiteout conditions.

Typical New Brunswick winter :Banghead

[MKTEF]

I see in your pictures something interesting...:)

Do you use mounting plates on your graders?
And quick attached steel onto them?

Looks like a lot of work to change blades with your type of setup.
We got one wedge for each feet of blade to knock out, and off they go.
Takes me 10-15 minutes to change/refit 14 feet of blades.:D

[Northart]

Hello MKTEF,

The bits are held in by snap rings to a master plate.

[MKTEF]

Nice solution on the mounting of the tips.:)

I am talking about our system for blade mounting.
Here in Scandinavia it was invented a system for mounting baldes to graders and snowplows many years ago.

When we get the graders from the produsers, they have a pattern like the ones u got.
So we mount a mounting plate on the blade, this one got bots stikking out, that fits with the holes in the blades.
Blades is then kept in place by wedges.(we bend them a bit to keep them in place)

Posted some pics:
First one shows the mounting plate.
It has holes on top that fits to the grader.
The down row has wedgebolts comming through. U then "wedge" the blades to the mounting plate.
U can see the wedge bolt and the smal steel and bolt that keeps it in place.
It goes one wedge for each feet of blades.
Normal blade lenght here around is 4 and 5 feet, u then find a combination that fits your grader, either 3x4, 2x4 +1x5 or 2x5 +1x4....

Pic 2 is of the wedge and wedgebolts, we got different wedges for different thicknes of the blades.

All our blades can be turned around, so u use one side, and turn it around and wear the side that was mounted to the top.
And as i said here it goes real quick to change blades, 10-15 mins with the sledge hammer.

Last 2 pics is of blades.

The plane ones is in 600 hardness, and thats more than any other producers..

The 300 blades i pictured, is then moved many times before its worn totaly out.

Grader4me: i bet u would love this solution when changing blades every week..:D

I'll see if i get to take som pics of the blade, showing how much it builds and some details.(sneek up on jobb this evening:rolleyes: )

[MKTEF]

One smal tripp...

Pictures from the back, front, side.
Distance from the original hole to the wedgebolt is ap 2,5 inches.
Wedge shown.

This P300 steel is rather thin, so the operater managed to bend it real bad when he attacked frozen ground.:(
It was also mounted with to much overhang. To low down.

This type of blade is always sharp as u wear it down. Just adjust it futher down when worn.
14 Wedges on this 14 feet blade.:rolleyes:

[MKTEF]

More pics:)

A little bend of the wedge and it stays in. U also mount them so that the masses presses the wedge harder into the bolt. A big stone will not knock it loose, but tighten it.(depends on which way u grade the massess...)
The wedge also got a small punch on it, so it dosent loosen without force.(shows on last pics in prev post)
U can see the original mounting bolt inside the blade. Apr 3,5 - 4 inches from the bolt to the tipp of the blade.

Curved serrated blades.

A little pile of blades.:D

Wedge bolt.

Slick blades.(u can se the wear on this one)

[Grader4me]

Wow MKTEF! I like the set up that you have. You guy's are so far advanced than the rest of us. You would think that you have bad winters over there or something:eek:

Thanks again for the detailed explainations and great pictures!

[Northart]

Hello MKTEF,

I never seen anything like that over here. :beatsme

That is a good description with your pictures.:drinkup

The need to change cutting edges quickly here, has never been a problem. Somehow there is always time available. For one man, or maybe 2-3 even, to help.

The rate of wear is highly dependant upon the Operator, and conditions.

Thanks for showing the system.:)

[MKTEF]

Thanks!:)

You know 1/3 of our country is north of the Polar circle.
Winter here can be very difficult.:mad:

And the demands for open and well maintained roads have increased the last years. Contractors have a timelimit on when to be out on the roads according to the amount of snow fallen. And a max time for when finnished clearing their area.

And on roads with more than 1500 ÅDT they demand black asphalt year around(1500 cars passing, in 24h, average over the year)

On those roads u got to have the plow scraping into the asphalt to avoid using a enormous amount of salt.:rolleyes:

For grading its a demand according to how big difference there is in the road/ice surface.
Our asphalt contains the hardest rock available, because we use steel knobs in the tires on cars and trucks. Roadmaintenance is not cheap, new asphalt in 3-5-7 years. Depending on the traffic.
The harder rock, the longer it lasts.(the asphalt)

U then understand why the blades wear out like hell when u touch the asphalt.
On gravel roads we use the same hard rock, so its wearing much there too.
U litteraly grade rocks when u work.

Thats way they invented the carbide tips systems. You save a lot of money with those systems.;)

The pile with blades pictured is for 1(2) graders, 6 months, heavy use.(spare parts for the Sudan mission)
Then one of the graders will get carbide tips.(1 without)

[Grader4me]

You know 1/3 of our country is north of the Polar circle.
Winter here can be very difficult.

I was just kidding about your winter over there as I knew it was bad.:)

On those roads u got to have the plow scraping into the asphalt to avoid using a enormous amount of salt

I hear you there. The more you can plow off the less salt you will use. So do you guys just use straight salt on your roads?

Our asphalt contains the hardest rock available, because we use steel knobs in the tires on cars and trucks. Roadmaintenance is not cheap, new asphalt in 3-5-7 years. Depending on the traffic.
The harder rock, the longer it lasts.(the asphalt)

So is this a rule in your area that all vehicles be equipped the steel knobs on the tires?

Thats way they invented the carbide tips systems. You save a lot of money with those systems.

Right on. Thanks for the info.

[MKTEF]

Nice weather:

Before 20.desember we had -4 farenheit/-20C for a couple of weeks.:confused:
21. we had 3F/-16C.
24. we had around 32F/0C.
28. we had snow
Yesterday it rained and was 40F/4C.(heavy rain washing away the sand):mad:
Today it is frozen and 21F/-6C.

You got to be real quick out and remove the snow before it starts raining.(u can get a heart attack of moving the heavy snow)
Today is nightmare because the rain has frozen tonight.
We got 2 feet/50-60cm of snow outside the roads.:)

Maintenance guys is not realy happy with this weather.

[MKTEF]

Good morning.:D

Regarding salt, the contractors have special mixers on their trucks.
Computer controlled.
You can spray plain salt, salt with little water, salt with much water.

They add the right stuff acording to outside temp and if its snow or not on the road.
Its a science nowing what to use.:eek:

All vehicles must be equiped with tires and chaines according to the weather.
If u live in a well maintained big city, u can survive with special winter tyres without knobs.
All of us others use knobs on the cars.

Trucks use knobs up front and special winter pattern at the back. Chains when real bad or in steep hills.:)
No chains, police stops u, fine and not allowed to drive on the roads.
It's a number of chains according to type of truck/trailer/tractor.
A big problem here with European drivers not familiar with chains and the winter.(Polish drivers are the worst):confused:

3 weeks ago 4 trailers blocked the main road 1/2 hour drive north of us for 5-8 hours, 50 trucks was stuck because of that.
U think the Norwegian drivers where mad? Conditions where just a little bad, but with a polish driver, slicks and no chains....:cool:

[MKTEF]

Here is a couple of spreaders.;)

The first one is a salt/water spreader. A very common modell here.
(The picture is from Germany)

The second one is of a Norwegian invention. U spray sand and hot water so that the sand melts into the ice.
Stays in the road very long, dosnt get blown or rained away.:)

[dumptrucker]

Here is a couple of spreaders.;)

The first one is a salt/water spreader. A very common modell here.
(The picture is from Germany)

The second one is of a Norwegian invention. U spray sand and hot water so that the sand melts into the ice.
Stays in the road very long, dosnt get blown or rained away.:)


Is it just plain water or is there chloride or some other agent mixed with the water? Is the water sprayed on the sand before it is applied?
thanks.

[Grader4me]

Regarding salt, the contractors have special mixers on their trucks.
Computer controlled.

These are the two models (Dickey-John) that we have for our salt/sand controls. The second picture is the newest one that we have.

10461

10462

Quite the units that you have there. I've seen pictures of the wing mounted on the body like your picture shows. That would be different to get used to.

They add the right stuff acording to outside temp and if its snow or not on the road.
Its a science nowing what to use.

It is a science. Alot of things to take into consideration in determining what to use/apply in differing conditions.

[Grader4me]

Is it just plain water or is there chloride or some other agent mixed with the water? Is the water sprayed on the sand before it is applied?
thanks.

What we use (in some areas) is water mixed with calcium chloride. There is a holding tank in front of the box. It is set up with spray nozzles that spray the salt as it comes off the conveyer. We don't do this with sand. I would imagine that the sand is sprayed before it hits the road if I'm reading it right.

[MKTEF]

Your right grader4me.:)

The heated sand spreader is a speciality.
There is a heater heating the water to 85 degree C.(near boling point).
This water is sprayed at the sand right before spreading it out. (Nozels right above rotating plate)

The sand is then heated, and freezes as it hits the ice.(heated first by the water)
So the sand freezes down/onto the ice, makes it like sanding paper.:cool:
This is the only realy functioning way when u got undercooled rain on bare asphalt.
U freeze a layer/spots with sand on top of the ice.

Normaly u mix a very smal amount of salt into the sand to avoid frezing it when it is stored in piles.
This salt has nothing to do with this spreader.
But, then u can use it both for a normal spreader and for this special one.
(Cold spreading)

This special spreader has taken many years to develope.:cool2
And is only used on what we call winterroads, roads with a icy surface through the winter.
Its also positive that u freeze down sand in the icy sole through the wintertime.
Sanded ice comes to show when u grade down into it later.:D

[Grader4me]

That is very interesting MKTEF. I can see how that would work. Wow, talk about innovation! Thanks for sharing, I'm really enjoying your posts. :)

[dumptrucker]

It's real interesting seeing how the same problems of winter are handled so differently around the world. Thanks for the great posts MKTEF.

[Grader4me]

Playing around on youtube and found this video. Kind of goes along with this topic :) Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK7-iiFku5Q

[MKTEF]

Well i get the message; The user has removed the video.:(

[MKTEF]

Regarding the posts; You are most welcome!:drinkup

Just keep on asking, and i'll answer and explain how we are doing things over here the best i can. (not that i have all the answers, but internet is a fine surce)

Wish all you grader guy's a happy and good new year!:drinkup

[Grader4me]

It was working fine last night as I checked it about 10 times. Not working now though. Sorry about that. Can one of you moderators remove the link please? I don't want anything non suitable to show in the link. Thanks!

[Grader4me]

Regarding the posts; You are most welcome!:drinkup

Just keep on asking, and i'll answer and explain how we are doing things over here the best i can. (not that i have all the answers, but internet is a fine surce)

Wish all you grader guy's a happy and good new year!:drinkup

Same to you MKTEF..Wish you and yours a happy and prosperous New Year. Don't worry we will keep on asking :)

[Cat140G]

Hello MKTEF

I was looking at your pictures of the moldboard and noticed the tire chains on the grader. I like the type of chain your running. I was wondering if that gives you a smoother ride.


These chains are on Michelin Sno-Plus radials and can't slip down into the grooves of the tire, which makes for one heck of a rough ride, especially on paved roads. I can run in 5th gear at full throttle in my old "G" without the windows falling out, but its not fun.


Have a safe and Happy New Year.

[Grader4me]

Sorry to interupt here as I know MKTEF will get back to you. If you have a cross chain on every other sidechain link instead of every fourth link then your ride would smooth out. Also keep them as tight as possible. Do you make your own chains?

[MKTEF]

Cat140G:
We use the same pattern on everything with wheels on, her in the Army.:cool:

I have 5 of them on the 3 axled Tractor pulling our 6 axled trailer.
There is no problem going at 80km/hour or 50Mph and having no problems.

Theese chains are hooked together with hooks in the wheel track, and have the same weight the whole round around the wheel, thats way u don't get any "bag" that is trown around the wheel. The slack stays behind or in front of the wheel while u drive.(in front of when reversing)

The types of chains u use will always produse a "bag", that mowes around with the wheel. And slams into the ground when going around.
Nearly always in the area where it is coupled together.
Thats way u get the humping when driving.

Another positive thing with our pattern is that u can spin with it, it dosent brake because the force is evenly distributed to many parts of the chain.
Theese never get torn apart, u wear the knobs down, and then the chain down and then the chain itself breaks by wear. Then we got a number of S hooks to repair with.(6 pr chain, when they are used, the chains are worn out)

Asphalt is not funny when driving at high speeds, they tend to give to little friction to asphalt.
U literly drive on steel knobs.:rolleyes:

Take a look at post nr 6 at this thread, i've posted some info on our chains there.

Here is some pictures.
First is of our Grove 760E, its -20C/ -4F and it started directly.Cummins QSB.

A closeup of the chains on the Grove, another type, 10mm this one.0,39 inch
Note: its 29,5x25 on this little baby.:D

[Grader4me]

Cat140G wrote:I would like to double-up on the cross chain and run one every other link on the side chain, but there are 11 other graders that all use the same set-up. And of course, being county government, working with the taxpayers money, we have to be careful about what we spend.


My foreman told me today that it would not be cost efficient, because our winters here in southeast Nebraska are generally not that bad. We do have to build our own chains, but only when the side chains get weak or break. The set of chains on my grader are almost 8 years old now, just keep replacing cross chains whenever they break.

I'll keep working on the bosses and try to get something accomplished, but I'm not gonna hold my breath :Banghead


Wow, you guy's are on a really tight budget! Maybe your foreman should get in the grader with you when you are beating/thrashing/vibrating down the road. Better yet maybe he should also come with you when you are trying to get traction out there on the ice with worn out old chains.

Sorry for the rant as I'm sure your foreman has to answer to his superiors as well, and he probably has a tight budget to work from. I can relate somewhat as there has been many things over the years that I've had to fight for to make my job easier and safer.

[Tegian]

Pictures of a grader with a sidewing mounted snowblower: http://www.***********.net/viewtopic.php?t=5536&highlight=&sid=5c7b6bed56f804e155c7103112a8b061
Apparantly a trial to combat snow drifts on a road above the tree line in north western Sweden.

[Grader4me]

I want one...make it two :drinkup

[MKTEF]

I mean that this is a snowblower made for use behind/on the side of a farmers tractor.:)

They use them here in the late winter to clear the snow along the roads so that the melting snow gets into the ditches instead of into the road.
A ditch blower we call it.:)

Thats the reason for the cardan axle going in from behind. It's normaly connected to the PTO behind the tractor.

A real nice setup on the grader though.:)

On the high mountain passes here, they use a snowblower on a wheelloader and removes the snow out on the road shoulders.
Painstaking job though, u drive 90 degrees to the road and blow away a smal part of the drift on the side. Moving along the road slowly.....:mad:
A smart solution on the grader!

New roads here in harse conditions is build above the terrain so that the wind blows the snow off the road. Snow then builds up on the sides, instead of on the road.
Negative is that if the winds get to strong, u get blown of the road.
On one of the mountains the snowclearing crew went from 10-12 down to 3 persons after the new road was built.
The big snowblower was removed, and they only got one wheelloader and a couple of trucks with plows.:)

[Grader4me]

Playing around on youtube and found this video. Kind of goes along with this topic :) Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK7-iiFku5Q

Found it again..if it lasts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mQ5SHPXuLA

[MKTEF]

Here is some pics of snowremoval with a Vammas RG 181.;)

Theese guy's where working behind our building when i arrived at work this morning.
Not so happy, cause they haven't asked us to do the grading.:mad:
It's my job! And we got 2 graders ready with chains and serrated edges.

But what can u doo, they where rented in to do the job.:beatsme

U can see he has changed some of the bits, but not all.;)
This guy is driving on Nokia tires, specially made for graders.
A well maintained grader, belonging to one of the local contractors.:)

Here is a movie of the work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e_wGYsi0Qc

Yesterday i spent 4 hours removing 1 foot of ice around the guardpost in the main entrance.:)
Talk about laisy guards, they dont remove any snow around their feet at all.
Just builds up over time. :mad:
We found asphalt all over, but where realy surprised by the amount of ice.
Worst place it looked like a curbed stone edge, but where ice.:eek:

[roadrunner]

Anyone have Capital I one-way snowplow and post-less wings out there?
I have there system on my 160H and it works great!
Check this video out!
http://www.capitali.ca/snowwing.wmv
http://www.capitali.ca/onewayspeedplow.html

Definitely built for areas with alot of snow!

[Grader4me]

Nice plow and wing setup. The only thing that I don't agree with is the statement (in the plow video) that the one way will out perform the vee plow. Each type of plow is made to do different jobs plowing snow. Sure a one way will out perform a vee plow doing what it is designed to do, but when opening up a road, or pushing back heavy snow banks, then its the vee plow that will out perform. A one way would simply not take the grief.

I really like the tilt feature on the one way and wing. He seemed to have a little trouble getting his wing set right for benching;) Great videos though..thanks for sharing :)

[roadrunner]

Grader4me;
Yes you are right V-plow for sure for opening roads but this one-way will definitely handle alot!For regular road maintence it works awesome.Wing seems heavy at first until get used to it.Sure works good for me this system.I'm sure others would agree.

[Grader4me]

First I should have welcomed you to the forum :) Good to see another grader operator here, and as well has experience plowing snow...

So how do the wheels work compared to the conventional plow shoes? and will they last? How to you like the tilt on the plow and wing? Sorry for so many questions but I'm a curious little fella..

[MKTEF]

Welcome to the forum roadrunner.:drinkup

Well, i must say that i am not impressed by the plow.:my2c
Looking at the videos it shows that the plow is only roling the snow out to the side.
Seems to be no throw out and up.
Some light snow is drifting, but the heavy/hard snow is rolled out to the side.
On one of the shots it shows that the snows is not lifted up to the corner/side of the plow.
A 3 feet edgde and the snow will still be on the road, not trown up and out to the side.

Regarding tilt, am i sceptical to it on a plow like that. But if u got adjustable angle sideways u will need tilt to get it down to the road.;)
Tilt might also help getting the snow move right when plowing at different speeds. Different speeds demand a different design on the plow.
Around here u never make any adjustements to the angle on a plow like that, u only check it trough the season. Plows is designed to perform optimal at the right angle.

Wheels will work very well if they are constructed right.:)
All trucks plowing at high speed and on long streches use wheels here.
Those doing much cornering/turning with the plow down, use skids.
Wheels on the main roads, and skids in the smal communitys.
And its easy to change from skids to wheels, a bolt and a snap pin.:)

Just my:my2c

Local road authorities here are right now helped by us.:D
Its so much snow, that they aint able to throw the snow out/up over the edge.(6+ feet high)
They use their own graders on the sides dragging the snow back into the road, and we drive behind it with a snowblower throwing the snow far out in the ditch.;)
I'll ask for some pics from our teamleader out there...(for u guys);)

[Grader4me]

Regarding tilt, am i sceptical to it on a plow like that. But if u got adjustable angle sideways u will need tilt to get it down to the road.
Tilt might also help getting the snow move right when plowing at different speeds. Different speeds demand a different design on the plow.
Around here u never make any adjustements to the angle on a plow like that, u only check it trough the season. Plows is designed to perform optimal at the right angle

I think the reason that the plow is not throwing the snow the way it should is because the plow is tilted ahead. By laying the plow ahead a bit it increases cutting action, but won't throw the snow as good. I think if the operator had it laid back we would have seen quite a difference.

The power angle on the one way plow doesn't make much sense to me, unless it brings the plow around square. Then it would be good for pushing back turning places etc. Looking at the video it only shows it coming around a bit.:beatsme

[roadrunner]

Just to let you guys know I definetly hear what you are saying about the one-way and wing. I will tell you how I plow with it.

One-way I pre-set height with the lift chains(also it has rod and spring downpressure).Tilt is rolled right ahead for maximum cutting.Only time I roll plow back is when snowtrapping or ridging in fields.Angle is set to max. width for doing roads and I will only increase more angle if machine is powering out from to deep of snow.The wheels work great instead of the shoes and do not throw rocks.I still have the same front cutting edge on since purchased in 2006.With my old one-way with the shoes you were steady replacing edges and shoes.The best feature about the one-way is that it will throw the snow back down and not back into your windshield/face.The curve and pitch is right for our application here.
I see why you guys have concerns from the video because the operator is going way to slow to get rid of the snow.(YOU HAVE TO GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN) or should we say 8 th gear-47kph!! In the 160H if I drop down a gear to 7th there is 17kph slower difference.That is when you get ridging on the shoulders and have nothing but snow problems all winter.( I NEED TO GO FAST!!!:D:D:D)

Wing; The wing is rolled ahead all the way to slide over any obsticals because we have had issues with it rolled back it seemed to cut and be more aggressive on the road shoulders.The wing slide is run about 18-24 inches extended not all the way out to better throw the snow that come off from the one-way.Wing will shoot snow depending on conditions about 30-50 feet away from the grader leaving no ridge!:)

I know the video did not really give a good showing.Must of been the operator!TEE HEE!
All I know is "THE FASTER U GO THE FURTHER THE SNOW!!":cool:
"just my 2 cents"
Thanks for the welcome guys!

[Grader4me]

Thanks for the explaination roadrunner. With our one way plows the tilt has to be adjusted manually. Alot of our operators on the truck plows will have the plows tilted ahead a bit. The reason for this as said will provide better cutting action as they plow the main roads. When there is a build up that they can't handle, then the grader cuts it with the moldboard. The only problem that I have with tilting the plow ahead, is that some go to excessive and roll it ahead to far. Then it becomes dangerous as you probably know.

I like the plow that you are running and the power tilt. How far will it angle?



The wing is rolled ahead all the way to slide over any obsticals because we have had issues with it rolled back it seemed to cut and be more aggressive on the road shoulders


That is exactly why I would like the tilt feature on the wing.

[iron kid]

do you ever put chain on backhoe? the guys here put them on the front tires. I would think that they would go on the back
we have them on the back of one of our skid steers 185 NH work great

[Ray Welsh]

Found it again..if it lasts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mQ5SHPXuLA

Thanks for the great video. Your panelbeaters must be kept very busy......................C ya........Ray

[Construct'O]

do you ever put chain on backhoe? the guys here put them on the front tires. I would think that they would go on the back
we have them on the back of one of our skid steers 185 NH work great

Around here they are all old backhoes(2 wheel drive) so they only have one choice the back:D:usa

[Cat140G]

Thanks for video Grader4Me. That about sums it up, people these days just don't want to slow down. :Pointhead

[Diagonal Brace]

Does anyone run a Weldco Beales postless/mastless snow wing? It is similar to the Capitol I featured previously. We are considering one and would appreciate any feedback. Thanks:canada

[dumptrucker]

Getting ready for winter. Going to be putting on the front tower of the wing on thurs. We are not putting the blade on it until we need it, doesn't take long with the front wing tower on to put the blade on.

[Alberta]

Hi Diagonal brace.

We have 4 of the Weldco mastless, on 14M and 2 low mast Imac. The Weldco still have a problem with the push pole cracking at the cylinder mount braces and they don't pull up as close to the cab when you "park" it....meaning you need a wide door to get into the shop. The front hinge plate has been a weak point too. They bent fairly easily. The rear hitch on the pole tend to twist a bit too. You'll lose some bench height but the added visibility is nice.

[Diagonal Brace]

Thanks for the input Alberta. Still have not hung a wing on it yet; interesting feedback about the Weldco. The park position would definitely be a factor when operating in traffic and near obstacles. How are the IMAC's holding up?
Anybody else using a different brand specifically on a Volvo 900 series?

[Vantage_TeS]

Well 2.5 hours of sleep yet and I'll be firing up the 770CH for a 4am run at snow removal. Haven't plowed roads before, I have 1.5 wipers (the only one that really works is the little on on the left bottom window) and I just got home from a 4 hour ordeal of getting the darn thing from the far corner of the city up to the district shop I'll be running out of.

It's been snowing since 8:30am, looks like around 13 cm already and high winds blowing it all over. Should be a longgggggggg day tomorrow.

Bed time, videos to follow.

[Burnout]

Well 2.5 hours of sleep yet and I'll be firing up the 770CH for a 4am run at snow removal. Haven't plowed roads before, I have 1.5 wipers (the only one that really works is the little on on the left bottom window) and I just got home from a 4 hour ordeal of getting the darn thing from the far corner of the city up to the district shop I'll be running out of.

It's been snowing since 8:30am, looks like around 13 cm already and high winds blowing it all over. Should be a longgggggggg day tomorrow.

Bed time, videos to follow.

Hahahaha I'm goin to the snow dump tonight at 1am, just getting ready to leave. I get to run an 8N pushin up snow yay for me.

[catd8t]

im waitting for snow over here in montreal 2-4 cm monday and 20-25 wenesday. my grader is all ready. i hate plowing in the winter but i pays the bills and i like it better then waitting for snow me the guys have been playing monoply for 2 days now and i can tell you that im not winning so bored cant even drink any beers cause there s some fear that a drunk grader operator could be in some ways hazardous. shows what they know hahaha

[Greg]

Starting the wait for 3 inches tonight to tomorrow morning and an additional 6 inches or better for tuesday. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! Hope we get enough to make it worth crankin' up the Oshkosh.

[Vantage_TeS]

Yehaw! (3:45am)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2663/4168337100_fe5a683f00_b.jpg

[ovrszd]

We've got 4" on the ground, snowing steadily, expecting another 12", 40-50 mph winds tonight and tomorrow morning. I chained up yesterday but waiting to put the plow on, I'm guessing I'll need it. Our ground is frozen and the snow is very light so it'll all blow onto the roadways. I prefer to push at night so am hoping to run all night Wednesday.

[Greg]

Hey ovrszd,

I am sure you will get your wish.

It is just starting here we are expecting 11 to 13 inches here with the same wind.
No frost in the ground here to speak of though. I can usually get by without chains on the Oshkosh (fingers and toes crossed) so I don't have to put them on. Plows on both trucks and ready to go.

[ovrszd]

My Grader isn't all wheel drive, I won't try it without chains. My area is hilly, easier to chain up than to fight it all night. I have 17.5 tires and with all four chains on there's never an issue of traction, just the way I like it. :)

[Greg]

ovrszd,

What kind of grader? I have a Cat No. 12 here. No all wheel drive on it either. I would not want to try it in any substantual snow with out chains either. That is why I bought the Oshkosh. Have some hilly areas here I have to deal with too so the
Big Ol' Girl is worth her weight in Gold. I have several roads that lay straight East and West also which will be a real mess when this one blows in with the wind coming with it.

Hey, that is why we get paid the big bucks, right?

[Iron Man]

http://www.barnoneauction.com/inventory.php?aid=88&lid=33285


Is this Grader AWD? It's for sale...

[Greg]

Appears to be a nice machine but looks like no front wheel drive on it.

[Iron Man]

Didn't think so.. did a search for 14H's at auction and I think there's only two in the U.S. - this being one of them.

[Iron Man]

Didn't think so. Did a search online for 14H's and found only two in U.S. auction sales.. you'd think with this economy there'd be more

[Iron Man]

Hey Mods.. you can delete #137... I'm new at this

[ovrszd]

ovrszd,

What kind of grader? I have a Cat No. 12 here. No all wheel drive on it either. I would not want to try it in any substantual snow with out chains either. That is why I bought the Oshkosh. Have some hilly areas here I have to deal with too so the
Big Ol' Girl is worth her weight in Gold. I have several roads that lay straight East and West also which will be a real mess when this one blows in with the wind coming with it.

Hey, that is why we get paid the big bucks, right?

I'm spoiled. My Township owns a two year old JD770D.

Our wind started from the East and drifted a little. Then about 2 a.m. it switched to the Northwest and is blowing steadily at 30mph. Supposed to blow all day. We ended up with about 8" of snow. I'll try to nap all day and then start pushing this evening when the wind lays. It'll be an all nighter and I'll definitely use the V-Plow. The snow is light so it'll push easy but that also makes it blow easy. It'll all be piled in my roadways. :)

[Greg]

Started at 8:00 PM lasst night here. just got done 15 minutes ago it is 4:30 PM going back out a 9:00 PM tonight. Got a whopping 18 inches here. Getting cold and wind is going to start up now. Hope it won't blow a lot since snow was wet and heavy and a real bear to push.

[EZ TRBO]

In a 36 hour span spent 32 hours in the ol 772 pushing snow, first few hours on wednesday I had the one way on, so nice to be able to take the entire road way. Once the sun started comming up the wind started as well and after fixing a blown hyd. line I switched over to the Vee plow and started hitting our bad spots, as of yesterday afternoon I had everything on the 72 miles(144 lane miles) pushed back and bad spots shoved and shelfed. Snow was very slick under, as the ground was not froze yet, so the first bit of snow melted then froze leaving an ice layer. Got into one deal that I was lil hesitant about, plow truck slid across the road and was down in the ditch, i cleaned all the snow away in front of him and when i started back up i slid the grader down in, had to drive down the ditch for about 400 feet for I could find a place to drive up out of. Had another truck come out drop some chips and then i pulled the truck right out. Other than that the last two days went trouble free.

Greg we had about 15 or so in SW part, what did yall get in your neck of the woods?


Trbo

[Greg]

Where are you SW what? We got 17 inches where I am at. Wet heavy stuff. I started Tuesday and noon went till about 3:00 PM, back at 8:00 PM until 5:00 PM Wednesday, back out at 8:00 PM till about 3:00 AM Thursday. Oshkosh out most of the night. Then I got on a plane Thrusday night, flew to Pittsburgh, Pa to load a machine I have going to South Africa, came back Friday night and collapsed. Heck of a week. I am getting to old for this kind of stuff.

[MKTEF]

Here u go guy's
Winter Grading in Tromsø in the 60's. 400km north of the polar circle.
You can see the advantages of 6wd...

YouTube - Brøyting i Tromsø (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acQC4wmJwIk)

I liked the snow plows on the truck.
But then the town is famous for its nonexsisting areas for snow. Everything has to be hauled and dumped in the ocean.

[Grader4me]

Really neat video MKTEF. Looks like the grader is pushing the snow from the side roads onto the main street, and the truck is carrying it down to the water to get rid of it. As you said there is no place to store the snow, so this must be one of the ways to get rid of it. Thanks for sharing..very interesting...

[MKTEF]

Liked the video myself.
Typical 60's; working fast, and hey how its going, flag is waving in the wind, and look at the nice looking boys!
We even did have US style trucks back then!
Dad had a Volvo 485 as the one in the film.
The grader did a impressive job, to be from that era too!

[windrow]

anyone know if you can use cables instead of chains?

[Grader4me]

Welcome to HEF windrow! We have lightweight cable chains for our plow trucks. They are for the front wheel to aid in steering during icey conditions. Once off the ice they take them off. They wouldn`t last very long on the drive wheels.
I`ve never heard tell of any they make for graders, if so they would have to be rugged.

I take it you are inquiring about chains,cables for the wheels..