Get ready for some "NEW, IMPROVED" reg's...

[LowBoy]

I learn something new every day. I always said, "the day I quit learning, I'd better get out of this arena and do something less dangerous"...
Today was yet another learning experience, for me anyways.
I leave home this morning with a 1989 Peterbilt rear-discharge cement mixer chained down, as I usually do, over-chained. I started out a little higher than normal, at 13'9" tall to the top of the hopper.(Not a life-threatening situation, the hopper's made of thin steel, so even if I did boff something up there, the hopper would just be shaped a little differently afterwards, that's all...)
Upon entering the NYS Thruway to head south to Brooklyn, NY (Wooof...:Banghead ), I noticed I tripped the height detector in the EZ Pass booth. No big deal...I stopped at the very next service plaza, get my wrenches out, and drop my ride height at the leveling valve down low enough to be 13' 6"...All set to go.
I follow the directions given to me over the cellphone by a guy named "Dominic" (go figure,) right to a tee. At the intersection of Flushing Ave. and Rust St., (appropriately named after the dealer that bought these used mixers, I believe,) I have to make a HARD left turn over a bridge with granite curbing about 24" high. I tried 3 times, but my little 53' lowbed just wouldn't cooperate with the front half, so I decided to back up again, and take a RIGHT instead, go find a spot to do an about face, and head over to Dominic's place. I am literally 100 feet from his doorstep at that point, but couldn't make the swing, unless I pulled a JB Hunt or Swift manuver and ran the 2 foot high curbs over, demo'ing whatever was in the way, including the 3 rims and tires. I opted not to go that route today.
I take the right, and 100 yards down the street I see a perfect "island" with a diner in the middle of it, so I'm planning to make a right, a right, and a left and be pointed in the proper direction. WRONG...
As I approach the stoplight to make my first right, there was a guy in a very bright, seemingly flourescent orange jumpsuit, signaling me to come straight to him, up against the curb. My first analysis of this deal is, "geez, what a nice guy for being in Brooklyn...he's helping me out..." Then, reality set in that he's not a nice guy from Brooklyn...he's The Man With The Plan...an official NYS D.O.T. inspector.This ain't good...
Now here I am, 150 yards away from where this mixer is going, and me, "Mr. Lucky", has to walk into a DOT check, in the freakin' city of all places!:Banghead
I did luck out with this guy, though. He was a peach. He asked for ever piece of paperwork I could imagine, including my logbook which wasn't finished from Tuesday's workday yet, but being I left from Troy, NY (so he thought, as it says on the door anyways,) he let me slide on the logbook. We did a level 2 inspection, which is just a walkaround, lights, wipers, horn, etc. without the creeper.
Came out with NO violations...nice. But...he taught me something new today. As of this month, there's a WHOLE new set of securement regulations coming into effect. ANYTHING not secured down to a truck or trailer, including, but not limited to, the very chains and binders that hold stuff in place, MUST be secured themselves. In other words, no more throwing your chains and binders in the well, (which by the way, is a factory standard item on this 2007 Fontaine Specialized trailer I pull,) and even a single 4X4 block must be secured in some fashion, or you're gonna get whacked. He let me go on it, but suggested I build a cover with hinges to keep the chains and binders from "jumping out" of the well.
Now I don't know about anyone else on this forum, but the only time I have ever personally seen any chains and binders fall out of the well of a lowbed, is when the truck was capsized in a ditch somewhere. I carry 3/8" and 1/2" chains and screw binders, and pile them all on top of each other, and in my mind, if you ever hit a bump hard enough to have those things jump up out of the 10" deep well they're riding in, you're gonna have a lot bigger problems with your equipment than just loose chains...probably gonna snap the truck in half once you land, eh?
In any event, the enforcers of the new laws will be writing tickets for "unsecured securement" devices from now on. The weight of the objects are not sufficient securement in itself, according to the inspector.
I left happily from my new lease on life after DOT, and utilized his and a city cop's official authority to get me backed out into the 4 way intersection, and make my right, right, and finally, the left that I had so innocenty planned on making, 45 minutes prior to all this trauma.
I got to Dominic's place, broke the trailer down, drove the mixer off, put it back together and left the fair city of New York I think, just a wee bit wiser than I entered today...:wink2
I just thought I'd share that tidbit of information with you folks, so fire up the mig welders men, get those pieces of diamondplate cut to size, and use those electric glue machines to stick a set of hinges to the plate, and finally to the trailers, because Beufort T. Justice WILL be looking hard at your unsecure securement devices from this point on...
Thanx.

[2004F550]

Nice post, thanks for the heads up.

[Steve Frazier]

Unsecured load is a $350 fine in NY, don't ask how I know that.:oops

[Lashlander]

I am literally 100 feet from his doorstep at that point, but couldn't make the swing, unless I pulled a JB Hunt or Swift manuver and ran the 2 foot high curbs over, demo'ing whatever was in the way, including the 3 rims and tires.

Now I don't know about anyone else on this forum, but the only time I have ever personally seen any chains and binders fall out of the well of a lowbed, is when the truck was capsized in a ditch somewhere.

:lmao :lmao

Lowboy, Your trying to use common sense here and you should know better!:yup

[surfer-joe]

You got guts hauling anything into that city on a loboy, I'll say that! I hate to even walk around there, let alone drive something.

I'd like to have a dollar for every chain, boomer, ratchet strap, tarp, tarp strap, piece of rope, cribbing, belting, and other pieces of junk I've seen coming off a loboy over the years. I can't say much tho, I dropped a 20000 pound P&H counterweight off a loboy once right in the middle of the road. Ahem, but that was a long time ago you see.

In other words, I wish drivers didn't have to get ticketed for leaving stuff loose on the trailer bed or in an open well, but I've seen people get hurt when the stuff comes off, and have suffered damage myself when a piece of 4x4 came off a trailer and went thru my windshield some years ago. Good thing my girlfriend wasn't with me, I'd a had to get a new one after that.

I used to rag on my loboy driver in Bakersfield cause he would leave his chains and boomers loose on the bed. He was a lazy cuss and he'd put everything away for a few days, then start leaving it out again. DOT nailed him in Wyoming for it, which surprised me as that state doesn't have many DOT people out on the roads. Just lucky I guess.

Anyway, it's better to put it up proper, than take a chance getting someone hurt or killed.

[Grader4me]

Thanks for this information Lowboy!

[LowBoy]

You got guts hauling anything into that city on a loboy, I'll say that! I hate to even walk around there, let alone drive something.

Anyway, it's better to put it up proper, than take a chance getting someone hurt or killed.

I wouldn't refer to it as "guts," surfer-joe, it's from a little lower down in the anatomy that I have, and I have less of what's required between the ears I think.:D

As far as the guy you referred to leaving stuff on the deck loose, yes, he is lazy, and yes, deserving of any violation that comes along in my opinion. I admit, if I'm just going a couple of miles down the street to pick something back up once I've just unloaded one, I might be guilty of leaving 2 chains and binders right up against the gooseneck to ride the distance, but normally I'd hook the hooks on the gooseneck itself anyways to ensure their trip.It's just not a good habit to get into.

What is really bothering me about the "new" regulations just coming out, is the DOT inspector that I was visiting with yesterday says he's going to be at a seminar in Albany, NY soon for a refresher course in load securement through his agency. It would be fair to say, at the very least, that everyone interested should be eligible to attend such a meeting, but unfortunately, he didn't invite me. That means that these inspectors are going to leave that seminar much smarter than they are now, and us poor, innocent cusses that actually perform the task of securing our loads down, are going to be in the dark until it hits us in the wallets as usual. What a concept, huh?:beatsme

One of our other drivers got into a DOT check last week out in western NY state, and being a cop himself, tends to abide by the rules 100%, which is fine. He was told that from now on, (just in Western New York, not everywhere,) if he was to use a binder hooked to the flange of the trailer beam, and a chain hooked into a track pad as usual when the binder itself won't reach from beam to track pad, that they will only give him 50% of the device rating for that.I wonder if they're going to draw a line of demarkation across the grass and the roads somewhere out in western NY state to let us know when we have to stop and change the way we've chained the loads down at that point to avoid a fine? What do you think they'd use to draw the line...spraypaint...? or maybe they'll be nice, and put down that sticky fluorescent highway tape so we know we've crossed the new securement regulations line...:naughty :laugh

[Grader4me]

8. Securement of Chains and other Equipment
Can chains, load binders and other equipment be hung from racks or hooks on the vehicle?

Comments: Yes, provided they are firmly immobilized or secured on or within the vehicle by
structures of adequate strength, blocking, bracing, dunnage or dunnage bags, shoring bars, tiedowns or
a combination of these. Extra chain and securement equipment are considered to be cargo for the purposes of NSC Standard 10.I just looked this up. Notice the section that I highlighted. I don't think this rule is new. Maybe the officer in question is just catching up to it? If the chain & binders are considered cargo then it has to be secured as such? :beatsme

[nedly05]

Thanks for the heads up bro, I now know I have some fab work to do so my mexican jumping chains don't bound off my trailer!!!

[mflah87]

They make it harder and harder to make a buck today. This is only going to raise prices because now lowbed companies are going to figure this into their price raising lowbed moves, which will raise construction project prices. It never ends.

[Ford LT-9000]

In the Republic of British Columbia you need to secure everything even thats been enforced for over a year or more. Lowbedders used to leave their chains and cinches on the deck in the center its not allowed anymore. Any blocking used to be thrown in between the frame rails not anymore. Chain wells where you could throw chains into needs a lid over it.

If you have a hanging rail for chains you need to have a guard over top to prevent the chains or cinches from bouncing off. I never heard of a hook bouncing off the hanging rail. Even headache racks on the lowbed tractor needs a cover over the chain hanging bar.

Talking to a guy that works for a excavation contractor the other day he got pinched for not having his blocking chained down to the trailer. It was two 6x6 blocks 16 inches long he got a insecure load fine.

The fine for out of adusted brakes is 138 dollars per wheel the insecure fine is 288.

These rules and regs are desinged by people with no clue about trucking. The fines are just a cash cow for the gov't.

[crash935]

Supposedly they are adding some new rules for Vans also. Picked up a load where i had to run some of the skids down the center. Another driver watched it get loaded and told me that they are going to start checking for blocking on the floor to prevent the skids from moving around in the trailer.

Cant wait to get another load of, dripping with juice pigskins, loaded down the center, "whats that officer, you need to check in my trailer, sure go ahead, but i aint opening the door for you".

[Ford LT-9000]

The only trucks the DOT inspectors don't inspect is garbage trucks.

[LowBoy]

I just looked this up. Notice the section that I highlighted. I don't think this rule is new. Maybe the officer in question is just catching up to it? If the chain & binders are considered cargo then it has to be secured as such? :beatsme

I have a sneaky suspicion that the Canadian reg's. are slightly different than U.S. in this regard. If it were the case, then these U.S trailer manufacturers such as Fontaine, Talbert, Rogers, Eager Beaver, Etnyre, etc., would not offer an optional chain well built in at the factory without a proper covering device to be compliant. They have to abide by the FMCSA regulations before we, the end users, have to.

I was stopped several years ago by a numb city cop who was disguised as a wanna-be DOT man. I had a brand spanking new Fruehauf triaxle aluminum tanker behind me. He stopped me because it had amber lights in the rear as turn signals, and said it was illegal to have amber back there, and fined me for it. I told him he might better read a little more into it, because every trailer I have seen coming from the same factory as this one has amber directionals in them. He said that the state of New York was involved in a legal battle as we spoke with Isuzu Motor Co. due to the fact that they build trucks with amber lenses, and NY state doesn't allow them in the rear.

The Federal D.O.T. inspector that I spoke with later that month agreed with me that the cop doing that inspection needs to stop drinking so much.:drinkup

The moral to the story: none of them agree on anything, and it's all about the almighty dollar generated for the authority in control. Bottom line, friends.

[Ford LT-9000]

There are all kinds of stupid regulations now that I haven't kept track on.

These new regulations are to make the gov't look good they think they are trying to make trucking safer. The public has this idea that all trucks are bad and dangerous when 90% of the truck accidents are caused by some freaking idiot in a 4 wheeler cutting off a truck that can't stop on a dime.

There wouldn't be problems if companies provided proper training, pay decent wages so you get people with a brain in their head.

I also think the DOT/CVI inspectors should know who pays their wages if there is no trucking there is no work for the inspectors. Some of these idiots get on a power trip trying to prove themselves.

[Grader4me]

I have a sneaky suspicion that the Canadian reg's. are slightly different than U.S. in this regard. If it were the case, then these U.S trailer manufacturers such as Fontaine, Talbert, Rogers, Eager Beaver, Etnyre, etc., would not offer an optional chain well built in at the factory without a proper covering device to be compliant. They have to abide by the FMCSA regulations before we, the end users, have to.

You could be right lowboy, but I was always under the impression that the U.S. was ahead of us when it came to these regulations. Here (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-security/safety-initiatives/cargo/cs-manual-chap1.htm) is a link to the FMCSA regulations concerning securment of the cargo securing equipment.

The following conditions must exist before a driver can operate a commercial motor vehicle and a carrier can require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle.

The commercial motor vehicle's cargo must be properly distributed and adequately secured.
The commercial motor vehicle's structure and equipment must be secured:
Tailgate
Doors
Tarpaulins
Spare tire
Other equipment used in the vehicle's operation
Cargo securing equipment.This is quite vague, but all that I can find in the regulations. Can anyone add to this? Officers could have a field day with that.

[digger242j]

Officers could have a field day with that.

Is this a surprise?

[Grader4me]

Is this a surprise?

No, It's not a surprise. Maybe I'm going overboard refering to all the rules and regulations as well, but I am still trying to understand it. When they (CVE Officers)say we need this and we need that, you have to have it this way or that way, then I would hope that they can provide the documentation to back it up. If not, then their day in court would not be a good one.
I am not out to try and prove anyone wrong on what they are saying. I just wish that the government would get their act together and provide accurate , documented rules and regulations that is clear to them and clear to us.
The written rule for securement of the extra chains etc. is so ill written, how would you interpret it? :beatsme So much more could be added to this to help clarify.
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place for more detailed information on cargo securement?

[LowBoy]

The written rule for securement of the extra chains etc. is so ill written, how would you interpret it? :beatsme So much more could be added to this to help clarify.

I'm in agreement with that statement, Grader4me. My only initial discrepancy on this issue is the "securing of extra cargo securing equipment." I'm really struggling with the fact that the inspectors that are doing their jobs, keeping things "safe", are missing the mark on the core issue of extra cargo seruring devices placed into an O.E.M., factory built storage compartment designed for this sole purpose. I will post some pics later on to show in living color what I am referring to. The chain wells in the trailer I use every day are 10" deep X 24" long X 3' wide, with a heavy diamond mesh screen bottom to keep dirt and stuff from collecting in it. The simple laws of physics and gravity will always prevail in this situation. Just a few miles of traveling, and when you go to remove the chains and binders from the well, they're usually so tangled into themselves from the settlement that you have to struggle to get them apart again.That's MY beef with the securement rules..."The continuous lack thereof, of simple common sense..."
Obviously leaving loose chains, binders and/or blocks on a level deck trailer by themselves is not kosher. But placing them in the intended storage area in my opinion, is...
In short, it's probably not worth wasting any sleep over voicing our opinions though, because they will still have the last say in the matter.:Banghead

[digger242j]

When?
The cargo must remain secured on or in the transporting vehicle:

Under all conditions that could reasonably be expected to occur in normal driving.When a driver is responding in all emergency situations, EXCEPT when there is a crash.


How Well Must Cargo be Secured?
So that it does not:


Leak
Spill
Blow off the vehicle
Fall from the vehicle
Fall through the vehicle
Otherwise become dislodged from the vehicle
Shift upon or within the vehicle to such an extent that the vehicle's stability or maneuverability is adversely affected.

It seems to me that the case could be made that leaving your chains and binders in the well, under the specified "normal" conditions, they will never cause you to be in violation of the rest of the rule.

That having been said...


It seems to me, that the way rule is being enforced, you could be written up for a single rubber bungee laying loose in your well. :beatsme

[Ford LT-9000]

Lets put it this way when the CVI inspectors were in the area doing a roadside inspection they pulled a carpenter over he had a couple 2x4s in the back of his pickup they were 10 footers and they overhanged the tailgate. The tailgate was up the bed is a 8 foot anyhow the guy got pinched for a unsecured load.

I'am glad the inspectors budget got cut back and they don't do regular visits to the rural areas. They are nothing but a pain in the backside. They come to a area that has no major accidents caused from faulty trucks or insecured loads falling off trucks. They come here they get a living out allowance expenses paid its a holiday for them costs the tax payers thousands.

95% of the fines they give out to the commercial trucks is for very minor things. It is almost non existant that they find a local truck that is so bad its condemn on the side of the road. If the inspector can't find anything major wrong they will right you up for a burn't out dash light my favorite is the ripped drivers seat. Another for dump trucks is mud flaps if they are not within spec you got a fine.

The RCMP (Police) has inspector power any time tow trucks are at a accident scene pulling a wreck out of the ditch the officer is looking at the tow truck for anything he can fine the driver for. One of the tow truck operators got pinched for having a drive tire that was worn past legal limits. The driver knew that had new tires going onto the truck the next day but he got a fine anyways.

Steering box leaks is another one that the inspectors get people on. In the regs it says if the steering box leaks the truck is condemned untill fixed. Nobody has a definate answer on a leak it could be only a drip once in a awhile but to a inspector thats enough to put you out of service.

Brakes if your out of adjustement a little bit you got a fine even if you have automatic slacks. If they stroke too far you got a fine. If you get a 3/4 inch hand pull the inspector says its out legal hand pull is 1/2 inch.

I was always told don't get mouthy to the inspector if you do your asking for it. If you know something is wrong with the truck and its minor tell the inspector or second option is plead dumb.

Everything is becoming so over regulated it makes doing business even harder. The Forestry industry has so many regulations now companies have to send their employees for training every month. Other regulations cost the company thousands of dollars which increases the cost to buy lumber.

It is gov't idiots making up idiotic rules and nothing we can do about it :mad:

[Grader4me]

I will post some pics later on to show in living color what I am referring to. The chain wells in the trailer I use every day are 10" deep X 24" long X 3' wide, with a heavy diamond mesh screen bottom to keep dirt and stuff from collecting in it. The simple laws of physics and gravity will always prevail in this situation. Just a few miles of traveling, and when you go to remove the chains and binders from the well, they're usually so tangled into themselves from the settlement that you have to struggle to get them apart again.That's MY beef with the securement rules..."The continuous lack thereof, of simple common sense..."

:yup I know exactly what you are refering to about the chain wells. I am also in agreement that this should be an acceptable means of securement. I'm going to do some digging on this side of the border to see what I can find out.


It seems to me, that the way rule is being enforced, you could be written up for a single rubber bungee laying loose in your well.

Your right...but just because an officer calls it a certain way, doesn't always mean he is going to win the case.

Brakes if your out of adjustement a little bit you got a fine even if you have automatic slacks. If they stroke too far you got a fine. If you get a 3/4 inch hand pull the inspector says its out legal hand pull is 1/2 inch.

I little off topic but...I think that you are allowed to have one brake out of adjustment. When setting your brakes your goal is 5/8 of an inch. If an inspector checks your brakes and your slack adjustor pulls out to a max of 3/4 of an inch, then you are good to go. One inch and more then you have a problem. With Long stroke brakes you are allowed more of a variance(sp).

[surfer-joe]

Ya have to understand that most trucking regulations are put into effect because there were some incidents that caused police, insurance company interests, private citizens, or public safety advocates to make complaints to the DOT or FMCSA or other governing body's.

One of the major causes these days is the public safety advocates. They seem to have a lot of money, and they collect more money by seeing to it that they are busily and loudly promoting some safety issue, preferably involving an easy target -- the trucking industry. Increasing injury, deaths, or accident rates also raise public awareness, which all the above feed on to impose their own ideas on truckers and other groups like mining or heavy construction. They perpetuate their jobs by constantly finding items to complain about. Hours of Service rules are one of the latest examples.

Another example is the safety equipment manufacturing industry, which single-handedly pushed hardhats on nearly everyone back in the late sixties and early seventies -- all without much data or evidence that hardhats would prevent injuries. But they were a hugely profitable item to manufacture and all of a sudden, everyone had to have one you see. Their efforts continue today.

One group that works very much behind the scene is the insurance people. They make a lot of money raising your insurance rates and not having to pay claims because of rules and regulations they have proposed and seen put into law over the years. They fund an army of lobbyists in Washington DC and in state capitols trying to effect legislation on scores of issues where they have direct financial interests, and that's all it is to them, just money. Your money.

Quite often, the general public is given the opportunity to speak or write to the agency proposing a new rule. Supposedly the agency takes all these comments into consideration, along with the opinions and statistics of the folks originally promoting the rule or perhaps a change in an existing rule. The agency also takes into consideration it's own staff's findings and opinions.

I've found that quite often, not many folks respond to these requests or opportunities to comment, other times, comment volume is quite heavy. But if those affected do not make an effort to voice their experiences and opinions or thoughts, it's a good bet that regulators will follow the lead of the largest group of commentators, which is quite often the people that have little direct interest in having to deal directly with the new or changed regulations. I have seen some really good and telling comments over the years from plain-Jane citizens, people with a dog in the fight you know. These do make a difference.

When it comes to the writing of regulations, it's not very often that a congressman does the actual construction of the paragraphs and sentences. They have staffs of people for that purpose, but more often, they just take what is given to them by advocates and include it into the legislation or rule-making process verbatim. Some never read, let alone try to understand how the thing will effect their constituents. They just know they have done a "good" thing and take the credit and glory for having seen it go into law.

When you read a lot of older rules contained in the Code Of Federal Regulations, you will quickly notice a large number of rulings that have been rescinded. The reason why isn't offered, but you can bet that it was because the rule was unworkable, or was just too big a pain in the ass to continue to enforce, or it gouged some congressman's or bureaucrat's brother in law's business. There of course, may have been other more legitimate reasons for being struck, such as being over-ruled by a court someplace. You will notice this quite often in state regulations as well.

My point with these last couple of paragraphs, is that the wording in the codes and statues is often quite ambiguous and misleading. What this does is leave a lot of items up to the digressions of the law enforcement officer or inspector. Inspectors never have a bad day either. What one may allow, another may not pay any attention to. Interpretations may vary from state to state, from agency to agency. Even the courts may disagree with each other over the wording or intent of a ruling.

So what does that do? It puts the individual with the citation on the spot, and into the arms of a lawyer. If there is one thing I learned over the many years I've worked in construction and mining, it's always take a citation to a lawyer and to court. That lesson is more important today than ever with the huge increase in fines and penalties that we are seeing.

First off, don't argue with the issuing officer or inspector. That's like wrestling with a pig in muck -- only the pig enjoys it. Take it to an aggressive lawyer, let him take it up with the court. You may get lucky and the issuing person may not show up -- case dismissed. You may get lucky and the judge throws it out on some technicality. You may get lucky and have some or all of the penalty excused. Thing is, if you don't protest the citation, you will definitely have to pay, or serve the time.

Yeah! Lawyers are expensive, and I always feel like I'm dealing with a master criminal whenever I deal with one. I want to go take a shower afterwards. But consider what happens when you don't fight a citation. You have to pay a fine, or endure time in the big house. You acquire points on your license for some infractions if you are the guilty person directly involved. Your company acquires points in the FMCSA safety system, which can lead to unwanted and unwelcome attention from the Federal DOT auditors at some point. Your insurance carrier takes notice and sends a safety and compliance auditor -- or a team of them -- over, to wander thru your facilities looking for more problems. This can and often does result in an increase in your insurance rates, sometimes even a cancellation in rare instances. Your business can also loose it's right to travel on state or federal roadways, and believe me, this will get the attention of your boss real quick! You know what is probably going to happen to you if the company has to shut down because this happens.

OK, I've gone way over what I started to say here. But my point is that we all have to fight increasing regulation where it's warranted. The fuss over secured loads and rigging is a case in point. Loads of cargo and rigging securement items have been falling off transportation vehicles since the ancient Greeks and Romans started the trucking industry way back. These things are mostly the result of human error, not the fault of the items themselves.

Those that say we can not do anything about rules and regulations or authorities understanding of them are wrong. We can do something, and that is to fight the regulations individually or collectively in association with like-minded persons with the same interests at heart. Make your views known to your legislators, contribute to the opposition, comment to the rule-making bureaucrats with well-rounded points that contradict what the advocates for the rulings say. Jump on your insurance people and make them help you, don't let them be part of the problem by backing legislation that hurts your business.

It's tough, but it's all part of business, which you or your company will be out of if you do not stand up for your rights and your point of view.

Good luck to us all!

[Steve Frazier]

I agree with much of what you've posted Joe. The most popular (or unpopular) issue in the industry that I've seen lately is the governing of trucks top speed at the manufacturer's level. There is an effort underway to make 65mph the fastest a class 7 or 8 truck will go. The lobbyists supporting this issue claim to have data that proves excessive speed is a major factor in truck accidents.

Trucking industry advocates claim their data is flawed, and also claim that a speed differential between trucks and passenger cars is more dangerous, I tend to agree. Most passenger cars are traveling at a rate higher than 65 mph and having them travel along with trucks that are limited to that speed increases the risk of rear end collisions.

[zhkent]

The chain rating thing was brought up at the Kansas's winter KLICA convention. LICA's home page: http://www.licanational.org/

The theory is that a chain placed over something and hooked to the trailer on both ends gets the full chain rating, provided the hooks and binders are not rated lower.

So then it was ciphered into law that a chain hooked to the bed of the truck or trailer on one end should only be rated at half the chain's capacity.

[Ford LT-9000]

In the republic of B.C. no brakes can be out of adjustment if the inspector finds one brake out then you get a fine. They don't fool around with brakes and I agree.

With lowbeds you throw your blocking etc up against the gooseneck its not going to go anywhere. Same with throwing chains in a well or pocket in the lowbed are not going to go anywhere either.

I see more morons with pickup trucks with the box overflowing and stuff falling out onto the road. They never get picked on when you see a garbage bag that has fallen out of a P/U truck and its scattered all over the road.

You can count on 90% of the lowbedders have experience they know what is going to fall off and what isn't. Not every truck driver can hook up to a lowbed if they have no experience.

I guess the people don't realize it doesn't matter how many chains you have on a machine holding it to the lowbed. If its going to slide off or roll over it will take the lowbed with it along with the tractor pulling it.

[surfer-joe]

I agree Steve, excessive speed is a major accident factor with trucks -- the excessive speed usually being exhibited by some dummy in a car trying to beat the trucker to an exit ramp that is! You know the old saying, I wish I had a dollar.........

I agree with making sure everything on a truck bed is secured too. Chains, boomers, cribbing, tarps, everything. I've seen too much stuff come off after road vibration shook it loose from where it was lying. Those chain wells are nice, they shake out the dirt and rust and crap, but they are subject to damage too and a chain is just like a snake, it will find a way to creep thru a hole and dangle down, then pull out and bounce all over the place taking out electrical wiring and air lines. It's amazing how high chain will bounce when it comes off a bed at 65 MPH. I like the chain hangers on the back of the tractor with the lock-down bar that can be padlocked. Safe and secure.

But, human nature being what it is, some will still just throw stuff on the bed and hope it's still there when they get back to the yard. The oilfield guys I worked with were about the worst in this regard. They didn't own it, and they didn't care. The best were the heavy equipment haulers. They really valued their chains and wouldn't loan out one out to save their mother. Most of those I worked around took real good care of their stuff and put it away neatly and securely.

One thing I was always kinda picky about was brake adjustment. Far as I'm concerned, a gearjammer that can't or won't adjust his own brakes correctly, shouldn't be allowed on the highway. I fell out of trusting others to adjust the brakes on rigs I was driving during a stint of OTR work in Michigan one summer. I nearly ran down a Jeep that cut in front of me abruptly, then stopped to make a left hand turn. I was driving a cab-over White and when I stopped I could not see the back end of that Jeep, that's how close I was, and I had the brake pedal pushed clear up past my radiator. I stopped at a Napa store a mile down the road, bought a 9/16th wrench and a hammer and had a meeting with every tractor and trailer brake on my rig right in the Napa parking lot. After that, every time I hooked up to a new trailer, I got out my trusty wrench and hammer and checked them all before I left the yard.

I can't even begin to note how many times I've met truckers that could not adjust air brakes properly, not to mention the many that thought they could, but were doing it backwards. There's a lot of gray in brakes, it's not all black and white. But if it's hot and it's been a long busy day and the inspector is more than a little steamed and tired, brakes are usually an easy call for him to write up.

That's why I wrote that you gotta be calm around those guys. The way the regs are written, they leave a lot of room for an inspector to lean one way or the other. You bust his bubble, I guarantee he's going to bust yours. So make sure everything on or part of your rig is in tip-top condition and neat looking. It may save you from a real bad day.

[Grader4me]

I know exactly what you are refering to about the chain wells. I am also in agreement that this should be an acceptable means of securement. I'm going to do some digging on this side of the border to see what I can find out.

I found out what is required here. If the chain well is "enclosed" then it is an acceptable means of securement. If the well is open then you have to have some type of securement device.


In short, it's probably not worth wasting any sleep over voicing our opinions though, because they will still have the last say in the matter.

I agree, but it's good that we all work together here to try and find the answers that we need. By voicing our opinions and listening to the voices of experience, we can possibly save ourselves some grief down the road.:)

[Bob Horrell]

Steve,
In California, trucks and autos pulling trailers can only go 55 mph. We have some freeways where the speed limit is 70 mph. That difference causes a lot of problems. Everyone is always looking to duck in front of a truck so they don't get slowed down. The highway patrol will ticket for over 3 mph above the speed limit for truckers. It is frustrating, to say the least, to drive a truck in this state.
On the flat, a truck can stop pretty good, but you put a heavy loaded truck on a downhill and everything changes. I can understand the lower limits for downhills. But the people making the laws don't drive a truck so what can you expect.

[Steve Frazier]

I wonder if the accident rate involving trucks is higher in California?

[surfer-joe]

I believe it is Steve, but that may be due to the sheer volume of trucks in the state more than anything else. The only place I ever saw more trucks on a highway was I-80/90 between Gary and Chicago.

The speed differential in California frustrated everyone and I sure didn't like it. But every time I went over the grapevine I'd see some fool trucker with burning brakes or else be off in the ditch wrecked.

The lower speed limit was as much or more for the autos safety as it was for the trucks. When you go into California from another state, the truckers all seem to stay at speed, then gradually slow down as they near a population center or known smoky hideout. Going north and south was another story and you rarely saw a speeding truck, unless it had out of state tags. Common speed for autos over the grapevine -- around 80 -90.

[LowBoy]

It seems to me that the case could be made that leaving your chains and binders in the well, under the specified "normal" conditions, they will never cause you to be in violation of the rest of the rule.

That having been said...


It seems to me, that the way rule is being enforced, you could be written up for a single rubber bungee laying loose in your well. :beatsme

The way they interperate the law as of the moment does, indeed say you are in violation for a single bungee cord laying in a well by itself, unless the two ends are attached to something. This may be micro-analysis, but I've been micro-analyzed by the authorities before...
For all practical purposes, a simple trap door over the well will "cover" the issue (no pun intended...) I will even go as far as to say that a nylon netting device, such as a miniature "Pro-Net" sport accessory found in place of a pickup truck pailgate, will suffice. SOMETHING to keep these confounded, nutoriously athletic jumping 1/2" chains and binders from flying out of their resting place.
( Just for some sarcastically humorous information...any of you try and pick up one of these 1/2" X 12 foot long chains I'm speaking about lately???How 'bout the binders...bet you won't want to haul two of each of these bad boys around the jobsite very far wrapped around your neck, with a binder in each hand...If you were able to for any length of time, then Mr. T was a cissy...):naughty
Now, picture 6 or 8 of them sitting down in a 10" deep storage well, 2' X 3" square. If you arrange them in a scientifically pre-meditated arrangement like I do every day, with the binders in the bottom first, and about 250 lbs. or more of these Man-Killing chains all tangled up around them, and take note of the way they look prior to driving say, 10 miles, and then look at them after the 10 mile trip is completed, I think many of us could agree that, THEY AIN'T GOIN' NO-WHERE!!!!:duh
To sum it all up with a quote, "Common sense is very UNCOMMON"...:cool2

[surfer-joe]

Half inch chain, and their boomers are heavy tis true. But I've watched them bounce their way right off a trailer before. If I can lose a 20000 pound counterweight off a trailer, then half inch chain is no problem either. Off it goes......

Gosh, I'd hate to play with half inch chain today. Too old and creaky for that stuff.

[Grader4me]

Gosh, I'd hate to play with half inch chain today. Too old and creaky for that stuff.

Lol..I hear ya:)

[LowBoy]

Half inch chain, and their boomers are heavy tis true. But I've watched them bounce their way right off a trailer before.





So true, but again as I've said in another post presently, if a man leaves anything on a flat deck trailer (or truck for that matter,) then he deserves to lose the stuff anyways. Believe me when I tell you, I run in the worst area in the country that a man could imagine, New York City, all of New England as well, up and down I-495 in Massachusetts where every single expansion joint on every bridge approach AND exit off the deck is at least 4" lower or higher than the bridge deck itself, causing an instantaneous airborne experience at 55 mph every time. In the well, all these chains do after riding in these conditions, is LOCK THEMSELVES tighter and tighter together as the miles pass by.

I also agree with the creaks and cracks of age, but unfortunately, I have to wrestle these mankilling 1/2" chains and binders on what I haul every day.

I think it's safe to say that I'm quite eccentric when it comes to how and what, and why to secure, and when and where more securement is necessary. I approach every job with an engineering mindset, looking for the best possible pull, angles, distribution of weight, and many other incidentals that the "average" guy would never think of. Therefore, my opinion of how safe these chains and binders riding in this factory built well stays the same.

I always overdo it when it comes to securing equipment, if for no other reason at all, to eliminate the need to argue with a wet-behind-the-ears booksmart DOT officer whom probably isn't as old as the amount of years as I've been doing this kind of thing...

Like I've said, these wells are plenty safe to store anything in, and I'm living proof. Leaving something on the level deck of a vehicle thinking it's going to stay there is, to say the least, negligent.I have 3-4 chains hidden up in the gooseneck of this lowbed I pull, and they would have to be subjected to an electromagnetic force equal to that of a scrapyard magnet to get them to jump out. I've subjected them to that kind of force just yesterday, as a matter of fact...went to Staten Island, NY to deliver a 416 Cat hoe from Marion, Virginia. Going down 287 southbound in New Jersey has the equivilent force of the gravitational pull of the moon, in terms of up and down motion at 60 mph...and those chains never moved, except to tangle themselves into each other even more than the last time I'd tried to use them, so the proof to me, is right there that the securement devices' weight itself is sufficient, to say the least, to be classified as safe. ("IF IT IS PROPERLY CONTAINED...")That's the key phrase to this issue.... :thumbsup :drinkup

[surfer-joe]

Gee! An eccentric gearjammer. Who'd a thunk it?

[LowBoy]

Gee! An eccentric gearjammer. Who'd a thunk it?





That's where we differ, surfer-joe. I've never been able to accept that kind of labeling in the way I've conducted my business over the years. Do I drive a truck?...yeah, more often than desired. Am I a "gearjammer"? Nope. Never seemed to fit in. I also have the ability to be able to walk away from it all, never having the desire to return to it, once I set myself up for it.It's what I call "not keepin' yer eggs all in one basket", see. We all have to do something for a living, and some get stuck in the "rut", while others of us drive up on the side of the slope...You pickin' up what I'm layin' down?:drinkup

[surfer-joe]

Aw, don't get me wrong LowBoy. I was having a tongue in cheek moment, at your expense of course. I expect a lot of us here have done whatever we've had to support ourselves and our families. I did my share of trucking, gearjammin, whatever ya want to call it. It's not much of a life for me, but some get by on it and enjoy it.

Like you, I'd much rather be snowmobiling.

I have however, met a bunch of eccentric clutch-burners over the years. I could probably write at least a short novel on them alone.

[Grader4me]

always overdo it when it comes to securing equipment, if for no other reason at all, to eliminate the need to argue with a wet-behind-the-ears booksmart DOT officer whom probably isn't as old as the amount of years as I've been doing this kind of thing...

:D That's telling it the way it is!:exactly


Therefore, my opinion of how safe these chains and binders riding in this factory built well stays the same

That is an opinion of experience...and as I stated before I wholeheartly agree with you. Hey, just to stay on the side of "compliance" throw a plywood cover over the well and secure it with a bungee cord :D

[LowBoy]

Aw, don't get me wrong LowBoy. I was having a tongue in cheek moment, at your expense of course. I expect a lot of us here have done whatever we've had to support ourselves and our families. I did my share of trucking, gearjammin, whatever ya want to call it. It's not much of a life for me, but some get by on it and enjoy it.

Like you, I'd much rather be snowmobiling.

I have however, met a bunch of eccentric clutch-burners over the years. I could probably write at least a short novel on them alone.





Hey, surfer-joe, I'm not taking it offensively, believe me. I'm what they call "a square peg in a round hole" I guess. It's a deal where it's the lesser of all evils at the present time. We live in a tough area to make any kind of decent money at much of anything, so the only way I can stick around the region is to do what I do. And don't get me wrong; I make a decent living, only because I have to work twice the amount of hours as a normal working class man due to these things they call logbooks. Just imagine what these employers would have these guys do if there weren't any such a thing as one?!!:jawdrop

Being a guy with a background with hands-on, boots-in-the-field kind of experience, in a lot of different facets of these industries from transport to commercial/residential sitework to landclearing to demolition to screening and crushing plants and heavy duty mechanical repair and on and on I could go,...I tend to think of myself as an outcast in the trucking world, because I can't really stand sitting in a truckstop restaraunt (I never do by the way,) and trying to hold an intelligent conversation about something OTHER than truckin'...because the industry has changed so radically over the last 10 years in terms of driver experience, diversity, etc., that I just tend to stick to myself and pick my conversations. (Am I making sense, or just an a** out of myself?):beatsme

You're talking my language though, joe. "I'd rather be snowmobiling"...:drinkup

Grader4....I think you're onto something with the plywood idea. Although I have a great place over in the city where most supplies have to be gone after called the "Steel Supermarket", which stocks about every shape of alloy known to us in our fields. If you need a hunk of billet aluminum, or a length of 4" C-beam cut to size, they can handle it.
Monday I think I'll give 'em a call and order a piece of 5/16" plate cut to size, and I'll electrically glue a pair of Home Depot hinges onto it and call it done and over with. Then my compliance woes will be soon forgotten.:cool2

[9Axle]

I agree with you lowboy.a chain well should be effecient along with the weight of chain.i to have an open well that is 4ft x 24"deep x28 ft long that would be one heavy door:eek: i have'nt had any issues yet out in ca.the thing i see the most is a loose chain, strap on a load witch tends to fall off.if drivers would stop and do a spot check with in the first 25miles or so we'ed probably see fewer load securing devices in the middle of the road.i can't tell u how many bungies i run over every day . with 58 tires on the ground and 11ft wide unlaiden if its in the lane its done:eek: maybe i can get a big cargo net or better yet I'll just tarp it. out of site out of mind:beatsme

[LowBoy]

I agree with you lowboy.a chain well should be effecient along with the weight of chain.i to have an open well that is 4ft x 24"deep x28 ft long that would be one heavy door:eek: i have'nt had any issues yet out in ca.the thing i see the most is a loose chain, strap on a load witch tends to fall off.if drivers would stop and do a spot check with in the first 25miles or so we'ed probably see fewer load securing devices in the middle of the road.i can't tell u how many bungies i run over every day . with 58 tires on the ground and 11ft wide unlaiden if its in the lane its done:eek: maybe i can get a big cargo net or better yet I'll just tarp it. out of site out of mind:beatsme






You're saying it like it is, 9Axle.I wish I had a buck for every bungee I've run over, or at least a magnet that would pick them up as I did, I'd either be a millionaire or have enough straps to stretch from my house in Vermont to yers.:D
Last week I left West Point, NY with a 5 ton military truck that had a box strapped into the dump body. Headed east into the Communist State, (I..I mean Connecticut,) I didn't get 1/2 mile across the line when I looked in the right mirror, and one of the military's fancy strap tails was blowing in the breeze. It was still secured and tight; just the last 10 feet of excess was blowing around. It wasn't life threatening to the public, wasn't going to cause a horrific, traumatic situation or anything, and I was planning on going 20 more miles and do my typical multi-tasking and fix that, check everything, and grab a coffee to go home.
As I cross the state line, guess who's getting onto I-84 at exit 1 along side me....that's right. The Man With The Plan. Took about 10 seconds for him to put his light on. I just shake my head violently, and give up immediately. I pulled over once it was wide enough, and without hesitation I jumped out of the truck, grabbed my gloves, and climbed up onto the right side of the 5 ton to fix this hazard to society. Smokey comes over to me as I'm hanging onto the side of the truck like a chimpanzee with one arm, duct taping the strap to itself and says, "You know why I stopped you, don't you?" Boy, what an opportunity to be sarcastic...but wisdom prevailed at that moment.
I answered, "I'll bet it was this strap. It JUST came undone at the state line, but I'll get it straightened out right now". As we were having our rather awkward visit, another flatbed or something went by, dragging a chain 10 feet behind himself. The cop says, "look at that idiot, he's dragging his chains down the road, scaring the people around him to death". (Perfect escape plan now.) I say,"You'd better go get HIM then, 'cause I'm all set with this..."
He leaves, and I finish my duct taping, and it's all paradise from there.
The smallest things can lead into bigger problems in today's world, so it's safe to say that it's easier to play their "safety game" and keep from getting a fine than it is to defy them and end up paying in the end anyways. After all, it's only MONEY...a few more dollars spent on a piece of plate, some hinges, and you're back in the compliance game. We can go make some more MONEY tomorrow...:drinkup

[Grader4me]

:D LowBoy...Sounds like you have it all figured out. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us...Your stories are very entertaining, and we can learn from them :thumbsup

[9Axle]

lowboy i have a good one for you.i got pulled into a inspection station last week. i got the logbook,drivers license,greencard etc. shut the truck off release the brakes.as the inspector checked lights turnsignals he keeps looking at my axles brake area,so he called one of his buddies over to take a look. i could hear him ask the other inspector how do you check brake adjustment on this:beatsme so im sitten trying not to laugh and i know he's going to ask me how.so here he comes i get the how do u adjust your brakes:confused: you dont there disk brakes:o if you want you can remove my wheeles and check brake pad wear:) 48 wheeles.so he gave my paper work back to me give me 4 new vehicle inspection sickers:cool2 now get on out of here as i was leaving im thinking WOW theres a couple smart inspectors:Pointhead

[LowBoy]

lowboy i have a good one for you.i got pulled into a inspection station last week. i got the logbook,drivers license,greencard etc. shut the truck off release the brakes.as the inspector checked lights turnsignals he keeps looking at my axles brake area,so he called one of his buddies over to take a look. i could hear him ask the other inspector how do you check brake adjustment on this:beatsme so im sitten trying not to laugh and i know he's going to ask me how.so here he comes i get the how do u adjust your brakes:confused: you dont there disk brakes:o if you want you can remove my wheeles and check brake pad wear:) 48 wheeles.so he gave my paper work back to me give me 4 new vehicle inspection sickers:cool2 now get on out of here as i was leaving im thinking WOW theres a couple smart inspectors:Pointhead



Yeah, a couple of rocket scientists, indeed. That's the norm nowadays, unfortunately. I really think the key to surviving a DOT inspection is all in your first initial impression to them, however "sharp" they may be...
If you act like you're actually ENJOYING your time spent with them at first, giving them everything and anything they are asking for, and even volunteering stuff they didn't ask for, (i.e; medical card or something,) it usually works as a "softener" when you are gentle spirited to them. Come across as you're being bothered by their presence, and it will most likely be...a bother. That's just been my personal experience. Worked so far, but tomorrow's another "Day in Paradise", as I like to say...:drinkup

[LowBoy]

:D LowBoy...Sounds like you have it all figured out. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us...Your stories are very entertaining, and we can learn from them :thumbsup










Boy, Grader...if you are insinuating that I've got it all figured out, you're in a heap of trouble.:dizzy

I just do my best to "share the love" as it comes along, with the heart of a teacher or better yet, an entertainer. The everyday grind in this world we work and live in can get a man down pretty fast unless you are lucky enough to view it all with a humorous, but sensible wit.

As I sit here now realizing we are one kid short in the house, I realize that life just whizzes by before you know it when you're taking it all for granted, working and sweating and worrying to get things accomplished, just to be all worn out at the end of it all.

What I mean is, we just got back a 1/2 hr. ago from hauling the last of my 18 yr. old son's earthly possessions down to Ct. to his new dorm, which is 15 min. from Baran Institute of Technology, the tech school that accepted him for the next year to learn about diesel technology. I'm down there with my wife and daughter (13,) standing in a room that's about 10' X 10' square, that houses 3 young adults. My son was fortunate to have a local kid he went to high school with have him there also as a room mate, but they have been put into this postage stamp sized room with an existing boarder. They didn't meet him yet, and we're all hoping that they all mingle and co-exist for the cause.:professor

My point is, it's funny now that I've been doing something that I really could have done without for over 20 years, but now that I can see the fruit of my labor in where my son is now, and what he's about to do with his life and future...I'm suddenly realizing that maybe all this madness just might have been a little bit worth it.:beatsme

Did that make any sense?

[2004F550]

Thats a good program lowboy, my buddy is in it, the school is only 10 miles from my house.

[LowBoy]

Thats a good program lowboy, my buddy is in it, the school is only 10 miles from my house.











Yeah, it seemed to have gone rather smoothly right from the beginning stages of acceptance, to today. I actually know a kid in New Haven that went to Baran for diesel tech, and not that I'd have him rip into a brand new 15 liter Cat engine or anything, but all in all..he's got the fundamentals to make a good wrench someday. There's still no substitute for boots-in-the-field, sweat equity...

Thanks for the reinforcing words, F550...:thumbsup

[surfer-joe]

That's pretty good 9axle. I'd like to have seen those inspectors faces when the realization suddenly hit them that they weren't going to be able to set you up with a citation for bad brake adjustment. That's just too funny!!!!

Ya got lucky LowBoy with the fella going by with the sparkler hanging off the trailer. Impeccable timing.

[Grader4me]

My point is, it's funny now that I've been doing something that I really could have done without for over 20 years, but now that I can see the fruit of my labor in where my son is now, and what he's about to do with his life and future...I'm suddenly realizing that maybe all this madness just might have been a little bit worth it.:beatsme

Did that make any sense?

Makes perfect sense :)

[JDOFMEMI]

.....
Monday I think I'll give 'em a call and order a piece of 5/16" plate cut to size, and I'll electrically glue a pair of Home Depot hinges onto it and call it done and over with. Then my compliance woes will be soon forgotten.:cool2

Lowboy

I just hope your valiant effort at containing those notorious jumping chains does not cause the larger problem of getting a load secured, then finding out you have chains, binders, etc that need to go back into the box, and now you can't put them in, because .... you can't get the lid open when loaded, or worse yet, when you for some reason need another chain, and can't get it because the lid won't open when loaded:Banghead

[LowBoy]

This can lead into an issue of great importance, JD...

I've been there multiple times before WITHOUT this cover...In a little hurry to do whatever, or the shipper insists on loading it themselves thinking I'm not capable, which is fine, the gloves don't get as dirty that way, but they walk away to do something else and all of a sudden I realize the extra :cussing chains and binders are underneath the bucket, boom, wheels, drum, whatever. End up doing it twice as usual...That's why my attitude about the covering of the nutorious jumping chains remains the same...It's unnecessary.