Cummins 5.9 problems

[glsahl]

Just had a problem with the Cummins5.9 turbo in my 95 Dodge 3500 service truck.I was pulling away from a stop light,and lost power,metallic clicking,I pulled over,stepped on the clutch,and the engine died.Tried to restart,engine blew black exhaust,and "thumped" like a dead cylinder.Stopped it immediately! Sounded like the cam jumped time.
Anyone have any experience with this problem?
I have several of these engines in Linkbelt excavators,and Kawasaki loaders,and would like to know if there is an established weakness in this model engine.
I'll begin teardown of my truck Monday,starting with timing cover.
Thanks,
Gary

[RonG]

I will give you a website to go to that will probably point you in the right direction pretty fast.
Some of those 5.9 Cummins were plagued with what they call the KDP which stood for "Killer Dowel Pin" and although I have a '95 Dodge pickup mine is gas so I have not paid much attention to the KDP problem.
I think it has to do with a locating pin breaking off on a timing gear but if you do a search on "KDP" you should find many posts for reference.
I remember reading where some have used a technique of drilling a hole in the timing cover and replacing the pin without having to pull the cover off even but I would imagine that would be preventive maintainence,done before the pin broke.
Anyway,here is the link,good luck. Ron G

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/index.php?s=

[glsahl]

Honestly,thanks for the info.Wasn't quite expecting there to be so much! Guess this is a very well known problem in Dodge circles.
Guess I know where I'll be Monday morning.
Best part is,I've got 3 Kawasaki 70Z loaders,and a 2800Q Linkbelt excavator with the same engine.Hoping they are new enough to be past this little design flaw,is probably a waste of time.
I do appretiate the help.
Gary

[Bob Horrell]

Your problem is not the KDP. When the pin comes out it wedges between a gear and the edge of the aluminum timing cover on the lower portion on the passenger side cracking the cover and causing a bad oil leak. No other damage occurs.
There is a website for dodge diesel owners that is full of information about the cummins engine. Go to www.turbodieselregister.com where the dodge diesel trucks are broken down by vintage. Pre 94, 94 to 98.5, 98.5 to etc.etc. Of course you want to search in 94 to 98.5 (second generation) which are the mechanical injector pumps. A failure of this pump could cause the symptom you are describing if I am understanding it correctly.
Good luck.

[glsahl]

I've spent most of my Sunday surfing this problem.With the excellant guidance,you and RonG provided,I'm feeling a little better about the situation.Just wish I'd have had a clue this "birth defect" was built into the truck.I've had an ongoing battle with timing cover bolts loosening up.I have the second set of cover gaskets,and front seal on the shelf at the shop.To think I've been that close to such a potential problem,and was so clueless.Well, the two kids I've got working for me are gonna ride the legs off this horse.
My current guess is that the dowel made between the crank and cam gears. Probably disturbed the pump drive gear,the miss,and black smoke were unmistakable.Hope the pump was just shook out of time.I didn't run across anyone admitting to having an actual failure.Just a bunch crowing about having caught the dowel
hanging in the hole,guess if I would've done some homework,I could've done the refit 6 months ago.
I've got echos of the journeyman who trained me on Cat engines,ringing in my ears.I had a 3406 lose an injector on the dyno,my first solo rebuild,second engine to be hooked to Cashman Equipment's new dyno.Threw the smoke of two working Camels,he told me "Pup,it may be the first,but if ya manage to last awhile,it won't be the last."
Guess twenty years isn't quite as long a time as it felt like,then.
Thanks again.I'll get back with the damage assessment.

[John DiMartino]

When the dowel pin drops it usually gets caught between the cam and the aluminum timing cover. It usually punches the timing cover out and leaks oil.They run fine most of the time.In rare cases the pin has gotten caught between the cam and crank gear,and this usually leads to the mains getting torn right out of the block. That is extremeley rare. It almost sounds like the injection pump jumped time. In 95-97 a lot of the pumps were undertorqued,and jumped time down the road,its just a press taper fit on the gear,which needs to be torqued to 165 ft lbs.The torque on a lot of them was as low as 125,leading to jumped timing. The 5.9 Cummins is a fine engine,this dowel pin problem affected under 4% of the engines,most of the affected ones were 97s,but it wasnt til late 98 that the timing cover was tapered down so the pin could not fall out. If your in there setting the timing bump it up to 16.5 degrees it will run better and get better mileage.

[glsahl]

Well,here's the scoop.The owner pulled the timing cover off for me,I had an operator try to teach a Kawasaki 70Z to rollover,he found that the engine locked up when the timing marks lined up.
His decision was to pull the engine.Which we did.Once I got the head off,I found #1 exhaust embedded in the piston.Every piston showed contact,though light ,with it's exhaust valve.Rod bearings had fewer dirt tracks than I expected,mains had barely enough wear to give a decent crank profile.Turbo is good,no sign of fuel wash,head gasket was intact.Can't find a decent reason for the valve to have failed.Believe my one attempt to start,after failure,may have reversed the engine's rotation,possibly accounting for the marks on the rest of the pistons.Failed stem does show a lateral break,and impact deformation,but I can't prove how the valve may have gained the depth,into the cylinder,to make contact.Overspeed is the only circumstance I've ever known to fit the damage,having this happen pulling away from a stop light,leaves me baffled.I had put roughly 70 miles on the truck that morning,and had just finished replacing a set of rear springs,on a water truck, prior to that leg of my day.Truck had been sitting for close to four hours,and I made it less that 2.5 miles from the site I was on.
Found the KDP when I pulled the cam,it was tucked in behind the oil pump gear,caught in a nook of the timing gear housing,which was cracked at roughly 5 o'clock on the cam gear.Dowel was unmarked,as were the gears,timing cover was misaligned,so I figure the pin had been loose for a while.
I'm intrested to hear a theory.
Cat had a problem with some early model ATAAC 3406 engines,if intake reached a certain temp,#2 piston would seize at the wrist pin.Intake air temp,and pump timing are two factors I can't confirm.
Any help?

[John DiMartino]

glsahl,how did you make out? Did you ever find out what caused the valve/piston contact. Did you get it running again?

[glsahl]

Has to be wear of keys in cam,and crank gears.Cam gear key was nearly sheared,and crank gear pin had worn into the gear. I'd estimate the change in timing to be at least 5 to 10 degrees.
Perhaps the added torque,from the acceleration away from the stop light,was enough to push it over the edge.
The engine relies on the head gasket to form a cumbustion chamber,the head is flat,with valves recessed barely enough to be flush,when closed.The pistons extend beyond the block's deck,when at TDC.
I'm currently in the assemby stages,and hope to have the truck running this weekend.
Had our 87 IH 1700 welding truck decide to dump coolant into it's oil pan,yesterday,got water running down the second cylinder,driver's side.So I have to get on to other projects.Never been inside a IH 9.0L V8 diesel,and can't seem to locate a book.Hope it's just a head gasket,but a cracked head seems more likely.
Thanks.

[glsahl]

Just an interesting side note.Drove the truck for two days,got almost 200 miles on it,and lost a brand new lower radiator hose.Got it shut down,head isn't discolored,but couldn't have done a fresh engine any good.
Another day in the life,huh.

[Steve Frazier]

Did the hose burst?

This could indicate you still have a problem with an overpressurized system.

[glsahl]

No,clamp at the radiator was placed too far back on the nipple.I failed to keep a close eye on my help.Drove the truck for two days without incident.It still runs,but,I'm afraid there's been damage.I've got some light noise that wasn't there before.Putting off the decision to disassemble,until after the long weekend.I've got a Kawasaki 65Z 3 loader,with the rear diff out,that I need to get back in the dirt soon.That may have priority after the holiday.