Call Before You Dig....

[Steve Frazier]

Yesterday in one of the nearby towns, a house exploded from a natural gas leak, the result of line damage from an excavator making repairs. Apparently the lines were encased in the concrete he was removing and the meter was pulled loose from the house. The house filled with gas and 20 minutes later "BOOM!"

It turns out the contractor had not called to identify utility locations and is now in a heap of trouble. Take a look here (http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/saturday/policecourts/stories/po041004s2.shtml) for the detailed story. There's a link at the bottom of the column to a slide show showing photos of the aftermath.

[nobull1]

I would not want to be in his shoes.You wonder does he have enough/any insurance and will the insurance company then sue the contractor for not following proper procedure.We are just lately starting to get natural gas so have not had to deal with this "yet".If this happened around here you would be out of business because no insurance co. would insure you and you would be a fool not to have insurance.By the way rates here have doubled in the last 3 years and they exclude a lot of things that used to be covered and if you use it they will probably drop you.Great system give us your money but don't make a claim. :Banghead

[BRL]

Holy cow Batman! 1 house gone, 8 houses condemned & 30 - 35 other houses damaged. That was one Hell of an explosion. That's a good article to keep a copy of to show those impatient or hesitant to spend what it really costs type cutomers. Its certainly worth it to put your project off a few days to get the mark out. All of the paver guys tell me they don't need mark outs because they are only scraping off the old asphalt. I'll have to show this to the next one I hear that from. And Digger242 mentioned pulling a gas line up while removing a stump. I have pulled stumps from back yards without doing a call out, but never again after seeing these stories.

[digger242j]

Well, here's a story about that...

I had an addition foundation to dig. It was in one of the higher class suburbs here. The addition was at the rear of the house, and the electric service was underground. The main line ran in a right of way between the backyards. The service line was pretty obviously in a straight line between the meter location and the electric company's box out there by the back of the property. It also obviously ran right through the addition and was going to be relocated, which obviously meant that at some point I was going to need to dig right up to that box.

The young lady who showed up to do the locating was willing to mark the service line where it ran through the proposed foundation, (which the electrician had already disconnected), but *absolutely* refused to mark the main line and the services to the adjoining properties. Her explanation was that she was only to mark on the property that the one call had been made for. "This is Upper Saint Clair, and if I put paint marks on somebody else's grass, I'll get in all kinds of trouble!"

I finally picked up my own can of paint and told her to locate the lines, and *I'd* put the paint on the grass. Maybe at that point she realized how badly I wanted to not dig up her company's wire, because she did locate everything.


:Banghead

(This was about 10 years ago, and it honest to God just gave me a headache again just to tell the story...)


None of the above is intended in any way to minimize the importance of making that call. It's becoming even more important these days, what with all the "trenchless" technology being used to install fiberoptic stuff. I pay pretty careful attention to anything that looks like disturbed earth, but anything that's been bored won't even give you a clue until you pull up a bucket full of fiber.

And another thing.... We did some work about 20 years ago along one of the main streets in the eastern end of Pittsburgh. The phone company (back then it was all Ma Bell), was really good about making sure we knew what was buried nearby. Guys who had nothing to do with locating even stopped by on a couple of occasions to warn us. It was the main fiberoptic cable that ran from downtown Pittsburgh to points east, like Harrisburg and Allentown. And, it was in some 90 year old conduit. The conduit was creosoted wood. When you dig it up, it looks for all the world like an old railroad tie. We were told that if that fiber got broken it required two special tractor trailers to be brought out for the technicians to make the repair splices. The excavator gets to pay for those. Also, the phone company would bill for all revenue lost as a result of the outage. This particular wire billed out at around $50,000/ minute.... :eek:

[BRL]

LOL Now you reminded me of some of my headaches. Around here they outsource the locating to companies that are not utilities, simply locaters. And I guess since they do not have to repair, or have knowledge about what is involved with the work we are doing, the danger involved, etc. etc., suffice it to say their work can be quite less than satisfactory at times. I have heard from many fellow contractors about mismarked stuff & stuff not marked, and I have experienced it first hand. In the cases I experienced I was lucky enough to "know better" & knew where stuff hadn't been marked correctly. But that certainly won't be the case everytime, so one still has to be quite diligent even with a mark out.

[badranman]

Just wondering how long on average does one have to wait for the variuos utility companies to come out and mark a site once you've called?

[Steve Frazier]

I don't know if this is national, but in NY underground utilities must be marked within 48 hours of your phone call. I usually call about a week ahead just to be sure.

[BRL]

I wish that was national! Here in NJ it is call at least 3 business days before you want to dig. And they usually don't count the call in day. So the soonest I ever get clearance is 4 days, but more often 5. But if you call within 1-2 weeks of any Holidays, you can count on 6 - 7 business days before you have clearance :rolleyes:
And like I posted above, most of it is subcontracted to mark out companies that do all of the utilities in one shot (or the vast majority at least), instead of waiting for 6 or 7 different utilities to show up. I would think that would make the system more efficient & that there should be no problem having a 48 hour policy? But like I mentioned, the negative to this system is those companies don't do such a good job many times. And based on my neighbors to the north, they take way too long also.

Disclaimer: I only need a few mark outs per year. I would bet the guys that are getting them all the time probably receive better service?

[Steve Frazier]

This is getting more interesting!

Here we make our call, then each individual utility for the area is contacted. Next I get either a phone call from each utility stating "All clear" where they have no service to the area, or a visit by each individual utility marking their own lines. All this coordination is required to occur within 48 hours of my call!

I feel fortunate not having a job tied up for marking after hearinmg this.

[Rob]

The times I have had to have this done, the individual utilities come out. (Or a company on their behalf) and marks their lines or writes a NO XXXX (i.e. CATV) on the street in front of the house. I was told marks are only good for 30 days if I am remembering correctly, then it has to be remarked

A funny aside about that. The company marking underground telephone in front of my house for a road project that was supposed to take 2 years. Was marked every 6 weeks or so with flags in the median grass strip. They put in a new flag everytime, never took any out, or dated them or anything, just stuck a new one in next to the previous one each time. Eventually looked like bouquets of flowers out there.

[Stonehenge]

Marks are only good for ten days in Wisconsin, no phonecalls are made to me, unless the person marking has a question. If all clear, a clear flag is placed for that utility in the general area.

The marking work is farmed out to private companies - a more senior guy is used to mark gas and electric, a junior guy for cable and phone.

When we call they give us an 'Ok to dig' time and date, and we are free to do our work after that point, though I had one occasion where 10 days after the locate request, I was called and asked if I still needed the lot marked...uhh....what? We had already finished our work, and had assumed there were no utilities in our work area because there was nothing marked there.

As I understand our rules, it would have been the marking company's dime if we had severed any lines, but that would have been of little help if someone had clipped an electric line or a gas line while smoking. :mad:

[Steve Frazier]

I had an incident yesterday that fits this topic. I'm working a job installing a sidewalk in a new high end development. The phone cable was buried underneath the area I needed to dig. I had visited the site prior to the cables being buried, plus the site supervisor made a field visit and confirmed where the utilities were buried. With this information in hand I didn't feel the need for a mark out.

We started digging with hand tools and discovered the phone line down 4" and began following it back to where we could move it from our excavation area. About 5' along, conditions became very rocky and my laborer called me over to show me the damaged phone cable he had hit with the pick. The builder had backfilled with very rocky material, the largest rock we pulled was about 18" diameter and layed directly on the cable!

I called the phone company about the damage and was scolded for not having a mark out down. I tried to explain the situation, but it made no difference to her, we hadn't had the mark out done. She said to tell my story to the repairman.

This morning the repairman arrived, got out of his truck shaking his head, "You guys have got to call!" Again I explained what had happened, but he remained focused on the lack of mark out. I would be responsible "because of the markout", so I asked what would happen if I had had the mark out and damaged the line with hand tools. I'd still be responsible.

I next asked about the proper installation of the phone line and pointed to the pile of rocks. He said it should have been buried with the electric service and looked like an afterthought. I said I had another 20 feet to uncover and questioned the sense of making a repair before I was done and the repairman agreed to return after I was finished.

After thinking about our discussion, I made a call to the homeowner to contact the builder about the method of installation. If the line had been installed correctly, we wouldn't have damaged it. After uncovering the full length we needed, it appeared that the line was just laid on the lawn and then the lawn was backfilled, there was no evidence of a trench whatsoever. I'm trying to get the builder to foot the repairs, I'll keep you posted on my success.

I guess the moral would be to get a markout regardless of your situation, it will save you some explaining in the long run.

[cat320]

Well I have a good one a while back I was building a retaining wall in fron of a house so I called digsafe as I should and I marked out where i would be diging.They had come out marked every think out and now I could see where the underground utilities went in to the old house.Now I know the depth that the utilities should be and since i was using versa lock block and I was not going very high I did not have to dig very deep.So as I was just sratching the bottom of the hill with the teeth on my backhoe to make a flat trench for the block to sit in I saw the grounf move funny now mind you I was only as deep as the teeth of the bucket no deeper.SO I got out and started to hand dig to see what it was.Low and behold the gas line only burried 4 -6" deep.I did not rip it out of the ground but just moved it a little but to be on the safe side i called at the time Boston Gas they came out and started in on me about it was marked and that it would be costing me $$$$ to have them replace and to have them there then to check for leaks.Well funny thing happened when I started getting P/O about how close it was and telling the jerk that it should of been 24" down and not the 4" that it was . He then said we will treat this as a relocate and will not cost me anything.But if I did not speak up he would of billed me for some one elses srew up.

[Landman]

We have had many problems with this service. last year we pulled a 4" gas main out of the ground becase the sub contracting markout co for the gas comany did not measure properly and was off by about 6'. we did not break the line but called anyway. let me tell you about a show fire, police, gas co, city trucks and every utility under the sun. the dumb a$$ from the markout co admitted that he marked it wrong. As BRL said it takes 3 days for a markout minimum in NJ you need a markout for everything including rip out of driveways, sprinkler installation, even a post hole. we just finished a job today that we had called for a mark out last wed and were authorized to start Monday, today is Thursday we finished the job yesterday MCI just sent the fax to us today that there is conflict in the area and to call the regional service dept to speak to a supervisor before we start work. Now if we are supposed to follow rules and guielines for this shouldn't the utilites have to comply as well??? they wouldn't hesitate to point the finger if something went wrong even though they should have notified us 3 days ago!!!!

[killdozer]

Good stuff, fellas! If you havn't figured it out by now, this is it. CALL OR TAKE A CHANCE ON LOSING YOUR BUSINESS! The company I work for calls in at least three business days before breaking ground. They also have a policy of having one of the office personnel re-call the job every two weeks until it is finished. This last one has saved us a lot of money. Sometimes a job may continue for two years or more (for instance: a housing development) and other contractors and builders on the job have destroyed the markers. Many times the utilities don't like to keep coming out to locate and relocate lines but if we hit one and they havn't complied with the markout call it's on them, not us. This goes even for lines which we have installed and the proper authorities have taken over (sewer, water, etc.). We just hit a 4 " gas main last month and it took the gas company over 2 hrs. to find a shutoff and get it shut off. The valve was almost a half mile away. Imagine paying for all that gas! It didn't happen because we had the records of the call being made for the markout. On this one the gas company called in a crew and dug up the line about fifty feet from where it was broken and pinched it shut with a hydraulic tool until the repair was made. They didn't want to have to relight every gas appliance between the break and the valve a half-mile away.

[digger242j]

You know, the way they repond is funny sometimes. Yesterday I dug for a storm sewer connection. The existence of a 12" water main very close to the storm sewer main was known to the all the interested parties, but the information the contractor got back from the one call system from the owner of that main (Pittsburgh Water and Sewer Authority), was "no response". I did end up exposing the main, and it's clear by looking that it that it runs directly beneath the loading dock that they built there last week....


:beatsme


They also have a policy of having one of the office personnel re-call the job every two weeks until it is finished.

That sounds like a *really* good policy...

[BRL]

That's not just a policy one should have here, but the law. We have 10 days to do the work once we have the clearance. If the project goes longer you have to re call for a mark out, even though you might know that no other work has happened at that location during that period.

Like Landman mentioned, homeowners & contractors alike are supposed to call in here, even to put in a mailbox, or dig a garden, or most often in my case, plant shrubs & trees.

A week or 2 ago I was channel surfing and landed on a cool looking construction scene & had to stop. Turned out to be an "infomercial" about our One Call system. It was on the local cable access channel, and lasted at least 11 minutes. I thought it was interesting to come across that.

[Countryboy]

After thinking about our discussion, I made a call to the homeowner to contact the builder about the method of installation. If the line had been installed correctly, we wouldn't have damaged it. After uncovering the full length we needed, it appeared that the line was just laid on the lawn and then the lawn was backfilled, there was no evidence of a trench whatsoever. I'm trying to get the builder to foot the repairs, I'll keep you posted on my success.

So did the builder pay for the damage?

Just wondering because a friend of mine is now in pretty much the same boat.

[d4c24a]

do you not have your own locating equipment here in the uk we are not allowed to dig without 1 plans 2 a cable locating tool (cat)http://www.ritelite.co.uk/index.htm?utilities/cable-laying/cscope-locators.htm&content i am currently working in the city of london replacing victorian water mains i have to dig around - under everything from a 1" gas line to a 24"high pressure pipe ,33 thousand volt cables,telephone ducting anything from i duct to a block of 24 mostly fibreoptics and to top it all we have the bomb damage holes from WW2 that were backfilled with anything it keeps me on my toes:yup when i return to work i will take some photos

[Countryboy]

OK, long story short and this would not happen to anybody but him. My friend is an electrician. A lady called him to install some lighting at the end of the driveway in the form of 2 lamp posts.

Now this house was only built about 2 months ago. The whole lot had already been located twice during the course of building which has been verified by the builder. The grade had also been built up near the road about 2-3 ft. by the landscaper because of drainage issues.

So he did his electrician thing and installed the lights at the end of the driveway. He used posthole diggers to dig the holes for the poles and some Quick-crete to secure them. He rented a walk-behind trencher to lay the cable for the lights. Still no problem yet...

The problem comes in when the lady wants the small concrete walls on the side of the driveway removed and my buddy just happens to have a jackhammer on the back of his truck from a previous job. Always willing to help, he says I can do it.

These walls are only about 2' high by 4' long by 2' wide and filled with dirt and topsoil. The walls were about 4" in the ground. These were put there by the builder for the sole purpose of having flowers at the end of the driveway.

The locate flags showed a water main under the walls but the landscaper had brought the grade up about 2-3 ft. near the road. He shouldn't even be close to the watermain with the extra depth the landscaper added by raising grade. He was only going down 4" max.

He finished breaking up the first side with no problems. After breaking up most of the second side all he had left was one of the corners. He was chipping at that when all the sudden water was 15' in the air. Turns out that the landscaper covered a fire hydrant when he raised the grade and the top of it was just a couple inches below the bottom of the walls. Of course the city wanted to be paid but I told him he needs to get the city after the landscaper.

How was he supposed to know that was there? The second set of locate flags was only 4 months old. Its one of them boobie-traps that stupid people leave behind when they don't know what they are doing:mad: .

[digger242j]

Technically, he's responsible for everything from the surface down, and required to get a locate. Now, whoever did the locate was obviously clueless to have missed the fact that there was supposed to be a hydrant there, and it wasn't.


He actually did the city, the homeowner, and the neighborhood a favor. WHAT IF THERE HAD BEEN A FIRE?? No fire hydrant, and the house burns down. The landscaper needs to be in jail...

[Steve Frazier]

In my case the homeowner went to bat for me. He had just paid megabucks for his home and was not happy to learn of how his phone line was installed. I don't know who ended up paying for the repair, but it wasn't me. It probably was the General Contractor for the subdivision project.

In your case, if they can prove the landscaper covered the hydrant I would imagine he will be facing charges, possibly even criminal charges. That's a serious matter.

As for the damage, I'm afraid it will come down on your friend. Push come to shove, I would have been responsible for the damage to the phone line in the end had the homeowner not stepped in. These mark out laws only seem to reduce the chance of damage, not absolve anyone of responsibility.

[Countryboy]

Well he does have the homeowner and the builder on his side. The builder was the one who subbed out the landscaping to the landscaper and the lady who bought the house is not happy either.

I checked my hydrant map today. Funny thing is that the hydrant was marked on the map but my fire dept. had not done their quarterly hydrant inspection yet. Seems the landscaper had covered the hydrant about a week after the last inspection and the next inspection is actually due in about 15 days. I'm glad I don't have that luck.

I told him he should of let me check my hydrant map before he started digging.....:bouncegri

I also went to the Sheriff's Office and filed a report per department regulations for "criminal negligence with the intent to harm" against the landscaper. That's the charge you get for intentionally damaging hydrants.

I think the blame is now swinging the other way.:yup We will find out Monday.

[LowBoy]

All this talk about gas lines, water mains, sewers, fiber optical illusions, etc. is giving me the heebie-jeebies. :eek:

I've been digging eastern Rennselaer County, NY and southwestern Vermont since 1991, and the only thing I've hit so far is a multi-pair phone line that was called upon (to DigSafe,) by me and given clearance. I was 6 feet down in behind a restaurant, digging in fill that was trucked in who knows how long ago, when I noticed something moving funny down in the hole. It was a main line for the phone company, about 50 pairs in diameter. Uh Oh... I took a look around, went to my truck and got 2 rolls of 3M tape and started twistin' & tapin'...That was in 1994, and other than a conversation I overheard in the local-yokel diner one morning soon after that incident that this guy's phone seemed to be a little "crackly" lately, I never heard another thing.:yup

Since then, I've found some old drywells, a couple of cars, and lots of boulders the size of a small house. A month ago I rented a little 305 Cat excavator to replace my personal septic tank with a new polyethelene one, because the original 500 gal. steel one was discinagrated. As the plastic one is much bigger, I had to make a bigger hole, and wouldn't you know, a boulder that is the same size as the new tank, right in line with the whole deal.The little 305 worked it's little tail off, couldn't pull it out, so I had to dig around it, flip it in the hole, repeat, etc. until I finally got it out. Now it is a lawn ornament out back, as I pushed it about 50 feet away, and now "Pouncer" the 1/2 beagle, 1/2 shepard 1 yr. old wonderdog has a 3-5 ton perch to sit up on now to get a better view...

That was a lot of work just to give Pouncer a place to sit, but the moral to the story is...If that's as bad as it gets, I'm doing O.K....:thumbsup

Just to mention, I lived in the "city" before this, and worked in all those conditions too, so this is like a vacation that never ends.

[greywynd]

I'm fairly fortunate here too, mostly rural work, biggest thing I have to watch out for is septic systems.....and darned if I can find any locate service for them yet. Phone here I don't get too worried about, generally you know if you're near it, and if you hit it, well.....there's always some extra line and tape behind the seat of the truck. Splice it up, and in a year or two when the static gets bad, the phone company just runs a new line anyway.

We do get some work around gas lines, almost always residential feeds. I always have these located....and anything else at the same time. I actually have a sheet made up with the list of appropriate numbers, and leave the responsibility up to the home owner....I'll tell them the dates I plan on doing the job, and they can call for the locate. If it's not done, I generally call the owner the day before) I do something else....the owner now gets put at the bottom of the list for their job.

Since I do a lot of small jobs, I sometimes will do 2-3 different jobs in a day. (My record was 5, all sono tube holes for decks for different people With my minimum charge, I made about 18 hours pay in 10-11 hours that day.) When you're working in so many different places, it's impossible to watch out for all the underground hazards. I have actually been digging at places while the locate service was there, basically 'followed' them as they gave marked things out in the area we were digging in, I was loading the excavator before he was finished packing up and doing paperwork.

Mark

[dayexco]

in south dakota, if you start digging before the locates have been made, you are first issued a written warning from the one call board of directors. the 2nd time, they fine you $500.

[jimsbcs]

I live in rural northwestern North Dakota, farms and oil wells. I wouldn't dig anything without doing the one call. Which has to be called in 48 buisness hrs. before any digging. and is only good for 72 hrs. after its marked. You would not believe all the fiberglass. plastic and old steel gas, flow lines, oil lines, etc around this part of ND.
Last year I put up a new shop in my yard, did one call and discovered a 6"-1300# gas lift line (from 1950's)underneath my garage (which was still live) that the previous owner had put up 12 years earlier! The line has been removed from service now. One call has only been going on around here since late 90's
Ps I live way out in the open country 10 miles from neariest town. I have lines all around my house.
I get lots of people wanting post holes or water lines dug on their farms and I say as soon as the one call is done, I will be there.
I really like the one call system, Jim