'Stone Quarry Stripping

[jazak]

Here are fensoncont. 's pics.....

[jazak]

and more........

[jazak]

..................

[Lashlander]

Nice pics! :thumbsup

[Ford LT-9000]

Looks a little cold there :bouncegri

It is neat to see how you guys in the US have jobs like that reshaping parts of the planet :laugh

[jimmyjack]

watcha doin there:confused:

[Blademan]

Looks a little cold there :bouncegri

It is neat to see how you guys in the US have jobs like that reshaping parts of the planet :laugh

Uh .... you should see the environmental disaster being created up in northern Alberta . Now that's something to be proud of :rolleyes: :Banghead :Banghead

[jazak]

Looks a little cold there :bouncegri

It is neat to see how you guys in the US have jobs like that reshaping parts of the planet :laugh

1- I wasn't these are; fensoncont. 's pics

2- I disagree with strip mining.

3- I would NEVER no matter what the pay work for a company that strip mines..one day its going to come back to bight us in the azz.......KARMA's a B!tch!!!!

:Banghead :Banghead :Banghead :Banghead :Banghead

[Lashlander]

1- I wasn't these are; fensoncont. 's pics

2- I disagree with strip mining.

3- I would NEVER no matter what the pay work for a company that strip mines..one day its going to come back to bight us in the azz.......KARMA's a B!tch!!!!

:Banghead :Banghead :Banghead :Banghead :Banghead

What do you propose we do instead?:confused:

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am not a big beleiver about changing the earths landscape especially now with what they are saying about global warming.


Blademan I also don't really agree with what is happening in Alberta with the greed of money stripping the oil sands.

[jazak]

What do you propose we do instead?:confused:

1- you could drill
2- you could find other energy sources (which are UNLIMITED if you open your mind)

Overall #2 is the best answer......

[Lashlander]

1- you could drill
2- you could find other energy sources (which are UNLIMITED if you open your mind)

Overall #2 is the best answer......

I'm not trying to get into anything here, This is a gravel pit! I use gravel products. I'll probably use gravel products for the rest of my career. I work in marine construction so I don't use as much as most companies but I still use them. So if I am part of the problem I guess I'll not try to bad mouth them.

Back to the topic. Like I said in my first post on this thread, Fenson, nice pictures!

[Countryboy]

I disagree with strip mining.

When you can show me how to suck solid granite through a metal tube I'll change my opinion but until then, strip mining is the way to go at a granite quarry. :yup

Great pics Fenson. :thumbsup

[jazak]

Sorry guys I screwed up.....I was think coal mining...my bad.....here there is soo much granite that whenever they put in a house the probobly take out atleast 2 tandem axle truck loads of it.....

[06bowtie_guy]

Well BC has those greedy forestry companies that clear cut a forest for it to rain and wash all the earth away.

Anyways on those scrapers that is some type of coupler system for when they get stuck?? Kinda cool. :thumbsup Better than getting the cable out and hooking it up to each machine.

[alan627b]

What you are looking at are called push-pull scrapers. 2 scrapers work as a team to load.
The main parts include
1) a spring cushioned push block on the tractor of the scraper,
2) a hydraulically raised/lowered loop, called a bail, also on the nose of the tractor, and
3) an extended push block on the rear of the scraper itself, which also includes a large hook and radiator protector. Push pull scrapers have the frame areas beefed up as well.
The lead unit sets in and locks down his cushion hitch, and begins to load, and the second unit sets in behind him. The second machine lowers the bail over the hook on the rear of the lead machine, and applies throttle, assisting the lead machine to load.
When the lead machine is loaded, he raises his bowl, and the second machine lowers his to loading position, taking over the cut where the lead left off, which makes for a smooth cut if done right. After he is loaded, he raises his bowl, and both machines head seperately to the fill to dump, and the priocess starts all over again.
At least in theory, anyway.
If you look closely at the scrapers in the pictures, one or two of them have the bails broken. If the the operators can't work smoothly with each other ,
a lot of damage can result. Matching speeds between the 2 scrapers can be tricky, especially in rough terrain. Add fozen soil. like you see in these pics, makes it even harder. Or a lack of brakes, common in older scrapers.

The older scrapers (up til the F series, I think) have a 3 position lever, next to the seat. The G series uses a toggle switch in the scraper control switch.
Position 1 is the carry or haul position, the bail will be raised and the hitch unlocked, free to rise and fall, and be cushioned by the Nitrogen accumulator cylinder, a nitrogen over hydraulic system that cushions the hitch.
Position 2 is the lockdown position, the hitch lowers and locks solid, to enable a steady cut depth. Also useful for dragging a fill down, or when a precise fill depth is required.
Position 3 lowers the bail, when loading. When the second machine is loading, with the bail firmly set, the operator pulls the lever back to the second position. When the load comes off, and the tail machine accelerates, the bail will rise automatically.
It makes the most sense to shift manually into second gear, or in the case of these modern units, flipping the toggle switch which turns on an interlock that activates when the machine automatically shifts down. A manual hold, if you will.
If you work with one of those guys who doesn't use it, and nails the throttle as soon as he feels the load come off the second unit, the guy in the back has to chase the lead until there is some slack between the two units, to allow the bail to rise. It can make for a wild ride, believe me!
It's not impossible, in a rough cut, for the second machine to run up over the back of the stinger on the lead machine, and take the radiator out! I have seen this, it's not pretty....guard or not!
In one case, on a winter job I was on, a guy was nosing over a 3 foot drop off, trying to get under the frost. Another guy came along and thought he'd lend a hand, which was a mistake...about the time the tail machine was about to bump the lead machine, the leader found a fracture in the frost, which sucked the cutting edge in and overpowered the hydraulics, and sucked the bowl all the way down.
The drop off, and this deal, put the tail of the lead machine up in the air, and the second machine drove right underneath! It cleaned off everything, all the way back to the cab, and did about $15000 damage to the tail machine.
Kinda wierd, to come into the cut, and see the lead scraper sitting with its rear tires 7 feet off the ground, resting on top of the second machine!:eek: I think the tailgater got fired because of it....the lead guy didn't even know the other guy was back there, until it was too late....you can imagine how thrilled the mechanics were...::cussing
Try push-pulling with scrapers with worn out hitches, and watch the fun.....
Been There! Done That! Hated every minute of it....
Otherwise, push pulling, done properly, really makes the dirt fly and actually makes the operator's day easier, it sure beats sawing your arm off self loading...
I'm done for now, my fingers hurt...LOL! Hope this helps,
alan627b

[Countryboy]

Very informative alan627b. Thanks. :thumbsup

[alan627b]

Glad to be of service.....

[Grader4me]

Glad to be of service.....

Yes, very interesting and informative! I have never operated a scraper in my life, but after reading your post, I think that I'm ready to give her a try! Good stuff...thanks:)

[06bowtie_guy]

Glad to be of service.....

Very good post, thanks for the info. I spend most time on underground equipment so never would have known that.

Actually to add to that, we don't have scrapers around here. Everywhere is rock so we blast to level terrain.

[Dozerboy]

Cool pics and thats some nice iron

Yes, very interesting and informative! I have never operated a scraper in my life, but after reading your post, I think that I'm ready to give her a try! Good stuff...thanks:)

Ya you don't know what you’re missing :badidea it would be fun for the first 20 mins. A blade hand that actually wants to run something else that's little odd, but if you ever do run a scraper make sure it’s a push/pull.

[alan627b]

but if you ever do run a scraper make sure it’s a push/pull.


If nothing else, a push pull equipped scraper rides better, than the same model without it...sometimes it's the only fun ride on a job, especially if you have bladed haul roads...if you don't....don't be in a hurry to get off the blade!
And don't do this....
http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=259&page=2
alan627b

[Grader4me]

Cool pics and thats some nice iron



Ya you don't know what you’re missing :badidea it would be fun for the first 20 mins. A blade hand that actually wants to run something else that's little odd, but if you ever do run a scraper make sure it’s a push/pull.


LOL..I said that I was ready to give it a try because of how descriptive his post was. Wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time on one. Any piece of equipment that I have never operated, given the opportunity I would as Deas Plant once said.....sit my ample bottom in the operators seat:yup

[alan627b]

A scraper is hard on you, but how hard depends on the operator...I was always told, if it gets rough, slow down...too many young guys are cowboys, let the foreman scare them into going full tilt whether it's really safe to or not...if I am spending more time in the air than in the seat, it's too rough!
The folks I work for, own a lot of junk, er....well used equipement....
and frequently, if I want a haul road, I have to build one myself, cuz' the blade is on another job... sometimes they think a scraper can do anything, including taking down trees, which I've done in various ways.....
Still. if you get a chance, run one, if nothing else, just to see what the other guy does...
I'd like to try a track hoe someday.....or another NEW scraper....
alan627b

[Dozerboy]

Alan if you don't mind my asking who do you work for? It sound like the company I worked for in Omaha it began with a G...I just can't think of the name we did the 75 south of Nebraska City.

[Mass-X]

Great post Alan, I wish all the scraper hands I've had on my crews were as astute as you.

While I've not seen anything quite a crazy as you describe, working as scraper foreman can make for some interesting experiences.

I still remember the operator who tried to explain to me his logic of taking his 637 off a 1 1/2:1 slope.

If you want to ditch that old iron, head out here. With the white-hot construction industry around here companies have to run G series scrapers (with a couple F's floating around) if they expect to keep operators.

I know I'd sure hire you in a heartbeat, I doubt you'd be the one to see what it's like to rear-end a 627 in 3rd gear in a 657.

Ahhh... scraper hands.

[alan627b]

I work for Negus and Sons, inc. out of Omaha.
Other outfits in the area are
McArdle Grading
JAM grading (new)
Commercial Grading (Lincoln)
M&M Construction (Plattsmouth)
Anderson Wrecking and Excavating
MacAninch Des Moines (in our area lately)

No longer around are
M&S Grading
Ed Miller and Sons
Dollen Grading
probably others I've forgotten...

M&S was the big stick around here for awhile, but poor management by new owners, and undercutting the bid prices to get jobs, to the point that it was hard for anyone to make money on moving a yard of dirt, drove them down the drain!
Now I have to face an uncertain future of our union local, and I don't want to go back to the $14 an hour days....that would be a huge step backward...
alan627b

[alan627b]

Yikes, MassX, what's the story on that one? I always wondered if anyone had ever tried to push pull with mis-matched scraper sizes, or even different brands of the same size. All anyone uses around here is Cat, for the most part. 3rd gear, ouch!
I might be looking for a better job in the future, as I am getting (literally) of running worn out junk, and working for an outfit that does things so ass backwards. I didn't get into operating to be a 2nd rate operator, but I feel like my learning curve has stalled.
I know if I work for someone else, they are probably going to have to re-train me "their way".
Although, working for this outfit has given me an opportunity to do a lot of things most outfits would never use a scraper for, and although I don't claim to be a finish hand, there are times when I've been the finish guy, because I am reliable, and have a good work ethic.
And, I can pass a drug test, which has kept me working when a lot of my co-workers can't. Something that will become more important in the future, I'll bet.
What part of the country are you in, MassX? Need an operator?
Alan Hynes
alan627nb

1.5 to 1 is too steep, no matter how you slice it!:jawdrop
Another forward thinking outfit I found surfing..
Dwire Excavating
link http://www.dwirex.com/fleet.shtml

[Mass-X]

I had a D6LGP finishing the subgrade on a 60’ 1 ½:1 slope and he had hit small section of hard material, about 20’ square in the center of the slope. He didn’t have a ripper to break it and trim it out, so I told him to leave it and we’d cover it with topsoil.

The scraper operator said he was attempting to take that little hump out. It kinda worked, but I was a lot more concerned when I caught something out of the corner of my eye and saw that 637 go off the top and miraculously keep itself on the slope. Nerve wracking experience nonetheless.

The 657 rear-ending the 627’s was just operator negligence. We were working in shot rock so I’d split the scrapers up and was putting them through the cuts individually with a D9 and D10 pushing (to save on tires).

The 627 (a really good operator) had gone in between the two dozers to self-load in a vein of softer material. I’d put a fairly inexperienced operator in the 657 to get him used to a tandem-engine machine before I broke him into push-pulling. He decided to follow the 627 and give push-pulling a try. He said he was “accidentally” going too fast when he engaged the 627 but I was pretty sure he thought it’d be funny to goose the lead machine.

Needless to say, the 627 operator went to hospital to make sure the whiplash was only minor. I fired the 657 operator. And the 627 had to have a cutting edge put back on as the impact of the hit in the rocky material sheared the bolts and popped it off.

Dwire Excavating sounds like a helluva outfit. I’m fascinated by all those painted and good condition Terex’s. I’ve never seen a Terex scraper look that good.

I’m in Salt Lake City, Utah. The construction industry is booming out here. Each summer there are 3-4 pages in the Sunday paper looking for work; about half are looking for operators. The local union runs a full page ad in each paper asking for operating engineers to come sign up.

Good scraper operators are treated like gold around here.

I’ll PM you some details

[tylermckee]

Another forward thinking outfit I found surfing..
Dwire Excavating
link http://www.dwirex.com/fleet.shtml

Enter Dwire Earthmoving and Excavating. Embracing this technology to enhance efficiency and accuracy, Dwire recently moved over 1,000,000 cubic yards of dirt on a new Super Target pad site development headed by Bryan Construction and Continental Properties. Pad site grade certification was achieved on the first attempt WITHOUT the use of surveyors or stakes. Excellent production rates, adherence to schedule, grade accuracy, and ease in conducting business were but a few of the outstanding traits this company displayed. Kudos.

Sign me up :cool:

[alan627b]

I think the only way I'd even think about going on a 1.5-1 slope, would be if I could cut it straight down, and didn't have a "beak" on the tractor. Probably a moot point, since you'd have to have
A) brakes, something I'm not used to and
B) non push pull scraper and
C) you'd still have to come off the top at an angle, bowl all the way up, and then turn downhill, so as not to get hung up on the top of the slope.
I've never run a 637, but I have run a 631D, and I personally think a 627 is a more manuverable machine. I don't think you could get me to take a 621 or 631 up on a steep slope, as the tractor has to drag the whole thing along, which tends to make for a tire spinning, tractor hopping experience...just what you want, when hanging off the side of a cliff, by your fingernails!
And I think having the rear engine/trans, weighing down the rear axle, helps keep the rig up on the slope. 3-1's don't bother me at all in a 627, unless it's frozen or wet and loose, but the few times I tried it in a 621, made me very nervous. Not to mention, singles are made for dirt hogging, and ride like xxxx.
Gimme a twin any day! I just wish I'd gotten a chance to run a 3 axle scraper, I'd always heard they rode so much better.
alan627b

[fensoncont.]

Sorry I haven't been on in awhile guys.

Thanks for all the nice comments!!

[Mass-X]

There was a haul road running a ridgeline, off one side was about 50' of natural ground at about a 2.5:1, then the catch point of the 1.5:1 slope.

The toe of the slope was rounded off from the excess material that the D6 had trimmed out of it so he didn't sink his nose into the ground when he came off the bottom.

When the 637 came off the top he was able to keep his can high enough to prevent from cutting into the catch.

I'm just impressed (if that's the word?) he was able to keep the machine completely straight. On a slope that steep it wouldn't take much sideways angle at all (or a little too much material to one side of the can) to bring the scraper over sideways.

Speaking of those tri-axle scrapers; the grading superintendent I work under used to be a rep for Terex doing all the triple-can scraper sales. He has a bunch of pictures of the old triple TS-24's. Even some of them coming down off 2:1 slopes, triples working in tandem. Pretty crazy looking machines. But as he said himself; there's a reason that they died.

[alan627b]

You ought to try and get some copies of those pictures, as I've never heard of a triple bowl Euclid...I know they used to have TTS14's, I watched them when I lived in Missouri. But a triple bowl? I thought only LeTourneau did that, and Peterson Tractor did that with 657's for the california Aqueduct.
I'd like to see those pics...
alan627b

[Lashlander]

I found this pic of one in Euclid and Terex Earth Moving Machines by Eric C Orlemann.

[alan627b]

Duh....
Thanks, Lashlander, I forgot about that one, and I have the same book...
Thats a triple TS14. if memory serves...I suppose someone probably built a TTS24, somwhere down the line.
alan627b

[Lashlander]

Ya, It says a tandem TS 14 with extra bowl attached. The only other triple bowl I see is one produced by Western Contracting. It doesn't look like it would be the handiest of items. I bet it could move some dirt in the right situation though.

[Countryboy]

:eek: Wow, now thats a scraper. Thanks for the pics Lashlander. :usa

[alan627b]

I think Western called that a TSS40, I'd have to go dig the book out...I'd hate to have to turn that thing around....rigs like this, make it obvious why Peterson Tractor innovated the push-pull arreangement!
I saw a pic of one of those massive 3 bowl LeTourneau units, an LT290 (?) and the best thing I could see it being good for, was keeping a muffler salesman employed! It must have had over 30.....they did things big in the old days!
alan627b

[Mass-X]

That Euclid/Terex machine that Lashlander posted is just like the ones that my superintendent has shown me. With the TSS24's being larger.

I don't think I need any firsthand experience to know I'd prefer twin engines running push/pull instead of those machines.