how to determin what size truck to pull a trailer? [Archive]

cat320

11-07-2003, 02:10 PM

If you buy a used machine like a bobcat S185 and have a pickup would you be better off to upgrade the truck ?Or would it be ok to to use your pickup? This is just a a question in gerenal I do not have a bobcat.Then you have to get a trailer better to get a beefed up on that will carry more than just that machine if you upgrade truck later?

So probably what i'm trying to say and doing a bad job at it is do you buy everything piecemail one by one to fit your needs now or do you just go out and get the heavier truck and trailer for like an upgrade to a mine exc. like a 341 for example?

paulsoccodato

11-09-2003, 03:08 PM

thats a good question, with a number of different answers.

it depends on a number of different factors, like budget, and neccesity.

but let me say what happend to me.

i first bought my skid-loader, and payed to have it moved, but that was always a pain, so i bought a 5 ton trailer to pull behind my 1 ton pickup, then i bought a backhoe for the skid, then tracks.

with everything on the skid, i figure it weighs close to 9000 pounds. never had any problems with the set-up (besides always having underpowered trucks).

this summer, i bought a volvo ec55 excavator, it weighs around 11,000 lbs.too heavy for my trailer now, so i ordered a new 7 ton trailer, and will be trading in the 5 ton.

i guess the best thing to do is just to upgrade your equipment as you grow.

Steve Frazier

11-09-2003, 09:25 PM

The larger truck will tow the set up much safer. I move my machine with both my F-350 SRW and my F-550, the 550 is much more stabile during towing. There are GCVW specs from your truck manufacturer that will dictate your needs.

Dusty

11-10-2003, 09:16 PM

it is best to have at least a dually pickup or bigger if u are trying to tow around 10,000lb and balance the load 4 best handeling oh and good brakes on the trailer if u over do what u think u can tow u will find out what jackknife is

Dirt Diggler

10-28-2004, 06:24 PM

The Truck weight- #8840 (both tanks full of fuel) (F-350)
Trailer- #5800
Dozer- #21800
I can haul this legally in Mississippi

John Banks

10-29-2004, 09:18 AM

Nice setup. Here in CT, you would need a Class A CDL. I passed a guy the other day with an F-350 pulling a trailer with a Bobcat mini excavator and a Bobcat skid steer. I don't remember the machine model #s, but he was easily over 10k lbs. on the trailer. I wondered if he had a Class A...

Another contractor we have worked with has an F-650 and pulls a JD 310. He has NO Class A. His attitude is that he doesn't really care since he moves the machine usually at night or on the weekends, mainly to try and avoid DOT.

I told him that if he gets caught, not only will they shut him down, but I believe it's a $5,000.00 fine for driving without the proper class license.

Electra_Glide

10-29-2004, 12:11 PM

John,

I too have often wondered how many of the guys you see going down the road towing skid-steers and mini excavators are legal. I don't know about CT., but here in PA, it's not just the DOT you have to be worried about. Get pulled over for any reason (speeding, running a stop sign, broken tail light, etc.), by any law-enforcement agency and you're still in the same boat.

Funny this thread popped back up to the top, as I'm currently contemplating the same dilema that cat320 first asked about. Do I go out and get a 10000lb trailer and a medium-sized skid-steer that I can pull behind my existing truck (Dodge Ram 2500), or do I upgrade my truck for the future and get a bigger trailer and skid-steer.

Of course, if I go to a bigger truck/trailer/skidsteer combo then a class A CDL will be required, which I currently don't have.

I'm currently leaning towards the 10000lb trailer and a smaller skidsteer (Bobcat S175/185 or a Cat 232), but every time I look at the price of that package compared to a larger one I start to have second thoughts. There's just not that much of a price difference!

I wonder what the dealer would give me on trade for my 2001 Dodge 2500? Decisions, decisions, decisions...

Joe

2004F550

10-29-2004, 01:24 PM

Jesus I hope that F350 has some good brakes. Is that a JD 450 or bigger?

Bob Horrell

10-29-2004, 08:43 PM

I would love to upgrade my hauling setup but just can't justify it financially right now. I tow a 26 ft. gooseneck flatbed trailer that weighs between 15K & 18K depending on what I have loaded. I am towing it with a 96 Dodge 3/4T with a cummins motor. The truck has been extensively modified for the job and does quite well. I have over 400hp and over 900ft/lbs torque, an exhaust brake, 10 speed, special wheels and tires, modified brake system, plus other modifications. I have absolutely no problem pulling the weight but am cautious about stopping it. I keep the brakes on the truck and trailer in top shape.
Although the load is much higher than listed by the manufacturer for the truck, my modifications help a lot and I am not overloaded on any axle or tire combination. I do have a Class A CDL so I don't have to worry about DOT. Since I only haul for my business and not for hire, I don't have a MCP (motor carrier permit) for my truck and this helps keep insurance costs down.
Some day I would like to get a dump truck to haul an equipment trailer but for now I will just get along with what I have.
The good news about my setup is the mileage. Towing all that weight, I get about 12 to 13mpg. around the hilly area where I live. If I travel farther by freeway and don't have hills I can get as high as 15mpg. Empty (which is very seldom), I can get 20mpg if I don't drive over 70mph.
My truck is 4 wheel drive and I use it at least 2 or 3 times a week to get the equipment to some of the job sites (lots of hilly dirt roads). I have had some anxious moments on some of these roads but the setup I have has really come through for me. I have a few instances where the road wasn't anything like it was described to me and I had to disconnect the trailer and turn it around with the tractor or bobcat and then reconnect just to get out. You know the kind of road, it starts getting bad and you hope it is only momentary and will get better up ahead. Only it gets worse and worse and pretty soon not only can't you turn around anywhere, but you can hardly go forward anymore. I can think of some instances where I would have been in pretty bad shape with a dump truck.

cat320

10-29-2004, 08:58 PM

Well sice i first posted this i have gotten a skid loader ,a Gehl 4640 and have a cam 5 ton dump trailer and was towint them with my 3/4 ton chevy but have now upgraded to a 2005 F350 diesel pick up .

DKinWA

10-29-2004, 09:17 PM

:eek: At 36,440 pounds, that would get you soooooo busted in the state of Washington. I've gotten to know our local commercial vehicle enforcement officer and I know he'd drop whatever he was doing to pull over a set up like that. At that weight, it looks to be at a minimum of 12,940 lbs over the manufactures GCVW.

Ford Superduty trucks (http://www.ford-trucks.com/specs/2005/2005_Super_Duty_Specs2.pdf) Just scroll down to the GCVW ratings.

The more I think about it, I think our commercial vehicle enforcement officer would skip the ticket and take me straight to jail :D It sure is amazing how laws vary between the states.

Steve Frazier

10-31-2004, 09:17 AM

DKinWA, We'd be in the same trouble here in NY. I wouldn't be surprised if that combination would win you a trip in the back of a patrol car. At the very least, you'd be required to off load to a vehicle rated for that weight with heavy fines involved. In NY I've heard instances where contractors have surrendered their vehicles as some fines can exceed the value of the truck.

max diyer

02-26-2005, 01:37 PM

What it all boils down to is safety. I was a 18-wheeler owner-operator and I hauled machinery & oversized loads coast to coast. I drive for a company & pull a tanker, but I still pull a lowboy, part-time. If you are hauling equipment, law enforcement treats you as a commercial vehicle. That makes it a LOT MORE serious than a pick-up truck & a U-Haul trailer. If you get in a accident, no matter who's at fault, the law will be all over you like flies on "sugar". First, they send you to get drug & alcohol tested. Then they DOT your rig. If they find your rig too small, for what your hauling or if your brakes are bad or some other mechanical reason... your in a heap of trouble. If someone gets killed ... YOUR GOING TO JAIL ! The fines, let alone the law suits, will put you out of business and probably screw-up the majority of, the rest of your life.

Bottom line ... make sure your equipment is MORE THAN adequate to carry what you are hauling. And keep up on your vehicle mantainence.

woberlin

02-26-2005, 09:49 PM

I had a driveshaft break on a fairly steep hill several years ago pulling a bobcat with a 1 ton truck. The brakes on the truck and the electric breaks on the trailer could'nt hold me, and the trailer went over the edge of a 40 foot almost vertical drop. Thank god for the tree that kept the entire rig from going to the bottom. It ripped the hitch right off the truck, and the trailer was straight up and down. Luckily I had the bobcat securely fastened, and it did'nt leave the trailer. Certainly a freak type of accident, but they do happen. I will never pull a trailer with an undersized truck again. Although I don't think I was overloaded in that circumstance. But still something to think about for those that tow equipment with undersize vehicles.

DR RPM

03-12-2005, 08:21 AM

gslam88

03-13-2005, 07:44 PM

will_gurt

03-13-2005, 09:46 PM

Guys,

The CDL licence is a federal licence... so what goes in Alabama goes in NY... just because a cop or dot has not pulled you over does not mean it's leagal....

puling a trailer over 9,999lbs still means you need a cdl class a....

pulling 27k with 8k can be done... but you can still get red tagged for doing it...

Pete
To be exact on this Operating a vehicle greater than 26,000 pounds and/ or towing a trailer greater than 10,000 pounds makes you need a CDL. Using your one ton to pull a 18,000 pound trailer would mean that you need to have a class "A" licence.

CT18fireman

03-14-2005, 12:41 AM

It is getting old how many times the CDL specs have been posted. They haven't changed and I can't see them changing in the near future.

Just because the truck can pull something, doesn't mean it shold or that you are liscenced to.

micah79

03-15-2005, 04:52 AM

Not many people can agree on towing/payload laws. I argue with people about it all of the time. Especially when leaving the salt supply......

DKinWA

03-15-2005, 10:34 AM

After reading this thread, I went back and read the cdl requirements for Washington state and it's pretty clear. I've never understood the confusion over cdl requirements, but it's obviously not clear to everyone. The other one is the air brake endorsement. I argued with a couple of folks that a truck under 26,001 gvw with air brakes (although not a common setup) doesn't require a cdl. We went back and forth for a couple of days and I finally asked a couple of commercial enforcement officers. From their response it was clear they'd been asked this question a few times before. Both clearly said the cdl requirement is based on weight alone and has nothing to do with brake type.

digger242j

03-15-2005, 07:43 PM

I argued with a couple of folks that a truck under 26,001 gvw with air brakes (although not a common setup) doesn't require a cdl.

That's a question that I've always wondered about too. Thanks for finding the answer for me. :)

It is getting old how many times the CDL specs have been posted.

Maybe, but as long as there are people who still aren't clear on them, there's no harm in repeating the information.

DKinWA

03-15-2005, 11:58 PM

Digger,

My comment on the under 26,001 truck with air brakes didn't come across right (I was in need of a nap). The guys I was arguing with said the driver wouldn't need a cdl, but would need to have an air brake endorsement. I was arguing no cdl or air brake endorsement and this was confirmed by both commercial vehicle enforcement officers. I reread this a couple of times and this was what I meant to say :yup

Dwan Hall

03-16-2005, 12:37 AM

Tis true just because it has air brakes does't require a CDL. If it did a lot of motorhome drivers would be in trouble. I see airbrakes on a lot of 40' motorhomes. But then again I have seen a few motorhomes over 26,000 gvw. Wounder ware they fit in?

CT18fireman

03-16-2005, 01:41 AM

Digger, I agree. The problem as I see it is all the wording. Almost provides loopholes just because it is hard to understand. Would be a lot easier for people if the made a chart. <26,000 no CDL >26,000 yes CDL Do it for every category and people would get it. This is what the gov. needs to do.

Electra_Glide

03-16-2005, 08:55 AM

Yep...on the same chart add:

less than 10000gvw trailer = no CDL
greater than 10000gvw trailer = CDL

I hear lots of guys talk about pulling big trailers (18-20k) with their 1-ton pickups and thinking they don't need a CDL since it's a pickup, but they're 100% wrong.

Now, I'll admit that it took me a little time to get my head wrapped around the CDL requirements myself.

Have a great day...

Joe Kantz...who still doesn't have his CDL...

digger242j

03-16-2005, 11:25 AM

So, lemme get this straight--If I'm driving a 26,000 lb bus with seats for 13 passengers and myself, and towing a 10,000 lb GVW trailer that's holding a 1,000 gallon tank, and that tank has 142 gallons of diesel fuel in it, (approximatly 7 lbs/gallon, if my memory serves me correctly), then I don't need a CDL, even if the bus has air brakes? But if one of the passengers is carrying a stick of dynamite, I do... :confused:

Dwan Hall

03-16-2005, 12:30 PM

Digger in that situation I would not need a CDL but a new set of US KIDS.

Electra_Glide

03-16-2005, 02:33 PM

Hey digger,

You drivin' a passenger bus or a school bus...it matters... :)

Joe

digger242j

03-16-2005, 04:29 PM

Well, since kids aren't allowed to have dynamite at school, it must just be a passenger bus.

But I guess that raises the question of whether the driver of a school bus transporting a student who's carrying explosives or ammunition to school has to placard the bus...

Yellowdog

03-16-2005, 05:59 PM

The Truck weight- #8840 (both tanks full of fuel) (F-350)
Trailer- #5800
Dozer- #21800
I can haul this legally in Mississippi
Even though it may be legal the truck is beyond its capacities. The axles are overloaded and the GCWR is exceeded. A lawyer would have a field day if you were in an accident towing that kindof weight with a 1 ton truck. If that truck is older than a 2005, it is only rated to pull about 17k lbs. Trailer and dozer are at 27k +/-, grossly overloaded. The DPS here would require a CDL and a TXDOT certification. That truck would not pass for that kind of weight as it is beyond its capacities. Just an observation.. I have had the same aggravations here.

Yellowdog

03-16-2005, 06:01 PM

Guys,

The CDL licence is a federal licence... so what goes in Alabama goes in NY... just because a cop or dot has not pulled you over does not mean it's leagal....

puling a trailer over 9,999lbs still means you need a cdl class a....

pulling 27k with 8k can be done... but you can still get red tagged for doing it...

Pete

That is only for interstate commerce. Not intrastate. In intrastate in most areas the cutoff is 26,001 lbs. from what I have read and gotten directly from Texas Dept. of transportation.

Yellowdog

03-16-2005, 06:16 PM

Â§ 522.041. CLASSIFICATIONS. (a) The department may
issue a Class A, Class B, or Class C commercial driver's license.
(b) Class A covers a combination of vehicles with a gross
combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross
vehicle weight rating of the towed vehicle or vehicles exceeds
10,000 pounds.
(c) Class B covers:
(1) a single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating of 26,001 pounds or more;
(2) a single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating of 26,001 pounds or more towing a vehicle with a gross
vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less; and
(3) a vehicle designed to transport 24 passengers or
more, including the driver.
(d) Class C covers a single vehicle or combination of
vehicles not described by Subsection (b) or (c) that is:
(1) designed to transport 16-23 passengers, including
the driver; or
(2) used in the transportation of hazardous materials
that require the vehicle to be placarded under 49 C.F.R. Part 172,
Subpart F.
(e) The holder of a commercial driver's license may drive
any vehicle in the class for which the license is issued and lesser
classes of vehicles except a motorcycle or moped. The holder may
drive a motorcycle only if authorization to drive a motorcycle is
shown on the commercial driver's license and the requirements for
issuance of a motorcycle license have been met.

these are Texas guidelines. I suspect they are the same everywhere?

Bob Horrell

03-16-2005, 10:38 PM

OK here is one for you guys in the know about commercial licenses. A guy has a commercial class A license but has an airbrake restriction because the vehicle he took the test in didn't have airbrakes. He has a truck with a GVW of 26,000lbs with airbrakes. Now he tows a trailer in excess of 10,000lbs with electric brakes (no airbrake connections). Is he legal with his airbrake restriction?

woberlin

03-16-2005, 11:29 PM

To answer your question, I think he would be legal. But I highly doubt anyone would get a class A cdl and not the air brake endorsement. To get that endorsement you only have to answer a handfull of rather easy questions on the written portion of the the exam, the one you must take to get your temporary license. As long as you pass that portion of the written test, you have your endorsement, whether or not the vehicle you take the driving portion in has air brakes or not. Also keep in mind that you only need a cdl for a commercially registered vehicle. A private rv, no matter how large does'nt require a cdl. Nor does any size vehicle that is registered for farm use, even including full size tractor trailers.

Bob Horrell

03-25-2005, 06:58 PM

The way it works is once the GCW exceeds 26,000 lbs. or the trailer exceeds 10,000 lbs. the unit becomes "comercial" and it would be illegal to drive the air brake truck with the restriction. When taking a driving test, the unit driven is what determines the final CDL regardless of what written tests are taken (if the airbrake written test is taken and passed, but the test vehicle has no airbrakes = airbrake restriction). To remove a restriction, a driving test must be be retaken. If a year has passed since the CDL was granted, to remove any restriction requires taking all written tests over again and a driving test.
Then reason I know this is it happened to me. My buddy was going to meet me with his dump truck and trailer at the DMV for the driving test. He was late. The inspector asked me what I drove there. I told him that I had a pickup and trailer less than 26,001 gross and the trailer was less than 10,000lbs (I was going to go to a job after the test). He said I could drive what I brought and get the Class A combination but would have an airbrake restriction. That is what I did. Drove that way with a trailer over 10,000lbs for a year and then have to take the whole thing all over again to remove the restriction when getting a dump truck with air brakes.

kostas

10-29-2008, 01:12 PM

The weight limits are much higher up here in the north, we have owned a truck-trailer combo like diggler's, could legally haul way more than it looked. Looking at a new Dodge 1 ton and a 28 foot gooseneck for hauling a new Cat 420D (22000 lbs trailer) , currently have a 12000 lbs trailer for moving a Cat 262 skid steer. :bash

Hey Scince your from the great white north i was wondering if you may know the best way to hull a 7.5ton backhoe. . i will be moving back to London ontario to start from scrach and ill need to find a truck and a trailer.i like the red dually and the gooseneck idea. . is that leagal here??and what truck/trailer combo do you preferI know province to province we may have wieght differences. . but untill i get my truck licence ill have to settle for something with electric brakes.
thanks

Allen66

10-31-2008, 10:04 PM

The Truck weight- #8840 (both tanks full of fuel) (F-350)
Trailer- #5800
Dozer- #21800
I can haul this legally in Mississippi

the trailer is overloaded to start with which isn't legal anywhere!

greywynd

11-02-2008, 03:36 PM

Hey Scince your from the great white north i was wondering if you may know the best way to hull a 7.5ton backhoe. . i will be moving back to London ontario to start from scrach and ill need to find a truck and a trailer.i like the red dually and the gooseneck idea. . is that leagal here??and what truck/trailer combo do you preferI know province to province we may have wieght differences. . but untill i get my truck licence ill have to settle for something with electric brakes.
thanks

kostas,

Here in Ontario you can only legally tow a maximum weight of 4600 kg unless you have a class A license.

For backhoes, most seem to use either a 10 or 20 ton float, towed by a tandem (or larger) truck. If you are only going to be towing that backhoe, you could find a decent single axle and 18K lb triaxle, a setup that used to be pretty common, but not too many new ones anymore. Personally, I've never been a big fan of triaxles, too much tire scrubbing etc, hence the reason for going to dual wheels and tandem axle setups on most of the floats these days.

kostas

11-02-2008, 06:18 PM

kostas,

Here in Ontario you can only legally tow a maximum weight of 4600 kg unless you have a class A license.

For backhoes, most seem to use either a 10 or 20 ton float, towed by a tandem (or larger) truck. If you are only going to be towing that backhoe, you could find a decent single axle and 18K lb triaxle, a setup that used to be pretty common, but not too many new ones anymore. Personally, I've never been a big fan of triaxles, too much tire scrubbing etc, hence the reason for going to dual wheels and tandem axle setups on most of the floats these days.

hey thanks for the info
4600 kg..........so about 4.6 metric tons,skidsteer,mini excavators can be pulled . . ill have to sign up at the O.T.D.S to attain my class A then.
ive seen some really nice trailers in the heavy trader. . .i was checking out the features that id like my trailer to have
electric brakes
beaver tail
double axle
As for a truck. . i was thinking of purchusing a dually pick up. . diesel not a crew or club cab because i want to make use of the box.for tools or a tank so i can fill up the machine on site. . . would i have to go with a gooseneck/5th wheel set up? up or a tag along. .?keep in mind id like to stay as short as possible. . you know for those left turns in the city:)
cheers

greywynd

11-02-2008, 09:33 PM

hey thanks for the info
4600 kg..........so about 4.6 metric tons,skidsteer,mini excavators can be pulled . . ill have to sign up at the O.T.D.S to attain my class A then.
ive seen some really nice trailers in the heavy trader. . .i was checking out the features that id like my trailer to have
electric brakes
beaver tail
double axle
As for a truck. . i was thinking of purchusing a dually pick up. . diesel not a crew or club cab because i want to make use of the box.for tools or a tank so i can fill up the machine on site. . . would i have to go with a gooseneck/5th wheel set up? up or a tag along. .?keep in mind id like to stay as short as possible. . you know for those left turns in the city:)
cheers

That is what you can tow. Maximum weight with our 'G' license is 11,000 kgs total weight. (Truck, trailer and payload.) With my older one ton dually, I can just legally pull my 10,000 lb trailer with a skidsteer, but I'm getting very close to the 4600kg towed weight.

As far as driving/maneuvering, even in downtown Toronto I rarely have troubles with getting around with my stuff (likely my worst combo is our '01 Superduty and 30' RV trailer, overall length is about 50')

My suggestion for you would be to consider a single axle either van body or a dump, with air brakes, so that in time you can go to a 10 ton (or bigger) float for the backhoe or small dozers. You could still load up your stuff in the box, and if setup right you could simply get your 'Z' (air brake) endorsement, and legally drive with a 4600 kg (10, 000 lb) trailer for smaller equipment with electric brakes.

Another advantage of that right now is the purchase price of a single axle versus a one ton will likely be a lot better, anyone with decent one tons for sale still want a top dollar it seems.

kostas

11-03-2008, 03:46 PM

I see. . airbrake indorsment{Z] wouldnt be a bad thing to have . . goes well with the A.
the last truck i had in canada was a 3/4 ton gmc sierra{2500) so i imagine 1ton means dually. have you seen a 5th wheel on a 3/4 axle pick up pulling over 7tons? ??i think i only have seen them pulling camping trailers. . a lot lighter for the drive train.hey any auctions around ontario coming up?if so let me know. . . thanks youve been very helpfull
cheers

greywynd

11-03-2008, 10:24 PM

If you need to get the airbrake endorsement, many of the community colleges offer it as a weekend deal, start Friday night or Sat morning, and walk out with it Sunday afternoon. Not sure of the price, but want to guess about $3-400.

As far as auctions, Richie Brothers have a yard just northwest of Toronto, and so does another auction company...the name escapes me at the moment.(LVG maybe?) Both have auctions fairly regularly though, I'd say every couple months or so.

Nothinbetter

11-10-2008, 04:15 PM

I would like to start off with I’m one of the ones who find the CDL rules confusing. Here in NY it is not cut and dry in my mind. Every year for the past 5 years I have gotten a copy of the CDL drivers manual and every year things change. Changes I can handle if it is clear, the book isn’t clearly written and contradicts itself in several parts. Maybe it’s just me, but some parts of it seem grey. Below are a few of the items that have changed in the past 5 years. Below that is the current NYDMV web guide, the book has more detailed info.

1) Air brakes in NY is now a restriction, not and endorsement. In one of the books it states any vehicle with air brakes unless the vehicle is exempt. Under 26001 lbs is not listed under exempt situations, class d license has no restrictions, and is good up to 26000 lbs. I have a friend with a dump truck with a gross of 25900, with air brakes. I asked 3 different enforcement officers if I needed a CDL to drive it I got 3 different answers, yes, no, maybe.
2) It use to be 10000lbs for a trailer here, now its only if the GCWR is greater than 26001lbs, below is from the NYDMV. So you can now in NY legally pull a trailer with a 1 ton truck up to about 18000 lbs.
3)You also use to (I don’t know if this still applies) needed a CDL if the vehicle was used for commercial proposes in some situations. I have a friend that uses a truck to deliver campers and he had to have a CDL and keep a log book for his 1 ton pick up. None of his trailers were over 10000 lbs that he delivered. Again a grey area in NY not really explained.
4) They also had non CDL class C. This was for vehicles between 18000 and 26000 lbs. (this may be why my friend needed a CDL) This one they dropped 3-4 years ago.

NYDMV site below:
You need a CDL to drive a commercial motor vehicle (CMV), which is defined as:
A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is 26,001 pounds or more
A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more occupants, including the driver, or a vehicle defined as a bus
Any vehicle that requires hazardous materials placards
You can obtain a Class A, Class B, or Class C commercial license, depending on the type of vehicle you will be driving. If you drive a CMV without a commercial license, you could go to jail or incur a court fine of $5,000.

When am I exempt from needing a CDL?
Not all large vehicles require a commercial license. Generally, RVs driven for personal or family recreation, military vehicles driven by the military, farm vehicles driven on farms by farmers, and emergency vehicles driven by emergency personnel are exempt (see section 1 of the New York State Commercial Driver's Manual for specifics).

Freightrain

11-14-2008, 02:46 PM

When am I exempt from needing a CDL?

When the nice officer that pulled you over says so.....:Pointhead

That's the problem, too many variations, too many interruptations. It's all muddy water and the only way to be safe is to have a CDL. Granted that always isn't in the cards for everyone, but unless you think you can get away with it, it's safer to have then have not.

Nothinbetter

11-14-2008, 07:05 PM

NYDMV site below:
You need a CDL to drive a commercial motor vehicle (CMV), which is defined as:
A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is 26,001 pounds or more
A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more occupants, including the driver, or a vehicle defined as a bus
Any vehicle that requires hazardous materials placards
You can obtain a Class A, Class B, or Class C commercial license, depending on the type of vehicle you will be driving. If you drive a CMV without a commercial license, you could go to jail or incur a court fine of $5,000.

When am I exempt from needing a CDL?
Not all large vehicles require a commercial license. Generally, RVs driven for personal or family recreation, military vehicles driven by the military, farm vehicles driven on farms by farmers, and emergency vehicles driven by emergency personnel are exempt (see section 1 of the New York State Commercial Driver's Manual for specifics).[/PHP][/PHP][/QUOTE]

The question in my other post wasn't a question, it was from the NYDMV web site of when you need a CDL vs don't. Notice no air brake reference any where. Also you can be from the looks of it up to 35999 lbs without a CDL.

Bob Horrell

11-14-2008, 08:42 PM

The DOT rules for CDL take effect for vehicles weighing 26,001 lbs and above - this is gross vehicle weight (truck alone) or gross combined weight (truck plus trailer). Also, a CDL is required if your trailer is over 10,000lbs regardless of the tow vehicle weight. If your truck is 16,000 lbs and your trailer is 9,999 lbs. you are under 26,001 gross; the trailer is under 10,000 lbs. so no CDL required. If your truck is 17,000 lbs and your trailer is 9,999 lbs, you need a CDL. If your truck is 10,000 lbs and your trailer is 11,000 lbs. you need a CDL. Individual states can be more strict than DOT but they cannot be more lenient. The rules apply to the vehicle id tag weight limits, not what load you are carrying. For instance if your trailer is empty when you are stopped, but tagged for 11,000 lbs., you need a CDL. Also, no matter what the vehicle is tagged for, you cannot be over the individual axle or tire weight limits, and you must comply with the bridge law weight limits (which can vary quite a bit from state to state).
There are exceptions for farmers which allow use above the CDL limits when within a certain radius of the farm and transporting farm supplies, equipment etc. They still must comply with axle, tire, and bridge law weight limits. There are also some exceptions for RV equipment when used only for recreation purposes. For instance, an RV trailer over 10,000 lbs hauling a race car to a race where the driver can win money needs a CDL. The same vehicle hauling the car to a sportsman race where only trophies are won may not need a CDL in most states. This is where there is a lot of confusion. DOT is pretty clear on licensing when making money is concerned, but for simple RV use it can vary from state to state. Some require a special RV license for weights over certain limits, and others do not.
Hopefully this helped and didn't just add to the confusion.

texascadillac42

11-30-2008, 09:35 PM

the trailer is overloaded to start with which isn't legal anywhere!

How do you know it is overloaded? The trailer in question could have 15k Dexter axles underneath it, not the standard 10k axles that alot of gooseneck trailers have. My 32ft gooseneck has 12k Dexter axles, and a GVWR of 25,900 lbs, most tandem axle dual wheel trailers are 10k axles, but there are heavier duty options out there. I am not saying that hauling that kind of load is right or wrong, but the trailer *might* not be overloaded.....

Allen66

11-30-2008, 11:57 PM

How do you know it is overloaded? The trailer in question could have 15k Dexter axles underneath it, not the standard 10k axles that alot of gooseneck trailers have. My 32ft gooseneck has 12k Dexter axles, and a GVWR of 25,900 lbs, most tandem axle dual wheel trailers are 10k axles, but there are heavier duty options out there. I am not saying that hauling that kind of load is right or wrong, but the trailer *might* not be overloaded.....

That Big Tex trailer appears to be a GN20 which is the exact same Big Tex trailer I own, It's a 20,000 lb trailer. Even if it is a 24,000 lb trailer it's still not legal. If I recall correctly it is stated that the dozer weighs 21,800 lbs. Trailer weight ratings are gross weight. The trailer weighs more than 2200 lbs. It's overloaded any way you look at it.

Orchard Ex

12-01-2008, 03:01 PM

I think that the weight rating has more to do with tires than axles. There are lots of tag trailers advertised as 25K or 26k GVW that have (2) 10k axles.

texascadillac42

12-01-2008, 05:39 PM

That Big Tex trailer appears to be a GN20 which is the exact same Big Tex trailer I own, It's a 20,000 lb trailer. Even if it is a 24,000 lb trailer it's still not legal. If I recall correctly it is stated that the dozer weighs 21,800 lbs. Trailer weight ratings are gross weight. The trailer weighs more than 2200 lbs. It's overloaded any way you look at it.

I am not saying you are wrong, just saying that the trailer COULD be more than a 20k GVW. And we could argue back and forth all day, but unless we have a weight slip showing axle weights for each axle its tough to say if the trailer is overloaded or not. If its a 20k trailer, then yea most likely its overloaded unless there is a ton of weight on the truck axles, in which case they would probably be overloaded. But its tough to say without a pic of the door tag so we know the axle ratings, and the GVW of the truck, and the GVW of the trailer. Also knowing what tires he has will make a difference. Have you ever had a DOT officer mention anything about GCWR to you at an inspection? I never have so I am curious if I have just been lucky. Every pickup door tag I have ever seen makes no mention of GCWR due to multiple variables such as trans options, rear end gearing, spring pack choices, engine choices..... the list goes on and on. Every inspection and DOT officer I have spoken with says the numbers that matter are GVWR of the truck and trailer, axle ratings and tire ratings. GCWR is never mentioned.

Bandit44

04-09-2009, 07:41 AM

Dirt Digger I was just wondering what size tag you have on your setup.

Hendrik

04-09-2009, 09:22 PM

As others have suggested, always make sure the set up is safe. Legal aside it has to be safe.
How would you feel if you lost it coming down a hill and plowed into a school bus.
This may still happen even with a semi and low loader but at least you can tell yourself that you did everything possible to make your set up safe and not cut corners to save a buck.
If you can't afford to haul your equipment safely, get a taxi for it.
That set up with the ford and dozer looks decidedly dodgy to me, looks like a jackknife accident waiting to happen. I would be going very slowly around corners.

billymac

05-05-2009, 10:08 PM

I took interest in this posting and it has a lot of great info. I'm still trying to figure out what i can haul with my truck i have looked everywhere for the GCVW on my f650. I am aware about the CDL lic. restrictions but i want to know what can a F650 with a gvw of 26k tow behind it it the operator has a cdl lic. can i haul a 20 ton trailer with a cat 312 on it ? anyone know where to find that info ??? thanks in advance

That's a question that I've always wondered about too. Thanks for finding the answer for me. :)

Maybe, but as long as there are people who still aren't clear on them, there's no harm in repeating the information.