Biodiesel

[jhill]

I have been reading alot about this and I was wondering if any of you are running Biodiesel in your equipment. My cousin ran 100% soydiesel in his farm tractors last summer and 50-500 this winter. He is happy with. Best of all last summer when diesel was over $3.00/gal he was paying $2.45.:)

What do you guys think.

[Squizzy246B]

I have been reading alot about this and I was wondering if any of you are running Biodiesel in your equipment. My cousin ran 100% soydiesel in his farm tractors last summer and 50-500 this winter. He is happy with. Best of all last summer when diesel was over $3.00/gal he was paying $2.45.:)

What do you guys think.

I have been running 80/20 in my skid and various small Japanese trucks for about a year now with no problems whatsoever.

[Ford LT-9000]

Just make sure your engine is good enough to burn pure bio diesel then you should be ready to go. We haven't got it here yet commercially but a few people are making it. For Squizzy he wouldn't have to worry about it but for people with cold weather I heard pure bio diesel doesn't do well.

It will be like anything once they get everybody hooked onto it the price will go up it happened with diesel as more diesel pickup trucks got more popular same with propane it used to be cheap then everybody got on the bandwagon to start converting big block gas guzzlers to propane bam the price went up.

[nilzlofgren]

We run an 80/20 mix of biodiesel in all of our equipment. It really does a number on our fuel filters. the only machine that really has a problem with it, is our case cx 210. When it is cold out like it is now, it wont even start.

[jhill]

How do I pick up quotes from others replies as Squizzy did?


What do you mean by the engine being "Good Enough "?

How does the Biodiesel affect the filters? Is it dirtier?

Thanks

Jerry

[nilzlofgren]

How do I pick up quotes from others replies as Squizzy did?


What do you mean by the engine being "Good Enough "?

How does the Biodiesel affect the filters? Is it dirtier?

Thanks

Jerry

The biodiesel affects our filters by turning into gel. Even at the height of summer. you can actually spin the filters off, and pour the jelly into your hand. It cuts the service life of our filters in half. And is worse in the winter.

p.s. by clicking the quote button at the bottom of the message you want to reply to, you can ..... quote.

[Ford LT-9000]

Most engine manufactures don't recommend running pure biodiesel it goes buy a "B" rating which I don't understand as I never had much dealings with bio-diesel. We do have one guy running his old 93 Dodge Cummins off of biodiesel he is making. I'am friends with the mechanic that does the work on the guys truck. The mechanic said he damn near barfed from the smell when he changed the fuel filter it stunk so bad. He did say it was clogged right up they had to change it and flush the injection system. When the truck was running it did smell like fish and chips. The guy with the dodge has to run mix of bio and diesel fuel the injection system can't handle the pure bio.

Its allot of work making bio diesel your running around collecting up fryer oil then your making the stuff.

Something that seems cheaper to run usually never turns out that way if your replacing fuel filters and injection pumps quicker than you would be running regular diesel.

[nilzlofgren]

The "B" is for the pecentage of bio. We use B20, which is 20% bio, 80% percent diesel.

[jhill]

Nizlflogren

What is the Bio part of your fuel.

I don't think using used cooking oil is wise. I think it would have problems with contaminants.

I have soydiesel available in my area. I think new vegetable oils are the way to go.

[Ford LT-9000]

Your supposed to filter out the contaminates then you add a solution to remove the glycerin (sp) out of the oil and you use the rest of the oil.

The reason why people try make bio diesel is they get the fryer oil for nothing and I imagine many people do. I think restaurants have a heck of a time getting rid of it. When it comes to used engine oil companies pay you to take it. One of the local companies is getting 20 cents a litre for use oil.

[nilzlofgren]

We use soy

[Electra_Glide]

How do I pick up quotes from others replies as Squizzy did?
Jerry,

Use the "Quote" button in the lower right-hand corner of the specific reply you want to quote.

Joe

[Squizzy246B]

Nizlflogren

What is the Bio part of your fuel.

I don't think using used cooking oil is wise. I think it would have problems with contaminants.

I have soydiesel available in my area. I think new vegetable oils are the way to go.

Like it or not cooking oil is a huge problem to dispose, a huge source for Bio diesel and very widley used. Have a google for biodiesel, there is reams of information.

The biodiesel affects our filters by turning into gel. Even at the height of summer. you can actually spin the filters off, and pour the jelly into your hand. It cuts the service life of our filters in half. And is worse in the winter.

We have this problem with ordinary diesel sometimes. Its all in the manfacturing, bio or not. A batch "should" be made for a particular calendar month and geographical region (in other words made for a specific temperature range). Some of the worlds biggest producers have been using a "one size fits all" method for some time now and it doesn't work. Nothing like trying to start your loader at 4 am and all you have is a big brown sausage coming out of the fuel lines, and thats not with Bio Diesel.

The price of corn is going through the roof here (up 81 cents at the farm gate) as it can be used for Bio fuels. Canola is currently the No 1 "raw" source for Bio Diesel.

[Ford LT-9000]

Biodiesel is going to be the fuel of the future for heavy trucks and equipment so its probably time to get used to using it. If the health nuts don't mess with the restaurants that use oil to cook with there will be lots of old fry oil on the market :laugh

[salesrep]

"Biodiesel is going to be the fuel of the future for heavy trucks and equipment so its probably time to get used to using it"

Very much so. Many states are passing mandatory b-2 b-5 laws. Here in Illinois there is a state tax break for running b-11. overseas everything from cocnut,palm, jakarta etc etc oils are being developed. Of course soy.

[RadioFlyer]

I had a conversion system put on my dump truck about 3 years ago so I can burn either waste vegetable oil or diesel (both stored in separate tanks on the truck). It has worked well for me. I filter my own waste vegetable oil down to 5 microns absolute, and then filter it again before I put it through the truck. When I first started, I clogged alot of filters until I learned the filtration process. Now, its really kinda fun and pays pretty good too. I figure it costs me about 35-40 cents a gallon to filter and takes me about 1-1 1/2 hours to collect and filter 150 gallons of fuel. I figured in fuel filters for the truck on the 35-40 cents a gallon.

[Steve Frazier]

Are you able to run it in the winter months?

[RadioFlyer]

Yes sir, I ran it all last winter and this winter also. I had one incident of gel in when the temps dropped to -4 here because I forgot to put anti-gel in the oil. I changed the filter and put the rig in my heated shop to thaw it all out, and then ran it the rest of the winter with no problems.

[komatsukid]

will the bio diesel run in eletronic injectors as well as mechanical injectors? also how do the Cat HUEI fuel systems react to this type of fuel?

[RadioFlyer]

KomatsuKid....although I use pure vegetable oil, I am still a neophyte and can not answer that with a definative answer. I got my set up from Charlie at greasel.com which is now www.goldenfuels.com. I would have to defer. I just run veggie oil in my dump truck and not my equipment. Although the truck has been working well, I cannot tell you for sure there has not been damage internally that I can not see or the opposite. I have been hesitant about running anything other than diesel fuel in my machines........the dump truck has been my guinea pig in this little adventure. I lucked out last year and had a food company give me 1,800 gallons in 5 gallon containers of unopened new canola oil, so I have been burning that in the truck. What I do know for certain is this: There are not industry standards that are uniform and the purity of biodiesel/wvo is always suspect in my mind.......filtration, filtration, filtration....that seems to be the key no mater wheter it comes from the pump or homemade. I know that the fuel should be filtered to 10 microns absolute so it is the same purity as regular diesel. I hope this helps a little, sorry for the rambling.......

[komatsukid]

hey thanks for the reply. i find this an interesting topic. i also belive that extensive research should be conducted for the simple fact that alternate fuels can better our planet.

thanks again komatsukid.

[Wulf]

will the bio diesel run in eletronic injectors as well as mechanical injectors? also how do the Cat HUEI fuel systems react to this type of fuel?

That's an interesting question and I'd like to see in writing what Cat, Cummins and other manufacturers position is on this and what effect it will have on the newer engines components and their warranty...

I'm no expert on fuel chemistry, refining, blending etc. but it seems to me that increase in use of bio-fuel comes at a bad time when manufacturers are introducing new-technology Tier 3 engines.

Under instructions from EPA manufacturers have been mandated to reduce and control emissions for the life of the engine and enable the use of low sulfur diesel fuel. They have coming up with with different innovations, using extremely high pressures, electronic injectors with incredibly fine tolerances, exhaust gas recirculation, muliple air and fuel coolers, sensors measuring fuel viscosity and temperature and at the same time keep engine cost, durability and sub-component prices down. EPA have intentions to keep squeezing the diesel engine further and further and the use of exhaust particulate filters will probably become the norm.

There is an anomaly here because bio-diesel as I understand it is pretty cheap so the government will love it and use it both because of the price and they are seen to be 'doing the right thing'.

It worries me that people might be blending their own fuel from all kinds of sources and not controlling quality because if a 93 Dodge doesn't like it 2006 Cat Acert probably won't like it either.

[RadioFlyer]

Wulf,
Interesting thoughts. This technology is so old it is new. Rudolph Diesel's origional intent was to run an engine off of crop oils and did so. Alot of this backyard stuff I am seeing is out of a sense of pure frustration. We know oil is finite, we know there is a better way, but the movement seems to be thwarted or way too slow.....I am not to be labeled an environmentalist by any means, I am just tired of feeling like a cog in the wheel with no say......so, I chose to do this and experiment. I am also interested in solar, geothermal and wind power for homes.....shoot, anything that isn't just another conventional stick frame box where the bottom line is the only driving force. I firmly believe that if Exxon or BP owned the sun or rights to the sun's rays....there would be alot more solar stuff goin' on......Just thoughts off the top of my head after stacking hay for the horses.....

[komatsukid]

Wulf,
i would like to hear what Cat and Cummins have to say about the alternate fuel usage, and how the new eletronic engines are reacting to it. i cant help but think the major diesel engine companys are doing research and development on this subject. i cant see anything negitave comming out of exploring alternate fuels.

[bobcatuser]

I did some research on biodeisel after reading this thread and watching the movie "An inconvenient truth". From what i have read most engine manufactures will accept a 5% blend of biodiesel if it meets ASTM standards.

I found a supplier that sells b5,b20 and b40. Next time I fill my tidy tank I'm going to try the b5 and see how it works.

Here is the service letters from Bobcat and Kubota.http://www.ararental.org/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getdoc&DocId=4096&Index=e%3a%5csearchdata%5cRM&HitCount=16&hits=e+59+6d+85+aa+da+ea+108+117+128+150+15c+16c+1 7c+19b+1cf+&SearchForm=E%3a%5cwebsites%5cARAOnline%5cdtsearch% 5fform%2ehtml

[Serv]

I saw a bike owned by a BioDiesel company on Saturday. They were hauling it around showing it. The guy said it cost them $150,000.00 to have built.

The neatest thing about the bike is it was Diesel powered. The grey pipes on the passenger side were actually the ram air intake tubes and the exhaust can be seen in the last pic. The bike sounded great. :notworthy

[Serv]

more.

[jhill]

On their website Case-IH endorses the use of up to B-20 in their equipment and they say they are working to be able to endorse the use of higher levels of Bio fuels. I know there has been a considerable amount of research done by many manufacturers and Universities. and although I haven't read them all I haven't seen anything negative about engine durability.

[CEwriter]

On their website Case-IH endorses the use of up to B-20 in their equipment and they say they are working to be able to endorse the use of higher levels of Bio fuels. I know there has been a considerable amount of research done by many manufacturers and Universities. and although I haven't read them all I haven't seen anything negative about engine durability.

Same here.

Most equipment manufacturers either openly endorse B5 or tacitly allow its use. They're all striving toward proving that B20 is OK, too. Why? Because B 5 is commonly in use in Europe and other parts of the world, and B20 is rapidly becoming more common. Their engines are already burning the stuff.

NOTE: B5, B20 and such are a little different from biofuels from vegetable oils. I believe the "B" fuels are produced by fuel marketers to meet specific industry standards. Vegetable-oil conversions are a bit of home brewing -- collect up a bunch of vegetable oil, filter it really well, and it will burn in a diesel engine if it has been warmed up adequately.

Here's a link to a vendor that builds conversion kits to burn biofuels: http://www.greasecar.com/

L

[Dozer575]

http://www.wsu.edu/~gmhyde/433_web_pages/433Oil-web-pages/rapeseed2/rape-canola-oils2.html


In this article notice how, petroleum solvents are used to extract the rape oil
also notice that the latest and greatest is CO2 extraction.

I can see the day when they say. "The oil we all thought was so bad, is much safer than the veggy oils we now use as fuel"

[CEwriter]

Looks like AGC is joining EPA to promote biodiesel, I think. Haven’t actually read this AGC report: Cleaner Diesels: Low Cost Ways to Reduce Emissions From Construction Equipment [http://www.agc.org/galleries/enviro/Final_Diesel_report_03-13-07.pdf], but the table of contents indicates that a full chapter is devoted to using biodiesel.

Report just came out today . . . and I gotta get ready to go to bauma.

L

[raflomo]

How do I pick up quotes from others replies as Squizzy did?


What do you mean by the engine being "Good Enough "?

How does the Biodiesel affect the filters? Is it dirtier?

Thanks

Jerry

I have used it by mistake.I have a 100 gal transfer tank in my truck to fill various construction quip and my crane.After a tank or 2 my filter bowl ad bout 2 inches of white stuff in it.Almost looked like crisco...so much my pump quit pumping...It was kinda cold too tho'

[camara]

I have been using B20 (20% soy bean oil) for a little over a year now. I run it in my 2003 Ditch Witch Directional Drill with a 4 cylinder John Deere engine, My 1994 F800 with a mechanical 8.3l Cummins, My 1995 Dodge 3500, My own 1999 Dodge 2500. I do not use it in the PC400 or the 710B Deere as they are older machines. This summer I will change all the rubber hoses on my 1987 Autocar with a 240 Cummins so I can use it there too. B20 tends to find leaks and eat its way through older hoses. I have found it to be more of a solvent and clogs my filters with the junk that lays in the bottom of the tank rather than gell up. I have also noticed that my drill rig runs almost another 8 hours on a tank of B20 than regular fuel. My '95 3500 gets 21 mpg on it and my '99 gets almost 18mpg. The only things I do not like about it is around here there is only 1 station within 30 miles that carries it, It is five cents more per gallon, and it stinks! Presently fuel here is averaging $3.699/gallon in the Walpole MA area.:Banghead My wife & I are preparing to install solar (electric & water) a small wind turbine, a couple of Geo Thermal wells and a whole pallet fueled heater with catalytic converter and are going to eventually cut the cord with in the next 5 years. Prices go up every year, fuel, insurances, payroll, equipment and such and we are constantly asked " can you do any better on your prices?' So hopefully this will give me an edge on the competition. Besides I do work in environmentaly sensitive areas so it presents a "green" image:rolleyes:

[camara]

The other thing I forgot to mention is that B20 has better lubricating qualities than the new ULSD fuels and is better for injectors & pumps.

[EquipmentEditor]

Panama City, Fla., is converting used cooking oil into B20 biodiesel. They plan to cut diesel usage by 5% and will have the processor paid off within the year. It cost $15,000 and is set up in a little tent outside the shop facility.

I interviewed the fleet manager. http://www.constructionequipment.com/blog/1200000720.html#60046406

[Knucklehead]

I have not read this whole post, so forgive me if this is covered elsewhere. I have a buddy that just bought a Mercedes car(not sure of what model, has a 6 cyl diesel in it) that was not running. Anyhow, glow plugs are shot and froze in the head,have to pull the head to try and get them out. I helped him remove it and gut the head. Impellor on the turbo would barely turn due to the carbon build up. Also the valves had a amazing amount of carbon on them. According to my buddy, the previous owner ran bio diesel in the car. We have know idea how well made this stuff was ,or where he was getting it. I guess what I am trying to say is watch out, maybe pull your hoses off of the turbo,and at least give it a look. I know its not that easy to peek in at the valves, but this may give a guy a heads up and save him a few bucks!!!!

[burt]

1 big turn off for poeple with bio is that the first time they use it in a truck or other equip that has been running regular diesel for very long it will stop up the fuel filter fairly quickly. It is not the bio that is actually stopping up the filter but rather the black algea that coats the tank and other fuel parts. Bio will actually break this algea down and clean your fuel system out, which is what stops up the filter. Most poeple just blame the bio and refuse to keep using it.
burt