Loader or Dozer

[HeyUvaVT]

I am in the market for another piece of equipment...I am in a toss between either a D5 size dozer or a 939c Loader...I will be doing light to moderate clearing...nothing huge mostly clearing downed trees and then coming in with our skid steer with a cutter head and cleaning up underbrush and smaller trees..I will be taking out rootballs and roots when a tree too big for the cutter comes along but I wont be taking down 100ft trees or anything like that...will the dozer with a root rake on it be better than the loader with the 4n1 bucket? I have to move larger downed trees so I was leaning towards the bucket because I need to get them out without damaging trees that will be saved (we are going for more of a "park" like look with no saplings and under brush left just big trees..sorta like cleaning up the forest rather than clearing it to build on)...I am doing this work now with a John Deer 110TLB with 4n1 bucket and an ASV RC100 with a grapple bucket and Timber Ax cutter head..will I be happy with the power of the dozer with the rake or the loader? or should I hold out til I can afford the get a 312 or 315 size excavator....sorry for the long post and thanks for the help

PS I would like to expand out in the future so would I be better off with a bigger piece or equipment? Either of these pieces would be WAY better than my poor 110TLB...shes a trooper but I dont want to keep straining her like we have been!

Ryan

[Wolf]

The loader is the more versatile piece of equipment. It gets my vote.

P.S. Really liked your comment about "cleaning up" the forest. Clean up after Mother Nature. It can get pretty wild in the woods, and giving it a park-like look is awesome.

[PSDF350]

Dozer with root rake. Also suggest a wnch on dozer for dragging trees out instead of trying to carry. A loader has it's place, but it isn't in the woods.

[Ford LT-9000]

Once you end up on your side in the loader you will wish you never bought it. Wheel loaders are meant for fairly hard ground your better off with a dozer or modifiy a skidder.

[Wolf]

Dozer with root rake. Also suggest a wnch on dozer for dragging trees out instead of trying to carry. A loader has it's place, but it isn't in the woods.

But there's so much power in the loader, and it's versatile. Dozer just pushes over ALL the trees in its way--loader can clean up the woods and make a nice parklike atmosphere, no?

[PSDF350]

Loaders aren't meant to work in the woods. 1 I am not sure how there tires would hold up to sharp rocks and other objects. Tires also aren't going to give the right traction. Also too top heavy. Dozer can do a nicer job cleaner and safer.

[Orchard Ex]

IIRC a 939C is a track loader, not a wheel loader...

[Wolf]

You make some very good points about the wheel loaders. A wheel loader would probably not be the best machine in the woods.

So, how would you feel if we were talking about a track loader in the woods?

How would that do for cleaning up the woods?

[Orchard Ex]

3445
From machinery trader

[Wolf]

So how big a tree could that 939 push over in the woods?

[PSDF350]

My bad sorry dont know anything much about loaders. A tracked loader is a differant story.

[Tigerotor77W]

If you're looking at tracked loaders in the 939C size class, it may be worth your while to look at the Deere 605C as well. farm_boy may be able to provide additional information in how it compares to the 939C.

[HeyUvaVT]

wow thanks for the quick response guys...yes I am looking at a tracked loader...will take a look at the JD unit as well...anyone have some hands on info for the 939c?

[Wolf]

Any CAT track loader is a sweet machine.

Personally, I have a lot of time on the old 977L, doing demolition of old buildings in the city, but I could see it doing a great job for you in the forest too. I just love it.

The 939c is a sweet machine too, and a lot of fun to operate.

The power in those things is just incredible. Check out the picture Orchard Ex put up, and look at the hungry jaws on that CAT. Awesome!

[Ford LT-9000]

That size of machine would work well I thought you were talking about a wheel loader too. I would prolly buy a track loader over a dozer if your trying to do clean up work. That 936 is about the same size as the International that I run time to time. I run a 963 quite abit its like a bull in a china shop but man it dug and even for a well worn out machine.

I would rather have a Cat they have a better transmission and its not brake steering like a Deere.

[rino1494]

We've cleared many many acres with our 955. It is more versatile and you can load stumps and brush in trucks if you had to.

[HeyUvaVT]

I have found numerous used units in good shape for anywhere from 45-55k...anyone know off hand what a new one runs? Also other than UC and pads what are the other wear areas that I should check over? this is the first tracked unit I have looked at other than my skid which I got new..lastly whats the rebuild cycles on UC and engine/trans..most machines I have found have had between 1500-3500 hours..I would like to think I could go with something new but since I wont be beating the snot out of it maybe a decent used one would work for me....thanks again for all the info

[hvy 1ton]

From what I have heard from my uncle, track loaders aren't very popular on the coasts b/c they cost more to operate than a excavator. Excavators become very inefficient when they start tracking about, so on any long distance movement a track loader will meet or beat a comparable excavator. The best part of track loaders is their versatility, they go from digging basements to loading trucks land clearing/reclaiming and back again. Depending on how much besides land reclaiming you do, I might opt for the next size up. The 939 and 605 are sandbox toys compared to a D5N or a 953. That's not to say they don't have their place or aren't fun to drive, but if you really want to push trees you need the weight. :yup The problem with big toys is the extra weight, fuel, cost of ownership, and initial cost. No matter what you do get a winch for your crawler. Installing at least part of the forest package, window guards and critical systems protection, might keep your crawler alive and your head firmly planted on your shoulders.:bash

[Squizzy246B]

I think it would be line ball between the track loader and the Excavator when you throw in stump removal. The excavator is the king of stumps...(with a thumb too) but the trackie would be better if travelling much. The excavator might also broaden the work base of your company. Interesting subject...I must admit I thought track loader when I first read your post...but given some thought I'm not sure now.:confused:

[Ford LT-9000]

A excavator and a 4x4 dump truck would work especially if your not in to ground disturbance having a track loader with meater tracks tearing up the ground. A excavator will do the cleanest stump removal plus a excavator has better tracks that isn't going to damage the ground around trees you do want to save.

[HeyUvaVT]

It's amazing how much more useful info you can get from a group of enthusiasts and operators than you can from a dealer or sales rep!!

[Steve Frazier]

That's what this Board is all about HeyUvaVT!! Dealers and salesmen are interested in one thing, selling you a machine and preferably a machine that is on their lot regardless of whether it is the best suited machine for your job. Here you hear from end users who have been in the situation and figured out the best ways to get things done with no agenda. I'm glad you're enjoying it!!

[Ford LT-9000]

Equipment dealers are just as bad as a used car dealer they can lie to your face just to get a sale. The equipment salesmen in B.C. are always on the hunt for a new equipment sale to a customer. Some of the good customers get bribes like hockey tickets or buying them dinner etc.

This is a good place to get a bunch of different ideas do to your job and you choose which will work the best for your situation. I think you will learn different things I have.

[CM1995]

Just my 2cts worth-
I have cleared a couple of hundred acres (down to nothing but topsoil) and have used dozers, track loaders, excavators and artic's. I have to say if you are doing a large job, then an excavator and artic is the way to - especially if your disposal site is of any distance from the clearing area.

Also have used our 953C for clearing and it works pretty well - better than our D5G or D6N. The 953C allows you to root out stumps (up to a 8"-10" in dia) and rake the ground. For sensitive areas a track-hoe does a much better job.

Had a '04 315CL and put 2k + hours on it and NEVER turned a bolt. 953C had fuel filter issues when new - no problems since. D5G only issue was a fuel pump at 2200 hours.

Hope this helps in your decision.
CM

[Dozerboy]

IMO a hoe if you don't have to pile the trees very far from where your working if you have to go a little further a track loader.

[HeyUvaVT]

This has been some very good info...I am planning on getting a 315 within the next 6-12months either way so really this is looking more and more like the loader is the way to go...I am going to the stealership tomorrow to talk $$ wish me luck! :bouncegri

[HeyUvaVT]

Just wanted to take a second to thank everyone that gave me their advice and opinions on the loader vs dozer....I am now the proud owner of a 2004 939c with a 4n1 bucket..machine had 60 hours on it..delivery should be today or tomorrow! :bouncegri

Now I just gotta get my act together on a truck and tag trailer! :Banghead :Banghead

[Squizzy246B]

Lol...well good luck and congratulations on your purchase. Pics please.

[HeyUvaVT]

:bash :bash :bash machine had 560 hours on it not 60 DOH!! :spongebob

[iceberg210]

I'd go with a loader with a 4n1 bucket. You would be amazed at how much work these can do. I usually use dozers to do exactly what you are talking about, mainly forest cleaning, and the TD-6-62 loader with a 4n1 that I run I'd much rather use in the woods then the Cat D3 we have. Only when you are grading to real close grades would I rather to have the D3. Since we have an old road grader though there really isn't much use for the D3 as the TD6 and the grader can do whatever the D3 can and in the woods and moving logs around the TD6 is alot nicer. Especially when you are loading up forest debris at the end of the day because you can just grab them with the 4n1 and put them in a dump truck instead of pushing it in a pile and then loading it with another machine or just letting it go to waste in the woods.

Loader with a 4n1 would get my vote any day.

[Novaflyer]

HeyUvaVT - I'm clearing 88 acres in Louisa. I've cleared and seeded the first 35, which was in planted pines (11 yr growth that wasn't done right). I had the remaining 53 timbered and now I'm working on the first 17 of that tract. I bought a CAT 963 for the first 35. It's a 1982 with a reman engine and new undercarriage, both of which were 1 year old at the time. Last August, I bought a 320C excavator.

Depending upon your circumstances and certainly in my case, I found that I needed both pieces of equipment to do the job. The excavator for stumping and lifting material (a thumb is a must) and the loader for pushing.

My problem now is the finer cleanup stuff. I don't want to doze the land and scrub off the topsoil, yet when I scrape with the loader bucket teeth, some of the debris makes it through the teeth and is left--it's time consuming to do the finer cleanup. I'm now looking for a rake type bucket where the tines are closely spaced. That should make for a much finer cleanup job.

[Squizzy246B]

My Trash rake does so well that one guy even got one built to the same design for his 938 loader...like this"

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1577

[Dozerboy]

Nove,
If you have a hoe with a thumb get an I beam however long you can handle. It works great out here, but we have very sandy soil.

[iceberg210]

Or take a nice straight pine and grapple it in the 4n1 (if your loader is so equipped) and grade with that.

[Woodstock]

We clear alot of cedar with a 963B, some times it works good to get some brush and just push it around with the bucket when we don't have a dozer available. It seems to go a good job down here. Good luck.

[IdleUp]

Dozer with root rake. Also suggest a wnch on dozer for dragging trees out instead of trying to carry. A loader has it's place, but it isn't in the woods.


I tend to disagree You use the wench and the dozer and you give me the 939 with the jaw bucket and I'll while you're jumping on and off the machine hooking up cables, I'll have the whole field cleaned up!

[Johnny English]

If you want an old machine, go with the best track loader ever produced, the CAT 955K or 955L. Awsome power for its weight. Its the bench mark for all other tracked loaders. Get a 4 in 1 bucket if you can.

[IH560JL]

My old d4 serves me well her and not found anything i couldn't do, just not as fast as a new one.

[Abirmit]

20 years ago I was the hand shovel operator next to the CAT955L tracked loader clearing a road through heavy woods in Northern Ohio. it was the machine for the job. After he lifted the 100ft oaks out of the ground and leveled the grade he was able to load the dump trucks.

[swampdog]

Yes, 955s were awesome machines. I had a couple of 955Ks that I sold about 15 years ago. Their real forte was digging basements before excavators took over that job. They are small enough to work in tight spots, such as backfilling basements. Mine also loaded lots of gravel. I was surprised how well the UC stood up to the gravel.

With good teeth on the bucket, they also are good in the forest (but only with a good ROPS) for pushing over trees. Customers who wanted stumps removed used to ask me how much of the trees to leave. I told them to cut the trees as close to the ground as they wanted. I never found a stump that the 955 would not push out without much effort. Even a 24 or 30 inch spruce stump would come right out with a little push and a lift of the bucket.

Amazing machines - if one can find one that isn't worn out and in need of tens of thousands of dollars in rebuilding.