966f question

[komatsukid]

Hi guys, I think I have a weight problem. This past summer I started operating a 966f series2 loader. I have good experence with larger loaders like 980g and wa500s. I ran a natural bank with a soft footing this past summer and had a heck of a time adjusting to the torques in this machine. every time I went into the bank it was like I could not get enough weight on the front of the bucket to stall the drive line so the loader would not spin the wheels. Any ideas that might help my operation next spring?

[Countryboy]

Hi guys, I think I have a weight problem. This past summer I started operating a 966f series2 loader. I have good experence with larger loaders like 980g and wa500s. I ran a natural bank with a soft footing this past summer and had a heck of a time adjusting to the torques in this machine. every time I went into the bank it was like I could not get enough weight on the front of the bucket to stall the drive line so the loader would not spin the wheels. Any ideas that might help my operation next spring?

When you go into the pile keep constant pressure on the boom while working the bucket lever to fill the bucket. By the time the boom is half way up the bucket should be rolled all the way back and full. This constant pressure from the boom should over power the slippage of the tires and the extra effort from the hydraulic system to raise the boom and curl the bucket which will cut down on the torque applied to the drive line further stopping slippage. Now the softer floor conditions with a harder loading face require a little more finesse but the same principal will be applied.

[komatsukid]

thanks for the advice, it seems to almost bounce in and out of the bank, as id hoist the boom. could this be from too much throttel?

[Countryboy]

Well, I should add that at some point a floor is too soft and no matter what you do the tires will still spin. If this is the case then you need to find something to stabilize the floor and backdrag your ruts whenever you can. What kind of material are you digging in; clay, sand, fill?

[komatsukid]

i was screening a stoney natrual bank about 20ft tall with blow sand in some spots for a footing.

[komatsukid]

the strange thing is the loader will bounce in and out of the bank even when i have a firm footing.

[Countryboy]

What do you mean by bounce in and out? A forward and backward movement or up and down?

[komatsukid]

it is a foward and back movement. when i curl the bucket back about 3/4 of the way then begin to hoist the boom shaving the bank with the cutting edge it will move in and out of the bank. i can see where the cutting edge would penetrate the bank and come out. im sorry its alittle hard to exlpain., but this doesnt happen with out 980 or 988, that why i thought the machine was just too light to penetrate the bank.

[Countryboy]

Are you using the de-clutch pedal when penetrating the pile? If the pedal is "touchy" and you have your foot resting on it, that could cause what you are explaining. Also if you are to the point that you have dug ruts and still trying to dig, the loader trying to pull forward of the ruts and get more in the bucket would cause this.

All this putting aside a drivetrain problem with the loader.

[komatsukid]

let me explain to you the way i was tought to pull a bucket out of a bank, then you tell me if this sounds right.
when i begin to penetrate the bank i hoist the bucket about a foot off the ground, thus putting weight over the front axel and stalling the transmission. then i curl the bucket back about 3/4 of the way(i have pressure on the hoist to use the hydraluics to stall the machine) and hoist the the boom shaving or raking if you will the face of the bank. i normaly hoist the boom 3/4 of the way to the top of the reach on the machine then finish curling the bucket and back out of the bank.

[komatsukid]

the de-clutch function does not work in my machine.

[Countryboy]

let me explain to you the way i was tought to pull a bucket out of a bank, then you tell me if this sounds right.
when i begin to penetrate the bank i hoist the bucket about a foot off the ground, thus putting weight over the front axel and stalling the transmission. then i curl the bucket back about 3/4 of the way(i have pressure on the hoist to use the hydraluics to stall the machine) and hoist the the boom shaving or raking if you will the face of the bank. i normaly hoist the boom 3/4 of the way to the top of the reach on the machine then finish curling the bucket and back out of the bank.

Sounds pretty good. When I dig a pile, I will raise the boom about a foot after penetrating. With the boom lever held all the way back and the accelerator pedal 3/4 - Full throttle through the whole process, work the bucket back slowly. When the boom stops raising, roll the bucket back a little, the boom will now raise a little more, roll the bucket back a little bit. Continue this process and you should end up with the bucket all the way back and the boom 3/4 of the way up with the bucket full. Of course this happens faster than what it seems on "paper" but you get the point. All this is giving you equal tractive effort and digging force.

If you do this and still have trouble then the loader is probably too small.

the de-clutch function does not work in my machine.

:rolleyes: Thats always good.

[komatsukid]

hey thanks for the help CountryBoy. ill take your advice back to work with me. what kind of machine do you run?

[Countryboy]

980G and up.

[komatsukid]

the owner of the company i used to work for helped cat design the g series loaders. those are a pleasure to operate.

[Squizzy246B]

Good Advice above. I have thousands of hours on F series and find them a good honest and reliable machine. In soft stuff I will take an F over a G everyday. A couple of things I can add. We work 90% in soft sand or gravel. Radial tyres are bucketloads better in the loose or soft base. Often we run tyre pressures between 26 & 32 psi to combat the wheel spin.

It takes a lot of practice and patience to dig virgin ground with a loader in a soft base. Just follow the explanations the guys have given above and you will find that "sweet dig" spot that most loaders have somewhere. Generally its about the speed of the whole operation but steadily loading up the front wheels and controlling the power is the name of the game.

Having said that I must admit to having had the same problem you describe in a 938G not so long ago and described in these threads hereabouts. We ended up hitting the face a little faster than I'm accustomed to in the F to get the damn thing to load up......not the way I operate. To prove a point in that particular case we put our 938F onto the same site and it had none of the wheelspin problems the G had.

I think the most important fact is you can't stop and push in.... working the bucket as you do on firm ground. You must come in, lift, crowd the bucket and get off the pedal in one fluid motion before the wheelspin starts. Its the speed and timing of all those things which will make the difference. Backblade your work area and keep the machine as level as possible.

Good Luck and I hope this thread helps

[komatsukid]

hey thanks for the information, i like that loader because it is quick, and the hydraluics are quick as well. That damn wheel spin is the only issue i had. by the end of the season i wanted my 988 back! thanks again for the advice.

[komatsukid]

the tire pressure is 45psi in the front and 40psi in the rear, would you recomend letting more air out? wont that make the machine sway from side to side and become unstable when the boom is raised? when i first started running the loader in had 50psi at all four corners i let the air out alittle at a time the wheel spin got alot better so did the ride. the tires are mechillen XHA tires.

[Ford LT-9000]

You have to keep in mind a 988 won't stop till it shreds its tires.

As for lowering the air pressure in the tires I wouldn't if you blow the bead your boss isn't going to be happy. Like truck tires you need to keep the load carrying capacity up if you don't you ruin the sidewall. There still is a world shortage on loader tires so you ruin them your machine might be sitting on blocks waiting weeks for tires.

[Squizzy246B]

the tire pressure is 45psi in the front and 40psi in the rear, would you recomend letting more air out? wont that make the machine sway from side to side and become unstable when the boom is raised? when i first started running the loader in had 50psi at all four corners i let the air out alittle at a time the wheel spin got alot better so did the ride. the tires are mechillen XHA tires.

We have found with the Michelins that the sway gets bad at about 20 psi hence we keep the pressure above 26 psi. The traction improvement between 40 and 32 psi is worth it.

[komatsukid]

yeah we learned first hand about the tire shortage, our 988 blew a front tire last year and was down for three days. it was a challange feeding a cone crusher with a 966 & 980, if anything it was a good learning experence for myself and the other operator.

[Countryboy]

I think the most important fact is you can't stop and push in.... working the bucket as you do on firm ground.


Yes, thats another important action. Don't stop before entering the pile but don't ram the pile either. Just keep a steady lower speed into the pile. Another thing, you are digging in first gear right? Don't dig in a higher gear just to keep wheel torque and wheel spin down :nono . Moderation on the gas pedal and hydraulic effort needs to handle that task.:yup

[komatsukid]

no i do not dig in first gear we were tought to dig in second gear, we were tought that first gear is useless, there is too much wheel torque in first gear, in second gear the wheel torque and hydraluic pressure is equal.

[Countryboy]

Well don't get yourself in trouble doing something when you were told otherwise but if 1st gear was worthless then I doubt it would be in there. :wink2

In 1st gear it takes less effort from the motor to give the wheels more torque. This extra effort that the engine now has can be applied to raising the boom which in turn puts even more pressure on the tires causing less slippage.

Like I said you should probably do it the way they want but you shouldn't be afraid to try it several different ways and find the best. If I did everything the way I was taught with out experimenting for myself then I would probably still be digging with a shovel. :bouncegri

[komatsukid]

countryboy you have a point. in a smaller machine like a 966 i can see useing 1st gear, but in larger loaders like 980s 500s and 988s 1st gear puts so much wheel torque to the ground that in a soft under foot trying to combat wheel slipage would be a real task. this will be a tough transition to a smaller loader, anyway i thank you guys for all the advice and help. it is really appreciated.

[Countryboy]

No problem. :yup

By the way, I run a 980G a good bit and anytime I dig a pile its always in 1st with no problems. Thats the way Cat says it should be, so it is.... :wink2

[Ford LT-9000]

With the tire shortage so bad companies keep their tires in barbed wire fenced compounds with security cameras. Its China buying up the world supply of tires. The local gravel mines are having one heck of a time getting tires for the 980s and 988s. They repair what ever they can have anything thats retreadable retreaded.

I don't know what type of bucket the 966 has but most 980s and 988s used here have a spade bucket that makes a pretty big difference over a square edge bucket.

[Countryboy]

The local gravel mines are having one heck of a time getting tires for the 980s and 988s. They repair what ever they can have anything thats retreadable retreaded..

We are feeling the squeeze down here too. Luckily we sorta seen it coming and stocked up. We get offered big $$$ all the time from other companies that want to buy some of the tires we have stockpiled. They don't get them though :nono . We didn't stockpile them to make money (got offered double the price one time) we did it to stay in business.




I don't know what type of bucket the 966 has but most 980s and 988s used here have a spade bucket that makes a pretty big difference over a square edge bucket.

Whats a spade bucket look like? I ain't never seen one of them :confused: .

[komatsukid]

we have two 966f loaders at the pit i work at, both have general purpose buckets with bolt on cutting edges, they like these buckets because they dont limit the tasks you can preform, like blading down haul roads, even though we have a grader for that. i wish i could run a machine with a spade bucket, or even a bucket with teeth and segments just to see the different performance in hard banks.

[komatsukid]

when we bought our 988b it came from a quarry in penn. when we got it the tires that were on it were hard comisition tires, thoes were about worthless in a natural bank! also the top of the bucket (where the grate would be on most other 988 laoders) was plate steel! the bucket also had teeth and segmants. they bought the loader before i started working their, so i never got to run it with the teeth on it.

[digger242j]

Whats a spade bucket look like? I ain't never seen one of them

Are you serious?

A picture is worth a thousand words. (And Google is priceless!) Here:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ransome-equip.com/spadenoserockbucket.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ransome-equip.com/rockbucket.html&h=191&w=400&sz=16&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=iiP4w0AcA4kyVM:&tbnh=59&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspade%2Bnosed%2Bbucket%2Bloader%26svn um%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

[komatsukid]

yeah im serious, its the oldest loader that we have but at the same time i think its the most reliable, i forgot to add this to my last post, but when they bought it the loader had a Wheel Torque Control lever in it! they took that out and put a real torque converter in it. i have pictures on my pc but i dont know how to post them to this site, im not vary computer smart.

[digger242j]

yeah im serious,

I was quoting Countryboy who said he didn't know what a spade bucket is. Sorry for the confusion.

Here's an explanation that might help with posting pics too:http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2284

[komatsukid]

oh my fault, thanks for the help.

[Countryboy]

Are you serious?

Doh, I went to left field on that one :rolleyes: . Yes, I am very familiar with them. All of our 980s have flat blades and everything bigger than that has shanked buckets AKA "spade buckets". For some reason i was thinking of a special purpose.......Ok I won't even try.......I am signed up with the program now. :wink2

(it was 3:30 am when I said that :cool: )

[Tigerotor77W]

(it was 3:30 am when I said that :cool: )

And what conspiracy plot were you forming at that rather... hasty... hour of the morning? :bouncegri

[Countryboy]

I wasn't conspiring, I was working. I get paid to look at HEF...:wink2

[Jeff D.]

I wasn't conspiring, I was working. I get paid to look at HEF...:wink2:confused: What chew talkin' bout Willis?

Digger requires me too pay him to be allowed on HEF? And if the checks a day late I'm banned!!:beatsme

Something seems fishy here.





:wink2

[digger242j]

Not a thread hijack, but an observation...

I frequent a number of boards, and it's interesting when they seem to get the most new posts. This one always seems to come alive around this time every day, which would coincide with most of North America (which would be where the bulk of our members are located), getting home form the jobsite for the evening.

On a couple boards that are geared more towards people that spend their days in an office, they always seem much slower evenings and weekends, which is when everybody would have gone home (i.e. now they're on their own time...)


Its nice that you're on a shift where you can join us and still get paid, CB.

(And to make that into a bonafide "good thing", we are a damn good professional resource, aren't we? It's like going to some fancy schmancy professional seminar every evening of the week, but there's never a fee...) On edit: Except of course, for Jeff, but he takes it as a tax deduction...

:thumbsup

[Countryboy]

:confused: What chew talkin' bout Willis?

Digger requires me too pay him to be allowed on HEF? And if the checks a day late I'm banned!!:beatsme

Something seems fishy here.

Yup, I work at night.....SOO, technically I'm getting paid to look at HEF. :yup

On a side note: We is senior membas now...:thumbsup

[Tigerotor77W]

Hey congrats! I'm a bum and check this compulsively. Though I don't work so I don't get paid to do anything. /shrugs

Er, komatsukid, feel free to jump in anytime -- we tend to turn just about every topic into an off-topic topic. :bouncegri

[komatsukid]

im laid off for almost six months out of the year. man this year is really bad, we have no snow no ice, the weather just sucks. the small town i live in realies on winter to boost the tourisum i live on houghton lake in michigan. figures this year i go out and buy a new snowmobile and we dont have any snow yet. we got dumped on earlier this year but the 40 degree weather melted it fast.

[Lashlander]

I saw on CNN that they figure the weather pattern is going to remain for the rest of the year. I was hoping for a change cuz its abnormally cold here this year.

[komatsukid]

yeah i heard the same thing, makes a guy wonder what is happining to this world.