new 20 ton trailer [Archive] - Heavy Equipment Forums

jmac

11-10-2006, 07:42 PM

I can borrow one but I hate to do it. The guy I borrow from has been a great friend but I don't wan't to ask for too much. He has done alot for me already. He said I could so maybe just for the rest of the year, winters comming but I will still have to get a trailer in the spring if I can't find one now. If I end up buying new any good or bad points about certain makes. I have looked at Trailking, Eagerbeaver, Econoline and CAM. Used the Komatsu PC150 today and what a pleasure, love it. Heat and AC (not that I needed ac today) , cd player, big cab, and moves alot of dirt. Runs great. What a difference from my hitachi EX60. The operating controls are CAT on both so that was a great, no learning curve. The nice thing about having two capable machines is that I am working on two projects rite now and have a machine at both sites, so all I have to do is show up in my pick up truck and work.

Ford LT-9000

11-10-2006, 08:20 PM

Trailking is the most common brand tag in this are they seem to be good. I know what you mean about borrowing stuff.

Its good to hear you like the Komatsu so far :thumbsup

JBL

11-10-2006, 10:57 PM

jmac, have you checked out kaufman trailers yet? I have no experience with them but found them when I was looking around. The prices look pretty reasonable. http://www.kaufmantrailers.com/

erthmover

11-11-2006, 08:50 PM

Personally I like Eager Beavers. :thumbsup

Cat420

11-11-2006, 10:46 PM

Probably very expensive, but here's another http://www.overbilttrailers.com/ I really like the twin jacks on the front.

2004F550

11-12-2006, 09:13 AM

we've had a 20 ton beaver for 20 yrs and it still works everyday, good trailer.

jmac

11-12-2006, 05:07 PM

Thank you for the advise, Eager Beaver cost around 16k the Kaufman is around 11k, the Trail King is 17k, and the Cam is around 15k. I am just more confused :Banghead

NateV

11-12-2006, 08:37 PM

My dad has an eager beaver 20xpt. Its been a good trailer so far.

tylermckee

11-13-2006, 03:15 AM

We have an eager beaver 20xpt, been great so far. We haul our 160 around our small town with it, its not legal (couple thousand over) but it does just fine moving it around from job to job (an average move is probably only ~5 miles)

nedly05

11-13-2006, 05:39 AM

We have the Eager Beaver 20 XPT. It's a good trailer we've had minimal trouble with it. Another good trailer is Roger's. Nortrax sells them. They are right around the same price as an E/B. If you get a new 20 Ton look for something that has the lower loading angle on the beaver tail. You will like it loading that big 150 on there.

mert0714

11-13-2006, 06:12 PM

Although not a deck over, we have a Towmaster 20' drop deck with bever for a skid loader (T-16DDB, 20,000# gross) and have been very pleased. It is well built, wiring is enclosed nicely and they just upgraded their paint setup within the last 3 years. If you have to get new, they are well worth looking into. Customizing is an option too.

jmac

11-13-2006, 07:17 PM

Funny you would post that, because I spoke to my favorite Bob Cat dealer and he sells Towmaster, same price as Eager Beaver. So I have come to the conclusion that price is all about the same and the trailers are all about the same as far as national brands go. How about this question, any bad trailers that I should stay away from?

Ford LT-9000

11-14-2006, 01:39 PM

If your looking for a decent trailer try find one with 22.5 low pro rubber the trailers with the 17.5 wheels have problems with tires you also have smaller brakes. If you are going to go with a longer trailer you might even want to go to a triaxle. You would beable to carry your attachements or even carry a skid steer.

Ford LT-9000

11-14-2006, 01:52 PM

Here is a trailers to consider

www.trailmax.com/Tiltbed/td-42-t(5+24).htm

www.trailmax.com/Tiltbed/td-42-t.htm

jmac

11-15-2006, 07:35 PM

I borrowed my freinds trailer today and it was beat up real bad. 2002 Eager Beaver, brake's didn't work, running lights didn't work, and stabilizer broke. Trailer was a little scary to say the least. After I was done bringing my 150 home he asked me to move a dozer for him (trailer and truck are all hooked up) so I did it for him. It gets dark and running lights are out. Just waiting for DOT to stop me, they didn't. I was lucky. My old Mack pulled machine OK. Machine had alot of caked on mud that I just didn't have the time to get it all off before I put on the trailer and an extra bucket that came with it. The weight had to be closer to 45K lbs. Flat road 60 mph no problem but pulling hills 2nd gear. Got it done but don't want to do that every day. If I need it moved again before I get my own trailer think I will hire a lowboy.

CascadeScaper

11-15-2006, 07:56 PM

Sounds like your buddy is a goofball, how could you screw up a trailer that badly in 4 years?

As Ford LT suggested, Trailmax makes some excellent trailers. They are a little more expensive but they are very, very well built. Everyone who's anyone around here runs a Trailmax.

smalltime

11-15-2006, 09:01 PM

We have a 10 ton Hudson & it has been a very good trailer. It tracks well, the paint has held up well, & the we just replaced the deck for the first time after almost 10 years of use. I have not tried the others talked about in this thread, but I would not hesitate to buy another Hudson.

ante_up

11-16-2006, 01:29 AM

JMAC I've been looking at the econoline 12 ton trailer you have now. How do you like this trailer? How has it been holding up? According to there website for a limited time it's on sale for 5950 + tax and freight. Sometime over the winter I'll be picking up a trailer of this size just wanted to get some feedback on it. thanks

jmac

11-16-2006, 07:37 AM

For the money you can't beat it. No problems at this point. Mine is very new so can't give you long term. Why don't you buy mine, make me an offer.

jmac

11-16-2006, 01:00 PM

Sounds like your buddy is a goofball, how could you screw up a trailer that badly in 4 years?

It is the same old story, he has a bunch of guys working for him that don't have any money invested and treat his stuff badly. He never uses it, always an employee, they do use it everyday but it is hard to find people that give a damn about his stuff. I ran into the same problem, the difference between him and I is that I am at all of my job sites and do all the driving of everything and if for some reason I have a helper run, say the skid steer, I am watching him. My friend's company is just too big and he can't be there to watch how his guys run and teat his stuff. I worked with one of his guys one day, he was operating (If you want to call it that) his back hoe and was beating the crap out of it. He was beating it so bad that the linkage broke in one of the joysticks in about an hour and we had to fix it on site. Cost him about 3 hours of working time. I asked him whey he was so rough on the equipment and he said "well it is a POS anyways". I hope I never get to the point were I have to trust some else to run the stuff and not be there to watch. I had a guy last year work for me for one day because he was driving my GMC 6500 dump truck (sold it) and was running the box up so fast when he was dumping that I thought the box was going come off the truck. I let him go. He new better, just didn't care, not his money.

20dub

11-23-2006, 12:17 AM

For the money you can't beat it. No problems at this point. Mine is very new so can't give you long term. Why don't you buy mine, make me an offer.

very interested....good deal too...looking to get back into excavation and that would be a good start....decisions....:Banghead

Nac

12-01-2006, 03:52 PM

Anybody ever heard of Felling Trailers (http://www.felling.com/)? I spoke to one of there sales rep and they will make me a custom trailer based on there FT-50-3 (25 Ton Triaxle) to be built like the European trailers I post on another tread, So it will have another 25,000lb axle on the front and the trailer will be mounted to it wit a turntable. Still working out the details.

cat320

12-01-2006, 04:50 PM

Yes I have heard about them , they are in fact the way I understand it are a spin off of the towmaster trailer co. I guess a former owner or something that went his way and towmaster theres still a very good quality trailer.

Ford LT-9000

12-01-2006, 09:00 PM

If your going with a new wagon NAC look into making a attachement for the trailer so you can side a rolloff can on it so it doubles as a equipment mover and a rolloff can trailer.

Countryboy

12-01-2006, 09:25 PM

Interesting concept Ford. I like that idea.:yup

Ford LT-9000

12-01-2006, 10:56 PM

Most companies in the rolloff container truck business have a trailer that they can carry a extra can if they are hauling long distances or if they need two cans on a site the truck can do it in one trip.

CascadeScaper

12-02-2006, 02:55 AM

Yeah, a guy here has roll-offs with a dolly trailer setup. Works well, he GVW's out at 85,000 with both, but light scrap runs to Seattle (165 miles) are way easy with the setup.

kamerad47

12-02-2006, 08:11 PM

Nac it is almost impossible to back that kind of trailer up!!!

2004F550

12-02-2006, 09:22 PM

Not that much different then a pup trailer for a roll off truck, just have an air actuated pin installed to keep the piviot pt straight for backing

Jeff D.

12-02-2006, 09:45 PM

Anybody ever heard of Felling Trailers (http://www.felling.com/)? Nac, they are very popular in my area. I notice alot of the local construction guys are using them, since their factory is in Mn.

My understanding is they are a high quality trailer, well built, but their prices reflect that fact.

I can't say anything about that arrangement you're alooking at though.

Good Luck!!

Nac

12-03-2006, 09:00 AM

Squizzy246B

12-03-2006, 09:06 AM

A nother question about trailers. When loading an excavstor say a 160 size machine i have seen it with the boom facing the truck and also facing the rear. Most trailer manufactors dont tell you how to load the trailer but I have seen one that say to load facing the truck. When the machine is in the transport position boom folding in and down where is the most wieght? rear? center? front?

Nac, we go up the ramps boom forward and rotate over the deck and put the stick facing rearwards for transport. This is usually to get the weight (tracks) where you want it and have room to get the stick folded down. On most trucks it is the only way you have the space.

Nac

12-03-2006, 10:06 AM

Here is what I found on Towmaster web site.

jmac

12-03-2006, 11:21 AM

When I load my PC150 I go on the trailer with boom forward and when I get the machine close to dump truck I swing around and boom is facing backwards. This way I can get the boom tucked under and make sure my height is as low as possible. The weight should be forward, the truck should be carrying about 20%, I think on the tong. My truck is tandem axle.

Nac

12-03-2006, 11:39 AM

the tongue weight is usally 10-15% if you have the boom facing to the rear you have to pull th emachine almost all the way foward to keep the boom from sticking out and that I think would cause to much weight foward of the axles. I am not saying you are right or wrong I just dont know. I am asking because I need some info for odering a trailer to figure what size deck I need. For my machine it is 29' from rear of counterweight to the tip of the boom when folded in transport position. The trailer I am looking at has a 6' beaver 20' deck and 5' upper deck, I think I need a 22' main deck.

jmac

12-03-2006, 11:53 AM

Nac, I have never seen a excavator on a trailer forward. How would you get the boom down low enough with out to much weight lifting (counter weight) on the hitch of the truck instead of putting down force on the hitch. Most of the weight would be all on the axles of trailer or behind the axles instead of infront of axles so truck and trailer share weight together. I could be wrong, done that before, but just never seen it here. I am buying a 20 ton, 20' tag trailer with 5' beaver 102" wide. This is what I seen used by everyone here.

Nac

12-03-2006, 12:57 PM

I agree with you that that is what I always see too. I have seen tagalongs load with the boom faing to the rear. Height wise if you fold you bucket in and fold you boom down the cab and the boom are the same height on my mschine.

Tacodriver

12-03-2006, 01:03 PM

I have found out the hard way that the tag along trailers are very unstable if you load the machine to far forward. It makes the trailer very tippy, the load is more stable directly over the axles. the further forward the more weight on the pintle hitch the less resistance to rolling. I was hauling a large manlift on our tag along, had it up to the front of the deck to minimize the over hang of the basket off the back. Going around a slightly off camber corner I looked in my mirror and seen the trailer completly unweight the inside springs and try to roll. Not very fun.

jmac

12-03-2006, 01:23 PM

woberlin

12-03-2006, 01:41 PM

I, too , have rarely seen a tag trailer loaded with the boom facing forward. But it is awfully hard to argue against the manufacturers insructions. I will say though when I haul my 18,000# excavator on my 10 ton trailer, I have always hauled it with the boom to the rear and have definately noticed that the trailer seemed a little tippy on sharp turns and banked curves. Next time I move it, I will try it the other way.

Nac

12-03-2006, 02:12 PM

The problem I see with puting to much weight on the tounge is the the pintel is mounted behind the axles of the truck magnifying the effects of the trailer. It would make sence to keep the load over the axles of the trailer so they take up the majority of the weight.

Ford LT-9000

12-03-2006, 02:56 PM

Myself 200 size machine is maxing out a triaxle tag trailer and a tandem a 160 size machine is maxing out a tandem axle trailer.

The probem with a tag trailer is you load too much weight forward it makes the truck see saw on the rear suspension if you have a walking beam suspension or camel back etc. You could technically make the steers on the truck really light we have seen it happen with guys packing a 200 sized excavator on a tandem axle tilt trailer the front of the truck is bobbing around because its doing a dance on the rear tandems of the truck.

Most guys make the tounge a little heavier on tag trailers because they are not banging around. We always load a excavator with the boom facing the rear it doesn't matter how much overhang the boom hangs off the back of the trailer.

Around here we rarely use beaver tail tag trailers because the azz end of the trailer can ground out pulling up the side roads that have a incline. Also the highways dept gets awfully mad when your ramps from the trailer dig into the pavement. Also a tilt trailer is faster to load you undo the latch on the front take the bucket of the machine push the tail of the trailer down walk up and the machine is loaded no heavy ramps to deal with no adjusting ramps. Chain the machine down latch the front of the trailer down and off you go.

The only way NAC is going to make that trailer idea he wants to use work is make the converter dolly fixed so when your backing up with the trailer the trailer will act like a fifth wheel. I sure hate to see NAC trying to back that trailer up on the crowed narrow streets of New Jersey.

Myself I wouldn't be worried about the weight on the truck buy a triaxle tag trailer. The problem you will have NAC with a wagon trailer is you are going to have to have a loaded truck anytime you have a loaded trailer. The drive wheels will be way too light and they will spin. You will need atleast 5 ton over the drive wheels to keep them planted on the ground if not you will be pulling away from a light on a hill with a loaded trailer you will sit there spinning wheels or the truck will be bouncing up and down. That is very hard on axles and U joints.

I have seen a regular gravel truck with a 160 sized excavator on a tandem axle tag make the truck break traction and spin out on wet pavement climbing a hill.

CascadeScaper

12-03-2006, 03:55 PM

I've never seen an excavator loaded with boom to front. The manufacturer is stupid, you can hang the boom out the back if you need to, just don't pull the back of the machine all the way up to the headboard on the trailer. We put 15-20% when hauling (when we had our 312), you need the tongue weight getting around out here.

90plow

12-03-2006, 07:04 PM

If Nac is pulling with a single axle wouldn't he be pushing weight limits as it is with that size machine? If you add the dolley wouldn't that risk running it overweight?
-Eric

Ford LT-9000

12-03-2006, 07:25 PM

I think he wants to pull the trailer with the new Volvo he has, trying to pull a tag with a single axle truck is overloaded.

Tacodriver

12-04-2006, 10:38 PM

I would think that the farther back the weight the tipper ( is this a word?) the trailer would be. More weight to transfer from side to side over the springs. The weight on the hitch is fixed and you would have to compress the springs on the truck more for tipping action. My truck is good for 40k to 50k pounds payload so springs are stronger on my truck than trailer. But all that being said I still think that the truck and trailer should share weight to some extent. I could be wrong, never had anyone tell me to do it this way, only just seen it done that way. Someone on this site should know the best way for truck and trailer to move 30k to 40k excavators on a tag.

Picture a triangle (<::)from your trailer wheels to your pintle hitch. Say you load your excavator near the front of the trailer you will be loading it on the smaller part of the triangle and since your pintle hitch dosen't resist twisting much (unlike a 5th wheel on a tractor) equals tippy trailer. It dosent really matter which way its loaded as long as the weight is properly distributed.:)

Mike J

12-05-2006, 01:49 AM

If you look at the way the excavator is loaded in the pic the machine is almost in the middle of the trailer with the boom facing out the back. That puts a lot of weight on the tongue. The main thing is to keep the weight distribution right no matter which way you load the machine. If the trailer is longer it makes it easier to put the weight in the right spot. With the boom folded up I think the center of mass is a little bit behind the center of the tracks. If you layed a piece of wood down or something and walked up on it and then see when the machine flops forward you could tell exactly where the center of mass is. Load the machine with that point about 15% of the way forward from the center of the tandems to the pintle hitch.

KSSS

12-16-2006, 03:02 PM

I recently bought a lightly used 50K Overbilt tag trailer to pull a 160 behind a tandem axle dump truck. I am concerned about load height. I wish I had waited before buying the trailer. I am now looking for a lowboy, load off the back preferably. I have no need for a detach, nor do I want to spend the time hooking and unhooking. The Overbilt is a very stout trailer. The trailer thing can get confusing. I find it difficult to spend the kind of money they want on a trailer. I recently bought a Towmaster 18K capacity pull behind. Great trailer but it was about 9K and I picked it up from the factory. As a side note Towmaster and Felling are a short distance apart physically. Felling could certainly have branched from Towmaster.

Ford LT-9000

12-16-2006, 08:21 PM

What kind of tag did you buy KSSS is it a beaver tail or a tilt trailer ?

You think walking up a beaver tail on a tag trailer is bad try walking a excavator over the dove tail of a lowbed its a exciting experience especially if you have a machine that doesn't crawl properly. I have help load machines onto lowbeds where you can't see your depending on a spotter to tell you where to go. It can be unerving to say the least.

Got any pics of the trailer ?

Oh ya consider the cost to keep insurance on a lowbed and a truck tractor its cheaper in the long run to have a tag and tandem axle dump. Unless you plan on getting a 200 size machine try stick with a tag. Pretty well all the contractors here have gotten rid of lowbeds and use nothing but a tag cheaper and far easier.

CascadeScaper

12-17-2006, 04:29 AM

I had a buddy haul our 312 a couple times for us. He runs a beaver tail tag and let me tell you, scary stuff if you're not paying attention. I'd much rather load onto a tilt deck, just line up the machine, and run right up it, swing around and you're done. I don't see any advantage to beavertails whatsoever, only one I can think of is if you're doing a lot of work in the winter and ice/mud getting on the deck and tires/grousers would prevent you from getting up the tiltbed whereas a beavertail with steel ramps would grip pretty well. I wouldn't run a beavertail around these parts if I had the choice, they get hung up everywhere. We have a gooseneck that drags the arse all the time, I hate it.

minimax

12-17-2006, 02:53 PM

The advantage to beavertail is the axles are farther back on the trailer so you can get the axle weight right and you can load more than one machine on the trailer at the same time(like a skid and a mini or a dozer and a skid,etc,).

minimax

tylermckee

12-17-2006, 03:01 PM

We move our 160 with a beavertail tag. As long as you keep it pretty level when loading and unloading i dont see why you guys think its scary? :confused: just run up the beavertail, and slow down a little as the machine flops down on the deck swing around and your done.

Ford LT-9000

12-17-2006, 03:27 PM

Beaver tail tags are not bad its walking over a dove tail on a lowbed when your teetering on the trailer tires.

The only benefit with a beaver tail tag is you can carry more stuff like attachements etc. The tilt trailer is the number one equipment mover for excavation contractors around here because they are quick and easy to load up.

Unless your doing lots of lowbedding it might be worth while owning a 40 ton lowbed but otherwise thats a extra 3 grand a year for insurance then you have up keep.

jmac

12-17-2006, 03:29 PM

We move our 160 with a beavertail tag. As long as you keep it pretty level when loading and unloading i dont see why you guys think its scary? just run up the beavertail, and slow down a little as the machine flops down on the deck swing around and your done.

That's all I have ever used is a beaver tag and yes you do have to slow down to the slowest speed and just use gravity to get over the beaver with a heavy machine like 160 but no big deal. The rusty chains and binders is more of PITA if you ask me.
kSSS is you sell you tag PM me.

KSSS

12-17-2006, 04:15 PM

Here is the Tag if the link works http://www.ironplanet.com/jsp/s/item/141513?do=1&h=4%2F9

I don't mind going over the tires on a lowboy. Loading up a dovetail I don't find a problem. The low ground clearance on a lowboy can be a problem but so can having a 160 setting above the tires on a tag. The Overbilt is a very nicely built trailer. The suspension is awesome.

Ford LT-9000

12-17-2006, 05:05 PM

Most of our tilt trailers here all run 22.5 lowprofile tires the deck height is usually about at my waist height about 36"s or so never measured its never been a problem for us. Clearance anywhere is 13'6" to 15' feet but if you have low bridges to deal with etc.

The other problem with a lowbed is you get in a rural area you can't turn around so that means walking on a paved road and for us that means fines if we ever get caught. So you have a choice back up for miles or back in for miles with a lowbed. You get in a tight spot with a tilt trailer walk the machine off un hitch the trailer swing it around with the excavator turn the truck around hitch back up drive away.

You want to know what is a little touchy is putting a 690LC Deere on a tandem axle tilt trailer its not legal but we do it. Pretty well most of the contractors have been in business for 30 years so doing things your not supposed to do is normal :bouncegri

The loggers will put 50 tons or more on a tridem lowbed truck is grossing a good 160,000lbs.