D3B starting problems

[grumpy]

Hello Guy's, I'm new here looking for some anwsers.
I got a CAT D3B Serial# 45V57867 Pin#27Y04456
Can anyone tell me the Year, I know they were first in production in the late 70"s.:confused:
The dozer will start with a charger on it, checking with a meter i got about 13 volts. The battery is new, the starter is rebuilt, the alt is rebuilt.
Without the charger this thing will barley turn over. If you try to start it one time without the charger it will suck the battery below 12 volts.:spaz
The alternator is putting out up to about 14.7 volts when reved up a little.
When i can get it started it runs sweet.

I got alot more but we will see how this goes.

Thanks in Advance:)

[Jeff D.]

Hi Grumpy, welcome to the forum!

Could it be a ground issue? I had similiar symptoms with my dump truck this year. I also had new batteries, alternator, battery connections.

The problem was a ground somewhere. I ran new ground straps from the battery to frame, starter to frame, etc. No more problem.

Or the postive cable between the battery and starter could do it too. They sometimes will look good, but will be corroded underneith the covering.

Good luck finding your problem.

[grumpy]

Thanks Jeff, I checked the ground from the battery, it is only 1' long and it is good.
The altenator is a single wire, grounded thru the bracket. The starter is grounded to the frame i would suspect.

Some one did tell me that there were some year models that needed a ground from the motor to the frame. Thats the reason i gave the serial # to see if i could get any help there. My local Dealer's records dont have it.

[Squizzy246B]

Some one did tell me that there were some year models that needed a ground from the motor to the frame. Thats the reason i gave the serial # to see if i could get any help there. My local Dealer's records dont have it.

Its always good to test/try with a set of jumper leads as earth straps between the chassis and the engine.

However, you said the starter has been rebuilt?..if its not an earth problem have the battery load tested to ensure its not a dud then its likely the starter..make sure somebody hasn't put a 24 volt guts in the starter and the otherewise its up to spec.

[grumpy]

Going to try the jumper cables next chance i get. The started rebuild is definatly 12v, I was there.
Battery is "Brand New" and has been load tested to make sure there was no short.
Thanks for responding:guns

[grumpy]

Thanks to all who responded well it seems the starting problem was a shorted fuse, and not enough ground. Jumper cable didn't work but i make a ground out of welding lead and went from the motor to frame since they are isolated by the motor mounts. Shorted across the starter and it fired right up.

[grumpy]

The swivel joingt on my blade has a lot of slop in it. One guy from a dealer told me that all I needed to replace was the ball and not the socket it fits in.

He said all the wear is usually on the ball.

An one got any advice on repairing this:notworthy

1986 D3B

Thanks in advance

[NWH]

I just replaced the ball and socket on a John Deere 450H.
It has a very similar set up as the CAT. I believe the ball will be
mounted on the blade instead of on the C-frame as on my tractor
Other than that they about the same. You will find that most of the wear
is on the ball but you should still check the socket wear with a new ball.
Do not let just anyone do this work as you can easily take the temper out
of the new ball when welding it in.

[grumpy]

Thanks for the input, you are right my ball is attached to the blade.

I will check the fit when i get the new ball delivered, hoping not to replace the socket.

There is a lot more welding there than there is on the ball, I will be doing the welding myself I figure with 30 years of welding in powerhouses and chemical plants I should do ok on this.:thumbsup

[grumpy]

Hello ;

I am trying to figure out where to land the wire coming out of the amp meter.
It comes from the altenator ties into the hot wire in the harness then comes into one side of the amp meter, but i can figure out where the other end goes.

some post on the internet say it goes to ground, others say to the headlight switch.

The gage itself isn't grounded because the dash is plastic.

Any help is appriciated.

[Jeff D.]

Grumpy, you may already know this but just in case, an amp meter is a gauge to show which way current is flowing. It'll show whether current is flowing into the battery(charging) out out of the battery(discharge).

Neither terminal on an amp gauge should ever go to ground. That will give a complete short, and dead battery.

I drew two diagrams to show how an amp gauge fits into an electrical system. Both are the same except one has two wires from the positive terminal on the battery, the other only one(the second wire connects at the starters main terminal)

The diagrams don't show many of the other wires, such as the starter solenoid wire from the key, etc. It's simplified down to the basic charging system.

Personally I prefer volt gauges over amp meters. All current to/from the battery must flow through an amp gauge, and that can be a problematic area sometimes. A volt guage will need only to be hooked to a keyed power source and a ground. Very little current flows through it, and it still a good monitor of the charging system. An idea in case you decide to replace it.

Good Luck!!:thumbsup

[Jeff D.]

Personally I prefer volt gauges over amp meters. All current to/from the battery must flow through an amp gauge, and that can be a problematic area sometimes. Uh, I should've said all current except the current that flows through the "main" battery cable during actual starting. That wouldn't flow through the amp meter. Sorry.

[digger242j]

The illustration above solved a big problem for me.

I had no idea what to get Jeff for Christmas.

Now I know.

(Note to self: Big 64 color box of Crayola crayons for Jeff...)


:bouncegri

[Jeff D.]

The illustration above solved a big problem for me.:cool: What?! I thought a picture would be easier too understand.

Oh, I had a good comeback for you too Mr. Digger, but I thought Grumpy might not appreciate sending his post into a downward spiral..................yet!!



............Ok, now!!I had no idea what to get Jeff for Christmas.I'm still asking Santa again this year for a "dingy blonde", but he never comes through so...........you could get me that!

By Grumpy's description to me the only thing missing is a connection too the battery, probobly via the starter/main battery cable terminal. It would be shorter than running a wire all the way to the battery and accomplish the same goal. My two cents.:beatsme

[digger242j]

I'm still asking Santa again this year for a "dingy blonde", but he never comes through so...........you could get me that!

I hear Grumpy has some sort of "living arrangement" with a hot babe.

And six other dwarves...

:bouncegri

[grumpy]

For those of you who helped with the starting problem just wanted to let you
know I recently purchased a perts book for the D3B and it shows the
extra ground to frame right there in the book. Still looking for operations and repair manuals.

The actual repair manual # is SENR 7911 in upper right hand corner.

Thanks Again!!!!!!!

[Jeff D.]

Grumpy,

Ron G. gave me a lead on a guy who had a used original factory manual for my JD dozer. It turned out he had the original manuals for almost all my equipment. Prices were $20-$60/book, and none were copies.

I can pm you his email if you wanted to check with him.

[grumpy]

Please send it to me and I will contact him to find out
XXXXXXXXXXXX

[digger242j]

Grumpy, I took your email out of the post. You wouldn't believe how many spammers we get registering here, and there's no reason to think that email harvesters don't visit here just as often.

If you want, I can put it back, but I'd advise against it. If you have that feature enabled, members can contact you via email by going to your profile.

:)

[grumpy]

Thanks Digger!!!!!!

I wasn't thinking about that i guess.
I checked my profile and it looked like my e-mail was there
so some one can check there to e-mail me right?

[digger242j]

The information is available to members who are logged in, but guests can't even see that it's available.