Torn bettween a old A model Kenworth or Ford 9000

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am looking for a 80-82 W-900A model Kenworth dump truck there used to be lots of them around but they seem to be all gone or not many forsale.

I plan on putting a truck on the road this year sure the old A models are old but they are a tough old truck. They don't turn well either when you run 465/65R22.5 floats on the front.

A truck with 400 Cummins power 13spd 18,000lb front and SHHD (44,000lbs) rears on spring suspension would suit my needs.

I thought about going with a 9000 Ford I have worked on them and drove them good trucks but they are not as heavy as a old K-Wobbler. The Fords are a little harder to work on as half the engine is in the cab and the Ford parts themselves are a little hard to get. Also the old Fords are prone to RUST alot of them here have the orange cancer in the cab.

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am going to buy a tandem axle dump I'am going to try get my foot in the excavation market.

Anyhow I'am looking for a dump I like old Kenworths I found a 78 W-900A model its 3406a Cat power spring suspension 15spd 18-44 axles 16'6" box. I know they are a tough old truck. The biggest problem with the old Kenworths is they don't turn sharp when you have supersingle steers. The old Kenworths usually have a wheelbase of 230-234 inches and with the long hood on them.

My gut instinct keeps telling my I should stick with a 9000 Ford or maybe go with a Western Star. The Fords with a 222wb go anywhere but the big drawback of them is working on the engine. Also the Fords are not built as heavy as a old Kenworth.

I have driven 9000 Fords allot and I know what kind of turning radius they have and where they can go. I never driven a old A model Kenworth but I have been told they don't steer very sharp. One of the other contractors has a A model the truck doesn't turn sharp at all I watch him trying to back into a spot and it took allot of corrections to make it go.

I don't know maybe I should stick with my gut instinct and stick with a truck that I know will work for the tight conditons we have to get the trucks into. The other contractors are running Western Stars they seem to work I don't like the older western stars the cabs are too cramped.


What do you think ?

[jmac]

I think that for a guy that knows the business as well as you do should give it a try for yourself. Good luck! I often wonder why people that have been doing this line of work their whole life don't venture out on their own. I realize it takes allot of money, believe me I know, but you only live once, life is short. If a guy like me that knew nothing a very short time ago can do it and make a living at it, you can. As far as trucks go I have a Mack as you already know. So no help on that one, but will be glad to add encouragement for starting your own business, IT IS THE AMERICAN WHY, oh forgot your Canadian, should be "ok" anyways.

don't know maybe I should stick with my gut instinct and stick with a truck that I know will work for the tight conditons we have to get the trucks into. The other contractors are running Western Stars they seem to work I don't like the older western stars the cabs are too cramped.


I do like going with my gut, it works most of the time.

[tylermckee]

Go drive an old kenworth and see what its like for yourself.:thumbsup

[Bob Horrell]

You are right, those old Kenworths take a Walmart parking lot to turn around. In my search for a tandem dump, turning radius is important because I often get into areas where I have no room to turn around. Just the other day, I had to disconnect my equipment trailer and turn it around with the tractor and then hook back up - and I barely had enough room with my single axle dump. I would still be at that job trying to figure out how to get out if I had an old Kenworth. Like you, I do like those trucks tho.
The other thing with the older ones is that they don't have air to air coolers and usually their mileage sucks compared to ones manufactured after about 1990. With the price of diesel these days, it can make a difference.
Good luck in your search. I have been looking for almost 5 months now. It took me 7 months to find the single axle I have now and it was worth the hunt. It has been a great truck. I want to find a tandem just as good.

[Jeff D.]

LT, while my truck was in the shop recently I had the chance to look over a L or LN 9000 (had set back steer) Ford dumptruck parked in the next bay.

Although I can't comment on driving one, I was really impressed with how beefy it seemed put together. It looked like it was made to take a pounding.

It had a 3406 in it, and the engine and fan were mounted crooked just to fit under the hood, but everything else looked straightforward.

I could easily see the difference between a road truck, and that heavier spec'd dump truck.

And it had the well laid out Ford cab similair too my old L8000 too.:thumbsup

I think I'd lean towards the Ford maybe.

[Steve Frazier]

I've never driven a Kenworth, so I can't comment on them.

I have however driven the L-9000s for over 20 years and I loved those trucks. The way the dash is set up was real comfortable to look at, and the visibility through the huge windshield is great! Turning radius is tighter than any other truck I've driven.

These trucks were pretty reliable too, though I hauled freight. The mechanics didn't care for them though because of the difficulty in making repairs. The back of the motor is under the doghouse in the cab, and the dash was tight quarters.

[Dwan Hall]

I would pick the one that does the job the best. I have driven both and find the KW would be a great over the road or long haul truck but on a construction the ford is easer to handle.

[Ford LT-9000]

I have worked on lots of old 9000 Fords yes I have created a few new ways to swear but the Internationals were worse.

I think I will stick with my gut instinct I know Fords work good in this area they do ride a little rougher than others because they are shorter distance between the back of the cab to front axle. I'am not doing long hauls we don't have long stretches of freeways. Good turning and manueverabity makes or breaks it on some jobs.

I would really like to find a 9000 with Big Cam Cummins or a 425 Cat a truck with L-10 or M-11 power isn't high on my list but if the truck is in good shape I would consider it.

The old A model KWs are a classic truck but they are a little old the cabs are pretty spartan. As I meantioned I haven't driven a old A model but worked on sites where contractors in the area that had A model trucks. You watch them try turn into a site the driver has the wheel cranked over to the left and its barely making the turn.

For the truck don't want to spend more than 25,000 I want to get the truck paid for quickly then start looking at a excavator fullsize or a mini.

[Bob Horrell]

I just saw a 76 Kenworth W900 for sale in the Truckpaper that is a real sharp looking truck. It had Cummins 400hp with 13 speed and all the goodies. The only problem was it only had 12K front and 40K rears. Price was right at $13,500. 700K miles. It is a good looking truck, but you can't let that sway you if it won't do all you need.

[CascadeScaper]

I have a buddy who has a '78 W900A but it's a short nose and it turns fairly sharp. He did make mention to me that he didn't like the long nose versions, maybe because of the turning radius. I had the opportunity to drive that truck a little on a site and I didn't think the turning radius was too bad. I also drove a L9000 water truck earlier this spring when we were doing our huge orchard burning job, those trucks do turn very sharp. It's a hard choice to make, the Kenworths are solid, but the Fords do turn sharp.

[Ford LT-9000]

I know where I can get a 78 A model its been at the dealer for awhile I think the truck is a little old for the guys in Vancouver. The truck is a good price it has Cat power which I'am a little leary about being its a 3406a. I would rather have 400 Cummins power. The truck has the heavy specs so its a good truck.

For a W-900A to run a 16'6" dump box it needs a wheelbase of 230-236 inch wheelbase where as a L9000 only needs a 222 inche wheel base. When you run 425/65R22.5 supersingles on a Kenworth for steers it really limits the turning radius the way Kenworths steering box is set up. With a Ford running the same size steer tires it doesn't affect the turning radius much as I have driven both a 9000 with regular steers which isn't legal and a Ford with SS.

I can go places with a 9000 Ford the W-900s can't go or can but have real difficulties. The good turning radius of the Ford is good in its easy to get into places but has a drawback is you are able to get into places you shouldn't go.

The benefit of the Kenworth is they ride a little smoother they are easier to work on because the whole engine is infront of the firewall unlike the Ford its half under the cab. The benefit of the old Ford is you do have good visability with the snub nose hood you can see your fenders pretty good.

If I do go with a Ford I need to find one with a 18,000lb front axle because we need a truck with a heavy front axle to be legal. Most Fords have 14,500 front axle the 12,000lb front axles are too light.

Its something I have been thinking about the old KW is a tough truck if the Kenworth is still at the dealer when my next day off which is nov 10th I'am going to look at it. I know the turning radius isn't that good and I'am going to loose the manueverability I'am used to with the Fords.

I have to weigh the pros and cons which is

Pros Ford- Good turning radius,good visablity,more comfortable cab.
Cons Ford- Harder repairs on the engine, Orange Cancer the cabs suffer from rust. Also getting factory Ford parts is getting rare like light switches etc.

Pros KW- Easier to work on all the parts in the cab are easiliy replaced. The truck is a little heavier constructed.
Cons KW- As meantioned Turning radius,cabs are pretty spartan.

I asked the dealer if he had any leads on 9000 Fords didn't have any he knew of they are a Ford Commercial truck dealer that sells Sterlings now but have been selling Ford trucks for years.

[nedly05]

Of the trucks that you have looked at which one will work the best for the application that you tend to use it for? I have a neighbor with a Kenworth W900 and he could not make a swing on to a bridge pulling his tag-a-long, and month before I had watched a tractor trailer make that swing, so I guess that the Kenworth does not have too much of a turn radius! If you are looking at a couple of trucks and 1 seems to be more what your looking for go with that one. I have been keeping my eye on a couple of L-9000 single axles that are converted road tractors with a 10 spd and 330HP M-11 cummins, If the season werent almost done I would buy one, they are nicely built,and speced. Iguess I will just have to wait till spring! Good Luck Ford, I know you'll buy the better truck :thumbsup (PS) do you work all winter up there?

[CascadeScaper]

You're right, a lot of the L9000's are spec'd with light front axles. The water truck I drove was only tagged for 55K. It didn't have a supersteer, so I imagine it was probably 14K axle. Definately couldn't handle much if it was a dump truck but as a water truck it was perfect.

[Ford LT-9000]

We work all year round we really don't have a cold winter where we snow 4 months of the year. In Decemeber and January we may have couple weeks of snow but mainly its cold with the frost but nothing that would stop work.

The decision between the two is going through my head I can live with the harder to work on truck which is the Ford. Usually you don't work on a truck every day especially the engine. Trying to deal with a truck that can't frigging turn everyday can be frustrating especially so when your used to a Ford that steers on a dime.

One of my friends worked for one of the contractors that had a old A model pretty much exact same truck I'am looking at. He said when driving the old Kenworth you had to pre plan before you made turns. Say turning off of a side road onto the highway. He said some times you had to go so far into the turn and back up to readjust to make a turn. A 9000 Ford you don't have to do that.

Most Ford 9000s in this are do come with a 16,000lb front axle you can boost that up by mounting super singles on the front. You really can't mount supersingles on a 12,000lb rated axle it doesn't work too well.

I know the Kenworth 900 at the dealer will probably be there awhile its going to take a certain person to buy it. It doesn't hurt to go look at it but I will probably pass on it. If the truck had 400 Cummins power with a 13spd I would be more interested. Truck has a 15spd I really don't want a 15spd I don't need the deep reduction also a 10spd is a pain to shift. I learned on 13spds I like driving trucks with them because they are easy to shift as its a standard H pattern.

[jmac]

Ford, after you get the truck what size and make excavator are you going to look for? You better say a 150 :yup

[Ford LT-9000]

Why would I buy a 150 sized machine its the worst size of machine made :roll

Actually a machine wouldn't be a right away buy untill I see how well the market is. If the market can support another excavator in the area then I will go for it.

I was flipping through the equipment book I buy and the dealer has the Kenworth I want to look at up for offers now. I can't get any time off of work to go look at it :Banghead

We will see if its sold by the 10th of November if not then I will go look. If it is no biggy I know where I can find a 82 900 it has Cummins power 15spd but it looks like it needs a little more work. I also have to go to Nanaimo to look at it.

I have been searching for a Ford 9000 when I wasn't looking for one there was lots forsale now that I'am looking there isn't any forsale :crying

[jmac]

I think your advise to me was "take your time looking or you could end up with POS."

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am taking my own advice I'am not rushing into things. The old Kenworth isn't completley what I want I don't really like the older Cat power and the 15spd.

[jmac]

Actually a machine wouldn't be a right away buy untill I see how well the market is. If the market can support another excavator in the area then I will go for it.

IMO and from what you guys have been saying about the Canadian building boom that you would have room. I also think that between the two; trucking and excavating that excavating will be bigger money maker for you and the trucking is just a extra when you not digging. I also realized that when I was just testing the waters I never really got any big jobs. When I made the leap 100% and went after the bigger work the work came. After I did my first larger project (that I had to rent larger equipment for) then I was able to justify the money for that same equipment I rented. Once I owned the equipment and could say "hey I did this project last summer" to a new customer the work followed. And so on and so on, I use my last biggest project as a stepping stone to the next.

[Ford LT-9000]

Our economy riding on credit everybody buying or building houses is so far in debt they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. We don't know what is going to happen if the housing market goes to what it used to be then the local excavation contractors will have just enough to survive.

All its going to take to kill the local economy is if the interest rate goes up if it does the building boom will stop quickly. So its why I'am not going to quit the job I have now I know its good. When everbody else is unemployeed I won't be.

[Cat420]

Our economy riding on credit everybody buying or building houses is so far in debt they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. We don't know what is going to happen if the housing market goes to what it used to be then the local excavation contractors will have just enough to survive.

All its going to take to kill the local economy is if the interest rate goes up if it does the building boom will stop quickly. So its why I'am not going to quit the job I have now I know its good. When everbody else is unemployeed I won't be.

That's an excellent way to plan. If you budget for the worst and nothing happens you're still in good shape. If not things can quickly go downhill.

I know our family business is looking to focus on smaller things. Smaller equipment costs less to move, use, repair, and purchase. If someone stiffs you on a driveway project it means eating pb+j for a while. If someone stiffs you or you have big problems on a large project, the sky is the limit for the potential damage.

[jmac]

know our family business is looking to focus on smaller things. Smaller equipment costs less to move, use, repair, and purchase. If someone stiffs you on a driveway project it means eating pb+j for a while. If someone stiffs you or you have big problems on a large project, the sky is the limit for the potential damage.

Looking to focus on smaller things is different than trying to start a new company part time. In a perfect world starting a new company part time and keeping your day job is the best bar far. Can you do this on weekends and keep your 9 to 5? I don't know, that would be great. For me anytime I started a new company (I have had 3) I realized that I had to be committed 100%. I tried to do every one on part time basis first but to make it work I had put full time hours in to it and allot of money. I am not saying that it can't be done because I am sure many have but for me it never works that way. I would slowing milk one company and do less and move money and my time to the next one to the point where I would end up selling off the company and going full time in the new one because that’s what it took to make it work. Excavating has been the most expensive one and time consumming so far to start up.

[Ford LT-9000]

I want to get the truck now so I can get my name out there before spring time rolls around. So when of if the work picks up this spring I'am already on the list of available trucks and I'am ready to go.

If the work in the area doesn't pick up then I may have to get rid of the truck.

[Dwan Hall]

Can you post what your logo will look like?

[Ford LT-9000]

I don't have a logo if your asking my Dwan the only thing that will be on the truck will be my personal name and the gvw on the truck. Until I make a full business out of it then I may make a legal company name. Right now as it is I'am registered as a legal trucking company under my personal name.

[Blademan]

What do I think ?

Well , since your own user name is Ford LT 9000 I say you've already made up your mind , no ?

I too have many good memories of driving a 9000 , and have seen lots of them over the years hauling gravel to us . I actually still see one drving around town here that used to belong to a old family friend that he bought new like back in 1978 or 79 or something . Tough trucks , and if well taken cared of , they can be a good money maker too .
That said , your other option is a 1978 Kenny ? Yikes , even if it was in good shape ,that would be a pretty thirsty beast wouldn't it ? Not to mention trying to find parts for something that is 28 or 29 years old . Could be a big headache , IMHO , and a big money pit too . BUT , if money was no option ( I can dream :thumbsup ) finding a old Kenny and totally restoring one would be great . I can't anything cooler then a old truck mated to a high horsepower powertrain . :notworthy

Sooo , +1 to the 9000 . Like mentioned before , take you time and look around tons before you jump in . Good luck .

[Ford LT-9000]

Yes fuel economy is and weight of the truck is on my mind aswell the old Kenworths have a pretty heavy tare weight that eats up payload. The age of the truck is a little old. Getting parts isn't really a problem most KWs used parts that are standard off the shelf stuff.

Its the bad turning radius of the old KWs has got me wondering do I want to deal with it. I'am not rushing to go buy the 78 KW I found a 89 Ford L-9000 its not a dump its a water truck. It looks like it has all the spec's I'am look at the truck has 425 Cat power rather have Cummins but Cat is good the truck has a 13spd. I emailed the dealer to ask what wheelbase the truck is its hard to tell.

I'am searching for a Ford but it seems like people are hanging on to them. Actually allot of people are keeping their old trucks because the new trucks with the emmision motors are junk they burn more fuel and cost allot to fix.

[Ford LT-9000]

Talking with a old time truck driver today and he used to wreck trucks and sell parts. Anyhow I told him about the 78 I said the truck was 3406a power said I should stay away from it. They were known to have weak bottom ends to replace the crank is very expensive the analogy he used was you have to sell your house to buy a crank shaft.

His general consenses was stick with a Kenworth he might be a little bias because over the years its all he owned and drove. He also said stick with the big cam Cummins said it was cheaper to fix.

By the way I known this truck driver for years my dad has known him when he was my age.

[Cat420]

Here's couple at the same place. Except for being triaxles and not tandems, are these the kind of thing you have in mind?

http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1276941&guid=9B2F53C826644BF5A2B0A4AAFF38814E
http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1276931&guid=9B2F53C826644BF5A2B0A4AAFF38814E

Good luck finding something. I know how hard it is to wait for something with all the specs you want, but you'll find one before too long I'm sure. It must be nice to have lots of money and spec a truck out exactly how you want from the factory. I certainly don't envy the payments on new stuff though.

[Ford LT-9000]

I can't afford to buy a new truck I don't think I would want to buy a newer truck.

The problem around here is old Fords are not that prevelant. People that have them are keeping them and the ones that are out there are old worn out trucks.

The older Kenworths are around same with Western Stars I know where I can find couple Western Stars. Everybody in the area has Western Stars the highways dept has them if I bought one I would end up joining the crowd.

I may end up buying a A model KW and suffering with the bad turning radius. I don't want to buy a 9000 Ford that is in the 70-86 range becuase the cabs usually are on the rusted side. Then you have to watch the newer Fords they did a goofy air over hydraulic disk brake set up on the 9000s thats expensive to fix.

So I will keep looking.

[Dwan Hall]

Then you have to watch the newer Fords they did a goofy air over hydraulic disk brake set up on the 9000s thats expensive to fix.

So I will keep looking.

I am replacing 1 left front brake assembly now and it is going to cost a little over $1200 for parts and they are getting harder to find. Have to have them sent out of Texas.

[PSDF350]

Guy I am working with on a 1200 acer logging job just spent 2700 on a (1) tire for his forwarder.

[Ford LT-9000]

Its one of the things with the old Fords is parts are getting hard to get. Ford used their own light switches,wiper controlls air valves etc. As I meantioned Ford used a disk brake set up and it is very expensive to repair. Allot of guys used to change the system over to drums. The contractor I worked for had a old parts truck that I used for parts for the other Fords.

To find those parts you pretty well have to go to a Sterling dealer to see if they have anything instock.

[Ford LT-9000]

I got a email back about the 89 Ford with the water tank its got the right wheelbase and thats it :Banghead

The truck is a Alberta spec the truck has 12-40 axles but it has 425 Cat power 13spd they are common in Alberta and thats what the commercial Ford dealers call them. A light spec'ed truck for higher payload good for city use but not really good for rural construction like where I'am at a light tandem takes a beating.

I thought I found a good candidate for a dump but its not, rats.

The way things are going I maybe buying a Western Star and joining the crowd maybe thats why there are so many of them around here. Thing I don't like about Western Star is the cab is a little small I always have problem with the brake and throttle being so close together.

[Ford LT-9000]

Isn't it always the way when your not looking for a truck there is lots of the ones you want and when you are looking for one you want they dissapear :crying

Oh the frustrations of truck searching there isn't anything out there. I'am thinking about looking at the A model KWs I found 3 of them. The one with Cat power I meantioned would be my last resort.

If I want to get my foot in the door I may have to buy a old KW it won't be a good tight spot truck. Finding a good used Ford is turning into the impossible. I know where I can get a 1975 it has 350 Detroit power 38 and 16 axles the truck has been at the dealer for awhile now. The other Ford is a 1980 it has 350 Cummins power but again its old. The old Fords are usually really well beat and have rust.

Not sure what to do keep waiting or what I know I can make one of the old K-Wobblers work.

[Dwan Hall]

There is a heavy duty 1983 L8000/3408 10 wheeler here with low miles. has a insulated box on the back but nothing stoping you from changing it over to a dump box. I could check the wheelbase if needed. I know it is shorter then mine. I am not sure what trans is in it but I could also check that. I was looking at it because of the low miles, good tires and insulated box. Just not sure what I would do with it. oh ya it also has a 7000 lb rail lift on the back.


It would be easy to send to Prince Rupert

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am looking at what its going to cost for a new 16'6" box the prices I have found are in the 15,000 dollar range. Dad has a hoist I would have to get a pump and hydraulic tank.

I'am not hurrying but isn't it always murphys law when you don't need it you can find it but when you need it you can't find it :Banghead

I'am trying to buy a truck in the 20-25,000 range I can find a 95 Western Star all ready to go for 42,000 the truck payment comes to 918.00 per month for 60 months. A 25,000 dollar truck the payment comes to 546 per month I can handle that. Testing the market and if it works out then may look for a newer truck.

[Dwan Hall]

I will check the wheel base sunday. I think it may be a bit short for a 16'+ box but I am not sure till I check.

[jmac]

Same problem I had Ford, in the 25k range not alot to look at. I spent 30k on a 89' after freight and repairs. Out of 4000 dump trucks on Truck Trader found 3 that fit my specs. from all over the country. If you jump to 40k to 50k alot more trucks to look at but bigger payment. I felt your pain, but in the end found a truck that works for me, not exatly what I wanted but good enough.

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am looking for a truck, the old KWs will probably still be on the dealers lots if I get in a pinch where I need a truck.

I have been looking at R model Macks but usually the old Macks are pretty rusty. They are tough old trucks a little on the under powered side for the hills we have here the 300hp isn't quite enough.

[jmac]

I agree with the power issue, we have lots of hills here also, and boy I could use more, but you always can use more. It is back to the budget thing again. What’s the most truck you can get for 25k? I guess if I was trucking every day than I would want bigger HP's, but than again I want more HP's now but didn't have the money to spend on it. So reliable won out over power.

[Ford LT-9000]

I will keep searching I can find a truck with a 400 Big Cam Cummins or 425 Cat they are around just have to be on the ball and ready to buy. Pretty well 90% of the older trucks in the area have 14 litre power and 400hp. Good trucks are usually only on the market for a week and they are gone some are on the market for a couple days and they are gone.

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am still searching :yup

I found a 86 Ford L-9000 400 Cummins Power 13spd the truck has had its rear axles changed to 46s. I'am going to get more info on monday if its not sold already. It is a little older than I want but it does have a 400 Cummins it has heavy axles it has 13spd and its on spring suspension.

I talked with one of the regular truck drivers that passes through my community. He has a good sense of humor I like the guy anyhow we were talking trucks. He was telling me he had a old Kenworth W-900A model and to sum it up he said don't do it to yourself. What he told me about the steering and the way the trucks wander and the poor turning radius said don't do it. His truck was a chicken truck (highway tractor). I did LMAO when he was describing what the old spring ride seats Kenworths come with he called them nut crushers.

He did say go with a 9000 Ford he did say Fords had the dog house and the dash board at your knees but otherwise the trucks were good.

I was telling him about the complaints I have about Western Star cabs he had the same compliants that the foot pedals are too close together so when you step on the brake your stepping on the throttle too. So I'am not the only one with that problem it can be dangerous especially backing up and you not looking at where your feet are.

I hope this 86 is what I want I finally have some time off I can go look. What has me a little worried is the truck has been put together its like somebody custom built their own truck with different parts.

[nedly05]

I would make sure that cummins has a JAKE. You will know when you look at it if it is something you want or not.

[tylermckee]

I sat in a ford for the first time yesterday, man, im 6'1" and i could NEVER run that thing 8+ hours a day all the time.

[sbrem]

I was telling him about the complaints I have about Western Star cabs he had the same compliants that the foot pedals are too close together so when you step on the brake your stepping on the throttle too. So I'am not the only one with that problem it can be dangerous especially backing up and you not looking at where your feet are.



Some of the Fords have that problem too. I sometimes drive an '89 L9000 and end up hitting the brake with the throttle. Damn big feet!

[Ford LT-9000]

I do have agree the leg room in the Louis isn't that great if your tall because the room between the seat and the dash board is a little tight. I'am only 5'9" I do have to have the seat back as far as it will go and its hitting the back of the cab. I never really spent a 8 hour day driving truck because any of the places I worked I was banished to the shop pulling wrenches my mechanical skills were more important than my driving.

The one guy I was training to drive truck used to have on complaint about the Fords was the throttle pedal and his foot would get sore. Myself I'am so used to driving with my foot tilted to the side and just pressing the pedal with your toe of the boot it never bothered me. I do wear size 11 boots so I pretty much buy shoe boxes. With the Fords your toe rubs the dog house in the cab the brake pedal is stepped down so its lower than the throttle pedal. With the Western Star the brake pedal and throttle are almost on the same level. I imagine a person can take a torch and heat the gooseneck pedal and bend it over to the left to make more room.

As for the 86 I'am pretty sure it has a JAKE its very rare that a truck here doesn't have one and a JAKE on any Cummins L-10 to N-14 they are almost OEM.

A 86 Ford is pretty old the 9000s I worked on were 84 to 86 you can tell that the cabs were never designed to last a life time ,rust is a big problem.

Its going to cost me 200 dollars and all day to go look at this truck so I'am thinking about it. The way the ad is writen up the person mentions if you buy this truck you will make 70,000 dollars a year. And the other stuff done to the truck makes me a little woried aswell. Its like the person is trying to oversell the truck what are they trying to hide.

I do have my eye on a 86 and 88 Western Star the 88 has a 365 Cummins which I never heard of I don't know what size that is the other has a 444 Cummins. As I mentioned in previous posts Western Star is common truck around here I may join the crowd and buy a W/S.

[Steve Frazier]

Please keep all comments regarding your search for a truck in this thread. Thanks.

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am considering the 78 W-900 that is at the one dealer I have been talking to. From the pictures the truck is in good shape it. I'am getting frustrated that I can't find a good decent Ford. The dealer has a 96 L-9000 but its way out of my legue at 48,000.

The problem with the Kenworth is its 3406a Cat power I searched the internet and I can't find any info I can't find anybody that has had major problems with them. You punch in 400 Big Cam Cummins there is quite abit of problems with them. The truck has a 10spd its not that great but I could live with it.

I think I can deal with the dealer and get the truck for 12 grand which would be a good deal if the truck looks as good as in the pictures. The truck is certified and ready to go.

I can't keep procrastinating (sp) if I want to get in the business I might aswell take a chance. I know Ford 9000s have better turning radius but I think I will be waiting forever trying to find one that isn't beat to crap. I found a 86 as I meantioned but it sounds like its been haywired together and the person wants 22,000 for it.

I know where I can find a 79 W-900 its 400 Cummins power from the picture it doesn't look as clean as the 78 but it has a cheaper engine to repair and has a 13spd.

I just can't get it out of my mind that the old KWs are tougher built trucks I'am not scared to buy a 78 KW but I definatly wouldn't buy a 78 Ford.

The loss of manueverability will be a little inconvience but reliability of the old KWs makes up for it.

I'am going to phone around on tuesday and see what kind of deal I can make I don't know if waiting for a 9000 Ford to come up forsale is a good idea. I may end up loosing work.

What do you guys think ?

[nedly05]

Sounds like you should go with the Kenworth. As long as it has a Cat you will be good. I would trade manueverabilty for reliabilty as long as it wasnt urealistic. I can't believe that it is as bad as everyone is saying. I used to drive an old R-688ST Mack. I can't believe that it's too much worse than that.That sucker didn't turn worth a dang. I would say go with the Kenworth. Make sure it has a JAKE. Be sure and post some pics, you know how we are around here:bouncegri

[Steve Frazier]

Take a look at www.rockanddirt.com, there are plenty of trucks listed there. I saw an LTL9000 set up for dirt for 28K in the most recent issue. There are lots of trucks here in the States available, it ought to be worth the trip for you to come down and drive one home.

[Dwan Hall]

I was driving around hauling snow in my L9000 thinking of you. True it is nice to say look I have a "KW" or a "Pete" But the reason I got this hauling job was because neather of the others wanted to haul in the tight areas around town. Every time I make a U-turn I am glade I am driving what I have.
I mo driveay have paid to much for mine but over the last 7 years it has paid for itself every year.
This truck was a used county truck from eastern Washington, Cat power, w/345,000 miles. It was gon through by a shop in Spokane and then painted, For some reason they did not install a new brake on 1 of the front wheels but they did replace all the others, That brake failed after 3 years and then cost me aroune $400 to repair, I have sence replaced the air compreasure (due to passing oil) and done work on the other front brake. The truck now has a little over 450,000 miles and still a joy to drive. It was plumbed for a sander and snow plow which I do not use. We had a slow winter 3 years ago and I removed the box and repainted it. O =ther then that nothing has had to be done to it. I paid $28,000 for it plus $600 freight to get it here.

I would like to say I have a KW or a Pete but if I did it would be sitting back at the shop and I would be home watching TV instead of working now.

oops I am on the wrong puter will post a picture later

[Ford LT-9000]

I slept on it last night I really don't know if its worth the risk buying a truck with a 3406a. One of the old guys that I know said you have to mortgage your house to buy a Cat crank shaft. Like I said the truck is in good shape its why I'am considering it and I know I can probably get it cheap but it might not be worth it. If the engine does blow I'am looking at 14,000 dollars for a rebuilt.

The old W-900a do have horrible turning radius do I really want to suffer with it and having ease of maintenance on the truck. As I meantioned most of my dump truck experience is on 9000 Fords so I know how tight the wheels will turn. Mack trucks are really horrible for turning they are on par with the old KWs.

The 86 Ford I meantion has a real odd spread on the rear axles its what bugs me about the truck. Its spread a little too wide for what we run. Somebody has changed the rear axles.

[Ford LT-9000]

Okay guys I finally found a 9000 Ford its a 1990 LT-9000 has 3406 Cat power 15spd I emailed the dealer to get more spec's like what the rear axle and suspension are. The truck is going for 19,000 which is in my price range :thumbsup

I'am hoping the truck has 44 rears if its got 40s not what I want but I can live with it. The same dealer has the old 78 Kenworth I said I would offer 11,000 on it I don't know they would accept that waiting for a reply.

What do you guys think I'am I better off with the Ford it is 12 years newer it does have the better Cat engine I'am hoping a B model Cat. It does have a 15spd over a 10spd. The old KW is still a tougher truck than the old Ford.

The biggest benefit for me about a Ford is the manueverabilty I don't know if I want to sacrifice that. I wish I personally experienced how bad the turning radius of a W-900 is. Like I meantioned I know where a old Ford can go as thats what I learned on.

[LowBoy]

As for the decision between the two trucks, an old A-model KW is from the very early 80's. The 'ol gal is going to either put you in good shape, or in trouble. Take it from a guy who knows about truck heartaches...I'm not bashing the KW, because I'm a Peterbilt owner, and Paccar products to me carry a higher resale value and are more valuable in general because of the aluminum cabs and doors. The older A-model KW has plywood floorboards, so they may be a little tender, depending on your location.

The Ford LTL is a great truck, and may be a little newer, but it's hard telling.The steel cab & doors are a little bit of a concern to me, living in salt and liquid calcium country. The LTL is also a little bit more of a bear to do any motor work because of the cowl being in the way.(Hopefully you won't have to experience that...)

I think if I had to make the decision you are facing, I'd look at the big, critical issues. How's the motor, transmission, drivetrain? Good tires,brakes, etc.? Overall body condition? Leaks anywhere? All these things will help you make a qualified decision. Keep in mind the Kenworth's in the early 80's...I don't know how old your Ford is right now.

Good luck in your new venture...

[Ford LT-9000]

Oh I have had lots of frustration working on Louisville Fords I worked for a contractor that has 2 of them. Let me say I learned a few new ways of saying the "F" word.

I live in the rust belt and I know Fords rust pretty good the one truck I worked on the doors were rusting off. I have had to rip into the dash to fix things I have fought with the wiring. I did figure out that the one truck must have been a LN-9000 because it had a bigger dog house in the cab the other was a LT-9000 its dog house wasn't so big. Both truck have 400 Big Cam Cummins. The 85 I worked on the most because it was the oldest truck and it was well worn. You know its a tight fit under a Ford L series when the 400 Cummins is tilted to one side to fit it under the cab and hood.

I had to change the fuel cross over tubes on the 85 you want to talk about freaking frustating :Banghead

When you tilt the hood back on a old A model its wow you can see the whole engine.

I'am waiting back to see what the dealer says I talked to dad I said I found a 90 LT-9000 said they only want 19,000 for it. First thing he said there must be something wrong with it. Now that he said that its making me think why is the truck being sold so cheap. I will have to find out from the dealer especially when they have the 78 Kenworth for 15,000 dollars.

[LowBoy]

Oh, I was thinking he was looking at an LTL-9000...the LT's even worse to work on...but then again, they're ALL bad when they break:Banghead

[Ford LT-9000]

Well I phoned the dealer today the LT-9000 is a fixer upper it needs some work and its not certified. Its not too big of a deal and my hunch was right the truck has a cheap price because it needs work. It does have 20,000 Front 46,000 Rear with locks on spring the engine is a 425 Cat with 15spd.

I have to go look at the truck it sounds like it will work out I just hope it doesn't need major work to have it pass inspection. I can do all the work myself not a problem the only thing I don't like doing is engine work. Doing a clutch I won't do either I don't have the proper transmission jack and most guys leave doing clutches to a mechanic.

I asked about the old KW its ready to go needs nothing turn the key start it up and drive away. I can get the old KW for 13,000 which might be a better deal.

The old Ford I don't know what it needs till I get it home and to my dads shop. If I start tearing into it and see it needs tons of work I might be spending a good chunk of money. The dealer says around 17,000 for the Ford it may need couple thousand in work. It sounds like its been run hard the dealer says he classes it as a site truck. A little worriesome buying a uncertified truck your always into the unknowns.

The new mechanic in the area is a ex Kenworth mechanic he knows the old Kenworth girls inside and out. I asked him what it would take if I had to repower the truck with Cummins power said nothing just the engine all the mounts are the same etc. Said if you wanted to do a repower try find a N-14 perfect engine but he said the old 3406a would probably last a life time.

[Ford LT-9000]

Talking with my dad tonight told him what the Ford dealer told me he said its probably a worn out POS.

Here in B.C. we have a problem with a certain ethnic race of drivers they are known to drive the crap out of their equipment and don't do regular maintenace on their trucks. They just run them to the ground and trade them in. We figure this truck has belonged to one of them its probably going to need a complete brake job front to back. This truck has been traded in on a new Sterling.

The search continues the old KW is still on my mind especially at the price I can get it for.

[tylermckee]

I sat in a 9000 ford the other day and man, i dont know how you could sit in one of those all day. I'm 6'1" and 215, my knees were in the dash, the wheel was in my stomach and i dont even have a beer belly. having to sit so close the the pedals isnt comfortable.

[Ford LT-9000]

Oh I know the L-9000s are pretty cramped in the cab and everything rattles and squeeks.

I mentioned it in one of my earlier posts I was talking with one of the regular truck drivers that pass through at work. He has driven old Fords and he said the dash board is at your knees the mirrors viberate and makes the vision blurry makes you think your on drugs. Hit one bump and all the dust in the cab falls on you.

I have never spent a full day driving a 9000 its only been maybe at most 4 hours a day. I spent most of my time with greasy hands repairing trucks and running rubber tired backhoe.

The biggest benefit of the Ford is turning radius and that is pretty much it the rest of the truck makes it frustrating to work on.

[Ford LT-9000]

I got good news from my bank I'am pre approved for the amount of money I plan on spending. I'am happier than a pig in **** I didn't get rejected :thumbsup

No problems puts my faith back into borrowing money from a bank again :yup

[PSDF350]

Talking with my dad tonight told him what the Ford dealer told me he said its probably a worn out POS.

Here in B.C. we have a problem with a certain ethnic race of drivers they are known to drive the crap out of their equipment and don't do regular maintenace on their trucks. They just run them to the ground and trade them in. We figure this truck has belonged to one of them its probably going to need a complete brake job front to back. This truck has been traded in on a new Sterling.

The search continues the old KW is still on my mind especially at the price I can get it for.

Maybe you should reserve judgement on these trucks till you actually see them. You have already x out several just from your opion of what they'll need without even seeing them. Odds are your right but you still have to go look. Good luck.

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am going to look at the trucks next week. The most expensive part on the Ford will be brakes it might be worth it for me to take some tools to the dealer and take the backing plates off to have a look. I'am not worried about doing repairs but if the truck needs big repairs that are going to cost me a good chunk of money.

The old Kenworth is ready to go the old Ford is not. If the Ford was certified and in decent shape it would be worth a easy 25,000 maybe 30,000.

The sales person I have been talking to knows his Fords he said he has been a mechanic for 20 years working on the old Louisville trucks. When he says he classes the truck as a site truck I believe him and you can tell he knows what a dump truck is supposed to have.

I phoned him about a 9000 he had on the lot earlier this summer the first thing he said its a "Alberta Truck" I was about to ask him if the truck was a Alberta spec'ed truck. What I mean is a Ford with 12-40 axles lower hp.

I was happy that I'am approved at the bank no hassles :thumbsup

[PSDF350]

I was happy that I'am approved at the bank no hassles :thumbsup

That is always a plus.

[Ford LT-9000]

It helps that I have a gov't job but if I was self employeed forget it the bank would just :laugh

It does make me feel better I have hope now that I can try it out and see if I can make it in the excavation business. The area is going to see a rule that no open burning of large piles of brush will be allowed so that will create more work for trucks hauling landclearing debris away from construction sites.

There are quite a few jobsites you can't take a rolloff truck into with a 40 yard can on it because the trees over hanging. Also most places there isn't enough room to drop a bin onto the ground. We haul the brush to the landfill they grind it up and sell it as hog fuel.

[Ford LT-9000]

I have been searching for the BBC (Bumber Back of Cab) measurements it kind of gives you a rough idea how much turning radius the truck has.

Ford LN/LNT 92.3 inches from the front bumper to back of cab 37" hood length
Ford LT 105 inches 50" hood length
Ford LTL 118 inches 55" hood length

Kenworth W-900a like the one truck I'am looking at 120" BBC 63" hood length

Western Star has a 109 or 123 BBS

No wonder with the LNT model Fords with the 400 Cummins power half the engine is in the cab with the total length of the cab only being 7'7" long where as the LT cab length is 8'7" a difference of close to 13 inches.

Now look at the old Kenworth it has a cab length of 10 feet :D which is 15 inches longer than the Ford cab. The cab width looking from the side makes the old KW approx 57 inches where as the LT Ford 55 inches not much difference in belly room.

The difference between the LNT and W-900 is big the hood on the Ford is 26 inches shorter and the total cab length is 27"s shorter. No wonder the Louis I drove could go anywhere the sucker barely had had a hood over infront.

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am totally disgusted looks like I won't be going into the dirt hauling all the trucks I looked at were total crap. The Kenworth I talked about it was a piece of junk the other Kenworth was a real pile of crap. The Ford I was going to look at wasn't there it was sold. They had a 97 Ford there just come in it was well worn it needed 10 new tires the box was banged up.

The one Kenworth that I could have got for 12,000 wasn't worth it, it was a site truck the 79 Kenworth they person wanted 18,000 the truck wasn't worth 10,000 and the box on it wouldn't beable to hold dirt.

The 97 Ford was 30,000 as is where is all 8 drive tires were bald and needed replacing the steer tires were 40%. The driver seat was baffed out I raised it up all the way and it still went to the floor when you sat on it. The driverside fender was held on with pop rivits its been torn off and haywired back on.

So if I want to get into the dump truck business it looks like a borderline decent truck is going to cost me 40 grand. Its not going to be worth spending 40 grand on a dump its not going to pay for itself for the amount of work I will get. Talk about frustrating :Banghead

I learned one thing pictures are decieving the 79 Kenworth even the 78 looked decent but man oh man see them in person especially the 79 I'am surprised the truck was road legal :eek:

If I want a dump truck I may have to build one myself get a decent used ex logging truck for 15,000 and buy a box for it.

[Jeff D.]

I think what you've described is the reason why converted trucks are so popular. A truck that's started out as a dump truck is going to have lived a hard life by the time it's gotton to the age you're looking at. I'd think a log truck might also have had a tough life. My 79 Binder is a fine example. I put alot of money in it to get it where it is. You wouldn't want to buy a worn out truck, just because it's spec'd like you want, if you can't keep it rolling because of breakdown's.

A converted truck may not be spec'd like you want, but if you can find something close enough, with some life still left in it, it may be an option you can afford, to get you started. If all goes well you can upgrade to a better spec'd truck later.

I've a friend who bought a early 90's T600 with a 9 speed and N14. He yanked the sleeper, skirts, plastic bumper off, and used it for a log truck. He only paid $6000 for it.

It wasn't what he wanted, or even close to his bus. partners Western Star, but it did the job, and rarely gave him trouble until he finally sold it. He may have just been lucky, I don't know, but it got him started in the business when he couldn't afford too otherwise.

Since you'de be responsible for everything now, I.e. paying for equipment/parts/maintanance, I'd go back and atleast think about all the options you've poo-poo'd previously. (brand/ spec's/ converted or not/etc.)They might still not be something you'de do, but again, they might not seem so "far out" with cost now being a factor.

Good Luck, I know a guy can lose alot of sleep trying to make some of these desicions.:thumbsup

[Ford LT-9000]

What I couldn't beleive is what the dealer I was at really thinks they can sell the trucks for :confused:

The 97 Ford needed 3500-4000 in new tires it needed a new seat 400 dollars should have had another hood 400 dollars. If I bought the truck right off the bat it would need tires. The truck was still working on a job on monday and brought to the dealer for consignment. Maybe the owner of the truck new they were going to sell the truck but I don't know how they could run drive tires that close to being rejected by the DOT.

Logging trucks are usually not beat up like dump trucks the only problem with converting a log truck is the wheelbase is 244 where a dump truck only needs a 236wb.

A LWB truck tractor will work aswell the dealer has a 84 L-9000 truck tractor it was in good shape it was on spring but the truck was too short.

I'am kicking myself in the azz for not going to the last Richie Bros auction last week I could have bought either a 85 or 89 KW dump for 20 grand.

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Have you considered looking further from home? I know of one really nice Cummins-powered LN with the same owner/operator for most of its life. His health is failing and he'll have to quit sometime soon. Or maybe not...

I knew of another 425 Cat-powered LN that was actively for sale, but that was some months ago.

IMHO you can find great deals on dump trucks in FL right now, as the dump business is in a severe recession.

In fact, I got laid off a month ago! :Banghead: Start my new job monday, in fire truck manufacturing! :bouncegri:

[Countryboy]

Good employment choice Charliefoxtrot. :yup

[Jeff D.]

What's actually involved with bringing a truck from the U.S. into Canada? Is there alot of paperwork involved?

I've no idea how it goes with trucks, but I had a friend who bought a Corvette in Canada and he had a nightmare trying to get it plated down here. He actually had to register it in Wisconsin (at his bro's home) and then transfer it into Minnesota after. A very big headache for him.

Maybe trucks are alot easier though.:beatsme

[Ford LT-9000]

The truck has to be over 15 years old anything newwer then you need to go through h*ll and back trying to get a truck through customs :Banghead

I know a few people that have brought trucks back from California one of the most local guys brought a garbage truck here from California.

I have thought about importing a truck from the US but a person would have to be getting a darn good deal to make up for the expenses getting the truck here.

The guys that have brought trucks from the us are hard to find applications like the garbage truck its hard to find a single axle 5 ton packer they are non existant. Its why the guy here found one in the US and brought it up because a new single axle 5 ton garbage truck is in the 90,000 dollar mark.

As for searching away from home I'am already looking 400kms (640 miles) from home.

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I don't think it should be a big deal. Maybe a little more paperwork than buying locally, but buying from a place without road salt (gotta watch out for sea salt though!) should make it all worthwhile.

I know a guy in Toronto who says it's easy, and I had a roommate who bought a Canadian-titled car from a Canadian living in the US. He had to get the metric speedo replaced with an American one, IIRC. That was about it.

Sorry, that's all the tech I've got.

[CharlieFoxtrot]

The truck has to be over 15 years old anything newwer then you need to go through h*ll and back trying to get a truck through customs :Banghead


You responded while I was typing my last post. Won't most LNs, and all LN's in your price range, be over 15 years old?

[Ford LT-9000]

The salt air on the west coast is a problem you leave a vehical parked where the salt mist can get at it and the truck will rust apart.

I'am not rushing to buy anything now the work has dropped off to nothing if I bought a truck now it wouldn't be working till late January.

[Ford LT-9000]

I'am probably going to start looking for a used logging truck and make my own dump truck. I may have to move the axles forward to shorten up the wheelbase. Have to find a good used box a brandnew box installed with hydraulics is 24,000 dollars.

Most ex logging trucks are Kenworths or Western Stars the older Kenworths 83-89 are W-900s the T-800s didn't come out till the 90s. Ex logging trucks usually have spring suspension double frame 400hp. A person can get them cheaper because there is no big demand for used logging trucks they are too long to be used as day cab truck tractors plus the fact they are on spring so they are a little rough riding for a day cab tractor.

[nedly05]

Charlyfoxtrot:
You must be going to work at the Pierce plant in B-town? I used to live down there, I went throough the fire academy in Sarasota County. Why is the dump truck business in recession? WHen I was there they were everywhere, the construction was BOOMIN'. Who did you work for? I would fly there to get a truck know of any for sale in GOOD shape?

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Sorry so slow!

I was at Sarasota Trucking, and am now at Pierce, as you suspected. I'm tickled pink so far!

I wasn't in dump trucking long enough to really get a grasp on the situation, but people said residential construction has fallen off dramatically; commercial is off somewhat.

Worthy of a new paragraph is this allegation: some companies with reputations for skimming, running illegal trucks, using out-of-town and/or non-english-speaking drivers, not giving a full day's work, etc, are cutting rates and getting most of the remaining business. I found the rate cuts to be only ~$5/hr less than us on hourly jobs, but yardage/tonnage job rates were cut more dramatically. We tended to not commit to jobs like that, as we had (used to have) enough hourly work from customers who trusted us. In my last few weeks there, we reclaimed 4 customers from the less reputable companies as they found our higher rates were a better deal, but it still wasn't enough work.

Anyway, LMK what you're looking for and your price range, and I'll see what's out there.... And if you want a fire truck, give me a call!! ***

kevin

[nedly05]

The building has seemed to drop off everywhere. My gradfather-inlaw lives in Bradenton, he says that a condo that went for 300K last year is now going for 150K:eek: By the way, My FD up here has 2 pierces and our sister station 5 miles away has 5!:thumbsup

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Pierce is the #1 builder of fire trucks in the world, with an annual production double that of the #2 company, also located in FL. It's cool to be #1! :thumbsup

The ballon in the condo market here was even bigger than the one in the house market. I wanted to sell our house last year at the peak, rent a place for a year, then buy again after the bubble burst. We could have been ahead $50k, easy, and gotten a nicer house in the end! My wife wasn't excited about the idea, so here we are....

[Countryboy]

90% of our ladders and pumpers are Pierce at our 8 stations. We have a Heavy Rescue that is a hybrid E-One and our light rescues are F-650s. We also have several stump jumpers that are ex-military trucks varying in model.

[Steve Frazier]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-original-dump-truck_W0QQitemZ320064181671QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6373 4QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Ford LT-9000]

The local ecomomy doesn't look too promising for 2007 I think we might be seeing the current dump trucks in the area parked because the lack of work.

Its probably not a good move for me to buy a dump truck now if the economy is taking a nose dive.

[Ford LT-9000]

Well the truck I went to look at went from 15,000 dollars to 7000 dollars. When I looked at the truck the engine didn't seem very good I didn't buy the truck. Now I see the dealers add say as is where is engine needs repairs thank god I didn't buy the truck.

Sure helps to have some mechanical skills I doubt that truck will sell nobody wants to take on the expensive task of fixing a 3406A model Cat engine. If the truck was 400 Cummins Power I would head down to the dealer tommorow to buy the truck for 7 grand. You can fix a 400 Cummins pretty cheap. The one of the new mechanics in the area I made friends with says the 3406A is a expensive engine to repair.

I think the dealer is going to end up selling the truck for scrap not many people are interested in old A model Kenworths anymore. That truck needs work beside the engine.

I'am so glad I didn't buy the truck I would have been spending 10 grand on engine work.

[Steve Frazier]

Has the economy taken a sudden upward turn?

[Ford LT-9000]

No the local ecomomy is still very slow it has the realtors in the area a little worried. Nothing is selling so if no bare lots are selling no new houses are being built which means no work for excavation contractors or nail pounders.

Right now projects started last year are being finished up otherwise the excavation contractors are trying to find jobs to keep their guys working.

[kvallts]

Go drive an old kenworth and see what its like for yourself.:thumbsupi have a 75 kenworth i still haul logs with ,you can't go wrong