View Full Version : Any rumours/news on D12?
cr500
10-26-2006, 07:08 PM
Are there any rumours or news as to if or when Cat will build a D12 to compete size wise with the Komatsu 575? I have heard some rumours that once the new C175 engines are underway ,then a D12 will come out and other Cat people have said that they dont want to cut into the market for D11s. Any news?
9420pullpan
10-26-2006, 10:02 PM
i heard from a source that Bethel had one and it was somewhere in Wyoming but they say that it is protected but security 24/7 that is just what i have heard. when i was at the conexpo i asked the cat guys they said that they have to plans but do not have any intentions of building one b/c there is no real market for it...
Would love to see one if they ever built it. can you imagine that monster?
D11RCD
09-19-2008, 11:49 PM
i heard from a source that Bethel had one and it was somewhere in Wyoming but they say that it is protected but security 24/7 that is just what i have heard. when i was at the conexpo i asked the cat guys they said that they have to plans but do not have any intentions of building one b/c there is no real market for it...
I wonder if someone could find it on google earth!
I wonder if someone could find it on google earth!
I would say it's pretty unlikely since they have never built a prototype. The rumor about Bethel is just that, a rumor.
Brian
Squizzy246B
09-20-2008, 07:01 AM
I believe there is a D12 working out at Orabanda or Broad Arrow.....driven by a guy in a white suit who keeps saying "thank ya very much" and its serviced by some guy called S Claus who keeps his tools in some sort of sled.:rolleyes:
catd8t
09-21-2008, 10:23 AM
hahahahahaha funny cause its santa hahahaha
biggixxerjim
09-21-2008, 11:04 AM
u mean santa's not real???
Sparffo
09-21-2008, 12:25 PM
u mean santa's not real???
santa lives in Finland, Rovaniemi http://www.santaclaus.fi/?deptid=8132
:D
how many reindeers are needed to pull a fictionary D12?
95zIV
09-21-2008, 01:00 PM
santa lives in Finland, Rovaniemi http://www.santaclaus.fi/?deptid=8132
:D
how many reindeers are needed to pull a fictionary D12?
You mean he's not in Alaska?:Banghead http://www.santaclausehouse.com/
Sparffo
09-22-2008, 05:36 AM
You mean he's not in Alaska?:Banghead
just when we figured out that he exists, now we have to figure out which is the genuine santa :eek:
I bet one is made in China! maybe at the same factory as the D12 seen in toy stores :D
Bellboy
09-22-2008, 10:17 AM
I believe there is a D12 working out at Orabanda or Broad Arrow.....driven by a guy in a white suit who keeps saying "thank ya very much" and its serviced by some guy called S Claus who keeps his tools in some sort of sled.:rolleyes:
Well then, I'd best not get one 'coz Santa will fry where I live, and so will his Reindeer. Best replace them with springboks.
nextdoor
09-24-2008, 06:03 AM
I believe there is a D12 working out at Orabanda or Broad Arrow.....driven by a guy in a white suit who keeps saying "thank ya very much" and its serviced by some guy called S Claus who keeps his tools in some sort of sled.:rolleyes:
I know the area well as I used to work there and yep I can vouch that your right as I was the one who used to check the tyre pressures on it every morning!!!:D
Squizzy246B
09-24-2008, 06:28 AM
I know the area well as I used to work there and yep I can vouch that your right as I was the one who used to check the tyre pressures on it every morning!!!:D
I never ran anything more than 25 psi.
I preferred Broad Arrow to Murrin Murrin......too many drop bears at MM.
diggerop
09-24-2008, 06:49 PM
I never ran anything more than 25 psi.
I preferred Broad Arrow to Murrin Murrin......too many drop bears at MM.
Ahhh the dreaded drop bears, they should make a bit of a recovery with all the restrictions on land clearing.
alpro
09-24-2008, 06:59 PM
that would be some piece of equipment
Alpro
digger242j
09-24-2008, 07:04 PM
I know the area well as I used to work there and yep I can vouch that your right as I was the one who used to check the tyre pressures on it every morning!!!:D
Hold on just a minute! I'm calling BS on that. :nono
My neighbor's sister's mailman's younger brother's ex-wife's uncle delivers pizzas in Peoria, and he says that the tire pressures are checked automatically and sent via satellite link to CAT HQ where it shows up on a computer screen. He was delivering a large pepperoni, mushroom and anchovi pizza to the D-12 engineering team, and saw it with his own eyes :yup
tonka
09-24-2008, 07:10 PM
u mean santa's not real???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSH9ryRzHQ4
yes he is!
Squizzy246B
09-24-2008, 07:57 PM
, and he says that the tire pressures are checked automatically and sent via satellite link to CAT HQ where it shows up on a computer screen.
This is sort of true....the tyre pressure system is actually being developed for dump trucks....cause those Moron Truck drivers wont get out of their air-conditioned cabs to check the tyre pressure........The only reason they do get out is to steal your lunch off your D12.
Anyway, on a more serious note, has anyone heard the rumour about the D12 being dropped from the line-up and Cat going straight to the D13???
tonka
09-24-2008, 08:01 PM
no D13.........cuz 13 is an unlucky #........there going straight to the D14......!:D
Squizzy246B
09-24-2008, 08:22 PM
no D13.........cuz 13 is an unlucky #........there going straight to the D14......!:D
Ahhh....well, that explains why I haven't actually heard the rumour then:confused::rolleyes::D
freewheeler
11-28-2008, 01:24 AM
When the rocks get to big for a D11 you put two of them sidexside and you get a D22.
While were wishing, I want a D15. Or why not a D11 with 5 ft wide tracks and a light weight blade, sure would be handy laying down them big stockpiles of sticky subsoil.
roddyo
11-28-2008, 01:55 AM
Ahhh....well, that explains why I haven't actually heard the rumour then:confused::rolleyes::D
It could be like the Corvette. You know they skipped a year around 1986 or 87.
Northart
11-28-2008, 02:59 AM
On the drawing boards ??
special tool
11-28-2008, 06:59 AM
It could be like the Corvette. You know they skipped a year around 1986 or 87.
'83:D
DPete
11-28-2008, 11:05 AM
On the drawing boards ?? Mmmmmm, that's interesting, any more Northart?
RollOver Pete
11-28-2008, 11:11 AM
Nice photochop :thumbsup
:cool:
Northart
11-28-2008, 04:28 PM
Hi DPete, RolloverPete,
I'm sure that was Swishy's imagination at work from the ACMOC BB. He had a lot more.
Quad D11's , SxS D11's, and every combination imaginable.
The Cat D2's pics are his, and the Swamp crawler he found somewhere.
The Quad Triangle track dozer pic was actually a Cat 988 with the Quad Triangle tracks. Just Photoshopped.
roddyo
11-28-2008, 06:03 PM
'83:D
I didn't remember what year it was, I knew if I put something up here someone would correct me.
I about half expected Deas to tell that whatever year it was that Holden a Division of GM made the Corvette that year so in reality there never was a missing year.:D
Cat-385BL
11-28-2008, 06:58 PM
On the drawing boards ??
WTF? LOL nice photoshop.. VERY well done I might add! (The NEW D12!) :D
Deas Plant
11-29-2008, 12:21 AM
Hi, Folks.
Sign in the paymaster's office at 122 mile camp on the Mount Newman Iron Ore Rail Project, Western Australia, 1968:
"If you haven't heard a good rumour by 10 o'clock, START one."
I know nothing of cars - they don't interest me as I have bigger fish to be interested in.
Northart, Swishy did not find that swamp thingummyjig. The clipping was originally emailed to me by a contact in France who has an abiding interest in jungle crushers and he wanted more information, which I was not able to supply. It was reportedly built for clearing work on the long-abandoned Cross-Florida Canal in the late 1950's. I have been told - unconfirmed - that a Fort Lauderdale outfit named Gregg, Gibson and Gregg may have been involved. A bloke who claimed to have worked there as an apprentice reckoned that the older guys used to ocasionally talk about such a beast but he never saw any visual evidence of it.
A contact in Texas once said that a freind of his claimed to have come across some HUGE track pads in a Florida scrap yard. He reckoned his informant claimed that these track pads were 10 feet across, which would match the information in that clipping. That is all I have ever been able to uncover. I have sent out quite a few feelers to different places, almost all fo which have remained un-answered to this day.
I would very much appreciate any further information on this jigger.
roddyo
11-29-2008, 12:35 AM
Hi, Folks.
Sign in the paymaster's office at 122 mile camp on the Mount Newman Iron Ore Rail Project, Western Australia, 1968:
"If you haven't heard a good rumour by 10 o'clock, START one."
I know nothing of cars - they don't interest me as I have bigger fish to be interested in.
Just a little good natured ribbing Deas, I wondered where you have been on this discussion?:D
Deas Plant
11-29-2008, 01:14 AM
Hi, Roddyo.
Us vintage folks sometimes need our nanna naps. 'Sides, I do have a life away from HEF too, surprising as that may seem. LOL.
Haul-Pak
11-29-2008, 01:40 AM
Who are you guy's to say a D12 Dozer isnt been Developed?
I Dont think they need to produce a bigger machine, D11 Dozers sell by the ship load and it's not gonna end anytime soon.
Talk about the electric drive truck's a few year ago would have been laughed out of the forum!
Hey Northart: Nice picture.
Deas Plant
11-29-2008, 05:24 AM
Hi, Haul-Pak.
Even more notably, talk of a Cat diesel-electric dozer would have been greeted with gales of laughter 12 months ago. Not now. Mind you, IMHO the video that they released at the time WAS a bit of a joke.
I personally have NO idea what Cat may have on the drawing board since they have, in their 'limited wisdom', chosen to not take me into their confidence. How-wevver, the only dozer bigger than the D11 currently on the market appears to have shown itself to be a bit of a 'fizzer' with dead ones lying all over the place and D11 sales beating it every which way. Maybe there is a market for a bigger dozer in jobs like mine reclamation which is likely to become an even bigger task in the future.
Maybe I'm a trifle myopic but I can't see a lot of application for a bigger dozer in most contracting/civil engineering situations simply because of the difficulty of moving them, unless somebody can come up with DURABLE form of modular dis-assembly and re-assembly to make the task easier and quicker.
There ARE road-registerable floats currently available that WILL carry up to 250-300 tons but even they would be expensive to use in moving a dozer of say 150-170 tons. What's more, most road authorities, at least DownUnder, tend to frown on using these rigs to transport loads in one piece which could have been broken down into lighter loads. Party poopers. I KNOW the 'gear-jammers' would love to be able to brag that they had shifted a 170-ton dozer somewhere.
Just my 0.02.
Northart
11-29-2008, 09:15 PM
Hello Deas Plant,
Hhmmnn, well if I made a mistake on the photo credit ,it's my fault, I stand corrected.
I have another of the same with Swishy's logo.
This is all I have.
Another colorful local passed away a few yrs ago, claimed to have invented a dozer, with the engine inside the track. Maybe he had something to do with this. He was nearing the end, and was not coherent many times, I suspect to medications. I tried my best to get a clear story, but all was a fog. :(
Deas Plant
11-29-2008, 09:31 PM
Hi, Northart.
I suspect that our photo-phiddling phriend may have pirated those photos from the Florida state archives pages as I have seen them there in connection with the Cross-Florida Canal. The one shown in Swishy's phiddled photos is a smaller version and appears in several places in those archives. I would guess its weight to be around 50 - 60 tons, maybe.
The one in the clipping, I have not been able to find anywhere, especially not in those archives. The caption with the clipping gives its weight as 300 tons.
It's always sad when an old-timer who may have interesting information 'loses the plot' and can no longer communicate properly. We all have to go sometime but I think I'd like to keep most of my marbles until the end. Then again, that might depend on who is around pestering me too. Do you know any of the close friends and associates of the dead man who may have a clue or two about the gadget of which he spoke?
Catchyalater.
Northart
11-29-2008, 10:25 PM
Hello Deas Plant,
No , he was a WW2 veteran, and his associates of the younger days are most elsewhere or gone.
I did glean that he had something to do with the Stretch D8-14A's . He spoke in great detail about the military using them, in Greenland.
There are some here in Alaska somewhere. I seen them years ago , myself. Never even thought about taking a picture back them days. :(
Still looking. The computer age and internet sure has provoked lotsa interest in people like myself, in learning about the history of such. :usa
Deas Plant
11-29-2008, 10:51 PM
Hi, Northart.
I too know a LOT more now than I would have without computers and the internet. What's more, I have been able to share that knowledge and my experience with people up to half a world away whom I may NEVER meet face to face. There are some minuses about the internet, like the spread of child pornography and such like, but I think the plusses FAR outweigh those minuses.
There's no way I could have collected or shared my library of vinatge machinery photos without the 'net either.
Catchyalater.
Northart
11-30-2008, 01:57 AM
Hi Deas Plant,
Just Delete that "NEVER" and change it to "HOPE" .
Like my Dentist said , peoples finances drive their decisions.
Meantime sure is a pleasure to communicate with this modern technology.
My Grandparents thought to recieve a letter with a 3 week old PostMark was just terrific.
Anyway back to modern visions of a BIGGER Caterpillar Dozer . The Moment will come , via technology. Caterpillar has the idea, Modular components .
Like the crane people, strip down into the least moveable parts for legal shipments.
Whats the limits ?? Imagination and the market place. :usa
So, back to the subject. Will the D12 have conventional oval track design or be a high drive? Will it have the electric drive like the new D7E?
Cat-385BL
12-01-2008, 12:04 AM
Greg,
I would imagine if Cat has a D12 in the werkz, it will more then likely be a high sprocket due to the beating the sprocket and drive connection take when a simple oval track, and then also to that extent, it aids those who maintains the operation of the machine, easily accessable to work on with the high track. So, I don't see the D12 if made, being a oval track type dozer.
The new D7E is oval. The high tracks have never impressed me much. The ovals worked well for years. Rumor mill says back to oval to.
Yes and no on the oval drive. On smaller machines, oval makes more sense...less expensive to manufacture, not as much of an advantage performance wise, etc. On larger tractors, elevated sprocket works out better. Cat has gone back to oval track for the smaller machines, but said they are sticking with the elevated sprocket on the larger,,,I think D8 and bigger, but I don't remember for sure.
Brian
biggixxerjim
12-01-2008, 02:28 PM
Im pretty sure that D7E is a high drive.... they have that new D6K with the oval track that is supposed to be a JD 700 fighter. On a machine such as a high production finish dozer like these two, it makes sence to use an oval track.... most of the reasons being lower center of gravity and lighter overall weight of the machine.
But get into some heavy cuts or rough ground.... the high track will shine. My last company had a D5M PAT N/G with a brand new Cat undercarriage on it, and it ate up rock and shale. Just as long as nothing was too big......
The new D7 E photos and video I have seen on U-Tube shows the D7 E as an oval unit. I along with a lot of other guys never developed a taste for high drives.
Im pretty sure that D7E is a high drive....
No, sorry, the D7E is definitely a low drive.
Gavin84w
12-02-2008, 05:49 AM
You may not have developed a taste for the high drive Greg but i am sure you have not sampled working on the low drives either!! From a fitters point it is so superior it is not funny and with the success that design has enjoyed there is no question of how right it is, just take the D11R for example, it is scary how right that tractor is. But as i say to a Komatsu fan in a light hearted way, i am so glad we have such a good number 2, helps make number 1 better!
Flame away boys!!!
we have a d5c hydrostat series III. We finished a job loaded the dozer then unloaded dozer at shop. started tracking to pressure wash got about 10 yards from trailer and the dozer just quit tracking like some sort of switch was turned off. We have checked pressure at pumps 500 psi at idle 5000 psi at open throttle forward and reverse. When we engage tracks you can hear the pumps pressure up but there is no action at the tracks. Tried to pull dozer and both tracks just slid. Had to remove both axles in order to get dozer to move. Checked final drives drained oil no metal and gears look good.
any suggestions are there any sylonoids or switches that could be causing this
Haul-Pak
12-02-2008, 11:46 AM
we have a d5c hydrostat series III. We finished a job loaded the dozer then unloaded dozer at shop. started tracking to pressure wash got about 10 yards from trailer and the dozer just quit tracking like some sort of switch was turned off. We have checked pressure at pumps 500 psi at idle 5000 psi at open throttle forward and reverse. When we engage tracks you can hear the pumps pressure up but there is no action at the tracks. Tried to pull dozer and both tracks just slid. Had to remove both axles in order to get dozer to move. Checked final drives drained oil no metal and gears look good.
any suggestions are there any sylonoids or switches that could be causing this
Cannot be sure as they made a few different D5C III.
Tow Valve: This Valve allow's you to Pump the brake's off if a major component fail's and render's the machine Imobile.
This Is also Used to test the integrity of the brake's at Full power test.
If this lever has shifted then the Pump's will still stroke and send oil to the Motor's but the machine will not move.
Lever under the floor pan.
Thanks for reply. this valve is open and has no pressure on it an any time
Deas Plant
12-02-2008, 02:59 PM
Hi, Edoc.
I don't know if that machine has an automatic brake controlled by the trans lever as the hy-stat track loaders do and, if so, whether the automatic brake in that machine is manually applied or electronic. See if you can tow it with the tracks free by having the engine running and the trans control lever slightly engaged to - hopefully - release the brake. If the tracks are still locked solid, your brake is not releasing.
Note: On most of these hy-stat machines that I have had anything to do with, the trans control lever has to be out of the neutral position with the engine running to release the brake.
Hope this helps.
bigbob
12-02-2008, 05:22 PM
Had issues with my D-3 C ,series 3 this summer. The lever that you pull up on with your left hand had a switch mounted on the release below the throttle area. Had Cat service tech come out to verify problem, replaced switch, problem solved. Tractor would stall the engine as you were moving and come to a rapid stop.
EddieWalker
12-02-2008, 07:10 PM
In the article that I read about the D7E, the reason for not using the high track was the need for as much power as possible from the electric drive motors. The high drive loses too much power and Cat is considering eliminating it.
Eddie
Deas Plant
12-03-2008, 05:53 AM
Hi, EddieWalker.
The blurb that Cat put out to explain why the D7E had oval tracks said that they were planning on keeping the high sprocket design for the bigger tractors, D8 and up, which have the bottom rollers and idlers on bogies and deleting it from the smaller end of the range. The reason is that there is not a lot of gain from the high sprocket system unless you have the bottom rollers and idlers on bogies. Then you get improved ride and better traction, both pretty fair pluses in my book.
Spanrz
12-04-2008, 06:06 AM
Jeez, I heard this D12 rumour years and years ago.... No market for it, (in AUs anyway) specifically not at the current moment, with economic downturn.
The amount of packaging/splitting the machine up for each job would be horrendous.
I would assume it to be around the 130 t range? As D11R CD is around the 110 t
If the D12 was ever made, it would be matched for the large excavators (the old 5130's - 5230's etc etc)
But it would only be a mine spec machine. Maybe it would be too heavy for a lot of applications, limiting it to certain mines.
Undercarriage concerns would be paramount, cost of it as well.
But the new D7E is cutting edge. It's a AC (not DC) drive machine. I just don't know where the electrics will cut it into the market.
Give them to us Aussie's, will give it the best test yet. If we can't break it, no one can.
I can see a lot of electrical / fire related accidents with these machines. AC with thick cables that wear out in harsh conditions, with leaking oils, yep, reciepe for disaster.
The new System One undercarriage is basically run to destruction, then replace, instead of pin / bush turns.
The problem though with system one, is that you have to dismantle/assemble 2 sections at a time (box section), not 1 at a time - like the old system
Will be interesting in about a year. There is no service info on them yet, either.
CAT793
12-04-2008, 06:26 AM
Jeez, I heard this D12 rumour years and years ago.... No market for it, (in AUs anyway) specifically not at the current moment, with economic downturn.
The amount of packaging/splitting the machine up for each job would be horrendous.
I would assume it to be around the 130 t range? As D11R CD is around the 110 t
If the D12 was ever made, it would be matched for the large excavators (the old 5130's - 5230's etc etc)
But it would only be a mine spec machine. Maybe it would be too heavy for a lot of applications, limiting it to certain mines.
Undercarriage concerns would be paramount, cost of it as well.
But the new D7E is cutting edge. It's a AC (not DC) drive machine. I just don't know where the electrics will cut it into the market.
Give them to us Aussie's, will give it the best test yet. If we can't break it, no one can.
I can see a lot of electrical / fire related accidents with these machines. AC with thick cables that wear out in harsh conditions, with leaking oils, yep, reciepe for disaster.
The new System One undercarriage is basically run to destruction, then replace, instead of pin / bush turns.
The problem though with system one, is that you have to dismantle/assemble 2 sections at a time (box section), not 1 at a time - like the old system
Will be interesting in about a year. There is no service info on them yet, either.
In my experience CAT have made electrical Harness cheap as chips to encourage customers to replace them at regular intervals. So if the PCR is 8000hr for generators and motors and cables and harnesses are replaced at the same repair I don't see longevity being a problem. As an example a transmission in a 793C CAT Dumpy is worth approx. $130000 new and run to around 18000 hrs but it is std practice to replace the harness at a cost of $300. I have trouble believing they could make a harness full of copper for that not alone ship it from the USA to OZ!
Deas Plant
12-04-2008, 06:26 AM
Hi, Spanrz.
I'd be more than a litle surprised if Cat hasn't done their homework and pretty much eliminated any chance of electrical fires from their drive system. They would realise that this is a make-or-break for them, at least as far as electrical drive dozers go and I reckon they'll get most of the bugs out of it before they release it.
To me, this innovation is on a par with the high sprocket drive on the first D10's. It's not the FIRST time that it has been done so the thing is to do it BETTER than anybody else.
If there is to be a bigger dozer from Cat, I would reckon it would be in a modular format so that it is easily stripped and re-assembled, similar to what Buster Peterson did with the siamese D8's. They could be stripped or re-assembled in very quick time by unskilled people with minimal tools and equipment. I won't be too surprised if there is a bigger dozer from Cat in the future. I think it's probably more a case of 'when' rather than 'will there be'. The D11's have proven to be among the cheapest ways to strip overburden in the right situation so it stands to reason that a bigger dozer would do it better.
I can't figure why it would be matched to excavators that Cat hasn't produced in 10-15 years or more. It would make more sense to match their dump trucks to current excavator/face shovel models, which I would imgine would be one of their main design criteria. So why wouldn't a bigger dozer be matched to tasks that their current biggest dozer has excelled at, stripping overburden and restoration?
Just my 0.02.
CAT793
12-04-2008, 06:33 AM
I too have heard the stories of D12 drawings and would personally be very surprised if they ever did it (as cool as it may be). D11R cost an absolute BOMB to maintain (more than any other machine) and what would a D12 do that 2x D11R could not achieve for far more convenience!
Gavin84w
12-04-2008, 07:52 AM
Your not comparing a certain central west goldmines costs to run a D11R are you mate, everything costs big on that show.
PS that 3/8 bolt nearly looked like a valve stem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deas Plant
12-04-2008, 08:11 AM
Hi, Cat793
D11R cost an absolute BOMB to maintain (more than any other machine)
I have no experience of the 'Kummagutsa' D575A Superdozer but all the reports that I have heard seem to indicate that it's running and maintenance costs are so high that most are getting parked up. I'd be prepared to bet that there is a higher percentage of all Cat D11's ever built still running and working today than there is of the D575's.
and what would a D12 do that 2x D11R could not achieve for far more convenience!
There is such a thing as economy of scale which maintains that a bigger machine will do a given job cheaper than a smaller one or a number of smaller ones, all other things being equal.
Just my 0.02.
To Gavom84w. Oh contrair. I have indeed sampled working on the oval track Cat final drives, engines, transmissions and just about everything else on them. Us small guys get to and have to do it all. As far as D11's and D10's go us small guys don't have or get any experience with them. As big as it gets here is a D8K. A lot of us small guys don't have much time for the high drives. If all you do is take them apart and put them back together your opinion may be different. As for the rest of us well................that can be a different thing.
Haul-Pak
12-04-2008, 11:37 PM
Thanks for reply. this valve is open and has no pressure on it an any time
Ah well no pressure there mean's the brake's are engaged.
The Pressure for the brake's come's from the rear Main Pump.
Are you sure this pump is at pressure?
When the Tran's lock is in place pressure oil is sent back to the tank for the brake's.
Unlock the Tran's lock and oil is sent to the brake's but it must go through the Tow Valve to get to the brake's.
Have to Investigate more.
Still dont think they will make a D12 ... The Highest Cost pre hour machine here (CAT) is the 385 Hoe's .... They are weak and need constant repair's but they do a Thankless job.
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