Bell 4206 or Case STX530

[Clems06]

Hello,

I am working on procuring about (eventually... initially 10) 30 machines for pulling some reynolds pans on a job with 16 million yards. I was curious what the concesus was on case, being an ag machine, versus bell that's more stout and specifically design for construction apps. Any idea what cost (or cost comparison) would be on these machines per hour. Does anyone have experience running these beasts?

Thanks,

Robby

[9420pullpan]

awesome question this is my thing i wiil tell u my opinion i have done some research as well conexpo etc.. go bell all the way more money but is a construction tractor not a ag tractor. bells headquarters is in atlanta i can hook u up with the representative from bell i was gonna go down and demo one. for the case tractors are GREEN trucks are red. the case quad track is good for muddy material but there undercarraiges do not hold up. the drivetrain is also known to have problems. the bell quad track is awesome the tracks have a pressure sensor in the accumulator to let the operator know if there is a track coming off of if there is too much tension. very nice feature but it does come at a cost the tracked bell is like $380k i think but u can pull up to 3 bowls, the pans i think that a e-ject scraper is the best bc of the design and they are built heavy and have the largest apron opening and also have an accumulator on the lift circuit to act as a cushion hitch improves production. but the miskin is also nice and are very rugged. i could go on and on if u have any other ?'s let me know
if u wanna see some of the bowls at the conexpo look at my pics on the link below under conexpo

[tylermckee]

awesome question this is my thing i wiil tell u my opinion i have done some research as well conexpo etc.. go bell all the way more money but is a construction tractor not a ag tractor. bells headquarters is in atlanta i can hook u up with the representative from bell i was gonna go down and demo one. for the case tractors are GREEN trucks are red. the case quad track is good for muddy material but there undercarraiges do not hold up. the drivetrain is also known to have problems. the bell quad track is awesome the tracks have a pressure sensor in the accumulator to let the operator know if there is a track coming off of if there is too much tension. very nice feature but it does come at a cost the tracked bell is like $380k i think but u can pull up to 3 bowls, the pans i think that a e-ject scraper is the best bc of the design and they are built heavy and have the largest apron opening and also have an accumulator on the lift circuit to act as a cushion hitch improves production. but the miskin is also nice and are very rugged. i could go on and on if u have any other ?'s let me know
if u wanna see some of the bowls at the conexpo look at my pics on the link below under conexpo
the link doesnt seem to be working, at least for me

We're sorry!
The Webshots page you have requested has either moved or no longer exists.

[CascadeScaper]

Wow, 16 million yards. Large project, eh?

I have zero experience with these types of pieces, but I talked to a farmer who ran the Case Quadtracks for a few years. He said he bought one brand new, and one used. The used one went through undercarriages first (obviously) and just like clockwork when the newer one got to about the same age it needed undercarriage work as well. After that, he said they were good machines, if you could keep the tracks on them. He did say that if you didn't keep them cleaned out from excessive mud you'd have problems, but like anything else the mud just eats away at carriages after a while. Honestly, the Bell's look to be better machines and they're built for this application. Doesn't mean you can't use the Case, but Bell definately has the upper hand when it comes to experience in the field.

[JimBruce42]

I have to agree, the Bell scraper tractors are purpose built for that application. The Case's and JD's even with the special scraper package are still based on a farm tractor. The Bells are, from the ground up, made to move dirt.

[Clems06]

Well, the choice is pretty clear then. Bell it is. We're actually going to try a few case and a few bells and a few challengers before we really get going on the next phase. the bid was actually based on bells, and the case have a slightly less cost per hour. so, we were hoping to see if the case would hold up to balls-to-wall production work so we recognize a cost benefit for the owner and ourselves.

Speaking with case, they claim that they have re-engineered their under-carriage and it would not see the problems like they had in the past. However, you are correct and this confirms my concern that these are ag pullers, not construction pieces. The challengers, we've worked with before on large earthmoving jobs, and they've been mediocre at best; we're brining them on more as a control , a basis for comparison. This way we don't get stuck with a bunch of **** over the next couple of years.

Once we get these operators trained, is three pans a legit possibility in this very soft, fluffy, highly organic ****? I am now looking at reynolds 20CY ejectors running tandem. In a ten hour day, is it reasonable to assume these things can be operated 8.2 hrs/day? How comfortable is the cab and how operator friendly are these beasts? Is 320 yards an hour for a 1700' haul unreasonable for one unit (assuming 10 mph avg haul speed) ?


Thanks,

Robby T

[9420pullpan]

have herd bad things about challangers too tracks fallin off etc here is the direct link to my pics


http://community.webshots.com/user/xbl003x

[stuvecorp]

I got a hold of some Ashland scraper dvd's this winter and I would like to put some time running the tractor-pan combo. I suppose it gets old after awhile like everything else? In the dvd's the QuadTrac looked like it was a animal pulling compared to the Deere or Challenger.

Like your new avatar 9420, didn't notice it at first.

[farm_boy]

Don't be so quick on pulling that "its a farm tractor" card. There are significant differences between an ag tractor and a scraper tractor (at least with a Deere).

Here is a quick list of the differences:
1. Articulation joint - The scraper tractors have a much heavier artic joint that consists of greaseable double tapered rollers bearings on top and bottom (similar to every wheel loader made today) while the ag tractor has only a bushing that you can't grease.
2. The Articulation area of a scraper tractor is much much heavier and is made from a fabricated box section versus a cast piece on the ag version.
3. The front frame has extra reinforcements that that the ag version does not have.
4. The axles are 8% bigger on the scraper version.
5. The draw bar is much heavier and purpose built for scraper applications.
6. The scraper version has a tow cable that is connected to the draw bar in order to pull the machine out in case it get stuck.

In addition to the hd features of the scraper special, the Deere (only available with Deere tractor and pans) is the only scraper system out there with Autoload. This allows bascially "green" operators to become productive on the machine within a few hours. This system basically controls the up and down movement of the pans while loading, thus taking away any operator induced stalls, rough cuts, rough fills etc. Read more about it here (http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/scraper_tractors/autoload.html)

Another thing to keep in mind regarding the Bell tractor is they have a extremely week support network. Sure the tractor might be the greatest thing since sliced bread when it is running, but what happens when you have 30 tractors on a job and 10 of them are broken down. There are only a handful of Bell people in the US to support these machines. Another item to consider is that even though "The Bells are, from the ground up, made to move dirt" you have to keep in mind that these are ADT's without a bed. They were never design to pull their guts out day in and day out with these kinds of loads.

As far as 320 yds/hr, this should be no problem at all. I would recommend Deere 9520's with dual 1814E's. These are 18 cu yard pans that have a 14 feet cutting edge. If you are in the soft stuff these 14 feet pans work the best in giving you the most floatation. The main reason is that they have six tires instead of four. The cabs are very nice with fully active suspension seats, auto climate control and finger tip controls. When equipped with Autoload, these are the easiest scraper tractors to operator. Even a novice operator can get in one of these machines and make you money after a couple hours of stick time.

Ok I'll get off my :soapbox Hope this information helps.

[9420pullpan]

oh dont get me wrong i put over 3000 hrs in this baby i love Deere..... i will reply to your long paragraph in a couple days when i got more time

4189

[DPete]

[QUOTE=Clems06;14176]Hello,

I am working on procuring about (eventually... initially 10) 30 machines for pulling some reynolds pans on a job with 16 million yards.

Thanks,

Robby[/QUOTE

That's one he!! of a job, What are you going to dig? DP

[stuvecorp]

How does a wheeled machine compare to one of the tracked machines? I have been looking for hourly or maintenance costs for the QuadTrac and haven't found any. I find these tractor scraper combo interesting, would like to hear more.

[9420pullpan]

i have heard that the quad trax have trouble with their drivetrain and i think that includes the tracks. i know that the bell has sensors on the track to alert you if some thing is wrong such as track being too loose or too tight... i like the bell except for the fact it is an automatic. on the 9520's at least you can pull in the gear you want for the conditions......