Diesel particulate filter.

[salesrep]

Who knows how difficult theses will be to take on and off for service with the new 07 engines?

[Orchard Ex]

I'd guess only folks like Mack, KW, Cat and Cummins etc. at this point. I read that EPA has set cleaning limits at 110,000 to 150,000 miles but the truck/engine manufacturers think they can get much more life out of them. I was surprised that some of the systems will spray fuel onto the filter to raise the temperature and burn off the ash. Exhaust was getting to 1000 deg F. during a "active regeneration":eek:
There is a good little writeup in the June "Equipment Today". Claimed that in vocational trucks it could be years between services, but it did not mention how hard the service would be.

[Jeff D.]

I was surprised that some of the systems will spray fuel onto the filter to raise the temperature and burn off the ash. Exhaust was getting to 1000 deg F. during a "active regeneration":eek:

I read that also, but from a different article. It sounded like the problem with plugging was compounded without the added fuel to burn the ash, when the diesel was idled for extended periods, ie. OTR trucks with sleepers.

The engine fuel efficiencies dropped after the 03 changes, and may drop again after these changes, despite them having increasingly cleaner exhaust.:confused:

Some progress, huh?!?!

[Orchard Ex]

I read that also, but from a different article. It sounded like the problem with plugging was compounded without the added fuel to burn the ash, when the diesel was idled for extended periods, ie. OTR trucks with sleepers.

The engine fuel efficiencies dropped after the 03 changes, and may drop again after these changes, despite them having increasingly cleaner exhaust.:confused:

Some progress, huh?!?!
Yeah, kind of a weird trade off I guess. Neat idea though, It hit me as a "wow, what cool technology", at first. Then more like "wow, another thing to break", then "wow, how much will the exhaust cooler add to that whole system on top of everything else?":eek:
I bet that ash loading in the filters will help APU sales to the OTR guys. I wonder if APU's will become mandatory soon...

[Dozerboy]

I bet if you start running bio diesel the filter will be a lot less trouble.

[Jeff D.]

Orchard, is an APU an "aux. power unit"?? (Either that, or it's the guy selling Squishy's at the Quickie Mart on "The Simpsons" ):bouncegri

I've heard some rumors about the possiblity of those being mandated, but nothing too serious yet.

Some of the fancier ones are $7-8k per unit.:eek:

I haven't heard anything about the effects of Bio-diesel on the new systems. It'll be interesting too see how it does effect them.I know it's very solvent compared to dino-diesel.

[Orchard Ex]

Orchard, is an APU an "aux. power unit"?? (Either that, or it's the guy selling Squishy's at the Quickie Mart on "The Simpsons" ):bouncegri
"Thank you, Come again!" Yep that's what I meant.


I haven't heard anything about the effects of Bio-diesel on the new systems. It'll be interesting too see how it does effect them.I know it's very solvent compared to dino-diesel.
I'd like to try running some bio-D just to say I've done it, but there's none available around here.:(

[puredieselpower]

"Thank you, Come again!" Yep that's what I meant.


I'd like to try running some bio-D just to say I've done it, but there's none available around here.:(

Hey man just cross the bridge and come to the shore plenty of bio just cross the line into Delaware.

[Orchard Ex]

Kind of a haul to go to DE just for fuel for me, but one day maybe... :yup
The local paper did a story on some folks who go over the bridge and bring back barrels of bio to run their VW's and such, but I think that it was fry grease, not the bio/dino mix that sells commercially. Hopefully somebody around here will start selling it.

[Jeff D.]

I just read an article about the newest Detroit series 60. It stated that it will actively regenerate(remove soot) every 200-400 miles. It goes on to say that this is accomplished by dumping approx. 1 gallon of atomized diesel into the exhaust about 6-8 ft upstream of the cannister (particulate filter). It will be activated by a sensor which reads exhaust system backpressure.

[puredieselpower]

I just read an article about the newest Detroit series 60. It stated that it will actively regenerate(remove soot) every 200-400 miles. It goes on to say that this is accomplished by dumping approx. 1 gallon of atomized diesel into the exhaust about 6-8 ft upstream of the cannister (particulate filter). It will be activated by a sensor which reads exhaust system backpressure.

That is what the new 6.4 powerstroke is going to have also. It is going to be something that you have to take back to the dealer to have it looked at like every 50,000 mi.

[John DiMartino]

I just read an article about the newest Detroit series 60. It stated that it will actively regenerate(remove soot) every 200-400 miles. It goes on to say that this is accomplished by dumping approx. 1 gallon of atomized diesel into the exhaust about 6-8 ft upstream of the cannister (particulate filter). It will be activated by a sensor which reads exhaust system backpressure.
Dumping even more fuel must be good for reducing emissions and economy:confused: Theres got to be a better way to clean it without wasting a gallon of fuel every 2-400 miles.

[Steve Frazier]

I was thinking the same thing John!! Kind of defeats the purpose of emissions control!

[Jeff D.]

I was envisioning flames coming out of the stacks. It may give a new meaning to the low blowing exhaust systems they call "Weed burners".

It did say that the reaction in the cannister wouldn't be "burning" in the normal sense. Possibly due to the lack of oxygen left too burn by that point??

[John DiMartino]

Ive been thinking about this,and it would be easy to shut down the engine in the middle of this process.I mean ,how would it know when is a good time to start it?It cant read the drivers mind,and when he will need to pull off and shut down,esp with all these NO IDLING signs in every rest area now.

[digger242j]

Theres got to be a better way to clean it without wasting a gallon of fuel every 2-400 miles.

Certainly a valid thought, but when you think about it, who's going to notice 1/200th of a mpg difference?

[Jeff D.]

..........who's going to notice 1/200th of a mpg difference?

Actually,

If it regenerated once every 200 miles, at 1 gal/cycle, and you were getting 6mpg before, it would reduce your mileage by 3%, or appox .18 mpg.

Driving 100k miles/year @ $3.00/gal. , the regeneration cycle would eat up an additional $1547.00/year.

So there!!:bouncegri

[Jeff D.]

Ive been thinking about this,and it would be easy to shut down the engine in the middle of this process.I mean ,how would it know when is a good time to start it?

Maybe they'll incorperate that system into a delayed engine shut-down system, the kind that are currently available where a driver can pull into a truckstop, pull the keys, and walk away. The truck continues to run until everything is cooled to a safe level.(turbo etc.)

Anything to get a driver to the " all you can eat buffet " faster.:bouncegri

If not, I'd think it'd be problems, just like you said.

[digger242j]

I can't dispute that.

Educate me further...

How much gross revenue will the truck earn in those 100K miles, and what precentage of that is $1,547 ?

[Jeff D.]

I can't dispute that.

Educate me further...

How much gross revenue will the truck earn in those 100K miles, and what precentage of that is $1,547 ?

It would be approx 1% of total gross earnings.

But still, that $1500 could be put in you're pocket, instead of the tank.

You should know by now how tight I am with money. That's how copper wire was invented. Two Dahlgren's got ahold of the same penny!!:yup

I fueled my truck today. I had just under 1/3 tank left. It cost me $637.00 to fill it. Fuel was $3.05/gal.:mad:

I fill it twice a week, or more, if I'm busy. Fuels costing about 50 cents/mile right now, in my truck. The margins are tight, so I really cruntch #'s too make it. 1% here, 1% there, it adds up.

[digger242j]

If two Dahlgrens got hold of the same gallon of diesel fuel I wonder what they could come up with?

Thanks for the insight.

I guess it's just something that you'll have to find a way to pass along to the customers. (Which is a whole nother subject, but I wonder how many people actually realize that all the crap government imposes on business, whether it be environmental, or saftey, or tax consequences, etc., ultimately come out of the pocket of the consumers anyway, in the form of higher prices. If they squeeze the little guy far enough to drive him out of business, whoever takes over for him will just jack the price up anyway...)

[Jeff D.]

I guess it's just something that you'll have to find a way to pass along to the customers.

Yup, that's right.:yup

I run under a contract with the co. I pull for. Everything regarding pay is included in it. The fuel price problem is covered by a fuel surcharge. Without it, trucking would be impossible with fuel prices as they are today. With it, you may be on the winning end( actually making more money as fuel increases, if +6.25 mpg ) or loosing end (making less,below 6.25 mpg). It all depends on the #'s in the surcharge formula.

Our surcharge is based on 6.25 mpg. If I were to buy a brand new truck, that was getting less than 6.25mpg (and many post 03 trucks are) then I could go in the hole very fast with fuel at the prices today. That why trucks average mpg is SO critical. Unless you're going to try and renegotiate a contract whenever you fuel mileage is down. Our 1 contract covers 25 trucks, and usually runs for 3 years (although not carved in stone), so it's a group effort to change it.

If I went down to 5.75 mpg average, I'd have to pull an additional $4k out of my pocket/year @ $3/gal prices. That's why I'm so concerned about the new trucks fuel mileages, and why I'll be waiting a couple years to get more feedback for guys who do buy 07 trucks.