The grader I ran

[digger242j]

A handful of pictures of the grader I ran in about 1976. It was when my Dad was the borough manager of a town near here, and I worked for them for the summer. (Sometimes it's good to be the boss's son. :wink2 ) That's also the first place I got any seat time on a backhoe, so I guess dear old Dad must've had a method to his madness. He exposed me to as much equipment that summer as he could, for which I am eternally grateful. (On some days--other days I wish he'd have encouraged me to get a job at the Quickie Mart.)

The white, with blue and red stripes, is the color scheme Dad had all the borough equipment painted in when he was there.

BTW, I took these pics last week at the local heavy truck and equipment garage there in town. I'm not sure if the old girl is DOA there, or is waiting for parts.

[Grader4me]

What year was the old girl?

[digger242j]

What year was the old girl?


I'm not sure. I took that shot of that label, thinking it might've had that info--I didn't have time to read it that day, or even stop in and ask, and I don't think I was even aware of it back in 76. If you zoom in on the label, it has a bunch of patent numbers, and some of the overseas ones are dated. I think the newest patent listed is from 1960, so it's a safe bet that it's newer than that, but probably not by much.

I wish I could've gotten a little wider shot, but there's another trailer parked a little further away on the near side too, so I was as far away as I could get.

[Grader4me]

I can't tell by the picture but did it have a starting motor?

[digger242j]

Hand crank.


:slomo

I presume you mean electric starting motor, as opposed to a pony motor.

Actually, I'm sure it did, because I don't remember it being a chore to start it. If it had a pony motor, I'm sure I'd remember that.

[Grader4me]

Digger, The reason I was asking is that I started out operating a grader similar to that. It was a 1963 Cat I believe (might have been a little newer) and it had a pup motor to start the main engine.
I remember after starting the pup motor you pulled a big lever back on your right beside the seat to start the engine. Thanks for posting the pics....brought back old memories:)

[dayexco]

what year did cat go from knuckle buster to hydraulic?

[Grader4me]

I am not sure of the exact year, early 70's maybe? I could be off base here though.

[plowking740]

it looks a 12 E model. I learned on a similar one, then i mooved up to a 12F.
They looked almost the same, except it wasnt a 'knuckle buster" It had some kind of Hydraulic assist. If you exerted it, all you would feel is a small clicking in the lever. the only problem, the consol would get Very hot. so hot it made a can of coke explode one day and filled the cab with the sticky stuff. Thanks to the conslole, I have no hair growing on the front of my shins.
I have a picture if you want. (the 12 f , not my shins)

[Jeff D.]

I have a picture if you want. (the 12 f ...

:thumbsup Always!!

[Grader4me]

it looks a 12 E model. I learned on a similar one, then i mooved up to a 12F.
They looked almost the same, except it wasnt a 'knuckle buster" It had some kind of Hydraulic assist. If you exerted it, all you would feel is a small clicking in the lever. the only problem, the consol would get Very hot. so hot it made a can of coke explode one day and filled the cab with the sticky stuff. Thanks to the conslole, I have no hair growing on the front of my shins.
I have a picture if you want. (the 12 f , not my shins)

Be great to see the picture. Any idea what year your grader was? I'm interested in knowing about the hydraulic assist in the "old girls" I went from knuckle buster to full hydraulics. Did it have a pony motor (I call it pup) to start the main engine? I wonder what year Cat went from knuckle buster to this kind of hydraulic assist.

[plowking740]

Here is the 12 F I ran for three years befor I got a bigger machine
Im told that is a late 1960's model. My father new the guy that delivered it. He drove it 200 k from the city of Winnipeg to the city of Brandon MB.

Im not sure how the hydraulics assist worked. I do know that on the lift arms, there were little stops mounted and when the arms were raised too high, they pushed on a little valve, that stopped all motion on that lever.
I never had the systed apart, so I m not sure what went on in there. I know that it could get very hard on shear pins for the gear box that came up through the floor. at $ 10.20 a pin, it could eat up any profit you had for the day..

it had a 24 volt electrial system and its own starter. Im not sure of the horse power, but it was bigger than the E model, and a little heavier, a Bucket seat instead of the bench and because the gear box for the blade lift came from the front of the machine, and not mounted on the front wall of the cab, you got two lower windows.

[Grader4me]

Probally a cadillac in its time. Be interesting to know the exact years that the Cat grader evolved from knuckle buster (early 60's ?) to the hydraulic assist (mid to late 60's?) to the full hydraulics (early 70's?)
We may not be correct in our terms of describing each system, but I think everyone knows what we mean.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[digger242j]

...a Bucket seat instead of the bench and because the gear box for the blade lift came from the front of the machine, and not mounted on the front wall of the cab, you got two lower windows.

Which would make the one I ran the older of the two. It has the bench seat, and the blade lift mounted on the front of the cab.

If I have the time one day I'll stop and try to find out the particulars on mine.

[Grader4me]

Digger..heres a question that will probally make you scratch your head. In your picture there are the two shifting levers, do you remember the shifting sequence? The one that I run was the same, but it is not coming back to me how it shifted (I'm scratching really hard to)
I remember the old 77 Champion that I run had the two shifting levers, the one nearest you was the high & low and the other was the one to four making it an eight speed. The Cat was different but I just can't remember how...I guess it has been around 30 years ago since I run it so things would be a little foggy.
Plowking what was the shift on your grader?

[plowking740]

I think all the cat graders of that time had them. the leaver close thedrivers leg, was the main transmision that let you shift forward and reverse. the out side one was high/low lever. you went to first, with the main lever, then threw the the other one forward to hit second, shifted the main to the next gear and pulled the high/ low back to hit third. threw it worward to hit forth and so on. It was almost imposible to shift all the way to 6 without grinding at least one of the gears. The High/low lever was the worst on for that.

[Grader4me]

Yup, it come back to me now. Thanks!

[Engineer4255]

Cat changed to full hydraulic with the G model, which came out in 74'. Regarding the shift patterns on the older machines, there were actually a couple depending on how old they were. I have ran a couple with reverse on the high/low shift lever, think these were older model 14D's from the 50's, but most were the shift pattern you described. The F models were the ones with the "semi-hydraulic" controls, which were cadillacs compared to having your elbows dislodged on the D and E models. Some people used to try to eliminate the hammering by using a lighter oil in the gear boxes, but that just made things eventually worse. Some graders would actually bounce the controls all by themselves until you touched the lever. You can check the side of the haunch in front of the cab on your Red/White/Blue grader for the serial #, and that will tell ya the year from the series. They were tough, old, fun machines that make you appreciate the ones today.

[Grader4me]

Cat changed to full hydraulic with the G model, which came out in 74'. Regarding the shift patterns on the older machines, there were actually a couple depending on how old they were. I have ran a couple with reverse on the high/low shift lever, think these were older model 14D's from the 50's, but most were the shift pattern you described. The F models were the ones with the "semi-hydraulic" controls, which were cadillacs compared to having your elbows dislodged on the D and E models. Some people used to try to eliminate the hammering by using a lighter oil in the gear boxes, but that just made things eventually worse. Some graders would actually bounce the controls all by themselves until you touched the lever. You can check the side of the haunch in front of the cab on your Red/White/Blue grader for the serial #, and that will tell ya the year from the series. They were tough, old, fun machines that make you appreciate the ones today.

Welcome to HEF! This is really good information...thanks! I remember the old Cat that I started out on (must have been the D or E model, and this was over 30 years ago) the levers would, as you decribe start going back and forth by themselves. I remember if you gave the moldboard lift lever a quick push ahead when applying more pressure when cutting, let go and it would go back and forth by itself at a very quick speed. I was always leery to grab ahold of the lever while it was into this fit for fear of breaking my wrist...usually stopped it with my foot.
I also remember that it was hard on shear pins when applying to much down pressure. Ah...memories...:rolleyes:

[OzDozer]

Probally a cadillac in its time. Be interesting to know the exact years that the Cat grader evolved from knuckle buster (early 60's ?) to the hydraulic assist (mid to late 60's?) to the full hydraulics (early 70's?)
We may not be correct in our terms of describing each system, but I think everyone knows what we mean.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?Grader4me - The terms are pretty much correct.
The 'knuckle buster' Cat graders were mechanical dog clutches .. the 'hyd assist' models, were exactly that .. hyd assist for the dog clutches. A complex, but reliable system .. but expensive to build.
Cat could not be convinced for decades, that a hyd system could be invented that wouldn't creep. Lack of blade creep was touted as THE greatest feature of mechanical Cat graders .. right after reliability.

digger242j's grader looks to me like an early-to-mid 1960's (maybe '61-'65), 99E series 12E. The 99E was produced from 1959 to 1965. The identical model was built in Australia, and known here as the 21F series. His pic shows a dry aircleaner, which did not appear until around 1959-1960 (depending on model).

The 12F replaced the 12E in 1965, with 'hyd assist' controls.
The Cat 16 was the first with power assisted blade controls, in 1963 .. and the smaller models of grader followed with hyd assist, within 2-3 years.
The first of the all-hydraulic G-series graders, were released in 1973.

Gearshift on the late 99E/21F models, is 6 speed main, and 4 speed reverse. The lever closest to you, is the main box, the lever furtherest away, is the reverse range selector. A simple three gates forward, and three gates back, on the main .. and a basic H-pattern for the reverse lever.

The 12E's started off with a two speed reverse in 1938, and changed to a 4 speed reverse about 1962, from memory.
The 12E was largely unchanged, except for engineering improvements, for nearly 30 years in the U.S., and over 30 years, in other countries ..
The 12E's were produced up until 1975, in Australia, and were upgraded here in 1968, with a fancy, sloping windscreen cab. These were the 17K series, and were a real nice machine with 125HP from the 3306 .. provided you still didn't mind knuckle buster controls .. :D

[Grader4me]

That is the kind of information that I was looking for ...Thanks OzDozer. I stated before that my all time favorite grader was a 78 Cat 140G. This replaced the 77 Champion 720 with a 4 cylinder screamin detroit(POS). This Cat grader is still in service and working very well. Body is a little rough though.

Thanks again for the information as I was curious to how everything fell in place.

[Motor Grader]

I wish I knew more about the year of the equipment shown here. My Dad's uncle was a farmer and they lived down a 1.5 mile dirt road. I was told that the Farmall tractor was the first thing they ever financed. It had a front end loader attachment (factory installed) that was hydraulically raised and lowered. It has a pull rope to dump the bucket. The pull grader was a Stockland brand and manufactured in Minneapolis, MN. Guess he would have been the man around that area with his new tractor and grader. I'm hoping to get both of these restored and take them to the tractor shows around NC. Guess they look kinda bad in these pics but the tractor has been sitting under the shed pretty much it's whole life so I'm hoping it won't be too big of a project to restore. Amazing enough the blade still moves up and down with little effort on the grader.

[equipment fan]

The first pictures of the cat grader in this thread is the grand-father of the cat m-series:D

[wrenchbender]

Great pics. Motor Grader I like the idea of restoring old iron and most anything you need for the old FarmAll is still around. BTW what kinda truck is that out past the grader sorta looks GI?

[928G Boy]

every once in a while, my old man teaches me a little bit on the grader with our old girl... pre-war cat AT12. i should post up some pics... a true knuckle buster, most levers have snapped and been welded back together at some point... it had a pup motor originally of course but my grandpa converted it to electric start in the early 90s... We want to sell it and get a newer machine... I'd like to buy a cheap old champ 740 with my own money this winter for snow removal... this old AT12 still does the trick for snow but reverse gear is slow... not too efficient when clearing parking lots.

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Folks.
I may be getting just a tad fossilised now and maybe some of the grey matter ain't working like it used to - maybe it never did - but I seem to remember that the old 2-speed reverse gearboxes had a normal 'H' pattern with reverse to the rear of the same slot that had low gear in the main box at the front. These 2 gear positions were nearest the operator. The other 2 positions on the other side of the 'H' were 2nd to the front and 3rd to the rear.

The range lever, the stick further away from the operator, had high forward and low back. This meant that you could bump the range lever forward to high and bring the main box from 1st gear back to reverse in what almost amounted to one continuous movement, forward, across, back. The range lever was involved in every shift changing either up or down while the main box was only changed every other shift.

Again, if my memory serves me right, when the 4-speed reverse came out, there was another slot added to the main box, inboard of the 1st-reverse slot, with high reverse being to the rear in that slot. There was no gear position to the front of neutral in that slot. Selecting high reverse was a 'round-the-corner' shift. I think the 4-speed reverse came in during the production run of the 21F series.

Still relying on memory, I don't think the Cat 12 grader became the Cat 12E until about the 99E series that OzDozer mentioned earlier, or maybe even with the 21F series, and remained the 'E' series here in Australia until production of the locally-produced 17K series ended shortly after the first of the 'G' series arrived here. I believe the equivalent of the 17K in North America was the 70D but I'm not sure if you 'tother-siders' ever got the nifty forward sloping windscreen that we got here in DownUnder.

There were a lot of 14E's released here in DownUnder with the hydraulic-assisted controls. I did see one 112F grader but I never did see any F-series Cat 12's. Wish I had 'cos I enjoyed running the couple of 14E's that I got my butt on.

Those old gear controls were called 'knuckle-busters' by a lot of operators but a LOT of operators either didn't know or didn't take the time to perform the adjustments that were there to make them work more smoothly. I worked with one owner-operator who had beem running his early 17K Cat 12E for 9 years and didn't know that there were any adjustments, let alone how to do them. I spent about 1 1/2 hours each on 2 consecutive nights doing these adjustments for him and showing him how at the same time. After the 2nd night's effort, he announced that it was a different machine. Cost - nothing but a little labour.

Just as a matter of interest, if any of my memories above are wrong, I'd appreciate knowing about it 'cos it's been over 20 years since I ran one of those old girls.

Hope this helps.

[Grader4me]

Those old gear controls were called 'knuckle-busters' by a lot of operators but a LOT of operators either didn't know or didn't take the time to perform the adjustments that were there to make them work more smoothly. I worked with one owner-operator who had beem running his early 17K Cat 12E for 9 years and didn't know that there were any adjustments, let alone how to do them. I spent about 1 1/2 hours each on 2 consecutive nights doing these adjustments for him and showing him how at the same time. After the 2nd night's effort, he announced that it was a different machine. Cost - nothing but a little labour.

Just as a matter of interest, if any of my memories above are wrong, I'd appreciate knowing about it 'cos it's been over 20 years since I ran one of those old girls.

Hope this helps.

Hi Deas, I for one had no idea that you could adjust the darn thing, and apparently no one else in my outfit had a clue either.
Thanks for all this good info. Memory? I would say that your old grey matter is working pretty good! Heck...I have a hard time remembering what I did yesterday:)

[plowking740]

I never knew that they could be adjusted. when the graes got bad and started 'bust a knuckel', we would take all the grears out and build them up a little bit with the welder and then re-shape them with a 5 inch grinder. usually took 3/4 of a day to do the full set in a 12 or 120 grader.

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Folks.
Once again for those who missed it wherever I posted it last time, the 'destructions' for adjusting Cat blade lift controls on older gearcontrolled graders.

Firstly, for those looking to achieve a quick fix for worn dog clutches in the control box itself, there AIN'T one. If you want to restore your dog clutches to like-new condition, you need to do one of two things:
a. Buy new ones - 100% reliable
b. Have them rebuilt and ground back to NEW specs - less reliable as you need first to get hold of the technical data relating to correct pitches, etc., then find an engineering shop that can do it properly.

Plowking740's trick of grinding them back with an angle grinder may make an improvement but will NOT return them to new condition.

First step - remove the inspection plugs on top of each Hi-lift gear case - the big round cases on each side of the front face of the cab. Then loosen the clamp bolts on the lift arms at the front ends of the lift shafts and remove the keys from the blade lift arms. Now slowly rotate the hi-lift gear inspecting it as it turns to find the least worn section which will be around 1/3 of its total circumference. When you have found the least worn section, which should be at the top if you are looking at that section, mark the top of the lift shaft and turn that mark to the bottom.

When the mark is at the bottom, replace the key in the lift arm in the nearest keyway that lines up - there should be 3 keyways in the shaft - tighten the clamp bolts and replace the inspection plug in the top of the gear case.

Second step - locate the blade lift pinion at the bottom of the Hi-lift gear case - it is the smaller round part of the Hi-lift gear case running across the bottom of the main case. In most models of Cat grader with the gear lift system, there is a large adjusting screw in the outboard end of the pinion gear case. This adjusting screw has a lock nut on it. With the blade lifted SLIGHTLY, loosen the locking nut and turn the adjusting screw in until it starts to become firm - NOT DEAD TIGHT - and re-tighten the locking nut.

When you have done both sides, test the controls by raising and lowering the balde several times, including applying down pressure on the blade. If you have done everything correctly, the controls ought to be a little easier. If the controls got tighter, the most likely cause is that you have over-tightened the pinion adjustment. Remember, I said,'NOT DEAD TIGHT'.

(I have encountered a couple of old Cat 12's that did not have this pinion adjustment.)

Later 21F's and 17K's/70D's had a small brake arrangement at the front end of the drive shaft coming from the control box. It IS possible to have this brake adjusted too tight.

The Hi-lift gears are replaceable. They are usually made from aluminium - or brass in earlier machines - so that they wear out before the steel pinion gear that drives them. To replace them, you need to unbolt the Hi-lift gear cases from the front of the cab and the bearing mounts from the mounting arms at the front end of the lift shafts and slide the gear cases forward to allow access to the bolts holding the Hi-lift gears to the flange on the end of the lift shaft. It does help if you have a small crane or a block and tackle to take the weight of the gear case and shaft as you slide it forward.

As with any repair, it also helps if you have a workshop manual handy. And, if it was me doing it, I'd be checking the pinion gear and bearings and whatever else I could get at before I put it all back together.

There is also adjustment for circle clearance - shims under the circle carriers - and location - set screws to adjust the carriers in or out. Be careful when adjusting these as circles tend to wear unevenly and you could make some tight places if you get too carried away here. If the circle carriers are excessively worn, they can be re-built either by welding some thin plate - say 1/8" - on them or by re-building with weld metal. I prefer welding on some thin plate as it is usually unnecessary to grind off the finished surface. You may then need some shims to maintain clearance.

Shims were also included ex-factory in the various ball joints in the blade lift, side shift and scarifier lift and can be removed to help reduce slack in these areas - if there are any left. If not, the cups can be ground as a rough means of tightening them - you may need some shims after you have ground the cups if you get too carried with the grinding.

Hope this helps somebody. Steve or Digger, is there currently any place on the forum to store stuff like this and, if not, can a place be made?

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Folks.
A couple more adjustment tips. There WERE also shims built into the mounting of the side-shift gearbox to adjust the meshing of the side-shift pinion gear with the side-shift slide. As well, there were shims between the two halves of the side-shift slide to adjust for wear on the slide guide. Be a little careful with both of these as there is almost always more wear toward the middle of the side-shift slide and you don't need things so tight that they begin to jam up.

You could also adjust the lean wheel rack on the lean wheel top brace down to cater for wear between the rack and the pinion.

Happy tinkering.

[Bellboy]

What they call a finger slapper, yes?

[Cletus]

I have a 1957 70D. The right blade lift drifts down some times. You think it might have a brake adj.? I will be able to look at it in a couple days and will try your other adjustments this winter. I have it semi disasembled for sand blasting and painting but still use it to blade the yard. My backup blade is a 1942 9K. I'll post some pictures soon.

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Cletus.
Welkum too ther 4um.

I have never seen a 70D Cat 12 as they were American-built. We had the 17K DownUnder which was the DownUnder-built equivalent of the 70D. It had a small brake arrangement on the front of the control shaft in front of the control box, So long as the linings are in reasonable condition, there brakes gave very little trouble, at least in my experience.

What a lot of people don't realise is that a lot of the braking for the blade lift came from correct adjustment of the worm pinion under the blade lift gear. Many earlier models of Cat grader didn't have the brake arrangement on the front of the control shaft.

That pinion adjustment is the screw and locking nut under the blade lift gear facing to the outside of the machine. With minimal weight hanging DOWN on the blade lift, loosen the lock nut and tighten the adjusting screw until it is barely firm then re-tighten the locking nut. I found that a home-made wrench in an 'L' shape with the leg of the 'L' made to fit the slot in the adjusting screw was a handy tool to have around Cat 12's.

Hope this helps.