GPS/Laser for Graders

[Grader4me]

Have any of you grader operators ever tryed or are using the laser or GPS systems?
I have never operated a grader with this technology. Always had to use the old eyeball and at times had the pleasure of going by grade stakes.
Just wondering what system is the best and if it is hard to get used to. I viewed some previous threads on this but maybe we can get this rolling again. Like I say this is all new to me so any info would be appreciated.

[plowking740]

I have used a laser on both a 140 g and a 730 Champion. We found that the Champion was a little slow to react, so it would take an extra pass or two to do it right. The rep for the laser said that he had a few problems with Champ, somithing to do with the flow of the pump.

The cat, was really good. Used it to do some slab floors in a few wearhouses and it was fast. the setup in the morning was the slowest part of the job. all you have do was dial in what you wanted for a slop and flip two toggle switches (one for each side of the blade ). The system on the Champion was
a Laser Aligen and Im not too sure what the Cat.
If I was going to buy a grader, I would consider buying a system as well. If it is set right, you cant go wrong.

[Grader4me]

The cat, was really good. Used it to do some slab floors in a few wearhouses and it was fast. the setup in the morning was the slowest part of the job. all you have do was dial in what you wanted for a slop and flip two toggle switches (one for each side of the blade ). The system on the Champion was
a Laser Aligen and Im not too sure what the Cat.
If I was going to buy a grader, I would consider buying a system as well. If it is set right, you cant go wrong.

I have never even been close to one before so excuse my ignorance. So you set it up before the job for the slope that you want, flip the two toggle switches, then does it give you a reading as to what slope you have after the cut etc.? Bear with me...think of it as training a new guy:wink2 I am just trying to get it into my head how it works.

[plowking740]

The systems that I have used both had a 'head' that mounted in the cab.
on this, you could dial in how much cross fall you wanted, or to keep every thing flat (0%) and on which sid of the machine. The laser align system had a button on top the was called 'swap' which you would hit when ever you turned round.

On the corner of the mould board, you had a large pole which you mounted a Laser reciever. Usually this ran to a hight higher than the cap and the laser was set up on a tipod that was also quite high off the ground. .

We also had a pole mounted on th corners of the blade which you could mount a "sonic" to, and run it along a curb, a string line or even the last pass that you made. This was good on wide jobs, make the first pass along the string/curb and then you hit a button to tell it to used the last pass and just keep going across. We used on on a running for summer games here in Canada, and we got some very tight tolerances. They take a little to set up and get used to , but they take all the stress, and fun out of running a grader. Makes it good because running equipment is becoming a lost artform, and some of the kids now adays dont have the paitence to fiddle with something like that.

[Grader4me]

Couldn't ask for any better explaination than that! Modern technology:spaz Yeah you are right...seems that it would take all the fun out of it. Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this to me. I now have a better understanding on how it works.

[Dozerboy]

We ran one but if we ever hit a rock the blade would dive down and make a large divot in you grade.:mad:

[plowking740]

I found that it was best to do all the rough grading first and get as close as you can, then use the laser. It seemed to work the fastest, plus all your grading is nice fine material. It can get very hard getting 3 inch material to a tolerance of 1/4 inch. or less.

[upandownsmooth]

i just finished a running track for a high school .half a percent all the way around.I ran the lazer off the string line and followed with running off my last pass, half a day it was done.100percent right on.My first time on the lazer and ive been grading for 10years.I had help ,a guy from the lazer (forget the name of the lazer)Company Geotech,Spent a couple hours with me, now im all set.Can't wait to do more with the lazer.

[Grader4me]

I would like to give one a go. I suppose once you got the hang of it you wouldn't want to do it any other way.
Plowking, are most of the graders for the paving outfits etc. rigged up with these in your area? You probally know why I am asking:wink2

[plowking740]

Just about every company here that has more thatn two machines, I hve noticed that they have at least one that is set for the laser/gps system.
If you are doing slab on grade, they are a must, but fror something as simple as a street, I havent seen any used here. If it were me, i would get all my base in and shaped, and do my final trim with the system. it gets you closeer and more consistant, faster. But it dosent work like that. get it close, +/-
1/2 inch and your good to go. thats the one thing i learned here, the tolerances are a little less than im used to. they like there asphalt, fill it up.

[Grader4me]

i just finished a running track for a high school .half a percent all the way around.I ran the lazer off the string line and followed with running off my last pass, half a day it was done.100percent right on.My first time on the lazer and ive been grading for 10years.I had help ,a guy from the lazer (forget the name of the lazer)Company Geotech,Spent a couple hours with me, now im all set.Can't wait to do more with the lazer.


The grader that you are running, is it the Cat you were mentioning in one of your posts?
During the 10 years of operating what kind of graders have you operated? I guess that I am getting away from the topic,:eek: but what the heck...I just like talking about graders.
Can you hijack your own thread?:confused: I'm so good at doing it to everyone elses:yup

[tylermckee]

I would love to try operating a grader, i guess after i get some property ill have to look for an old grader i can waste my time and money on. A guy can never have too many projects.

[plowking740]

i have only been running a grader for about 14 years now, but i have been able to give almost everything a try. here is the list
cat 12e, 12f, 120 140 g 160H
champion 710, 740, 600
John deere 570 and 770bh
Komatsu. Demo unit, not sure on size.

I have the most time a 740 Champ and cat 12f, but after a while, they all become the same after you learn the machines little quarks.

for comfort, i think it is the new Cat 160 h i just got, but for visibality it was the 740 Champ.
its a lotta graders considering i started in the business running a loader.

[upandownsmooth]

In 10 years i ran mostly the 570 JD,we have alot of those here.I ran the komatsu GD650 and a newer champion, forget the #.I only tried that cat for half a day.I don't want that job.GPS is on all the time and they work way to many hours for me.And i can talk grader all day.I love my job.oh yeah last year i tried a brand new 770JD with front wheel drive ,with a 12 foot blade.wow.They had to drag me off that machine.For me that was the best of them all.

[Grader4me]

I would love to try operating a grader, i guess after i get some property ill have to look for an old grader i can waste my time and money on. A guy can never have too many projects.


You know what? I found over the years that if you are a good operator (I believe this is a god given talent) lets say for example on an excavator, then you can adapt to any piece of equipment and with a little seat time, do it well. You might and will have perferences on what you like the best but you will conquer any machine.
Take notice of the guy that is operating a hoe and is very rough for example. Put him on a grader, dozer or even a truck and most times it will be the same. Compare him to the smooth hoe operator and no matter what he is operating it is going to be the same....smooth

[Grader4me]

I have the most time a 740 Champ and cat 12f, but after a while, they all become the same after you learn the machines little quarks.

for comfort, i think it is the new Cat 160 h i just got, but for visibality it was the 740 Champ.
its a lotta graders considering i started in the business running a loader.


What is the 740 champ like for power compared to the Cat 160h? I know the 720VHP Champ that I run had more stuff than the Cat 140G. At maximum the Champ was putting out around 205 Hp and if I can remember correctly the Cat was around 170 HP
I found the Cat controls far better than the Champ though...smoother and more responsive. As the Champ got older the moldboard lift levers even started to stick (valve bank problem)

Yes for 14 years you operated a lot of graders. I listed some of the ones that I operated on previous posts. Try an old Gallion or Wabco, even a Huber, now they were something to cut your eye teeth on!
Maybe Deas Plant will read this...I bet he could give us a long list:yup

[plowking740]

i think that the 740 still had a bit more power that the 160. I have noticed the blade might have a little diferent curve to it, making the gravel 'boil' a bit better on heavy pushes.
the 160 is heavier but I think that is because it has a Ripper on the back and push block on the front. my old champ had a dozer blade which made it a little heavier on the front. yes, the controls were not as responsive as the cat, it turned a tighter circle, easier to maintain ( less grease fitings) , but i liked the view from the champ, and lay out of the cab.
there is another grader that i forgot to add, and you might laugh at it, but i had a lot of fun running it.
it was about a 1910 russel that was bulled by a team of clydsdales horses.
it was a real work out trying to cut, but for just dragging road, it was a blast. it is also a two man job. (driver and blademan)

[Grader4me]

160. there is another grader that i forgot to add, and you might laugh at it, but i had a lot of fun running it.
it was about a 1910 russel that was bulled by a team of clydsdales horses.
it was a real work out trying to cut, but for just dragging road, it was a blast. it is also a two man job. (driver and blademan)


:eek: There is no way that I can top that one! :notworthy My god man how old are you? Seriously...that would be an experience of a life time and would be an experience that you would never forget. Gives you a better understanding on just how hard they worked back then to make a road passable.

[plowking740]

im only 35, but i had a neighbour out in the country that had a team of heavy horses that he and some friends used to put on Threshing displays with. they had steam tractors and every thing. he used the horses around the farm just doing little jobs, and he pick up this old grader from some other farmer. he used it to maintain his driveway. ( about a 1/4 mile)

it was a quite a treat, listing to the horses stomp, a lot quieter than the old diesel roaring behind your head. the only bad thing is you had to stand at the back, and because it had steel wheels, you felt every rock and viberation out there. gets a little hard on the legs and back.

should this post go under 'sitting or standin'?

[Grader4me]

it was a quite a treat, listing to the horses stomp, a lot quieter than the old diesel roaring behind your head. the only bad thing is you had to stand at the back, and because it had steel wheels, you felt every rock and viberation out there. gets a little hard on the legs and back.

should this post go under 'sitting or standin'?


This would be one of those times that you would get no argument about standin
I have another question for you...do you use your bulldozer blade in the front very much? I had one and it was 9 feet wide, so that there was about 6 inches beyond each front tire. I found the 8 foot ones never worked as well because sometimes the outside edges of the tires would ride up on a rock etc. and throw your leveling off.
I wouldn't want to operate a grader without one. After winter operations was over I would mount my front blade and keep it on until the next winter. It had so many uses.
How about you upandownsmooth...have a front blade? I am so far off the original topic now, god knows what is coming next:laugh

[plowking740]

i totaly agree with you on the dozer blade. it was handy every day. from pushing piles that a truck dumped, to pulling out corners. it saved having a skip loader or a skid steer on site all the time. I really like it for placing Geotec. you could push the piles of pitrun in and then back up and keep shaping your road at the same time. I seemed to never get a little too much in one spot or not enough. The one that was mounted on the champ was shop built using a winch and cable wing from a cat 12 e. it took me 4 years of whining to get it, and buy the end of the year, we had three more for other graders once they realised how handy they were.

[Grader4me]

Yes it works really well for spreading material on geotec or fabric. Having the trucks dumping back to back (one side of the road at a time) you could level with the front blade and shape with the moldboard.
The one that I had was shop made as well. We purchased the steel, had it curved(rolled) and then reinforced it. Now we have a manufacturing company (Craigs) that make these blades. Very rugged and professional looking. This is the same company that manufactures most of our plow equipment as well. We purchased a blade for one of our Graders, and the operator was quite negative about getting one because he thought that it would just be something else to carry around and have no purpose. One week with it on and you couldn't pay him enough to take it off. Figures it is the greatest invention since the wheel. :)

[plowking740]

I know that this will be on topic, which is unusual for some of these threads.

We have finally installed the lazer on the grader and I have been doing sub grade on some slab preps in wherehouses. It takes all the stress out ot the job. I have about a half hour set up time in the morning, then it is all smooth sailing all day. all I have to do is remember to hit the switch to turn it on and away I go.

I will be doing a 110,000 sq foot wherehouse starting monday and I want about 200 tones/hour of material coming in. I should have no trouble placing it even without the lazer but we'll see.

here are some picts of the machine doing subgrade

[RonG]

Is that tripod sitting in the bed of the pickup??It must be an illusion but it could have fooled me.The laser has sure taken a lot of the pain out of fine grading but I find myself cross checking against my control points after a while just for reassurance.I have never had the opportunity to use GPS with the receiver in the cab or any of the fancy gadgets.It would be fun to try.Ron G

[plowking740]

yes, the tripod is in the back of the truck. I have to set it there because it has to shoot over the cab of the grader, and its the only way to get it high enough. Yes, we can afford $130 000 for a GPS/laser control system, but not a few hundred for a tall tripod. I works great inside a building, but outside in the wind, not so much. we are getting a bracket built that we can stick to the steel pillars to hold the Laser instead of a tripod.

The grader is also equiped with a full GPS blade control and when I start using it, ill post some pictures. I guess we are having some problems getting someone to input the data into a usable form for the graders computer. :beatsme :bash

[Grader4me]

:cool: Keep us posted on how you make out. Maybe you can give me an online mini course on using a laser control system :wink2

[mxsledder]

What size grader is that and how do you like it,plowking?

[plowking740]

its a John Deere 772d. there are a few things I like about it, but its no Cat.
not a easy to maintain, bad on fuel, and the seat is not as comfortable. but it comes with some really cool electronics that I get to play with.

[plowking740]

It took two and half days to do the warehouse, the first day was mostly spent waiting for material. For some reason we only got a few of the trucks that we ordered, so we were only doing about 250 tph. the second day we flooded the job with 16 trucks, some tandems with pups and some wagons. Its nice to get the material, but it was hard to move around at times with all the trucks dumping.
I had a good crew to work with, that makes a BIG differance, and makes for a nice final results.

We re on to an even bigger building now (350 000 sq ft) but we keep getting slowed down by other trades, like the plumbers that realise that they forgot to run a line for a bathroom and had to dig up about 300 feet of finished sub grade. Oh well, thats life i guess

[Grader4me]

Good to hear that your job turned out well.

The grader is also equiped with a full GPS blade control and when I start using it, ill post some pictures. I guess we are having some problems getting someone to input the data into a usable form for the graders computer.

So did you get it fixed, and is this what you used? Were you able to take pictures?

[928G Boy]

it seems that all i do these days is setup gps and laser for my company... we have accugrade/trimble system on a 140H, gps with laser augmentation.

[willemdegrader]

i use the Trimble gcs 900 system on my grader.its equipped with gps and laser augmentation.
gps only(without laser augmentation)works great for rough grading,and for the fine grading the laser is setup very easily.just find out the best spot to place the laser.
although it works great you always have to check your finished grade.