the new Cat D6's..... [Archive] - Heavy Equipment Forums

Tigerotor77W

06-02-2006, 05:02 PM

Haha, no, Squizzy! Now it's my turn to blush and say that I was NOT being sarcastic. I'm curious to know where he heard this information, was all.

Edit: oh, heck, I'll stop beating around the bush... I wasn't sure if this was public information yet, but it's on govbidspec.cat.com:

http://govbidspec.cat.com/cda/files/135071/7/D6N%20Specalog.pdf

So yes, 9420, is the answer to your question. There is a new "MVP" program for certain tractors in the lineup.

9420pullpan

06-02-2006, 07:41 PM

the forum that i had read it on was DHS diecast. i think you could def use a few more gears in those dozers..... thank you

Tigerotor77W

06-02-2006, 11:59 PM

I had a feeling you were going to say that. I hadn't seen it on there and was curious where it was posted. Thanks for the info.

Edit: searched for it and found it. Thanks.

JimBruce42

06-03-2006, 11:59 PM

Will the new D6's still have the tiller controls and differential steering? Or is it going to be a FTC machine now?

murray83

06-04-2006, 10:13 AM

sweet a dozer i can afford :bouncegri

Tigerotor77W

06-04-2006, 01:06 PM

Still diff steer, according to the literature. Though I'm not sure what will happen for Tier III -- the current production D6N is still Tier II.

Jeez, I've had to edit nearly every post I've made in this thread... anyhow -- the D6N will retain diff steer; the D5N retains FTC.

9420pullpan

02-25-2007, 09:41 PM

farm_boy

02-26-2007, 01:03 AM

hey 9520....that 6T picture looks familar :D

Tiger....Is this an actual "5" speed transmission or did they just put a lock up TC in the machine and give the operator the choice of locking up 1st and 2nd gears?

According to the Specalog:

The Multi Velocity Program (MVP) is an
innovative machine control system that
allows the operator to choose from five
different speed ranges in Forward and
Reverse, providing the operator with
the flexibility to match machine speed
to a variety of applications and ground
conditions. This exclusive solution allows
the operator to maximize production,
minimize fuel consumption,and lower
overall machine operating costs.

Sounds like an attempt to do the same thing a hydrostatic transmission has been doing for years:idea

Countryboy

02-26-2007, 01:24 AM

Sounds like an attempt to do the same thing a hydrostatic transmission has been doing for years:idea

To bad Cat didn't use the hydrostatic tranny and have infinite settings instead of just 5. :D

Tigerotor77W

02-26-2007, 08:30 AM

Agreed with you both. :( At least the 6K has a hystat now.

Not sure about the lock-up TC... it will take me a while to find out (next few weeks are really busy).

biggixxerjim

02-26-2007, 05:47 PM

To bad Cat didn't use the hydrostatic tranny and have infinite settings instead of just 5. :D

I dunno, personally, all those infinite settings for the Hystat is a little anoying.... I always felt that one of the best geared dozers were the old 550g series Deere's. They had 4 forwards and 4 reverse, but a lock up TC made them a little bit of a pain.

I think the D6 has enough nut to where it doesnt need optimal gearing all the time......:usa

farm_boy

02-27-2007, 11:54 PM

I think the D6 has enough nut to where it doesnt need optimal gearing all the time......:usa

If the 6T does have enough nut.....why are the boys in Peoria adding more ranges :naughty

DLMKA

06-19-2007, 12:43 PM

The D6T has MVP which is a "soft" gear between 1st and 2nd and between 2nd and 3rd. It is entirely software based. It is a feature that can be turned off using a rocker switch in the cab. Basically when shifting to the next gear the transmission shifts up and slows the engine. On the next upshift it the engine speed goes back up to the normal high idle.

biggixxerjim

06-19-2007, 08:00 PM

huh????

Countryboy

06-19-2007, 08:04 PM

Welcome to HEF DLMKA! :drinkup

digger242j

06-19-2007, 08:12 PM

DLMKA, I'll second Countryboy's welcome, and add that, especially when it comes to the technical aspects of CAT equipment, we always appreciate hearing from well-informed members from Illinois. :)

Wulf

06-19-2007, 08:18 PM

huh????

From Cat.com:

Multi Velocity Program (MVP)
The Multi Velocity Program (MVP) is an innovative machine control system that allows the operator to choose from five different speed ranges in Forward and Reverse, providing the operator with the flexibility to match machine speed to a variety of applications and ground conditions. This exclusive solution allows the operator to maximize production, minimize fuel consumption,and lower overall machine operating costs. MVP provides the operator with five speed ranges in both Forward and Reverse. The engine speed in each speed range has been optimized to provide the best performance, fuel economy, and drawbar pull. The operator retains the ability to operate the machine in either the 3 speed or 5 speed

Hope this is not construed as CAT advertising... ;) *** ;)

RollOver Pete

06-19-2007, 11:28 PM

surfer-joe

06-20-2007, 12:18 AM

I want to run one with the "available auto wipe." At my age this is a valuable function!!!!...........

mtb345

06-20-2007, 02:04 PM

:cool2 the first dozer i ran had a picture of a turtle and a rabbit ttthat all folks

Dozerboy

06-20-2007, 05:17 PM

Cookie dispensers now that's an idea, I think Pete has a fear of change. There is no amount of gizmo's that will make a bad operator good.;)

Will the new ones go faster too? I could sure use a 5th gear to educate some of our thick headed scraper hands.:D

Hjolli

06-20-2007, 07:47 PM

These "soft gears" sound like a good compromize. After all you wouldn´t run your car with the throttle all the down all the time would you?

Lashlander

06-21-2007, 12:00 AM

I hate all this new trash on all this equipment and its not because I hate change. Its because of reliability. Nobody but the dealers with the proper computers can fix this new stuff and sometimes not even then. It would be fine if you work across the street from a dealer but thats not the case up here. If I'm on a job out the chain and have some thing go down it costs thousands just to get someone out there to fix it. Not counting sitting there for days on end waiting for them to show up. We bought a new hydraulic power pack a couple years ago. Its got a Cat C12 with all the bells and whistles and has been nothing but trouble. We've had to fly a Cat mechanic in 3 times to work on it. The last time we had just picked up a piling and was swinging it in place and it just shut down. No way would it fire back up. We were lucky we were'nt out on a remote job. We had to move the barge into the beach, haul our other machine in, swap them out. By that time we lost the tide and an entire day.
The Cat man flew in the next day, the computer on it had fried. $4,500 dollars for the computer Airfare, meals and motel labor and freight, all total ran around $7500.
Tell ya the truth I'd rather have a D333 with a rope pull pony motor any day.

Deas Plant

06-21-2007, 08:39 AM

Hi, Lashlander.
I'm with you on this one. All these bells and whistles are nice - - - when they are WORKING. I have been fairly lucky in that I have yet to have an electronic or software failure on a Cat machine, although the electronic transmission control did pack it in on a Kummagutsa GD825 grader back in 1997. That took about 3 weeks to fix, partly due to lackka interest on the part of the owner and partly due to lackka spares at Kummagutsa.

However, if you want to know about electronics and reliability, ask King Of Obsolete why he uses 1940's vintage tractors in his snow-freighting business.

And don't forget that trucks and even your friendly family car are all going the same way. How does that thought affect your breakfast?

Another aspect of this that I have aired elsewhere before is the fact that, with all this 'U-Bewt' new-fangled gadgetry, operators are not having to work as hard and consequently are getting less physical exercise. What will be the long-term result with regard to health?

Lashlander

06-21-2007, 09:09 AM

Yup, I know the whole world is going that way. Just last night my wifes car decided to shut off in the middle of the road. Its now sitting at the Ford dealer. They said it could be a week before they can get to it.
All the new electronic stuff is cool but I'd rather have a linkage going to a valve body.
Speaking of The King, I haven't seen him around for a while. Hope alls well.

Dozerboy

06-21-2007, 06:38 PM

Grader4me

06-21-2007, 07:32 PM

Ya all have a point and thats something the owner should consider before buying new iron. But if it wasn't for all these new gadgets we would all still be running knuckle busters and most of us will live longer then the guys from the old days.

Well, most of us from the old days got a little exercise while operating the old knuckle busters. What kind of exercise are you young gaffers getting with all of your new fangled gadgets? Hummm... maybe some more thought should go into who's going to live longer....:D

DLMKA

06-22-2007, 12:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7dc7G78PCc

D6T on the left D6RIII on the right, notice the decreased turning radius on the D6T. Both machines have the same undercarriage and tracks. I've had the opportunity to operate both and the D6T is fantastic. Steering control is on par or exceeds D8T steering.

Dozerboy

06-22-2007, 12:38 PM

Well, most of us from the old days got a little while exercise operating the old knuckle busters. What kind of exercise are you young gaffers getting with all of your new fangled gadgets? Hummm... maybe some more thought should go into who's going to live longer....:D

Oh trust me I know I sit on my butt and do nothing all day long at work, but I get plenty of exercise outside of work.

Grader4me

06-22-2007, 01:05 PM

Lol..Yeah I know...just jokin around with ya

Wulf

06-22-2007, 09:29 PM

D6T on the left D6RIII on the right, notice the decreased turning radius on the D6T. Both machines have the same undercarriage and tracks. I've had the opportunity to operate both and the D6T is fantastic. Steering control is on par or exceeds D8T steering.

Nice video DLKMA. The other thing they are demonstrating is the ability to operate the implements when steering. There is very little reduction in track rotation speed so there must be separate pumps and plenty of horsepower for each circuit.

That kind of almost counter-rotation will wear the undercarriage out really quickly so I wouldn't be doing a lot of that if it were my dozer :)

Deas Plant

06-23-2007, 07:28 AM

Hi, Wulf.
I have not run a D6T so so do not know if the tracks WILL counter-rotate like the D6R but it would be one huge step backwards if they did not. The kind of manoeverability/rate-of-turning shown in that video clip is a LONG way short of counter-rotation. I have used counter-rotation fairly extensively in the Cat Track loaders, mainly 943's and 953's, and it doesn't seem to wear the tracks much if any more than turns like those demonstrated in that video clip, at least in my estimation.

A dozer with full grousers would certainly chew up the ground a little more than a track loader and may also generate a little more strain on the various parts of the track system in counter-rotation turns but the same is true in slower turns too.

Hi, DMLKA. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the link.

Wulf

06-23-2007, 04:23 PM

I have not run a D6T so so do not know if the tracks WILL counter-rotate like the D6R but it would be one huge step backwards if they did not

Well Deas sorry I wasn't aware that any of the Cat differential steer type dozers would actually counter-rotate and by that I mean with one sprocket turning forward and the other in reverse.

I know the hydrostatic track loaders will because there are two independent motors and the new D6K is hydrostatic and will counter-rotate. I wonder if DKLMA has link to a video of that... please :)

RollOver Pete

06-23-2007, 07:15 PM

Cookie dispensers now that's an idea, I think Pete has a fear of change.

No, I don't have a fear of change.
Sometimes change is good. The problem I have with change is that it is not always for the better.
I'm running a D10R in Rancho Cucomonga and I go to throttle it up. I push the little plastic sissy throttle gizmo and it falls apart. :Banghead
Half of it is sitting on the floor and the other half has fallen thru the plastic dash and is no where to be found :bash
The dozer runs but only at an idle....which does me no good.
I think to myself, "Self, whose idea of an improvement was this?" What college educated moron thought up of this brilliant design?"
I have run dozer's since I was in my teens and never had the old design fall apart like this plastic piece of engineering vomit.
IMHO, this change was not good.
So, after removing the plastic dash thingy and finding the missing half of the rocker switch I am able to piece everything back together and get to work.
A D9L a 10R will never be.
:cool2

Deas Plant

06-23-2007, 11:36 PM

Hi, Wulf.
I have been on 2 D6R's and a D6H and all three would TRY to counter-rotate if you had the transmission in neutral and moved the steering tiller one way or the other. I say 'TRY' because, unless you had big mobs of revs, it was a rather half-hearted effort.

For mine, the Cat 'diff-steer' system is all very nice to work with where you have bog mobs of room. For tighter spaces, give me the old clutch-and-brake system every time. And, the way the clutch-and-brake steering is set up on the D10-D11R's, providing it is correctly adjusted, is a very nice system but then I don't mind the system on the D8H's and D9G's and all down the line of the smaller tractors of that era.

I do think that Cat lost a bit of sensitivity in their steering when they went to integrated systems and I persisted in using the clutch and brake separately for fine work in the D8K's and D9H's. I was also somewhat disgusted with the steering performance of the D8-D9L's but later models seem to have improved a bit. One of the best I have run was a D5B wide gauge dozer. Neat!

The 'Kummagutsa' D455 dozer also had contra-rotating steering - pull one steering handle and press a pedal on the floor near your left foot and the track whose steering lever you had pulled would turn in the opposite direction to the transmission control setting. To achieve this, the D455 had two separate transmissions, the power being split after the torque converter.

Even earlier than that amongst the bigger machines, the Euclid TC12 had contra-rotating tracks in 1955 but it also had 2 engines and 2 transmissions.

Case/Terratrac had a system in which you could contra-rotate the tracks but I don't know exactly when they brought it in. I know they had it in the 1150 loaders but I don't when it was introduced. You had 4 little levers between your legs, 2 for hi-lo range and 2 for forward/reverse, and you could use any combination of hi-lo/forward-reverse that you liked. Each lever also had its own neutral position.

Squizzy246B

06-23-2007, 11:43 PM

I have run dozer's since I was in my teens and never had the old design fall apart like this plastic piece of engineering vomit.
IMHO, this change was not good.

Pete, don't hold back...tell us what you really think!:rolleyes:

Deas Plant

06-24-2007, 12:05 AM

Hi, RollOverPete.
I'm with Squizzy, Mate. Don't hold back. Give us a brief rundown on the reproductive functions, capabilities and ancestry of the person or people who designed this particular 'gem' of an 'improvement'.

Tigerotor77W

06-24-2007, 05:32 PM

Amazing!
Bells and whistles to make up for what used to be an art.
Sure, the new tractors are nice and all...
With their heated seats, DVD players, cookie dispensers, espresso makers, and on the high end models an available auto wipe :Pointhead
What took the "special touch" at one time is now a matter of flipping a switch.
I wonder if these new machines will still be running 30 years from now like a
9G, 8K, 988B or 657B ?
Can plastic last that long?
:cool2

I need to come back to this thread to address this some more. Some interesting points, to be sure... :)

DLMKA, can you email me or Private Message me sometime? I can't get to you until you have a few more posts.

Dozerboy

06-25-2007, 06:25 PM

Pete I feel the same way about those stupid POS rocker switches. I'd love to me the idiot that decided that was a good idea I'd chew him a new....:ban

Ross

06-26-2007, 07:28 PM

Well if you want another point of view on this wandering topic other than operating then here you go.

I done some repair work on a D6R with "Diffsteer" and there a nightmare to work on. Even servicing the machine was pretty time consuming. Anybody ever changed a Fandrive belt on one? :Banghead

The tractor will only counter-rotate if traction is equal under both tracks. (Apparently)

Iam somewhat confused about CAT's new Dual-Differental. If the Steer Motor is turning when the machines in neutral, wouldn't the torque take the easiest path and travel back and turn the un-engaged output shaft on the transmission?

Also. Turning the tracks the opposite way cannot be good for the pump/motor. Overloading the components.

This must be ok or CAT would have sorted the electrics so the steer pump won't stoke up when the transmissions in netural?

Ross

Wulf

06-26-2007, 11:12 PM

The tractor will only counter-rotate if traction is equal under both tracks. (Apparently)

Ross, I have greater knowledge of the Komatsu system such as D61, D65, D85, D155 and 275... on these machines the single steering motor is mounted above the bevel gear case and through some gearing kind of 'meshes with the cross shaft'. It is locked/not rotating when the machine is travelling straight and transmission power is transmitted equally to left and right final drives. When the steering lever is selected the motor turns, in whatever direction required thus changing the reduction in the planetary sets connected to left and right final drive, so one track speeds up and the other slows down.

When 'counter-rotating' (just as Deas descibed on the D6R) with the transmission in neutral and the steering lever selected only the steering motor is providing power to the final drives. If the machine is on a hard surface or shop floor the machine will turn on a dime (sixpence to you gents) but if there is much more than a little grouser penetration or rolling resistance the dozer will find it hard to turn without engaging forward or reverse motion. Sounds like Caterpillar uses similar technology (I think)

Whilst many of the guys here recall the old clutch and brake band system with fondness, I don't miss adjusting pedals, levers, linkages and bands and also replacing brake bands at short intervals... such as sub 5,000 hrs at times on older Cats :(

Ross

06-27-2007, 11:22 AM

:confused: Yeah. The Motor slows one track and speeds the other up :confused:

But its still tricky to work out the systermatics of it.

By the looks of the system there should be another DS unit on the other side.

Only thing i can think of is: Power is divided by the Bevel(pinion) gear. The diffsteer unit changes the speed of the left hand output there by altering the righthand unit to compensate for the speed up or slowing down of the left hand drive? Anybody shed some light on this?

Ross

Opie

07-28-2007, 06:12 PM

i love seeing the new iron. i have seen a few pics of them before today. but here are the pics i have found.
i definately like the idea of a 5 spd tranny and the cab looks very comfortable.

3883

3884

3885

3886

3887

link (http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=37840&x=7)

What in the world is hanging off the back of that thing????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????:beatsm e

JimBruce42

07-29-2007, 08:52 AM

What in the world is hanging off the back of that thing????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????:beatsm e

Are you referring to the scarifier? It's a standard on the 6's with VPAT blades. A lot of our D6r's have them regardless. Hope that answered your question.

Opie

07-29-2007, 10:43 AM

Hi Jim, yeah i knew what they were, but the company that i work for bought a D6R III XW with the V-Pat blade they got the counter weights insted of the scarifiers, it is equiped with the Top Con GPS and ive been tryin to get them to get the scarifiers for it, man i hate when i have to cut out a .10 or even less and have to use the corner of the blade or the whole blade and end up takein more time to mess around like that:mad: PITA!!!, when i could just drop the scarifiers and scratch what i need and continue with my work this would speed things up for me but they dont seem to want to listen!
The corners get worn down way before the cutting edges do. i just dont understand why they wont get them:beatsme

Opie

07-29-2007, 10:47 AM

Nice video DLKMA. The other thing they are demonstrating is the ability to operate the implements when steering. There is very little reduction in track rotation speed so there must be separate pumps and plenty of horsepower for each circuit.

That kind of almost counter-rotation will wear the undercarriage out really quickly so I wouldn't be doing a lot of that if it were my dozer :)

Wish mine would steer like that T dose, and wish i had FTS insted of the ol' push and pull:D