Transporting tubo equipped machines

[CascadeScaper]

Hey guys. Just a quickie, what does everyone do for their excavators or any other equipment that they load with the exhaust stack facing toward the front (air catcher)? Should you leave the machine running? Or do you just throw something over the stack? Around here, I could probably get away with just leaving the machines running, most of our hauls are only 20-30 minutes at most, but we already discussed how long idle times aren't necessarily good for the tubo either.

EDIT: Steve, I just realized this should be in the transporting equipment sub thread, my bad!

[puredieselpower]

Hey guys. Just a quickie, what does everyone do for their excavators or any other equipment that they load with the exhaust stack facing toward the front (air catcher)? Should you leave the machine running? Or do you just throw something over the stack? Around here, I could probably get away with just leaving the machines running, most of our hauls are only 20-30 minutes at most, but we already discussed how long idle times aren't necessarily good for the tubo either.

Glad you asked, I was going to ask also. What happens when the machine is in reverse and air goes in the exhaust to the turbo? I put my bobcat on forward it has a cab anyhow. but seems easier to back on.

[tylermckee]

Just throw a coffee can or something similar over the top.

[dayexco]

5 min haul or less, we let em idle. otherwise we duct tape em

[JimBruce42]

Glad you asked, I was going to ask also. What happens when the machine is in reverse and air goes in the exhaust to the turbo? I put my bobcat on forward it has a cab anyhow. but seems easier to back on.


On shorter hauls it will probably be ok, but because of just the physics of what is going on, it's really possible to get the turbo to spin even if the exhaust is facing to the rear. A can or duct tape with of course solve the problems with wind spinning.

[Ford LT-9000]

You have nothing to worry about just put the excavator on the trailer so the counterweight is facing the truck and curl the boom in. As for leaving the machine run while in transport not a good idea if something ever happened and the DOT came to the conclusion the machine was running while traveling on the trailer. You would be in some serious poo also with the machine running something could possibly cause the machine to move.

The guys with 800,000 plus dollar equipment are not worried about the machines exhaust pipe facing the wind. Don't cover the exhaust with duct tape if that gets down into the pipe you will have a h*ll of a time getting it back out.

Your biggest concern is have the machine chained down properly so if you ever get stopped the DOT isn't going to nail you for improper tie down.

Also you should have a shovel and dig out the undercarriage if you have been working in mud. You put the machine on the trailer and start traveling down the freeway and a chunk of mud comes flying off and hits a car boy you will be in poo again. It most likely will hit the first cop car you pass :nono

[Cat420]

I believe the manual for our backhoe says that the turbo must be protected if the exhaust will be facing forward while trailered more than 45mph. At $1400 for a new one, it's not worth the risk for the minimal time it takes to cover it.

[itsgottobegreen]

Duck tape my friend. Duck tape and lots of it.

[Ford LT-9000]

I don't know what you guys are worried about like I said when Caterpillar ships brandnew 988 loaders here they don't cover the exhaust these machines travel good 150km (93 miles) on a lowbed to get here. In the 15 years I never seen anybody cover the exhaust.

[Dozerboy]

I have never and I have never seen an exhaust covered.

[digger242j]

I wondered about this myself, and I can't make sense of it.

Even if the opening of the exhaust is facing directly into the wind, how is that going to spin the turbo? The air has no place to flow to escape from the other end, unless it's going to run through the engine.

[Grader4me]

I wondered about this myself, and I can't make sense of it.

Even if the opening of the exhaust is facing directly into the wind, how is that going to spin the turbo? The air has no place to flow to escape from the other end, unless it's going to run through the engine.

My two cents...If the air goes into the exhaust and spins the turbo, it comes back out the intake as well. Anyone transporting equipment should refer to their operators manual as this should tell you about covering the exhaust while transporting.
Also by covering the exhaust you are keeping out the moisture and dirt. We use a can and a rubber tie down strap. As mentioned duct tape works as well, especially if there is a flap on the exhaust.
This is a standard practice with us.

[digger242j]

My two cents...If the air goes into the exhaust and spins the turbo, it comes back out the intake as well.

Yeah, but...the exhaust part of the turbo originates in the exhaust manifold. To flow through there, it'd have to flow throught the cylinders as well, before it came out the intake. (That would be beneficial--you'd get your air filter cleaned every time you hauled the machine. :wink2 )

BTW, I'll happily argue this stuff with you guys, but I won't agrue with the owner's manual.

[tylermckee]

I know the owners manual says to cover it, but we never do, maybe on a long haul we would. Most of our trips are less than 15 minutes and usually in town so 40mph or so

[Grader4me]

Yeah, but...the exhaust part of the turbo originates in the exhaust manifold. To flow through there, it'd have to flow throught the cylinders as well, before it came out the intake. (That would be beneficial--you'd get your air filter cleaned every time you hauled the machine. :wink2 )

BTW, I'll happily argue this stuff with you guys, but I won't agrue with the owner's manual.

Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I mean't that air going into the exhaust will spin the turbo and come back out the exhaust. Where else could it go?:confused:

[Squizzy246B]

The manual will often state to cover the exhaust because of the sulphur in the exhaust system and rain. When water is driven in the exhaust you can form H2SO4....thats one for you to look up Digger.

Whilst everyone is striving for low sulphur in fuel manufacture it is a real serious issue for medium and low speed diesels and diesel fired boilers. If you are worried about it get a duckbill fitted.

[Steve Frazier]

Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I mean't that air going into the exhaust will spin the turbo and come back out the exhaust. Where else could it go?:confused:
In theory the air would flow through the engine backwards as digger suggests. In order for the turbo to spin, air has to flow through it, not bounce off of it. The air would pass through the open valves (hmmmm....this would require both the exhaust and intake valves to be open simultaneously.....now I'm scratching my head) and out the air filter. This air flow would be required in order for the turbo to spin.

[Grader4me]

You got me to, but couldn't enough air bounce around in there just to get the turbo spinning? Would it actually have to flow on through as you suggest? I don't think the turbo would be spinning very fast. Food for thought:yup

[Dusty]

i would just fill up the stack with tennis balls to keep the wind out

[puredieselpower]

what harm is done if air does get in and spin the turbo?

[digger242j]

...H2SO4....thats one for you to look up Digger.


I'm not even going to look it up first--Sulfuric acid.

(Dammit. I have to look it up to check the spelling... :Banghead )

AHA! I was right, even on the spelling. :)

Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid

Actually, one of the first jobs I ever did was to dig for a concrete pad, about 80 feet in diameter, and 18" thick, that was to be the foundation for a tank to hold Oleum (H2 S2 O7), a concentrated form of Sulfuric Acid.

[digger242j]

i would just fill up the stack with tennis balls to keep the wind out

Now that would be fun--open the throttle all the way and turn the key... :)

[Dusty]

Now that would be fun--open the throttle all the way and turn the key... :)
SEE WE CAN HAVE FUN AT WORK:thumbsup

[Steve Frazier]

You got me to, but couldn't enough air bounce around in there just to get the turbo spinning? Would it actually have to flow on through as you suggest? I don't think the turbo would be spinning very fast. Food for thought:yup
More air would have to flow in one direction than the other in order for the turbo to rotate, equal amounts of air moving in opposite directions would cancel each other and there would be no rotation. There has to be a flow of air in one direction for turbo rotation.

[Steve Frazier]

what harm is done if air does get in and spin the turbo?
You risk damaging the turbo bearing. The turbo bearing is much like a miniature crank bearing and relies on oil pressure for survival. Without oil pressure the turbo shaft can contact the bearing and scuff it.

[CascadeScaper]

The intercoolers rely on fans to push air into them. You'd think a fan wouldn't push enough air through, but let's face it, these motors aren't high horsepower by any means. In that case, an intercooler on a 100 horspower machine relying on fan inducted charge air that is 3 times the size of an intercooler on a 300 horspower truck that relies on a much higher rate of charge air pretty much balances out. If you decrease your charge air intake rate, you increase your intercoooler surface area to compensate.

[tylermckee]

The intercoolers rely on fans to push air into them. You'd think a fan wouldn't push enough air through, but let's face it, these motors aren't high horsepower by any means. In that case, an intercooler on a 100 horspower machine relying on fan inducted charge air that is 3 times the size of an intercooler on a 300 horspower truck that relies on a much higher rate of charge air pretty much balances out. If you decrease your charge air intake rate, you increase your intercoooler surface area to compensate.
Disregard my last post i drank too much :Banghead

[CascadeScaper]

It was that bad of a day? Tomorrow night is my night!

[tylermckee]

It was that bad of a day? Tomorrow night is my night!
easy day actually, just sat in the machine loading trucks all day, hauled out about 600 ton of dirt from the basement dig i'm working on.

[RonG]

I have moved a lot of iron over the years,stuff that I run myself so I know its history and I have never lost a turbo in any equipment that I have run.
I do not cover the exhaust stack on any of it and some of my moves were 100+ miles at speed limits+.
I have lost the turbo on a truck a couple of times but never on any equipment.
I would like to think that the extra time that I have disciplined myself to take idling the equipment 3 minutes before shutdown has something to do with it but unfortunately other "operators" working for the same company running the same equipment do not do the cooldown thing and they don't seem to be losing blowers either so maybe I am wasting my time????
How many times have we run out of fuel while doing a heavy push with a dozer and heard the engine snapping and clicking with the thermal contraction that happens under those conditions and we pray that nothing fails from the abuse?
I have tried to conceive of a scenario where both the intake and exhaust valves would both be open at the same time and while there is some overlap designed into some engines I am not sure that there would be a large enough volume of air to spin the turbo from the small area that the overlap would provide.
I think current practice for turbos these days is a check valve in the oil supply line to maintain a small reservoir of lubrication to the turbo bearings while the engine is shut down to help prevent any damage on spoolup and help protect us from ourselves.:) Ron G

[atgreene]

I'm not sure how to respond to this thread, or even if I should?

I've never heard of this issue on any equipment, air can't move if it can't go anywhere.:confused:

[Grader4me]

A lot of very interesting comments on the turbo. I guess when you look at this realistically, it doesn't seem possible that the turbo can spin when the air blows into the exhaust when transporting.
In some owners manuals it tells you to cover the exhaust because of this. So I guess it comes down to past practice and individual choice. We choose to cover the exhaust when transporting the equipment. Are we right? who knows:confused: but one thing we know for sure...the turbo won't be spinning :wink2

[puredieselpower]

i had to refer to my owners manual on another issue today and i read the how to trailer section. it recomends backing the bobcat on and says nothing about covering the exhaust pipe.

[Iron Horse]

Just found this hundred year old thread . I have allways covered the exhaust on trucks and machinery when ive been carting them . It's not really possible for the impellar to spin but the buffeting air will cause it to rock back and forth . With no oil pressure to keep the shaft off the bearings it can mark both items . It's the same with driveline bearings on machinery that are floated a lot . Upon inspection you will see lines worn in the cups where the rollers have been rocking back and forth ever so slightly .

[greywynd]

Necessary or not, we'll stuff an empty coffee cup or plastic water bottle into the stack, and it pops out when you fire the machine back up. Of course, it will only work if the exhaust and cup/bottle are close enough in size!

[excavator]

I've always understood that the turbo can spin if the exhaust is not capped.And if the turbo is turning, even at low speeds, without oil pressure the bearings don't like it. I actually had a Hitachi log loader hauled from east of the mountains and they did not cap the exhaust. Seemed to run fine when it was loaded. Started it up when it got here and covered my service truck with oil out the exhaust. Pulled the air tube off the turbo and the bearings were out. Put another turbo on and everything was fine after all the oil burned out of the muffler. It's possible that the turbo was just going out before it was loaded but a coffee can with a couple bungee cords seems like cheap insurance.

[Orchard Ex]

Does everybody in the windy parts of the country park 'em with the stack downwind too? :stirthepot

[sparky]

I've never read anything in an owners manual regarding if you should cover the exhaust or not. But what I do know is that the guy who signs my paycheck once told me if I'am moving a machine of his and the stack is facing backwards that he wants it capped.

[45LMSWM]

I work for a Caterpillar dealer in NJ. All new machines delivered by Keen Transport and their subcontractors are supposed to have the exhaust stacks taped off or we are not supposed to accept delivery of the machines. In the 13 years I have been there, I cannot recall a single instance where they did not tape off the stack. I was always told this was to keep the turbo from spinning with no oil pressure.

However, I was the one of the dealer's lowboy drivers for 4 years, and I was never required to tape off the stacks, and I only did so in severe weather or when delivering to very picky customers.

I can tell you this, I have moved many 3508 engines w/twin turbos on my trailer, and I would only tape off the turbos on engines going back to the customers. The old engines going in for rebuild...I would leave them wide open. And they do not spin. Never had one spin yet. You look right down the center of the turbos in your mirrors and at 65+ mph, they do not spin.

Just my 2 cents.

John

[CAT D9H]

I have always been told to tape them , I have also heard it both ways, tape em dont tape em , all I know is that we have had to take afew Cat machines to the dealer for work and the dealers around here will not let you unload them let alone work on them if the exaust is not taped ,

best bet, weather the turbo will or wont spin I cant say , take the time to tape it , better safe then sorry

[RocksnRoses]

I was always under the impression that the exhaust pipe should be taped if facing in to the wind, when the machine is being transported. After reading some of the posts I am now wondering if the turbo can spin, but whether it does or not, taping is cheap insurance.

Rn'R.

[Boophoenix]

something not mentioned in this debate yet. what about debris say a small stone from the road or a twig get hung in there as it spools up? Odds of this happenig are slim, but the cost could be high. This would not be very good for the turbo. Personally I've never covered the exaust, but this brings new thoughts into the situation.

[imbzcul8r]

We cover all exhausts facing ahead. It's not worth giving a customer anything to bitch about. We use the tapered plastic cones that blasters use to plug blastholes.

[Iron Horse]

I loaded a machine onto my 8 wheeler tilt tray (roll back) for a new customer once . I climbed up and covered the exhaust with a vinyl bag with straps i had made . The customer seen what i was doing and said "you sir will be carting all my gear from now on " A little bit of care goes a long way .

[LowBoy]

Does everybody in the windy parts of the country park 'em with the stack downwind too? :stirthepot


Here's a good point if I ever heard one.:pointlaugh

I do know that the Caterpillar dealership I hauled for was adiment about covering turbos while in transit. They claimed they had multiple failures due to this, and if you pulled into the yard with a piece on without a TurboSaver, they wrote it up.
They were especially stern about skidsteers.

I took my habits with me to the next job I got with a contractor, and when he saw me covering his exhaust on his stuff, I thought he was going to shed a tear of joy. A little goes a long way like Iron Horse said.

It always made me chuckle when the stack was facing backwards and they still got all worked up over it.

[qkoop]

They should be covered in any direction or in 60 mile an hour winds, i have had turbo falure happen twice after know it all lowbedders didnt cover it for extended trips.The impeller spins one way and then the other constanly because the presurre goes in then out.Air after the charge side of the compressor will compress slightly from wind presurre and there is movement in the shaft.Have you ever rolled your car window down and felt wind shutter with one wndow open.It is the same princapal.There is a reason why the big equipment companys want the exhaust covered,because it is a proven fact it is hard on turbos.

[AtlasRob]

I can honestly say I have never covered an exhaust or heard mention of it until a couple of weeks ago while talking to a guy who had unloaded 2 new Komatsu dozers over several months and both had thier stacks covered.
I have never noticed an exhaust covered during transport either, and I now make a point of looking whenever a lowloader goes by.:drinkup

[BCB]

we have hauled our s185 bobcat for several years with no signs of turbo damage

[LowBoy]

Not to be biased either way, but in the "old days", a lot of "know it all lowbedders" moved a serious amount of equipment around without the exhaust covered, before a "Turbo Saver" was even invented, and we never heard of a single failure. I'd hazard to say in a lot of cases these failures are due to overanxious operators wanting to go to coffee break or get home quickly, so they're shutting them down hot in my opinion. Either that or firing them up first thing in the morning at 2100 rpm's doesn't exactly prolong a component's lifespan either. I was taught as a pre-teenager by a big, mean older brother that whenever I started a diesel (or anything,) up cold in the morning, I'd better be letting that thing wake up on it's own without any throttle, or I'd be getting an $$$ kicking. It was something that I always remembered and practiced faithfully since. I shake my head when I see these guys fire something up at full throttle when it's 20 degrees out.

[Lashlander]

Yep, I, like Lowboy have left a trail of destroyed Turbos all over the Western United States. The only time I ever covered them was when they faced forward. That was only because of rain or snow going down the stack.
The only Turbo I've seen get replaced was on my old beloved 235. It started leaking antifreeze at around 11,000 hours. Now I realize I should have covered the stack when I hauled it to the job three months earlier!

[Dualie]

Um I can honestly say 100% that I have never covered a stack on turbo anything. ever. Lowbedding since birth damn near a million miles under my belt and never had a turbo failure that could be attributed to that.

to spin a turbo you to move volumes of air on both sides of the turbo. that means it has to go in the exhaust and out the air cleaners. period. Never seen an engine that would let that happen that still needed a functioning turbo

Even if the turbo was to free spin most all properly designed turbo's have a small well of oil that will still remain when the engine is shut off. while not enough to lubricate it at full throttle its more than enough to cushion it during transport.

I just don't by the covering your stacks business. but did have one joker operator that we used to play pranks on each other. I got back at him a while back by running the engine up to temp, shutting it down. then quickly sprayed some cold water into the exhaust stack.

when he went to fire up the unit in the morning he got a nice little shower of carbon everywhere. He promptly called me at 4:30 Am to let me know that I won and that I was #1

but to the original question, if covering the stack gives you a warm fuzzy feeling then by all means do it. If the customer requests that i cover it i will. that's where my stack covering starts and ends though.

[Iron Horse]

The damage will not be seen when the machine is unloaded off of the float , it's the microscopic damage that causes a Turbo not last it's intended lifespan . It may take years off it , when it fails will anyone even remember the time it was floated without the stack covered , or will they just put it down to wear , hot shutdowns , operator error , poor oil qaulity etc ?

[Dualie]

How is the air flowing? air has to FLOW in order for the turbo to spin. No intake and exhaust valves would have to be open in the same cylinder at the same time for that to happen.

simple test take your air cleaner piping so you can see the intake side of the turbo. Then take 120 PSI of shop air free flowing out of a half inch air hose and shove it down the stack. Note the amount of movement in the turbo impeller.

[LowBoy]

Yep, I, like Lowboy have left a trail of destroyed Turbos all over the Western United States. The only time I ever covered them was when they faced forward. That was only because of rain or snow going down the stack.
The only Turbo I've seen get replaced was on my old beloved 235. It started leaking antifreeze at around 11,000 hours. Now I realize I should have covered the stack when I hauled it to the job three months earlier!

See how you are Lashlander??!! You should get your butt kicked for that premature failure of that 235...:cussing

That thing was just getting broke in....whatsdamatta with you?:D

[Orchard Ex]

It may take years off it , when it fails will anyone even remember the time it was floated without the stack covered , or will they just put it down to wear , hot shutdowns , operator error , poor oil qaulity etc ?
So how do you separate out the wear created by hauling w/o a covered stack from all the other causes and positively assign blame for a failure?

[Dert-T]

Nice pic Iron Horse, do you have any other shots of that rig ? Love to see those good looking lowboys !!
If I've actually done this right, here's a pic of a 345BL with a covered stack from the other day.

[Haul-Pak]

I've had this argument with many a wise guy apprentice. (Know it all ... But Know FLAP all!!!)

I only cover the stacks to keep water and snow out.

This is just an old wives tale they tell apprentices.

Valve overlap: Does happen but only on 1 pot per 4. Not enough to turn a big burly Turbo Charger. On CAT machine's the air would flow around the Dust ejector as this is the route of least resistance!.

[Iron Horse]

As i and qkoop said earlier , i don't believe the impellar can spin . But the buffeting air can make the impellar rock back and forth , up and down and possibly in and out with the end float the shaft has .

Dert-T , no , i only had that pic when i was looking at ideas to build a float to cart my own excavator . The driver that covered that stack in my photo has got a job with me anytime he wants one . That's the sort of guy you could trust not to loose your contract carting Caterpillars equipment for them by being to lazy to spend 1 minute covering the chimney , as Cat demands that it is done . And you are obviously the same quaility professional operator that takes care of someone elses gear . You will be supprised how many people take notice of that bucket over the chimney and write the phone number down off your door .

Orchard EX , by allways covering the chimney , if the Turbo does fail one day , that will be one possibility you can count out 100% .

[Orchard Ex]

As i and qkoop said earlier , i don't believe the impellar can spin . But the buffeting air can make the impellar rock back and forth , up and down and possibly in and out with the end float the shaft has .

Dert-T , no , i only had that pic when i was looking at ideas to build a float to cart my own excavator . The driver that covered that stack in my photo has got a job with me anytime he wants one . That's the sort of guy you could trust not to loose your contract carting Caterpillars equipment for them by being to lazy to spend 1 minute covering the chimney , as Cat demands that it is done . And you are obviously the same quaility professional operator that takes care of someone elses gear . You will be supprised how many people take notice of that bucket over the chimney and write the phone number down off your door .

Orchard EX , by allways covering the chimney , if the Turbo does fail one day , that will be one possibility you can count out 100% .

If you want to cover the stack, more power to you, It's your $$ on the line.

But, if a (relatively) stationary impeller is so fragile as to be damaged by a little rocking (or moving up and down, end to end) while on the trailer, how does it make it through a day of spinning at xx thousand RPM with all the shock and vibration of digging/hammering/walking on rock etc.? Like Dualie said, theres still enough oil on it to get through startup, so it's not dry.

I don't agree that someone who doesn't believe the urban legend of the turbo is lazy or unprofessional. And I'd like to hear from someone at Cat (corporate not just a dealer) that demands that the stacks are covered to save the turbo. (Gmads, Tigerrotor?)

Until then I'll take Dads advice: "Son, never argue with a true believer"
This was an interesting exchange/debate until the "lazy" and "unprofessional" insinuations.
:deadhorse (didn't this horse get beaten a year or so ago?)

[LowBoy]

Not to keep :stirthepot...but I agree with Orchard Ex in calling this issue an "urban legend". However, I was always a good boy and indeed took the time to climb up and cover each and every chimney, no matter how high, awkward a climb, or senseless it seemed to me. It was a cheap insurance policy.

If this is such a controversal topic, we need to call Adam and Jamie and get the Mythbusters on this right away. (Besides, I LIKE Kari...She makes me feel funny.:naughty)

[Iron Horse]

But, if a (relatively) stationary impeller is so fragile as to be damaged by a little rocking (or moving up and down, end to end) while on the trailer, how does it make it through a day of spinning at xx thousand RPM with all the shock and vibration of digging/hammering/walking on rock etc.?

The shaft is susspended by the pressurised oil , it can never touch the bearings just like a con rod bearing cannot touch the journal even with the shock loading the piston induces upon it .

I don't agree that someone who doesn't believe the urban legend of the turbo is lazy or unprofessional.

I didn't say that , but a person that does cover the stack is , in my opinion very professional and caring and will be the guy coming back next time theres a shift to be done .

On edit , just a question i need answered . As no one seems to be 100% certain in their own mind if this does occur . What WOULD the reason be to NOT cover the stack ?

And if my machine had an unexpected Turbo failure after it was hauled with the stack uncovered , the driver would either be getting his chequebook out or getting his suit dry cleaned . The judge would be shown by my barister that it is standard practice with big firms and would order the damages paid . That's only a little guy like me , i wonder what would happen when a multi national mining company has a few Turbos from 200 ton dump trucks go down after cartage , with all the documented oil analysis testing , strict servicing and all the machines fitted with Turbo timers ?$$$$$$$$$$

[Nac]

Kari[/B]...She makes me feel funny.:naughty)

I 2nd:thumbsup that.:thumbsup:thumbsup

[qkoop]

If you want to cover the stack, more power to you, It's your $$ on the line.

But, if a (relatively) stationary impeller is so fragile as to be damaged by a little rocking (or moving up and down, end to end) while on the trailer, how does it make it through a day of spinning at xx thousand RPM with all the shock and vibration of digging/hammering/walking on rock etc.? Like Dualie said, theres still enough oil on it to get through startup, so it's not dry.

I don't agree that someone who doesn't believe the urban legend of the turbo is lazy or unprofessional. And I'd like to hear from someone at Cat (corporate not just a dealer) that demands that the stacks are covered to save the turbo. (Gmads, Tigerrotor?)

Until then I'll take Dads advice: "Son, never argue with a true believer"
This was an interesting exchange/debate until the "lazy" and "unprofessional" insinuations.
:deadhorse (didn't this horse get beaten a year or so ago?)

A "LAZY TRUCK DRIVER" ! I thought that was just another urban myth.:D:D:D

[Squizzy246B]

The manual will often state to cover the exhaust because of the sulphur in the exhaust system and rain. When water is driven in the exhaust you can form H2SO4....thats one for you to look up Digger.

Whilst everyone is striving for low sulphur in fuel manufacture it is a real serious issue for medium and low speed diesels and diesel fired boilers. If you are worried about it get a duckbill fitted.

While the debate may or may not continue I think for longer term storage or transport, after which the machine is not going to be run, preventing moisture entering the exhaust system is well worthwhile. If you want to do a test then get an old piece of exhaust system/manifold that has a good carbon build up and expose it to the some water...then give it a couple of days and see what happens. Cast iron will survive but exposed steel of the non stainless type will corroded...aggressively.

[AtlasRob]

The shaft is susspended by the pressurised oil , it can never touch the bearings just like a con rod bearing cannot touch the journal even with the shock loading the piston induces upon it .

I don't agree that someone who doesn't believe the urban legend of the turbo is lazy or unprofessional.

I didn't say that , but a person that does cover the stack is , in my opinion very professional and caring and will be the guy coming back next time theres a shift to be done .

On edit , just a question i need answered . As no one seems to be 100% certain in their own mind if this does occur . What WOULD the reason be to NOT cover the stack ?


Bone idle laziness :D A very intresting thread and having spent 18mths hauling all sorts of exc, dozers, dumptrucks etc for my employer of the time and his numerous customers I never once heard mention of covering the stack :beatsme

While the debate may or may not continue I think for longer term storage or transport, after which the machine is not going to be run, preventing moisture entering the exhaust system is well worthwhile. If you want to do a test then get an old piece of exhaust system/manifold that has a good carbon build up and expose it to the some water...then give it a couple of days and see what happens. Cast iron will survive but exposed steel of the non stainless type will corroded...aggressively.

Squizzy ? did you push it off the lowboy upon arrival :D

[busdrivernine]

Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I mean't that air going into the exhaust will spin the turbo and come back out the exhaust. Where else could it go?QUOTE //////

the air is not the problem it is the turbop spinning without oil pressure to lube the turbo thus spinning dry after a bit . sure not good on the turbo .

[06bowtie_guy]

When floating the PC200 the stack is facing forward, the best thing is a cone they use to place in the drill holes for blasting, fits perfect!!

[Eric]

we ALWAYS stuff a rag tightly into the stack. If air is going in and making the turbo spin without the engine running, no oil is being pumped to the turbo. That's what will cause premature failure of the turbo.

[d6peg]

I use a car inner-tube that is wired shut on one end. I always cover the stack if the machine is equipped with a turbo.

[95zIV]

What I want to know, is when you see all of these trucks straight from the factory in stacks of 3 or 4 being towed down the road, or how about the audiis and mercedes and other cars and trucks that get towed or hauled hundreds or even thousands of miles without their exhausts covered? How do they do it? And can any of the advocates for covering them get a manual and scan where it says to cover them?

[scholzee]

Ever see jet aircraft that are not being used ? engines always have covers on them. A jet engine is kind of like a gaint turbo, they do not want the fans being spun by a breeze when engine is not in use, mainly because the bearings are not pressurized by oil when not running. I think you would want to protect a turbo in the same manner.

[Squizzy246B]

Scholzee; The covers on Gas Turbines are to prevent FOD (Foriegn Object Damage), that is, to prevent foriegn matter from entering the turbine. They are also fitted where heaters or de-humidifiers are to be used. A shaft brake is fitted to lock the turbine when required.

[95zIV]

Ever see jet aircraft that are not being used ? engines always have covers on them. A jet engine is kind of like a gaint turbo, they do not want the fans being spun by a breeze when engine is not in use, mainly because the bearings are not pressurized by oil when not running. I think you would want to protect a turbo in the same manner.

Jet engines are also open on both ends so air can flow through with no problems, hence movement if there is no lock. Engine turbos are in truth only open on the exhaust side so air cannot flow freely through. even with valve overlap where you will get both the intake and exhaust valves open there is not enough flow to turn a turbo at high enough speeds to do damage. The bounce and shake that people are talking about is going to happen whether or not the stack is covered.

:my2c

[OneWelder]

What happens when you hit a bump ? if the motor is not running - no oil presure
When I was first told about this - It was by the Int. dealer,and he said it only mattered on a few engines , but recommended all be covered. He also thought I should buy their set of assorted covers.
I have felt the same as Lowboy - for the couple of minutes it takes to seal - not worth the risk.
At our local air port even the piper cubs have the engines blocked off to keep birds out

[Eric]

Better safe than sorry. Like it was stated, it takes a couple seconds to prep it for travel, so why risk it!?!

[Lashlander]

I think maybe I'll start taking the Turbos off and let them ride in the passengers seat. Maybe reach over and pet it now and then.

[Orchard Ex]

I think maybe I'll start taking the Turbos off and let them ride in the passengers seat. Maybe reach over and pet it now and then.

Lash, You better put 'em in your lunch cooler, you wouldn't want the heater fan to blow on 'em and destroy it. :D

[Dualie]

or tape all openings up. god forbid you roll down the window and over speed the turbo and induce a massive internal failure. I have seen blown turbo's put holes in truck hoods.

:rolleyes:

[Lashlander]

Your both right. Never thought of that. Maybe I'll send it UPS to the next job and just meet it there!

[Grader4me]

:eek: You guy's are nuts..lol. Lots of differing opinions on this one. Pet them?? lol... priceless..:drinkup Cover the darn things and let's move on...:D

[KSSS]

5 min haul or less, we let em idle. otherwise we duct tape em


dayexco:

May I also add to your signature:

Call
Another
Tech.

[Eric]

Gee, y'all r sum smart fellers!! I guess you don't want to if ya don't have to, and with all the extra effort involved I can't say I blame you, exhausting work putting a rag in a exhaust pipe!:drinkup

[95zIV]

Gee, y'all r sum smart fellers!! I guess you don't want to if ya don't have to, and with all the extra effort involved I can't say I blame you, exhausting work putting a rag in a exhaust pipe!:drinkup

Try doing it with a layer of ice or sleet on top of the machine, my body is worth more then any part on a machine. There's a simple cure to this, cover it if you believe its something that needs to be done, or don't if you don't think so.

[OneWelder]

Forgot to mention on my own I have a flapper = headed so wind doesn't blow up

[LowBoy]

Soooo, to conclude our little debate, the next time one of us goes to haul a turbo'd engine, just ask yourself this simple little question..."To cover, or not to cover"...is it worth the risk?

Pull into the Cat dealer you're moving the piece for WITHOUT a cover on the stack, and express you opinion that it was too dangerous to climb up there due to the layer of ice or snow, and chances are...you'll probably be waiting for the phone to ring for the next move for Cat...

I detested climbing up there myself, but it was easier to do that than to have to argue with some waterhead at the Cat dealer.

[Lashlander]

Ya, but........Does Cat want them covered to keep the elements out or because the Turbo spins wildly out of control.
It doesn't really matter to me because I'll inform the Cat dealer the UPS man will deliver the turbo the next business day. Now where did I put that tracking number!:drinkup

[OneWelder]

Will it still work with all that popcorn stuff in it ?

[LowBoy]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Cat thinks the turbos are spinning profusely out of control, of course...:D

I think I'll try that trick next time I move another Cat to a dealer Lashlander, especially to the knuckleheads I dealt with way too often in NY state. I'll hand them an old turbo core I have hanging around in a box full of "polish peanuts"...and ask them if that'll cover the law...:falldownlaugh:notworthy

[Dualie]

I did a move for the local cat dealer today one of their rental units. Never said word one about covering the stack. In fact the 4 trucks that were there before me didn't cover the stacks either.

[AtlasRob]

I did a move for the local cat dealer today one of their rental units. Never said word one about covering the stack. In fact the 4 trucks that were there before me didn't cover the stacks either.

From what I have witnessed over the past month or so I think I can safely say that none of C@t, Komatsu, Terex or any of the UK hauliers have a policy of covering the stacks.
The only thing that seems to have a flap are the screeners and crushers that have gone by. :beatsme

[RollOver Pete]

Just to be on the safe side....
Turbos ride shotgun.
:cool:

[Orchard Ex]

Just to be on the safe side....
Turbos ride shotgun.
:cool:

:eek:No Seatbelt! Please tell me that it weighs enough to turn the airbag on...:jawdrop

:D

[BCB]

hahahaha nice shift knob, how do you like the exhaust brake?

[Lashlander]

:eek:No Seatbelt! Please tell me that it weighs enough to turn the airbag on...:jawdrop

:D

Yup, just wait til the Turbo Cops see this one!

[RollOver Pete]

hahahaha nice shift knob, how do you like the exhaust brake?

If you tow heavy, an exhaust brake is a must have.
I wouldn't have a truck without one.
The shift knob is something I had sitting in my parts trailer.
I've plumbed into it to adjust my air bags.
:cool:

[Eric]

Love that old shift knob. Very cool set up.

[BCB]

If you tow heavy, an exhaust brake is a must have.
I wouldn't have a truck without one.
The shift knob is something I had sitting in my parts trailer.
I've plumbed into it to adjust my air bags.
:cool:

haha very cool. good idea with the air bags. I had an exhaust brake on my truck (97 12v cummins) but i put twins on it a couple weeks ago and don't have the $$$ for a 5 inch, man i miss it.

[celticcrusader]

you

[celticcrusader]

you don't have to seal exh. pipe unless you are going under water!! air going in won't hurt it.

[440chevy]

I've never covered the exhaust and I do drive at highway speeds, and we've never even had a turbo fail us once.