Owner finance gone bad! read before you offer it.

[powerjoke]

Well, about 6-7 weeks ago I sold a machine to another owner/operator excavation company and he asked if i would consider owner financing it to him, I have done it in the past so I wasnt too concerned, he is a little smaller than I am so I understand money could be hard to get right now,.....

well, after the test run of almost an hour he decided to buy the machine, and he had a lowboy that could pick it up in an hour or so as he was coming back empty, i told him to give me a check for the total amount and then when we got legal doc's drawn up he would send up the down payment check with the signed doc's.and he did but there was a note that i needed to hold it for 4-5 day's

that was 6 weeks ago, i felt bad for him and he seemed like a nice guy so i never deposited because it was always just one more day or just a couple of day's, well. i finally took it in and it came back :eek::rolleyes: lol, but the best part is.............it was a closed acct!

so i have done some calling to other dirtworker's in the area and they all consider him an outlaw......his G-pa started the dirt company Forever ago, but i guess the grandson is flushing 'er away.

i gave him an ultimatum, give me a check off a valid acct wether it have suficiant funds or not, i will hold it for 7 day's and then take it in. if it dosent go through i prosicute, here's the deal....it has crossed state lines so now the FBI is going to be involved, he sent the fake check through the mail so now could face postal charges. and then after all that he still has to deal with the state check charges, probably in both states.

I offered him one last chance, he has to bring me something he dosent owe money on that is a greatervalue than the amount he is behind. and then when he catches up he can have his colateral back.

conclusion, he wrote a bad check for a down payment and then he NEVER has made the first payment!

what would you all do?


EDIT: I should add that he hasnt returned a TXT or a call despite leaving several voicemail's including the one about the final offer.
Also, every one I talk to in thier town say's that he has a bad habbit about writing bad checks. and so does his father.






Pj

[Hendrik]

Try and get your machine back before it is too late, if he is close to going to the wall the creditors may well see the machine as belonging to him, even though he has not paid a cent for it. He may well even have borrowed against said machine already.
You did the right thing by him and he is using you. Unfortunately people like that prey on those who try and help others.
Vendor finance is a tricky thing (especially 100%), it may get you a better price and/or move that machine when things are slow but it does have it's pitfalls. Question is why could he not get money from elsewhere, given the interest rate at the moment, money is cheap.

[xcavator120]

Looking at this from a criminal intent aspect, (comes from my 24 yrs as a cop) when he gave you a check from a closed account, it shows that he had no intentions of paying for the machine. He had to know that the account was closed. Simply put, this is just another "clever" way of theft, ie; "theft by deception". The difficult part in showing criminal intent, is the oral contract, which is more of a civil tort. He breached this oral contract, so you may have to pursue this in a law suit. I would however push the "deceptive" act of giving you the closed account check. One thing that you could have done to better protect yourself, is to pick up the phone and call that bank, before you let him haul off your machine. The bank would have been able to tell you right then if the account is open or closed. I'll bet that if you told him that you were going to call the bank after he handed you the check, he would have become very, very nervous, tried to talk you out of calling them, or even tried to take the check back from you.

You've been hoodwinked by someone that makes it point to seek out those that are sympathetic, and pray on them. They like nice guys like you, because they tend to keep granting them more time to produce the money. The sad thing is that they make it bad for those true and honest ones..

Don't feel sorry for guys like this. For all you know his whole story was fiction, just to get you in to that empathy mode, thus relaxing any anxiety to provide the financing.

If you have proper documentation that you own the machine, you could do a reposition (just go take it back), and should not have to worry about a bank latching on to it thinking it was his. While a bank may do this, when you produce the documents showing that it was wrongfully taken by him, they have no choice but to release it to you. The bank may try to force you to pay any impound fees, but those are the "thief's" responsibility, not yours.

Finally if you get your machine back, then you can decide if you want to pursue it further with lawsuits or possible criminal charges, or just be glad that you got it back, and learned a valuable lesson on financing..

[powerjoke]

Good advice X.

I dont do anythig that is not on paper, and I had my attorney draw up the note's papers and he also filed a ucc1 ;). but......I would rather have the $50k than the machine lol, and I suppose that's why I give him time and time again.

I'm calling the attorney today

Pj

[Colorado Digger]

go get you're tractor back before it disapears
sorry but that is my opinion.

[John C.]

Call the FBI right away and go get your machine back.

It might already be too late. Because there is no real paper trails for machinery he might have resold the machine and skipped town.

Live and learn.

[kthompson]

Don't be shocked it he does not have it. Could be sold or he has reported it stolen or anything. I would get my hands on it ASAP as allowed by the law. Call those repo guys on TV! :rolleyes:

[DigDug]

I'd be doing a repo on your machine even though you dont want it. Good luck

[powerjoke]

UPDATE:.....

I was on my way to the job to dis-able the machine (take the axles home with me ;) ) and he called and put up a 963 as colateral on the owed amount, like a moron I am going to give him the chance one last time ( I keep saying that lol)

is there any one on here near witchita falls TX?

But I understand what you all are saying with him possibly selling the machine or borrowing against it, but with a UCC filing on the machine he cant do anything of the such.

I am going to give him till tuesday to deliver the paper's on the 963 colateral or all hell is going to break loose on him that is for sure, Times are hard enough without someone taking $50k out of my pocket

Pj

[Cretebaby]

UPDATE:.....

I was on my way to the job to dis-able the machine (take the axles home with me ;) ) and he called and put up a 963 as colateral on the owed amount, like a moron I am going to give him the chance one last time ( I keep saying that lol)

is there any one on here near witchita falls TX?

But I understand what you all are saying with him possibly selling the machine or borrowing against it, but with a UCC filing on the machine he cant do anything of the such.

I am going to give him till tuesday to deliver the paper's on the 963 colateral or all hell is going to break loose on him that is for sure, Times are hard enough without someone taking $50k out of my pocket

Pj

I am always in for a road trip, just say the word. :Cowboy

[kthompson]

powerjoke, I am talking behind a person who dealt with heavy equipment and lived in Charleston SC a major sea port. He told me a lot of stolen heavy equipment left out of there. Almost said how he knew then remember his family owned some docks...so guess he either saw it or knew of police investigations.

I worked for a major heavy equipment company about 25 years back and we had customers who had their machines painted certain colors. All might not have been but some were for the reason of theft.

May it prove the guy is as honest and deserving as you hope. May it work out great for both of you.

[powerjoke]

WOW, didnt even think about the overseas stuff :eek:

[LowBoy]

WOW, didnt even think about the overseas stuff :eek:


Call Dog the Bounty Hunter...then find a big, tall tree & a short piece of rope.
Times are way too tough for this kind of behavior.

[bruce oz]

hello powerjoke ,are you sure that he owns the 963 :beatsme,properly just gave you someone else's loader ,i would be getting your equipment back ,bruce oz

[conner33]

Oh man, sorry to hear this. I really hate reading stories like this because you were being such a nice guy and trying to help him out. I bet the guy doesn't give a **** that you were helping him out too.

[RTSmith]

Was in a similar situation a few years ago. If I were in it again, I'd give up the sale in a hurry and grab my machine as soon as I could. If you do that, I don't think you can prosecute. But that prosecution thing takes a long time, and sometimes doesn't bear much $$ fruit. Pick what you can, as soon as you can and get the machine. My .02$

[Julie Cain]

Good luck, I hope you are able to collect.

[powerjoke]

O.K., update as of today.

I spent 10 hours tracking my machine down, and when i found evidence of where it had been (the broken exhaust pipe/manifold laying by a tree) and tracks where it had been roaded about 18miles down asphalt :eek:. so i finally found the damn thing (we wont go into how i found it :rolleyes: ) and it was working on a jobsite, I pulled in and jerked the operator out of it, had a few hot words with the foreman (the debtor) then i jumped in it and ran it down the road a mile or two till my lowboy could get there.....what a freaking day!

BTW: anyone wanna buy a TS-14B? i got one to resale lol

[Red Bank]

I am glad you got it back:drinkup

[nedly05]

O.K., update as of today.

I spent 10 hours tracking my machine down, and when i found evidence of where it had been (the broken exhaust pipe/manifold laying by a tree) and tracks where it had been roaded about 18miles down asphalt :eek:. so i finally found the damn thing (we wont go into how i found it :rolleyes: ) and it was working on a jobsite, I pulled in and jerked the operator out of it, had a few hot words with the foreman (the debtor) then i jumped in it and ran it down the road a mile or two till my lowboy could get there.....what a freaking day!

BTW: anyone wanna buy a TS-14B? i got one to resale lol

Ya I'd like to buy it, will you hold the note??:rolleyes:

[amunderdog]

Glad you got what's left of it back.
The legal system leaves a lot to be desired.
Just have keep living and learning.
:naughty
If you will deliver the machine; i will make needed repairs.
I will pay you when i can. Ok? :slomo

[kthompson]

I am sorry for your losses even with getting the machine back. You should ask an attorney if you have any legal recourse for the damages and use of the machine.

Sad that there are people who don't mind lying like this.

[Landworks]

I have a pretty good agreement going with the bank.... I do not loan money, and they don't move dirt! Simple as that :)

[Hardline]

18 miles on the asphalt???? How does the undercarrige look? JJ

[KSSS]

I have a pretty good agreement going with the bank.... I do not loan money, and they don't move dirt! Simple as that :)


I like that!

[swampdog]

It sounds like you won one! Consider yourself lucky that you got it back. He could have called the cops. They might have impounded the machine and waited a year or two to get to the bottom of the story. Sometimes its best to lick your wounds and move on.

[geneb]

I know how you feel. I just had to collect a kobelco sk210. The Guy made 2 payments on it and kept it for 6 months. I finally got tired of all the lies and sent a truck after it.

I have been screwed by everybody who had a hand in it. I can't sue because it would cost more than I would get.

[Monte1255]

back a few years I had a repo on a welding job that I had done, person contacted me for a job, welded on it for about three weeks, stuck money and materials into it only to have them disapear when it was delivery day/payday as arranged. gave them three months!! waited and called several times after 30 billing cycle. finally I went and just took it back, loaded it on the trailer and brought it home, After I had taken possesion again, I talked with local welding shop friend of mine/ he said I was lucky to not be sued because I didn't use due process. .....well At least the other person didn't forget what was really due I guess. Everything on paper after that!:Banghead:ban

[kthompson]

Monte, some of those laws vary a good bit from state to state. Might even vary with situation in same state. It probably would be good to talk with lawyer, small claims court or such to find out how best to protect yourself with lowest cost.

[Monte1255]

Agreed.......KT..... back then I had a lot of p*** and vineger and it seemed to me that if I knew I was in the right, well then I had all the rights, Right?
:) unfortunatly not all cases end as succesfully as this one did and I know that now, I got lucky and the statue of limitations is up on that particular case now so it is deemed over I guess. Now.every job comes with contract, every sale comes with bill of sale and outlined terms and all on paper and signed. life is too darn short to make enemies from misunderstandings or otherwise.

good fences make good neighbors!

[kthompson]

I agree totally. If you can not put it in writing you don't have an understanding. It can work to save both sides and to be sure all are in agreement.

[amtronic]

Make sure your attorney follows up with any necessary paperwork invalidating the original deal, so you are not pulled into any bankruptcy of his claiming it as an asset.

[Arabhacks]

Hello.

First, why did you go after the operator?
The foreman was in charge, and who knows who did the damage.
I have been in just such a position.
The foreman could not operate worth a damn so I was given seat time.
The real owner comes along and I get pulled off the machine.
And, I was never paid.
The really bad part was that the guy running the company was a Bexar county reserve deputy. :confused:
Cops do not go after cops.