Rayco track wear.

[Tones]

I have a Rayco C140 with some track wear issues mainly with the idler.It has worn out the bush which damaged the seal and leaked the oil out.The machine has 1400hrs on it and the outside of the idler is about 30% worn. I have rung Rayco in the US and all they could come up with was the same old bullsh^t (blame the operator,running the tracks to tight etc) Another outfit here has had the same problem on there 2 140s but at 600& 700hrs.
Question. Has anyone else had this problem and what modification was made to stop this failer?? You can PM the details if you wish.:Banghead
Cheers Tones

[Willis Bushogin]

I have a Rayco C140 with some track wear issues mainly with the idler.It has worn out the bush which damaged the seal and leaked the oil out.The machine has 1400hrs on it and the outside of the idler is about 30% worn. I have rung Rayco in the US and all they could come up with was the same old bullsh^t (blame the operator,running the tracks to tight etc) Another outfit here has had the same problem on there 2 140s but at 600& 700hrs.
Question. Has anyone else had this problem and what modification was made to stop this failer?? You can PM the details if you wish.:Banghead
Cheers Tones
I have no good things to say about Rayco/Fecon. They totally ripped me off on my machine and they or Duetz, would not do anything about it. Totally BS company. This doesnt answer your question, I dont think its a operator thing, these machines get rough treatment, if you baby them, the production will be down. My idler went out, I called Fecon dealer, they didnt have one, but it would be like $1200. I got to calling around and found out they were going to buy it at a Wilson Parts and Equipment (in NC) the guy at Wilson, said the Fecon dealer had called him that morning about the part. My price from Wilson Parts $750. This is a bunch of profit for the Fecon dealer.
Call Doug @ Wilson Parts 800-331-6952
He has a bunch of knowledge about this sort of thing
How is the wear inside the area, where the idler goes in, if this is worn bad, its like a truck front end, being out of alignment. With the track removed, can you shake the idler? Where is the movement coming from? I have had to install wear plates in this area (on excavators) With the track off, see if you can figure out how to put a straight edge (piece of metal) from the sprocket, across rollers and see how it lines up, this will tell you if something is way out, possible top roller out of wack/bent and putting pressure on that side of the idler.
Last thought, it may be a PITB, but if you see the outside of the idler wearing, can you turn it over, so that is on the inside? Or change it with the other side. I forgot how they mounted.
I have built up idlers on excavators, by welding them, its just a cheap way, to get a few more hours, if you are in a pinch
Good Luck and I think you are going to need it. Im thinking the housing is worn, causing the idler to be out of alignment
Just my 2 cents worth
Lots of good info here.

[jamesn]

I have a Rayco C140 with some track wear issues mainly with the idler.It has worn out the bush which damaged the seal and leaked the oil out.The machine has 1400hrs on it and the outside of the idler is about 30% worn. I have rung Rayco in the US and all they could come up with was the same old bullsh^t (blame the operator,running the tracks to tight etc) Another outfit here has had the same problem on there 2 140s but at 600& 700hrs.
Question. Has anyone else had this problem and what modification was made to stop this failer?? You can PM the details if you wish.:Banghead
Cheers Tones

junk the rayc,, buy a better machine, i ran a 140 for 3 months and it was awful. however the final drive needs to be replaced with another with one more tooth on it, this should solve your problem

[QuickTrax]

I have worked on many mulching machines. The undercarriage is usually too small for the amount of weight that it has to move around. If your idler is leaking oil, this means your seals are either out or going out. You can either rebuild it or buy another idler. Majority of people just buy another idler. You are getting improper wear because you need to shim it again or possibly weld the wear areas inside your rollerframe back to good specs. You could always flip the idler but you wouldn't be solving the problem. We only put Berco products on mulching machines due to the extreme environment they are in. Mulching machines are really hard on the undercarriage. The undercarriage on the last Reyco that came into our shop was completely wore out. It had around 1600 hours on it. Most of the Mulching machines come w/ berco undercarriage when they are new. You can call just about any undercarriage dealer and they can sell you berco products.

[australian pete]

i have a T275 rayco that i bought second hand, i found the guy who bought it new, it has 3500 hours from new,it has worn out 2 sets of chains and 2 sprockets, all the rollers are shot, idlers also, the guy who bought it new told me rayco air frieghted a new set of chains when the first set wore out at no cost to him because they wore out so quickly. it has D4 rollers, not sure what the chains are off, all track gear on new machine was supplied by berco, i have been slowly rebuilding this machine, have ordered new chains, idlers and rollers from berco, chains and idlers are nil stock anywhere and i have to wait for berco factory in italy to manufacture them, i ordered (and had to pay upfront ) a month ago and should have them in december, sprockets coming from rayco in USA. D4 rollers are availabe ex stock here in australia. from my limited experience anything from rayco is 3 or 4 times more expensive than you would expect. i hope it performs well.

[australian pete]

I have worked on many mulching machines. The undercarriage is usually too small for the amount of weight that it has to move around. If your idler is leaking oil, this means your seals are either out or going out. You can either rebuild it or buy another idler. Majority of people just buy another idler. You are getting improper wear because you need to shim it again or possibly weld the wear areas inside your rollerframe back to good specs. You could always flip the idler but you wouldn't be solving the problem. We only put Berco products on mulching machines due to the extreme environment they are in. Mulching machines are really hard on the undercarriage. The undercarriage on the last Reyco that came into our shop was completely wore out. It had around 1600 hours on it. Most of the Mulching machines come w/ berco undercarriage when they are new. You can call just about any undercarriage dealer and they can sell you berco products.
hi quick trax,
i have a used T275 rayco that i bought second hand, have been rebilding it and have not used yet, it has D4 rollers and i guess D4 size chains, it weighs 18 metric tonnes, what does a D4 weigh ? what you say about the tracks being too light seems to make sense.

[QuickTrax]

Pete, I am guessing one would weigh around 25,000 LB.

[australian pete]

Pete, I am guessing one would weigh around 25,000 LB.

sounds like the rayco tracks are way too light.

[RocksnRoses]

Cat list the current D4 at around 8 tonnes, but I reckon our old D4 was only about 6-7 tonnes, a big difference to 18 tonnes.

Rn'R.

[Iron Horse]

I thought you found the chains were D5 Pete .

D4 do sound a bit light but it would depend on how many track rollers the machine has to spread the load .

[australian pete]

Cat list the current D4 at around 8 tonnes, but I reckon our old D4 was only about 6-7 tonnes, a big difference to 18 tonnes.

Rn'R.
even at 8 tonnes that is a HUGE difference
, 18 tonnes is a hell of a lot heavier than 8.
i reckon that explains a lot.

[australian pete]

I thought you found the chains were D5 Pete .

D4 do sound a bit light but it would depend on how many track rollers the machine has to spread the load .
the cat guy originally said that, then found they would not work and said D4 would fit. have now ordered off berco who supplied original tracks to rayco. rollers ( 8 each side ) are definately D4, guy from berco does not know what the chains are, he had to order off the berco factory in italy, he said the chains would be off some machine that is not sold in australia, therefore no stock in australia..berco can figure out what chains to supply by giving them the serial number off the machine. i think the berco factory in italy has to make them as i paid and ordered them a month ago and will not get them till december..

[QuickTrax]

Pete, The Berco part# I am showing on your machine is a CR4854/44 which is a Heavy Duty D4 excavator style chain. This chain is really common. Why did you order it from Italy. It is showing a D4D roller which is part# CR1328. I am showing your idler to be part# ID609 which is a John Deere 690B idler. Your top roller is part# CR2880. On your chain I am showing two other part#'s that would work. they are LK49/44 and CR3125/44. I am really surprised you couldn't find the chains and sprockets local. I sold 4 of the chains to the Bron Dealer about a week ago. His machines have the same problem, they wear out chains and rollers very very fast.

[australian pete]

Pete, The Berco part# I am showing on your machine is a CR4854/44 which is a Heavy Duty D4 excavator style chain. This chain is really common. Why did you order it from Italy. It is showing a D4D roller which is part# CR1328. I am showing your idler to be part# ID609 which is a John Deere 690B idler. Your top roller is part# CR2880. On your chain I am showing two other part#'s that would work. they are LK49/44 and CR3125/44. I am really surprised you couldn't find the chains and sprockets local. I sold 4 of the chains to the Bron Dealer about a week ago. His machines have the same problem, they wear out chains and rollers very very fast.
thanks QT, i ordered the tracks from berco Queensland,Australia. the guy from berco told me it all had to come from italy, rollers are in stock in australia, he did not know what the chains were. i will get the invoices out and see what the part numbers are and post them here. do you know why they would use an excavator style chain, another strange thing with rayco, why would they use D4 rollers and john derre idlers .i have ordered the sprockets from the rayco dealer in Queensland, they are coming from rayco in the US. who knows what other machine they fit. where is the bron dealer ?

[QuickTrax]

The Bron dealer is called Lynn Hendrix Equipment, they are in Livingston, Texas. I know the brons use the exc. style chain. We sell them the sealed and greased excavator chains and NOT the dry excavator chains. I think if they had a regular lubricated dozer chain under them the seals would fail rather quickly.
Your Rayco having a JD idler w/ Cat chains and rollers---I don't know why Rayco uses different undercarriage. I know Gradall uses different Berco parts also and they use Cat style chains and JD rollers and Idlers on the XL4200. Some manufacturers do that and your guess is as good as mine.

[australian pete]

i am guessing that berco decide what combination of chains /rollers/idlers etc go in, i think berco make the track frames because the have metric bolts holding the track rollers on. my guess is that they use different stuff so it is difficult to buy the track gear from any one else.

[Tones]

When you look at the tracks that Bron use and compaire them with the weight of the machine they are pretty much the same as the Rayco's

[australian pete]

When you look at the tracks that Bron use and compaire them with the weight of the machine they are pretty much the same as the Rayco's


i give up, who or what is a bron ?:):o

[Tones]

i give up, who or what is a bron ?:):o

RWF Bron make mulching tractors in Canada from 275hp to 550hp,can fit any mulching head the customer want.

[australian pete]

thanks tony, i have never heard of them, are there any in australia ?

[Tones]

I think National Vegetation have 1or 2 300hp but I haven't been able to find any agent for them in Aust.

[australian pete]

you would think one of the manufacturers of tracked forestry mowers would fit decent size tracks from new, i think my 275 probably needs D6 tracks.

[australian pete]

Pete, The Berco part# I am showing on your machine is a CR4854/44 which is a Heavy Duty D4 excavator style chain. This chain is really common. Why did you order it from Italy. It is showing a D4D roller which is part# CR1328. I am showing your idler to be part# ID609 which is a John Deere 690B idler. Your top roller is part# CR2880. On your chain I am showing two other part#'s that would work. they are LK49/44 and CR3125/44. I am really surprised you couldn't find the chains and sprockets local. I sold 4 of the chains to the Bron Dealer about a week ago. His machines have the same problem, they wear out chains and rollers very very fast.

hi quick trax, i had a look at the invoice, part number for chain is CR6511/44
link assembly ,greased,sealed.
idler group with track ajuster and tensioner, VA299C.
what do you come up with these numbers ?

[QuickTrax]

hi quick trax, i had a look at the invoice, part number for chain is CR6511/44
link assembly ,greased,sealed.
idler group with track ajuster and tensioner, VA299C.
what do you come up with these numbers ?

Pete, The CR6511/44 is the sealed and greased chain w/ split master links.
The LK49/44 is the sealed and greased chain w/ master pins. My customers had a problem with the master bolts breaking so we have started leaning towards the master pin type chain on mulchers. As long as you double check your master bolts every few days you shouldn't have a problem.
Your VA299C sounds like it is the entire track adjuster and idler set up. My number was just the complete idler.
Thanks, QuickTrax

[jamesn]

junk the rayco, buy a supertrack 140 hp, alot better machine than the rayco

[Tones]

Thanks for that Jim but we are a bit to far down the track,so we will continue to try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Who makes a supertrack?

[australian pete]

Pete, The CR6511/44 is the sealed and greased chain w/ split master links.
The LK49/44 is the sealed and greased chain w/ master pins. My customers had a problem with the master bolts breaking so we have started leaning towards the master pin type chain on mulchers. As long as you double check your master bolts every few days you shouldn't have a problem.
Your VA299C sounds like it is the entire track adjuster and idler set up. My number was just the complete idler.
Thanks, QuickTrax
thanks quick trax, that clears it up, the idler does include the entire track ajuster. is it the split master links that make this chain so rare, as i said earlier there are none in australia. do you know what CATmachine that chain would fit ?

[QuickTrax]

The CR6511/44 chain would fit the Cat 312, B or 311, B. The link count would be different but it would fit. The Chain that would come from cat would have master pins and not master links. The next time you need chains you could go to the cat dealer and put Cat on it to see how it would hold up. The Bron dealer I deal with has done that and he went back to the Berco because he wasn't getting any more time out of the Cat chain.

[jamesn]

supertrack is made by a company in florida, tom king is the owner. if you type in super track on your computer you will find the web site. take my word, as i have over 15 years in mulching. for a smaller machine supertrack is the way to go

[Digdeep]

supertrack is made by a company in florida, tom king is the owner. if you type in super track on your computer you will find the web site. take my word, as i have over 15 years in mulching. for a smaller machine supertrack is the way to go

Good luck getting service for the machine down in Australia. Supertrak buys machines/frames from CAT or Takeuchi and modifies them for mulching. They don't have a dealer network. They rely on the local CAT dealer for their generosity to work on it and I know of two owners up here in the Midwest that have given up on that arrangement- CAT charges enough as it is to work on equipment- imagine how effective they would be working on a machine they knew little about? Especially half way around the world. The machines do work well as I'm told but like I said- good luck with service.

[australian pete]

The CR6511/44 chain would fit the Cat 312, B or 311, B. The link count would be different but it would fit. The Chain that would come from cat would have master pins and not master links. The next time you need chains you could go to the cat dealer and put Cat on it to see how it would hold up. The Bron dealer I deal with has done that and he went back to the Berco because he wasn't getting any more time out of the Cat chain.
thanks quick trax for your help, it seems very few people know anything about the tracks on rayco's.
are greased tracks the same as SALT tracks ? as i understand it excavators normally have dry tracks so maybe that is why greased or SALT excavator chains are apparently so rare and that is probably the reason berco do not keep those chains in australia.

[QuickTrax]

Pete, I have not came across any excavators that have lubricated chains. The reason they do not come with lubricated chains is because the seals would fail quickly due to the wide pads and the side to side movement from the boom. The side to side movement would crack the thrust rings that keeps all of the weight off of the seals. Once the thrust rings crack, the seals would get smashed causing the oil to leak out and your joints would go dry. Majority of the aftermarket excavator chains we sell are sealed and greased. These chains have polyseals with no thrust rings. The polyseals help keep grease in the chain. The dry excavator chains have seal washers and not seals. These chains new come with a coating of grease in each joint only to keep it from freezing up while it sits waiting to be sold. Once intalled and used this grease quickly goes away. Most OEM chains are now sealed and greased w/ polyseals. We still see some that are the seal washer type but not many.
On your Rayco, the chains you ordered should be the sealed and greased type. If they are dry you will not get nearly the hours you would get. The price difference between the dry and sealed and greased are not that different.
We refer to the sealed and greased type as being the Heavy Duty chains.
Thanks, QuickTrax

[australian pete]

thanks for the explanation quick trax, i am starting to understand this now, when i ordered the chains i asked the guy from berco if they were SALT and he said yes, however on the invoice they are described as greased. i dont know if CAT sell the excavator in australia you mentioned, whan i got a price off CAT they were going to supply a D4 chain and berco have no stock in australia so maybe it is not sold here. does not matter as i guess the berco ones will be ok, i will just have to order them well in advance if i keep the rayco.one again thanks for taking the time to explain it all.