13 D11's pushing side by side in slots

[9420pullpan]

1015

[rino1494]

Wow, I wonder what they are doing, reclaiming ?

[16H]

very nice we have up to 4 D11s doing bulk push but 13 is a real treat!!:yup

[farmerted44]

that is moving some dirt!!!!!!

[Dozerboy]

No kidding, I bet they moved more dirt in one day than I have in my life.

[Ford LT-9000]

I guess thats the easiest way to strip the over burden off of what ever they are trying to reveal. That can't be the most economical way of doing it thou.

[CEwriter]

YIKES! Where was this?

L

[16H]

Ford Lt 9000- dozer push is actualy a lot cheaper than truck and shovel, where I work we try to "throw" the blast which is the cheapest then bulk push to make a bench for the draglines, we were told some figuires of the cost to move dirt and were told cheapest to expensive throw blastingwas cheapest followed by bulk dozer push then draglines then our own truck and excavator fleet and the most expensive was contractors, still nice to see 13 D11s in one place!:bouncegri

[Squizzy246B]

Ford Lt 9000- dozer push is actualy a lot cheaper than truck and shovel, where I work we try to "throw" the blast which is the cheapest then bulk push to make a bench for the draglines, we were told some figuires of the cost to move dirt and were told cheapest to expensive throw blastingwas cheapest followed by bulk dozer push then draglines then our own truck and excavator fleet and the most expensive was contractors, still nice to see 13 D11s in one place!:bouncegri

Exactly, they didn't put them there for the photo shot!:wink2

[Vahighwayman]

Now That Is Just a Beautiful Thing!!:thumbsup

[D10N]

I guess thats the easiest way to strip the over burden off of what ever they are trying to reveal. That can't be the most economical way of doing it thou.

We've got 9 D11's and a 10 right now doing nothing but levelling off drill patterns. That picture has to be a dragline pit - in copper we only use face shovels, so you'll rarely see more than 2 working a pit in a "hard rock" application. When stripping like that, the dozers will be much cheaper than using a shovel or dragline, and a whole lot faster.

[Dozerboy]

When stripping like that, the dozers will be much cheaper than using a shovel or dragline, and a whole lot faster.

How long of push? Its hard to be leave that dozers can be cheaper and fast then a large drag line. Not that I doubt you at all just curious.

[D10N]

Your biggest savings come in prep cost - no need to drill and shoot dirt and clay over the top of the rock. The big draglines and shovels require a more or less improved surface for them to work on, and by prepping with the shovels, they lose alot of time trying to make their own floor to work on, and then only getting partial dippers of material before they have a squared face to dig in.

After the drilling/blasting costs, the savings are more long term than immediate. It might take a month or more to realize the benefit.

Using current copper prices and our mine's average ore grade, each truckload of ore is around $20,000. By only using the shovels for loading, rather than stripping, we keep their availability up, and ship more ore by pushing off the overburden.

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Folks.
I'll give you that that photo is impressive and I don't have anything to top, even if I were taking it as a contest, which I ain't.

However, it occurred to me that the operation would be even more productive if those D11's were all working side by side, blade to blade instead of each in their own slot.

Many, many moons ago, in 1965 on the Hammersley Iron ore rail project in the Pilbara region of Western Australia, I received an object lesson in just how effective this method can be. It was required that some gravel be pushed out of a creek and stock-piled for loading onto trucks. The supervisor called in a D9G and two D8H's. He put the D9G in the middle and had the two D8 operators, one either side, hook the outer ends of their blades in front of the D9's blade before each push. Then the D9G partially carried the 2 D8's up the bank with him as he went and it sure got a lotta gravel out of that creek bed in a hurry.

There was only any spillage around the outer ends of the 2 D8 blades and none in between the inner ends of the D8 blades and the D9's blade and each dozer had a way bigger heap in front of it than it could push up the bank on its ownsome. It was great to watch and I have never forgotten it.

O.K., so there are going to be performance differences between any 13 D11's which would require that some operators would have to back off slightly to accomodate slower machines to stay in line. However, there would have to be a couple of absolute slugs in the line-up to stop it being way more effective than individual slot dozing. And if they're THAT sluggish, why aren't they in the 'recovery ward'?

Again, nice photo and thanks for posting.

You all have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

[digger242j]

However, it occurred to me that the operation would be even more productive if those D11's were all working side by side, blade to blade instead of each in their own slot.

I'd hate to be the guy in the middle--the pile might get high enough to come over the top of the blade and through the windshield... :eek:

Good story about getting the gravel out of the creek. I'd love to have seen that.

[D10N]

Here we've found that side by side effectiveness versus individual slots varies with material type, shot density, operators, and machine differences like you said. Out of all factors, operators are the biggest - some guys just can't work together in that close of quarters safely. And here we have the everpresent specter of buried boulders (100 yd³+) to throw off any hope of synchronization.

[Dozerboy]

I have done that a few times, I would think another concern would be added ware and tear. We have more than a few hands too that I would never go blade to blade with.

[mntman552]

The dozers are pushing overburden to build a dragline pad. The photo is definately staged because the backhoes digging where they are would fill up the slots where the dozers are running

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Mntman552.
I'm no expert on staged photos but I have had a little to do with using dozers to move material from one place to another. Not much mind you. I'm still a learner like many of us here and on other machinery BB's. I've only been making the Earth move for 47 years full time with about another 8 years before that doing it part time. So, as you may be able to see, I'm about halfway through my apprenticeship. (If you ever STOP learning, you're dead from the neck up.)

However, it did occur to me that excavators might be a better way than dozers to get the material away from the high wall behind them and throw it out to where "they would be filling up the dozer's slots" (To paraphrase your post.) Excavators don't have to turn a loaded blade to get the material away where a dozer would have to travel parallel to the wall to get a bladeful and then turn it away from the wall.

Having said that, large graders may also be a cheap way to get the material away from the wall, if it was free enough for a grader to work. I once operated an O&K G350 grader , a 42 tonner with a 20 foot blade and 380 hp that would surely move a LOTTA material from some fairly hard going. The Cat 24H's and M's are 8 tons plus heavier and have at least an extra 120 hp over the G350 so it might be interesting to see what they could do in that situation. BTW, the G350 is a rare beast with only 34 ever made.

Here is a link to a page about the O&K G350, with thanks to Thomas Kocherscheidt and his Polytrac.de site. There IS an error in the blade length spec on this page, at least as far as the machine I operated is concerned 'cos the blade length on the one I operated was around 5.9-6.0 metres - 20 feet.

http://members.aol.com/polyarch1/e-g350.htm

But I'm only a mug amateur so I do stand ready to be corrected, if that should be necessary.

[Dozerboy]

X2 it hard for me to believe this is staged since this is the only pic of 13 D11s I've seen if that was my $$$ I would of at least taken a few pics.

[OzDozer]

Deas is right about the blade-to-blade pushing .. it's an extremely effective way to move dirt .. and I've shifted many hundreds of thousands of yards, over many years, working blade to blade .. it adds about 20% to pushing productivity ..

Dozerboy has nailed it .. to work effectively, requires great co-ordination, and good operators that can work with each other. I doubt whether you'd get 13 guys that could work together and co-ordinate blade-to-blade pushing, for any length of time.
One of the problems with B-2-B pushing, is it requires a higher level of concentration, as compared to working alone .. and just switching off, and letting the dirt roll, while you turn up the favorite song on the radio .. :D

Three tractors is the most you could effectively co-ordinate on a B-2-B push. Any more, and you have great problems with machine to machine accidental contact .. and resultant possible damage to blades, guards, etc., ..

My nephew has a pic of my three D-375 Komatsu's pushing blade to blade .. an impressive pic, to say the least. I'll have to see if I can get it off him.

[greywynd]

We've done B2B pushes with snow, loader in the middle with a 20' blade, and two tractors on either side with 14' blades. In light snow it's not worth the effort, you can windrow it quicker then trying to do the B2B. Once you hav a windrow though, or a heavy snow, it's possible to move a much bigger pile in the one push than you ever could with the three machines. (Even if they had box blades.)

Mark

[mntman552]

I work at a large coal mine here in wyoming. The excavators cut the highwall down and dump it into piles for the dozers to push down to grade. All I was saying was that the photo was staged because the hoes would be dumping the spoil dirt behind the dozers and they wouldnt beable to get up on the hoe pad. They could very well have 13 dozers pushing in the same pit but they wouldnt be working in the formation that they are in the pic in such proximity to the hoes and you can see from the push marks going accross the slope they moved the dozers over for the pic

[Scrub Puller]

Yair...spot on Deas Plant. I'm new on these pages but somewhere I saw some piccys of some nice little LGP sixes on along drift I think in the Netherlands. Why the hell didn't they team up and REALY move some dirt?

We had a nominated middle man with extensions welded onto the corner tips, the two outside tractors would tuck their blades in behind these and it made it easier to keep everything in line.

[diggerop]

That is a staged photo for sure, I count 7 slots that have been recently worked, the rest have snow on them, some of the dozers are not even in slots, ok you have to push the rills every so often, so it is the first push first push in that area for some of the dozers. Those 3 excavators would not clean up enough wall to keep 13 dozers productive, plus all the other reasons already mentioned. Still it's a good photo and I take my hat off to the bloke who organised it, he would have had the hardest job.:yup

[Gavin84w]

Try these for size just for the doubters, i think it is North Antelope Rochelle mine and i was told there were 5 more D11,s to the left that did not get in that pic

[Gavin84w]

One more

[Dozerboy]

Cool

[9420pullpan]

WOW wish I was running on of those D11's

[mntman552]

Depending on when those were taken I could have been in one of the hoe's or dozers. Been grounding for dragline lately and havent been in the production push for quite a while

[Gavin84w]

Good stuff mntman552, so can you confirm if the topic title picture was actualy 13 dozers together with more out of the pic?

I guess it would have to be also the mine you work at if that is not the case but from what i know the PRB mines have made this method an art and i am sure it is done at more than one property.

Any ideas what D11 population vs D475 is in the PRB?

[Stripmine]

Just saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5q1DNLmJMo&feature=rec-HM-r2

Not as many but same idea.

[mntman552]

The first pictures of the thirteen dozers pushing side by side was taken at I believe Black Thunder Mine and I think they were Washington Groups dozers. The second group of pics were definately taken at NARM. As for the 475 to d11 ratio I know that a North Rochell mine used to run a few Komatsu's but when Black Thunder bought them out I think most of them got junked out. For dozers its definately CAT county out here.

[AtlasRob]

Just saw this video

Not as many but same idea.

I believe that is the party piece as staged by C@t at thier Malaga training/demonstration ground.

I expect other venues are available :D


I was told by an Australian engineer a couple of years ago how the mine he had worked in back home would set a blast to throw the overburden, then the dozers would go in and push a quantity, then they would dig and throw with draglines.

He maintained that the push length and amount of material moved by the dozers was carefully monitored / controlled and the powers that be knew at what point it was no longer productive to use the dozers in such a manner.

[Gavin84w]

Atlas Rob,

I have heard Thiess use the "cast blast and dozer push" method in some Queensland mines and the idea is you get free dirt moved from the cast blast so this is how it becomes a cheaper way to move dirt. You have to blow it up any way so why not move it where you need it when you do, then the dozers come in and move more while setting it up to a level for a dragline and so on and so on.