Wabco 111A trouble

[frankderrico]

Can someone please give some advice? My Wabco 111A lost a bearing and seal on the right axle. It seems like the only accses is throuth the plate on the back, but there is no room and I can not figure out how to get the big round gear off the axle and get the axle out to replace the bearings and seals.:beatsme TIA.....Frank

[ATCOEQUIP]

Can you send a few pics?

[frankderrico]

Thanks for getting back,here are some pics of the mess, if you need more let me know.....Frank40265

40266

40267

40269

[ATCOEQUIP]

I haven't worked on one of those, but it does look like it's retained from the inside somehow. I know 25c has a Wabco, not sure which model. Our Aussie and New Z friends have tons of Wabco's, I'm sure someone will jump in on this one. The pics are a big help and are very nice pics. ;)

[frankderrico]

I know it has to come out, but I just am getting a headache trying to figure it out:Banghead but thank you again for getting back on it. I hope some of our Wabco people can give me the procedure to get the axle out.....Frank:)

[td25c]

I have a wabco c-pull .The 111a look's simular to mine.pull the fuel tank & center cover,this will allow you to see the inner bearing cap on the axil.Mine has 6 bolts to remove ,then pull the cap.This will reveal the axil nut.Remove the axil nut & flange bolts and the axil can be pulled.

[frankderrico]

25c, thanks for the help! I had thought about taking off the fuel tank to see if I could get to the end of the axle from there, but decided to ask for help before making more work by doing something not needed. Your pictures will definatly be a big help. I'll be out there tommorow and give it a try. Time to sit back with a much needed martini:drinkup.....Frank

[ATCOEQUIP]

You beat me to it 25c. I was walking the dog and thinkin' about the pics and was considering that gear in the pic and was thinking in order for a drive gear to be on that shaft there has to be a bearing on the very inside of the unit, and that there was probably a retainer on the other side of that bearing. I do believe you've got the old boy fixed up. :notworthy

[td25c]

No problem frankderrico.Us wabco folks stick together.What year is the 111a?Did it take the place of the wabco D-pull?My C-pull is a paddel self loader to.It's 22 yard at heaped capacity.I have a few pics of it on the scraper forum under "wabco c-pull".The 111a look's alot like the c-pull.I forgot to mention the axil nut on the inside will most likely be a "splined" wabco nut.I have fabricated wrenches & sockets for the splined nut.A pipewrench will usualy work if it will fit in the position.

[td25c]

You beat me to it 25c. I was walking the dog and thinkin' about the pics and was considering that gear in the pic and was thinking in order for a drive gear to be on that shaft there has to be a bearing on the very inside of the unit, and that there was probably a retainer on the other side of that bearing. I do believe you've got the old boy fixed up. :notworthy

Your sharp ATCOEQUIP.I woud have posted sooner but I was cooking chicken on the grill outside.We dont have it fixed yet,but we are closer .I think the 111a is about the same design as my c-pull.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Your sharp ATCOEQUIP.I woud have posted sooner but I was cooking chicken on the grill outside.We dont have it fixed yet,but we are closer .I think the 111a is about the same design as my c-pull.

Your cookin' chicken on the grill outside! First it's grandma's apple pie, now it's chicken on the grille! Your killing me! :Banghead :D :drinkup

[td25c]

Can someone please give some advice? My Wabco 111A lost a bearing and seal on the right axle. It seems like the only accses is throuth the plate on the back, but there is no room and I can not figure out how to get the big round gear off the axle and get the axle out to replace the bearings and seals.:beatsme TIA.....Frank

Hey frank.Before you pull the fuel tank & center cover check for a axil cover on the inside of the frame down in the transmission area.

[frankderrico]

25c thanks I'm headed out to the shop now. I'll check for the axle cover before pulling the tank. I'll let you know what I find.....Frank

[frankderrico]

25c ther is an axle cover plate on the inside. It looks like I would have to get to it from the bottom by taking off the skid plate. Does that sound right to you? If so I'll have to block it up pretty good.....Frank

[td25c]

Glad you got the message.I had a brain malfunction on post 6,luckily it was just short term memory loss.I think you will be pulling the skid plate and some floor plates on the operators station.I took a pic of the axil cover plate on my c-pull this after noon.It's between the transmission and the inner frame.I also took a pic of the splined nut you may have on the 111a.Make sure to use good cribbing under the frame.I use 6x6 wood cribbing 4' long built up log cabin stile.I have also used railroad ties .I lay down a 4'x8' sheet of plywood so I can use a transmission jack on the skid pan.This is a 2 man job,just be careful.I have never pulled the axils on my c-pull so we will all learn on this thread.I have had the wheels off for a brake job.I have the parts book and manuals if they help.Holler any time frankderrico.

[frankderrico]

25c thanks for the pics. I have the tractor all blocked up and the bottom pan off. I wish it were the left side, it looks like a clean shot to that axle cover. The right one no luck, the trans. seems to be somewhat off center and real tight to that cover. Question for you. Can I get better access to the cover by taking off the trans oil pan? I see what you mean about the splined nut. A pipe wrench will probably work. I'll be at it again in the morning and let you know what happen. Thanks again for staying with me on this one.....Frank

[td25c]

I dont know.Send us a picture of the right side.It sounds like you have the automatic powershift tranny.I have a 5 speed crash box on the old c-pull.Removing the oil pan might give you the room needed.But dont hold me to it.I am not familliar with the powershift wabco scrapers.

[frankderrico]

25c Good afternoon, well I have the axle cap off. It took all morning, I reached them from underneath and on top. Three I could not see, had to do it by feel. I left the trans pan on I don't think it would have help to take it off. The ones on the bottom I could see from under the machine, the ones on top I could not see. Tommorow I'll tackle getting the nut off and hope to pull the axle out. From seeing the nut I don't think it looks like yours, it looks round with some cut out on the face of the nut. Ther is very little room to work, and I wish my arms were 6" longer. I'll have to fabricate a wrench to grab it. I'll let you know how it goes, have a good one.....Frank

[td25c]

Sounds like you are getting closer frankderrico.The axil caps are in a tight place on my c-pull to,If I remove the seat & deck plates ,I can get into the frame area easier.However your 111a is a different model.Fabricating the wrench will work fine,Alot of the wabco wrenches look like they are made from 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick steel.My book talks about putting the wrench on the axil nut and letting the end of the wrench rest on the frame or rear case wall.Then put a wrench on the pinion shaft .By turning the pinion shaft ,this gives you a mechanical advantage to loosen the axil nut.Not to mention you are standing on the outside pulling on the wrench attached to the final drive pinion shaft.Just make sure you are turning it the rite direction to loosen the axil nut.

[td25c]

Here are some pages out of my service manual on axil removal.

[frankderrico]

:(Good morning 25c. Yesturday was a bummer, I fabricated a wrench for the axle nut. but it failed to work. Today its back to the bench to try again but hey you learn from your mistakes. Its a good thing I'm not busy right now. I'm planning to move dirt in a couple of more weeks. All of my other equipment is ready to go. About a year after I bought the Wabco I was looking at a dozer at the dealer who had sold the 111A to the man I bought it from. We got to talking and he sad they had a big box of parts and tools that came with the machine that he wanted $100.00 for and the man I bought it from didn't want them! I said I would buy them, they looked all over but could not find them. I could use them now. Well I'm out to the shop, thank you for your help and sharing your shop manual.....Frank:usa

[dayexco]

want to buy a twin to that for a parts machine? detroit runs fine, tranny's out.

[frankderrico]

DAEXCO, do you want to sell the machine or are you going to part it out? I like Case to, have an 1150E LGP LT with full cab. When I sized down I kept it and sold my D8H and straight 1150. I have a CAT 930 wheel loader that I like alot. and a 3208 CAT in a dump truck that I can always count on.....Frank:)

[dayexco]

DAEXCO, do you want to sell the machine or are you going to part it out? I like Case to, have an 1150E LGP LT with full cab. When I sized down I kept it and sold my D8H and straight 1150. I have a CAT 930 wheel loader that I like alot. and a 3208 CAT in a dump truck that I can always count on.....Frank:)

i want to sell the whole machine, not parts off of it. 2 yrs ago when parked because of trans problems, the detroit ran great. tranny's out. you send a truck, we'll help load, $2k. let me know if you want some more pics of it.

[frankderrico]

Send some pics.....Frank

[scraperboy222]

Gday Frank looks like you have got plenty of good advice i have been fishing so sorry to take so long to reply there are days we all wish we had longer or double jointed arms fingers etc there are some twisted persons that design some of these assemblies looks like your on the right track.

cheers

Bevan

[frankderrico]

scrapperboy222, thanks for the encourgement,:) I can use it. I'm doing this job mostly by myself and it is not easy. My son is coming over today so I can help him replace a leaf spring on one of his semi trailers. I'll get him to help me pull the axle. Does any one have a parts book for the 111A's? Part #'s for the axle bearings and races and seals would help. Thanks.....Frank:usa

[Dickerson Bros]

You may need to pull the cockpit to do it. Working from the bottom is really hard. Be glad it is not the left, it is almost undoable. You can actually loosen the cockpit and jack it up from the back to get clearance to get inside. Those two axles are the second hardest thing to fix. Brushes in the gen were my hardest. If you ever need help contact me there isn't anything I havent done with one of these over the past 30 years. normand43@verizon.net I also have parts available.

[frankderrico]

Dickerson Bros, thanks Ill try that. I looked at that possibility a couple of times and thought it might be the way. How far do you jack up the cockpit? Is there enough play in the wiring, hoses, etc.....Frank

[Dickerson Bros]

Take your hood off. Then when you jack, the cockpit will raise in the back and the front part will slide back. You will need to take the wires off of the transformer pack and loosen the pack so it will come up with the cockpit. Check to see if you can take the cable holders loose, this may save you from taking the transformer out. You need to loosen your air line and gear shift take apart. Block the cockpit because it will slide and it is heavy and it will hurt. ou may need a come along to help protect you or a chain. If you don't have the proper tools, you will ruin the nut. Sometines that nut needs heat to loosen. Try to find the corrwect wrenches. When you put it back together you will need those wrenches to set the torque that preloads the bearings. If the bearings were extremely loose ypu may have a broken axel. Pug a magnet on the shaft if everything is cleaned real good and slowly pour metal filings or dust at the flange and shaft connection. If the dust lines up in several places it is indicating a crack. That is what those axel shafts do and then break. I used to hot rod the turns loaded and I have replaced a few of them totally by myself, but I was young and didn't mind. I have crawled from one end to and through and around to the other. If you are a contortionist it helps. Where are you located? I have 6 of those machines I would be happy to sell and parts and tools. Good luck

[Dickerson Bros]

Take your hood off. Then when you jack, the cockpit will raise in the back and the front part will slide back. You will need to take the wires off of the transformer pack and loosen the pack so it will come up with the cockpit. Check to see if you can take the cable holders loose, this may save you from taking the transformer out. You need to loosen your air line and gear shift take apart. Block the cockpit because it will slide and it is heavy and it will hurt. You may need a come along to help protect you or a chain. If you don't have the proper tools, you will ruin the nut. Sometines that nut needs heat to loosen. Try to find the corrwect wrenches. When you put it back together you will need those wrenches to set the torque that preloads the bearings. If the bearings were extremely loose ypu may have a broken axel. Pug a magnet on the shaft if everything is cleaned real good and slowly pour metal filings or dust at the flange and shaft connection. If the dust lines up in several places it is indicating a crack. That is what those axel shafts do and then break. I used to hot rod the turns loaded and I have replaced a few of them totally by myself, but I was young and didn't mind. I have crawled from one end to and through and around to the other. If you are a contortionist it helps. Where are you located? I have 6 of those machines I would be happy to sell and parts and tools. Good luck

[frankderrico]

Thanks for the advice Dickerson Bros., I'll give it a try. You know your WABCO'S, when I get the axle out I know I'm going to need bearings and races and seals, do you know the part #'s? I'm located in central Wisconsin, my son is a trucker and gets all over, maybe if we need some parts or tools he could book a load your way and stop by. Were are you located? TIA.....Frank:usa

[Dickerson Bros]

I'm in Virginia just south of I-95 and rt17 interchange, place called Spotsylvania. I am having my books brought to me so I can get you those numbers.

[frankderrico]

Thanks....Frank

[manish]

can someone please give some advice? My wabco 111a lost a bearing and seal on the right axle. It seems like the only accses is throuth the plate on the back, but there is no room and i can not figure out how to get the big round gear off the axle and get the axle out to replace the bearings and seals.:beatsme tia.....frank

hello frank,

the part # are as per below:

1. Oilseal # sf2848
2. Race # h-5029
3. Roller bearing # h5028

also i can help you with new parts , you can avail the same from me.

[Showpony]

Hi Frank
Its been a while since I have been into a 111a rear end, we used to remove the diesel tank to get at the inner axle bearing retaining nut, while you have the rear end apart it is good practice to crack test the bull gears and pinions, do not get to concerned over chipping on the crowns of the teeth, it is cracks at the root that will let you down, if you have chipping on the bull gear and/or pinions, a mod we did was to weld a re-enforcing plate across the fuel tank cavity, the rear axle housings flex on 111as and cause premature pinion and bull gear failure, an 8mm plate will stop this happening. If you need to get back in you will have to cut it out, a sure sign of flexing is oil weaping around the fuel tank flange and/or the final drive covers. Swapping bull gears & pinions from left to right side of the machine after around 10000 hrs helps as well. Another tip is if you are removing the park brake retaining nut to remove the left side pinion, put the wench on the nut. lodge the wrench against the frame and run the transmission in reverse to unwind the nut, this will save 3-4 hours of fustration. reverse this proceedure to install, about 1200 rpm in 1st gear will give you about the right torque. make sure you set the 4 brace screws in the final drive housings before you set up your bearing preloads. Do not attempt to undo any of the splined nuts without the genuine wrenches, I bet Dickersons will have the manuals and tools you need.
good luck.