Geo fabrics under road base

[danielm]

I have about 400 feet of drive to cut and redo on my property. Native soil is black gumbo silt that has little load bearing properties when wet. Previous owner(s) layed all sorts of trash material (busted brick, washout...) which is disappearing into the muck.
I've heard of using fabric under a base that will assist in problem areas such as this.
Could someone tell me a bit more about this stuff? Source, cost, what type of base goes on top...

I'd like to be a bit more knowlegable before I get some bids.

Anyone north of Dallas want to do this job?

[Squizzy246B]

Geo-Grid is your friend...and so is Google. Probably a bit over the top for driveways but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

http://www.geogrid.com/

[danielm]

Geo-Grid is your friend...and so is Google. Probably a bit over the top for driveways but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

http://www.geogrid.com/

Yep... I spoke with them, along with others, who only offer a product for slopes/retaining wall applications.

Figured there would be an expert here who works with this stuff under road base.

[Squizzy246B]

Yep... I spoke with them, along with others, who only offer a product for slopes/retaining wall applications.

Figured there would be an expert here who works with this stuff under road base.

:confused:There is a bunch of different types but we have used it under houses being built on the side of clay hills. I can't see how it wouldn't work if laid in the right direction, deep enough. I'm not sure how coarse or abrasive your roadbase is but the suppliers should be able to give you all the tecnical assistance thats required.

To what depth has the previous owner installed the material?.

[Steve Frazier]

Geogrid is designed for holding slopes, what you want for your application is a geotextile. There are different types for different applications, I'd google geotextile and start asking manufacturers what you need. I'm pretty sure it will be a fiberglass felt of some type, there are different types for different traffic loads I believe. What they do is form an impermeable layer so you aggregate does not migrate into the soft materials, yet it allows water to pass through and drain. I've used them with success while working over soft clay.

[hvy 1ton]

Post up whatever you find out. I have a few "roads" to hay fields that will eat 3" rock every year. One of the roads i need to support a tandem for moving mulch and compost.

[Noose]

If your putting down 4"- material as a base then use a geo textile with 3" less holes. THis keeps your product suspended. THe finer the product the finer the holes in your geotextile.

[Turbo21835]

I have used a product that we know as Tenstar. It basically looked like a wide version of snow fence. Instead of orange, it was black, and it seems to be a little tougher than snow fence. We would cut to the desired grade, roll out the geogrid. On top of that we would place #2 limestone. It is roughly the size of a fist. On top of that, we would that #2s off with a material called 304. Basically two medium sizes of stone with fines mixed in.

Our purpose was to bridge over some 60 inch concrete pipe used as a raw water supply. The reason was to spread the weight of the road and traffic out across the area rather than just over the pipe. The same principal applies to spread weight out over your roadway. That being said, thats the new way. The old fashion way is to "corduroy" your road way then stone over top. The corduroy consist of brush and small trees laid length wise across the road, tight to the other pieces, then stone over it. The application will last for some time, but will eventually fail. The plastic types will fail eventually too, but that wont be in any of our lifetimes if they are properly installed.

[buddy605]

A few suppliers in this area for that type of problems are http://www.terrafixgeo.com/content/?id=52
http://www.tensarcorp.com/

I have only used it for building a road made of clay over a pond and it worked very well..

[Alan Mesmer]

I have also had very good success using geo-textile for driveway bases. The stuff that I use looks a lot like silt fence on steroids and is very tough. I once had to excavate across a field access drive that I put in a few years before for a new field drainage project and as a dug across the drive it actually started lifting 5" thk. packed 304 and base limestone up with the fabric until I finally cut it. Many of my driveways are also on clay and I will not do another drive without it. The think the material that I use is 120" wide and costs about $300 for a 300' roll.

Alan

[telescooper]

We use geotextile in wet areas to keep the mud out of the aggregates. We have placed aggs as big as R6 but mostly used with 1's and 2's. This is some tough stuff but doesn't have any load bearing capabilities. I have seen it used under some road bases but have never used it in this application.
Telescooper

[tuney443]

I once built a long driveway on running sand that when wet resembled quicksand.I was putting down 3' of bony shale and my 10 wheeler,when loaded,would still roll on top.I put down the geotek,reduced the base to a foot,and voila--like the rock of Gibralter.

[CM1995]

I have used a product similiar to this - http://www.geotextile.com/downloads/Geotex%20Nonwoven%20Product%20Line%20Brochure_Mar% 2007.pdf

Like Steve and Turbo said the purpose of the material is to form a separation between the poor soil subbase and your roadway material. The fabric keeps the stone out of the soft soil and by doing this spreads the load out across the poor soil layer, similiar in concept to an LGP dozer.

I have used it in road repairs where after over digging a few feet the subbase was still poor. I have rolled this material out, folding it back up the sides of the hole, filling with #57,#2,#24 or #8910 stone, wrapping the fabric back over the fill and then place 8-12" of binder asphalt on top of that. Always fixed the problems we had. Keep in mind this is was used to fix a residential street, hence the asphalt.

Also typical construction exits on jobsites require the same type geotextile underneath the gravel layer for the same reason. It keeps the aggregate that is used to clean the tires up on top of the ground instead of being mashed into it.

[Orchard Ex]

I use the Mirafi products from :
http://www.tencate.com/smartsite.dws?id=1090
It's some tough stuff.

[Dwan Hall]

If you get a roll of it you will find many uses for it. (Mirafi) is one of the brands we use. It has the same properties as woven fiberglass mating, Place it between any 2 types of materials 1 of them been sound and fem and it improve the week one.

[buddy605]

I also used it as a liner for a settling pond but we had to sew it together and we hammered in staples that were 6" long to join it together. so it would act all as one I spent more time cursing after hitting my hand with the hammer so many times. These were all clay jobs though

[Raildudes dad]

danielm:

I've used geotextiles, geogrid and geoweb numerous times in my 37 years as a civil engineer with the local county highway authority. What you use will be determined the use of the drive. Car traffic with an occasional truck? regular truck use? I'm using a layer of fabric, 8 inches of big aggregate, another layer of fabric and then 6 inches of road gravel with 3 inches of asphalt pavement on a current project. This road will handle occasional logging traffic. If you will have only car traffic, 1 layer of fabric will probably work.

You really need to find a supplier of the products with a good technical staff. They can advise you on what to use, how much of the various materials and what's most economical.

You might want to consider cement stabilization. I had a contractor building a bike path over the "native" ground after the topsoil was stripped. When it got wet, the subgrade was real soft and the gravel aggregate was rutting heavily. Since it wasn't going to dry out before winter, the contractor rototilled powered cement (used bagged cement) into 6 inches of road gravel. He watered it, we waited 4-5 days and the were able to run loaded asphalt trucks down the path w/o any rutting. Your aggregate does need to have about 4-6 percent clay to work well. It was really reasonable be compared to fabrics, grid or web.

Feel free to ask more more questions.

[nzpatch]

I have used the geotextile cloth on meny jobs ,one the cat 135 grader was up to the chain case's in mud but with the cloth and 300mm of gravel loaded trucks were all good.
cool stuff!! Also dug sum ponds in a swamp for a fresh-water crayfish farm ,had to line the pond with ap65 gravel and got the d3c stuck meny times but with cloth we could run the dozer with only 200mm of ap65,with sum buldges , anywhere!

[AtlasRob]

In the UK Terram http://www.terram.com/ is very popular.

As stated in previous posts your traffic will determin what you end up using.

[stock]

I have about 400 feet of drive to cut and redo on my property. Native soil is black gumbo silt that has little load bearing properties when wet. Previous owner(s) layed all sorts of trash material (busted brick, washout...) which is disappearing into the muck.
I've heard of using fabric under a base that will assist in problem areas such as this.
Could someone tell me a bit more about this stuff? Source, cost, what type of base goes on top...

I'd like to be a bit more knowlegable before I get some bids.

Anyone north of Dallas want to do this job?


What was the end result danielm? how did the job go?

[danielm]

We've just thrown some rock on top and crowned it a bit for now. Gonna have to do it right before next spring though.
I have other drainage issues on the property I'm dealing with at the moment.

[stock]

We've just thrown some rock on top and crowned it a bit for now. Gonna have to do it right before next spring though.
I have other drainage issues on the property I'm dealing with at the moment.



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