Tiltrotators and Today's Marketplace

[RoadDoc]

Anybody have a tiltrotator?

www.engcon.se I'm sure there are others out there besides this brand... Just an example.

Do you like it?

Does it make you more money?

Does it save labor cost / speed up production?

From AtlasRob in another thread:
So today I was chatting to an Engcon rep.
Although I believe my machine is ready to just pin one on, the quote includes powering it from the levers just in case.
As I use a breaker and do some hard digging at times, it is recommended I have a detachable set up which basically means I have a fully automatic hitch on the machine which I would use as now ( need adapter plates for my buckets and breaker at £220 a time ) then the tilt/rotator would pick up on the hitch.
Ready

£11,430 another £550 if it needed to be fitted ( wired ) + 15% tax.

In all fairness that is the very worse situation, because there are so many different bits that could be needed without a survey it was better to include wiring etc that almost certainly wont be needed.



I think it would be really great to have one of these attachments. But, as AtlasRob has clearly demonstrated in this quote, the things are extremely expensive....:eek: I'm sure the cost will mitigate in time with competition and market growth, however, they are rather complex and will probably always be somewhat expensive.

From my web surfing, I see tiltrotators have really become a necessity to compete in some European markets. What I have seen also indicates that they would have their place with anyone working on a restrictive utility job or urban site. Looks awesome when working around existing utilities!

I know things work different in Europe than here in the U.S. I don't know much about their labor laws. I have gathered from people with experience in other industries there that it is a little more regulated or stringent. That may justify the cost of such a flexible and expensive attachment, I don't know. :beatsme

I can't speak for AtlasRob but, I recall him mentioning it is hard to get customers in his market to pay extra for more flexible attachments in the plant hire business. I feel safe in assuming the same would be even more true here in the U.S. In my opinion, we tend to have more room to work and the jobs tend to be larger in size and scope.

What I do see is that contracts (at least in federal highway maintenance work) are being written with ever shorter work windows and larger penalties for not getting off the road in time. Not to mention the A + B bids that I am seeing more of where your hard bid has a time element that attaches bonus / penalty factors to the contract based on the number of days you say it will take to complete the work. Lettings are so eratic now that a contractor must be very flexible as to the type of work he does if he wants to have work to bid on at all. For example, Georgia has only four or five jobs in this month's D.O.T. letting (normally many more than that). Kentucky canceled one of its lettings this year.

Things are changing fast for the smaller contractors. Instead of focusing on only grading/pipe a contractor may by necessity have to look at demo., landscaping or clearing to stay in business this quarter. I can see a need for the flexiblilty a tiltrotator could bring a smaller company that doesn't have miles of road to build or many thousands of feet of pipe to lay every day. Today he may be called upon to replace lead water service pipes in a city street and tomorrow he may have to do emergency storm debris removal.... I know everyone is already doing this to some extent. What is the cost, though? Do you make up for it with more labor? Does it make sense to have to rent different equipment for every job? Do you really want to own that many diversified pieces of equipment? If not, how do you build equity? How do you train and retrain all of that extra labor every day without losing time and money to the learning curves? Can you even find help capable of dealing with the daily changes without sacraficing safety? :Pointhead

Sorry to rant/ramble on so over an equipment attachment. :o I just have a ton of respect for you folks out there that are getting it done everyday. I don't know how you're making any money when things are changing so fast all around you. My hat's off to all of you! :notworthy You deserve the best tools to work with every day. :bash

[Hendrik]

Horses for courses I suppose.
My question is how will it affect the boom? There may well be side loading on it as the bucket digs at different angles to the machine.
From what I can gather the rotators main advantage is to replace some of the jobs skid steers do on a site.
However the problem still exist, that the ex can only do one job at a time and can't be in two places at once.
The big market for them would be in pipe laying, where precision is required and may well eliminate the need to have a person physically guide the pipe into position, this would be safer, cheaper and quicker.
Anyway time will tell how they go in the market place. Often it is the case of one operator fitting one to his machine and then all the other operators can see whether it is a plus or minus.

[RoadDoc]

Hendrik, thanks for your response:

Good point about side loading. My thinking about that wasn't necessarily the boom but the swing motor....:confused:

I see where you are coming from about the skid steer. Pairing skid steers with mini/midi excavators is a popular trend now. Might make more sense since most jobs one would use equipment for require at least two people to get anything done (i.e. belling up pipe/verifying grade, rigging some lifts, etc.). The advantage of the solo excavator may be that you have one less piece of iron to pay for/support and instead of two operator pay rates the company would have an operator and a laborer (usually at a rate substancially less than operator). Further, depending upon the size of the excavator, you may have a lot more power/load chart than a skid steer. Like you said, "Horses for courses".... :drinkup

Let's hope some folks can afford to put them in the field for everyone to see! :D

[Hendrik]

Let's hope some folks can afford to put them in the field for everyone to see! :D
Don't think it is some being able to afford but more a case of the rotator paying for itself.
Operators will happily whack one on their machine if they can see that in a couple of years the attachment has paid for itself and is making a profit for the machine owner.
For example as I am just starting out with my little ex I can't go out and buy every attachment that I would like. Love a quick hitch, a hammer, an auger and whatever else I can hook up to it but right now I have three buckets that have to be changed over by hand, not such a big deal on a 500kg machine (although my 200mm trencher does weigh a bit and is very solidly constructed, which is good because it has tiger teeth and is supposed to do the tough stuff), once I am up and running I will have the cash flow to justify things that will make the machine more versatile.

[Sweden]

Hi guys, as i am from Sweden and also working here i can tell you(you wont belive this) that our machines are not allowed on site whitout tiltrotators! When we purchased the first one we could charge a bit extra for the unit but now it is a must. The reason we invested in one was because the first machine on site is always the one with a tilt rotator, and also the last machine to leave.We cant be whithout them..
I know that the manufacturer Rototilt is already in the US but i would advise to contact a company called Engcon.I read in a magazine that they are setting up something over there. We have tried both models and all our drivers prefere the Engcon units. ALso they are pretty good on service and support. I have only good to say about this gadget.

[RoadDoc]

Welcome to the forum Sweden! :usa

Thanks for your input. Does your company have many different sizes of excavators? How long is your construction season? I would think machines are expensive if everyone has to have a tiltrotator.

Hendrik:

I agree with what you are saying. Just wondering who will be the first to take the "plunge." :jawdrop

[Hendrik]

Hendrik:

I agree with what you are saying. Just wondering who will be the first to take the "plunge." :jawdrop
May be that a tiltrotator manufacturer 'gives' one to a large construction/earthmoving/demolishion company to try out. However the way things are not too many operators will be looking to fork out $$$$$'s to gain a little bit of efficiency.
Anyway from what I understand the tiltorator developed from specialised forest equipment, I have seen them work on the TV but have not seen a tree harvester in the flesh. You know those attachments that grab a tree, cut it, turn it on it's side, strip the branches off and then cut the tip off the log.

[Sweden]

Welcome to the forum Sweden! :usa

Thanks for your input. Does your company have many different sizes of excavators? How long is your construction season? I would think machines are expensive if everyone has to have a tiltrotator.

Hendrik:

I agree with what you are saying. Just wondering who will be the first to take the "plunge." :jawdrop

Hi, we started off on a 210 and that unit was on a "demo", after a two weeks the operator said that everything that the engcon sales rep said was true, "the only thing that holds me back is my own imagination". This guy was in his late 60's so we where all a bit surprised.... The second unit we had i think was on a 5 tonner working with a tarmac gang finishing off. kerbs and stuff. ideal!. After that it has just become a standard.
As i am from the north we have quite a short season, smaller machines and most jobs stops in 1st of Dec and starts again inMarch-Aprlil depending on where you are in the country, north or South.
Regarding the price of the machine i must admit that it sounds like an awful lut of money but if you have a closer look it is not too bad
1.Quick coupler is included i the price (3000?)
2.No need for a "tilting bucket" (3500?)
3.if youre using a grab or something that requires a rotation, its there already

[RoadDoc]

May be that a tiltrotator manufacturer 'gives' one to a large construction/earthmoving/demolishion company to try out. However the way things are not too many operators will be looking to fork out $$$$$'s to gain a little bit of efficiency.
Anyway from what I understand the tiltorator developed from specialised forest equipment, I have seen them work on the TV but have not seen a tree harvester in the flesh. You know those attachments that grab a tree, cut it, turn it on it's side, strip the branches off and then cut the tip off the log.

Let the record show that I will be the first to volunteer a demonstration machine in the U.S. market!!! :usa:D:notworthy

I agree that one would not see huge gains in efficiency on production machines (i.e. digging mainline trenches for pipe, loading trucks, digging rock.....). However, for a small contractor, I think such an attachment may be like adding labor without the associated costs. The operator can just "do it" instead of stopping to communicate his/her need or wait for another machine. There would be less site conjestion due to fewer machines on site, etc. The down side would be that if the tiltrotator's base machine goes down..... :Banghead:ban

I only know of Robotec in the logging industry. I see the tiltrotator as the natural extension of the rotating grapple. I can just picture myself running one all day long wishing the thing would tilt so I can grab stuff easier! :drinkup

[RoadDoc]

Hi, we started off on a 210 and that unit was on a "demo", after a two weeks the operator said that everything that the engcon sales rep said was true, "the only thing that holds me back is my own imagination". This guy was in his late 60's so we where all a bit surprised.... The second unit we had i think was on a 5 tonner working with a tarmac gang finishing off. kerbs and stuff. ideal!. After that it has just become a standard.
As i am from the north we have quite a short season, smaller machines and most jobs stops in 1st of Dec and starts again inMarch-Aprlil depending on where you are in the country, north or South.
Regarding the price of the machine i must admit that it sounds like an awful lut of money but if you have a closer look it is not too bad
1.Quick coupler is included i the price (3000?)
2.No need for a "tilting bucket" (3500?)
3.if youre using a grab or something that requires a rotation, its there already

Thanks for the information, Sweden. I guess the added cost is absorbed by the market because eveyone is in the same boat. Like you said, everyone pretty much has to have one. The construction season is the same across the board. Once you have the attachments and the tiltrotator, you can move them from old machines to new machines as time goes on. Are the tiltrotators hard/expensive to rebuild? Have you used any of the attachments made by engcon? Looks like they are trying to market a complete package to new buyers.

[Sweden]

Hi im away on a w/e in france, nice place NICE...
Lots of liebherr machines and mecalac's.
Answering your question we spent 500$ after 6000 hours so its not too bad, i guess it waries depending on what kind of job you do. we have max 10 hours on a breaker a week. The attachment is quite new to engcon but our buckets are Engcon buckets and the shape and the steel quality is absolutley what we have been looking for. We use a scandinavian coupler system called S-60 so we share all attachments between all machines and you have to hide the bucket otherwise it is nicked by some other driver.

[Patty Farmer]

Hi this is my first post on here am i right in thinking that this attachment means your bucket spins all the way around

[RoadDoc]

Hi this is my first post on here am i right in thinking that this attachment means your bucket spins all the way around

Correct. The bucket spins 360 and tilts 40 to 45 degrees depending upon the manufacturer. They come with hydraulic quick couplers and auxillary hydraulic couplers as well.:notworthy

There should be a link to a manufacturer's site in the first posting.

[Sweden]

Hi this is my first post on here am i right in thinking that this attachment means your bucket spins all the way around

You should be able to see them at SED, thats a plant show in UK. take place in a couple of weeks. Normally they have a demoarea.

[Patty Farmer]

Dosnt the machine already spin 360 hence the name 360 excavator ?????

[RoadDoc]

Dosnt the machine already spin 360 hence the name 360 excavator ?????


Hopefully this clip will help show exactly what we are talking about. :usa

http://staus.phosworks.se/ShowMovie/?id=0a911725-357d-45a0-9ef4-6270a324c892

[cps]

Well after watching that all i can say is' Who Would NOT want one of these!

[blueman]

I'm most familiar with the Rototilt in the US but it seems Engcon is getting aggressive too. Very descriptive video.
You would be surprised how many are already working in North America: major road contractors, railroad, utility, grading, governmental, you name it.
I understand they're sized up to about 29t excavator class and most popular in Scandanavia as mentioned already. In the US they're usually matched with wheeled excavators in the US, often used to replace old Gradalls. The video shows how effective they can be for road finishing - spreading and grading gravel around new curbs and manholes before asphalt is laid.
They are a lot of $$ but as someone said they typically include a quick coupler which is often overlooked.

[RoadDoc]

Thanks for your imput blueman. I've seen some Volvo literature about a utility contractor in Texas that bought one for cleanup/restoration. Have you seen it?

[them1677]

I saw a wheeled excavator in Atlanta with a quick coupler and a tilting ditching bucket. I am not sure if it is what your looking for. I found this on youtube. Sorry it's in German but it looks like what your looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_OPBwQ-1eM

[RoadDoc]

Thanks them1677. That's exactly what we've been talking about here. I had forgotten about Leibher's version. Looks like a great design. :thumbsup

There are starting to be more wheeled machines around here in the U.S. They've been around Europe for a long time. Wonder how much longer it will be until the attachments from Europe catch up here, though? I look forward to their arrival. I think those types of attachments will make some our of projects easier. :yup

I really enjoy these forums and other websites that have expanded my knowledge of how things can be done. I've learned so much from what I read here from other operators and owners of equipment. Thanks to all. Look forward to learning more. :notworthy

[eric4221]

Hello RoadDoc,
My name is Eric I am with the Liebherr dealer here in Georgia. Please give me a call when you get a chance and let us see about doing a demo on a liebherr unit with a rotator. I will look today and see what I have availble to do this. My number is 678-409-4730
Thank you
Eric

[dirthog28]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmJsytM5hdM

This is probably the best video I've seen of the 360 bucket being used, I run a excavator probably 80% of the time and will have to say this guy is awesome, there's probably 2 or 3 other videos of him on youtube.

The 360 bucket would be awesome to have, but on our jobsites they would only be needed everyonce in a while. Plus the cost of it wouldn't justive for no more than you would need. At work were lucky to have a couple mechinical thumbs and one rubber tire excavator has a quick coupler and a helac tilt attachment. I would just be happy with a helac tilt on a machine yet alone a 360 bucket. Plus our kind of work we'd destroy the 360 beatin and pullin on things.

[blueman]

Thanks for your imput blueman. I've seen some Volvo literature about a utility contractor in Texas that bought one for cleanup/restoration. Have you seen it?

RoadDoc, Yes I heard of that. Some folks in Texas used a wheeled Volvo with 2 piece boom, Rototilt and grapple to clear logjams under bridges after a hurricane.
With the extra boom the machine just stood on top of the bridge and reached under, picking the jam apart. An operator and a spotter took 2 hrs to do what a full team of manual labor and boats took 2 days. They talked about adding a camera on the boom to do without the spotter! Being street legal it could travel to the next bridge and keep going.

[RoadDoc]

Hello RoadDoc,
My name is Eric I am with the Liebherr dealer here in Georgia. Please give me a call when you get a chance and let us see about doing a demo on a liebherr unit with a rotator. I will look today and see what I have availble to do this. My number is 678-409-4730
Thank you
Eric

Thanks for the offer, Eric. Looks like I'm going to be in Kentucky for this season. I'll be sure to look you up if anything changes! :usa
That Liebherr rig looks good.

[RoadDoc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmJsytM5hdM

This is probably the best video I've seen of the 360 bucket being used, I run a excavator probably 80% of the time and will have to say this guy is awesome, there's probably 2 or 3 other videos of him on youtube.

The 360 bucket would be awesome to have, but on our jobsites they would only be needed everyonce in a while. Plus the cost of it wouldn't justive for no more than you would need. At work were lucky to have a couple mechinical thumbs and one rubber tire excavator has a quick coupler and a helac tilt attachment. I would just be happy with a helac tilt on a machine yet alone a 360 bucket. Plus our kind of work we'd destroy the 360 beatin and pullin on things.

Thanks for your input, Dirthog. Hadn't thought about how handy a tiltrotator would be for shaping. :rolleyes: Like a surgeon's blade.

I agree that not everyone is gonna need one. I'd just like to see more around. :D I know what you mean about the tilt option. It opens up a lot more opportunities to do different tasks. I was pretty excited to have one around when I did have one. Made life alot easier most times. :)

[RoadDoc]

RoadDoc, Yes I heard of that. Some folks in Texas used a wheeled Volvo with 2 piece boom, Rototilt and grapple to clear logjams under bridges after a hurricane.
With the extra boom the machine just stood on top of the bridge and reached under, picking the jam apart. An operator and a spotter took 2 hrs to do what a full team of manual labor and boats took 2 days. They talked about adding a camera on the boom to do without the spotter! Being street legal it could travel to the next bridge and keep going.

:exactly

I could seriously get into that!


The literature that I saw was about a utility contractor that was using his to do restoration after installing water lines or sewer lines... Can't remember exactly. I thought it was cool anyway, I do remember that! :cool:

[AtlasRob]

:lmao now thats innovation, you made a complete thread out of my fright :eek: (sorry quote) :D

A couple of comments I want to make.

Hendrik mentions stress on the slew which I would tend to agree with if you give the attachment to a driver ;) I feel an operator will know that a machines slew is the weakest link in getting the product ( production ) from the attachment and treat it with due regard. We all know somebody who is a bit hard on equipment and this baby is not for them :IMO

Sweden is not exaggerating about the need for a tiltrotator in his part of the world ( they did invent them though ) It is as rare to see a machine without a t/rot out there as it is to see a 10-20t exc without a quick hitch in the UK.

I plan a show visit on Thursday for a closer look as a couple of things are in the pipeline and I am getting the tiltrotator urge :D.

A major contractor has banned all semi-automatic hitches and any fully automatic hitches that dont have a seperate front pin lock as of 1st Nov 2009
QUOTE
Skanska bans semi-automatic quick hitches after worker killed
10:03 11 May 2009
By Aaron Morby

Skanska is the first UK contractor to ban all existing semi-automatic and some automatic excavator quick hitches from its sites

This decision comes after investigations into an accident on a Skanska UK site in December last year, when a bucket became detached from an excavator and struck a carpenter tragically resulting in fatal injuries.

The ban applies to semi-automatic and automatic excavator quick hitches that do not lock onto both pins of the bucket and comes into force, 1 November.

Greg Craig, managing director of Skanska UK’s civil engineering business, said: “We have decided to drive a change into our supply chain in response to a very serious issue that has plagued our industry. We hope other contractors will follow.”


Harold Sheridan, 58, was killed on the £211m Docklands Light Railway extension job after being hit on the head by a digger bucket. British Transport Police are currently investigating the case.

Skanska said it would now require all excavators fitted with automatic quick hitches to use the new generation twin locking devices. This equipment locks both the pins of the bucket.

The ban has been delayed until November to allow plant hirers time to switch to the new generation of quick hitches.

During the interim period, Skanska plans to start a proactive training programme in the safe use of existing quick hitch equipment.

END QUOTE

The first thing I want to check is if the hitch will meet this criteria as it picks up on front lugs :beatsme

AS for cost, say £12000 very fast then smile sweetly :rolleyes: the wife is not convinced,..................... I thought we were about to have another addition to the family :D ........ add on £8000 for a big chain trencher and I see the makings of a business plan :OMG

Put a set of forks on a t/rota and you can unload a truck while sat beside it with a duck or tracked exc.

[dayexco]

in my 43 yrs of having my fat arse sitting on the seat of an excavator...i think i could count on 2 hands how many times in my particular instance...one of those would be beneficial. i'm not above buying technology, i have most of the toys....i guess in the one part of the pic, i don't want a $160k excavator backfilling a foundation wall, i'll put a $20k skiddy doing that, have the excavator out doing what it does best...hogging dirt.

[RoadDoc]

dayexco:

Thank you for your perspective. I can certainly appreciate where you are coming from. These types of attachments aren't going to be for everyone. I've been on many jobs where it is all the hoe can do to keep the crew productive by just digging trench every minute of every day, year in and year out. Some contractors have earned their way into that kind of steady market. Why spend a dime more than what you precisely need to accomplish that task? No reason whatsoever. Size the machine to the task, get the one that's gonna have the lowest operating expense over its lifetime with a good resale value at the end, find someone to take care of it during that time and start making money. :D

[RoadDoc]

:lmao now thats innovation, you made a complete thread out of my fright :eek: (sorry quote) :D

Thanks for sharing, AtlasRob. :o

I plan a show visit on Thursday for a closer look as a couple of things are in the pipeline and I am getting the tiltrotator urge :D.

:popcorn Pictures Please!


AS for cost, say £12000 very fast then smile sweetly :rolleyes: the wife is not convinced,..................... I thought we were about to have another addition to the family

:jerry

........ add on £8000 for a big chain trencher and I see the makings of a business plan :OMG

Please provide transcript, in detail, so that I may consider same approach/technique........ Do include all required promises, gifts, bribes, number of hours spent on knees, tears shed/not shed, vacations, jewelry, additional chores, hobbies sacraficed, new decor purchased, inlaws moving in, etc.,etc...... :notworthy

Thanks a bunch for your contribution!

[Eddiebackblade]

Thanks for posting that info on the first official 'Hitch Ban' Rob, I personally think the Dam will now burst and there will soon be a blanket ban on them coming directly from the HSE.
I like yourself am torn with the whole Hitch/Tiltrotator issue, having a semi automatic Hitch on my Hitachi and requiring a tilt bucket for type of work I do.
I would have normally opted for the new Miller 'Twinlock' as I feel this will become the most popular hitch in the UK, and have a custom Tilt bucket manufactured for something in the £1,800 to £2100 region. I will also have to add an auxiliary pedal and have appropriate lines or convert the breaker pipe to two way.
However when added up you are a good way into that Tiltrotator price and the added versatility it will bring.
I have worked many shifts on hire to the now departed Wrekin construction, and they had many machines equipped with the Engcon system.
To be honest they are simply awesome, and with an interested operator can perform tasks you can hardly imagine.
You don't want to be on the same road job spreading soil with a straight blade as one of these!
Having viewed your pics and website Rob I don't have any doubts that you are exactly the type of operator these things are made for.
I know things are tough at the moment, but I can't see many gangs wanting to let you go if you turn up with the 'Jingle Jangle' bucket and start carving a few turns for them.

[RoadDoc]

You don't want to be on the same road job spreading soil with a straight blade as one of these!
Having viewed your pics and website Rob I don't have any doubts that you are exactly the type of operator these things are made for.
I know things are tough at the moment, but I can't see many gangs wanting to let you go if you turn up with the 'Jingle Jangle' bucket and start carving a few turns for them.

:iagree:yup:exactly:naughty

Gotta do it, Rob!

[AtlasRob]

Thanks for the kind words boys,......I'm sure I can feel a rather large hand in the middle of my back that seems to be pushing me towards that funny rotating tilty thing :D ( cant keep saying Engcon- other makes are available :) )

I had a very imformative and educational conversation with a couple of very experienced guys on the stand at the plant show today.

The question still to be answered will be whether this hitch will fall under the ban by Skanska that, as Eddie, (and I agree) quite rightly predicts is likely to lead other contractors down the same path.
It will be intresting as this manufacturer has just made a big fanfare ( and I dont blame them) having been passed and accepted by the rail industry which is one of the most rigerous testing and inspection regimes that I am aware of.
They are confident and reckon that a visit from Skanska persons yesterday went very well.

Education :notworthy

There are a couple of ways to do this.
1) pin the rotator to the machine, and have any spec Quick hitch under it that you require. So I could have a hitch to pick up my existing buckets if I wanted.
2) Have a Engcon fully auto hyd hitch on the machine that can then pick up a rotator. The rotator can have any spec hitch you require but common sense says you would have the same as the one on top. Having changed or altered your buckets you go to work :cool2 Using a breaker with the rotator is fine for short periods but its suggested that if you have a couple of hours or more to do its better to drop the rotator off, which makes perfect sense to me.

Having a hitch on the machine allows you the option to not use the rotator if for example you have a couple of days breaker work or if you have a couple of machines you can share the rotator between the two machines whilst the other machine still has use of all its buckets, breaker,grab etc etc.

My first question was what stops you flicking the wrong switch ( 2 in the cab ) and releasing the top hitch by mistake ( brain fart ) and ripping all the pipework and electrics off.
Answer, having picked up the rotator you connect the pipes and as soon as you plug the electrics in it cuts out the top hitch.

How many sets of pipes do I need? obviously at least 4 = 2 Q hitches + rotate + swivel :nono

1 set for the top Q hitch ( normal) + 1 set for the rest :confused:
The electrics operate a valve block within the rotator that can provide up to 6....... YES.. 6 operations one of which would be your quick hitch. :notworthy

OK, so now I need new joysticks as rollers are the best way to get true operation :nono

Look at this,

40735

These are clipped onto the original levers which in turn connect to a contol box installed in the cab which is then wired to a plug on the dipper arm to plug the rotator into. :notworthy

40736

I had the chance ( was cajouled ) into the seat of the demo Volvo 140 but I refused to play....... I didnt trust myself........... I was sat on a card with enough credit facility on it to have bought one there and then,......... I just didnt trust myself to play .....:tong ........I said it wasnt fair as I had to get back on the duck tomorrow with buttons to control an oscillating bucket.

Sorry guys,....... I bottled it

on edit, there is no cost difference between option 1 or 2.

[RoadDoc]

Sorry guys,....... I bottled it





:nono


You didn't bottle it at all. You are merely making a wise choice to see how the hitch ban plays out. :rolleyes:

When the time is precisely right......:bash

You got em right were you want em! :D

[blueman]

AtlasRob,
Nice picture of the dial-style joystick controls. Aftermarket is fine but I know you can get proportional/rocker switches from the Volvo factory now (presumably others too). As far as your 1 vs 2 pin-on the rotating tilty thingy on the arm or have another coupler on top of it: I don't know Engcon so well but the Rototilt/Indexator version has the same coupler geometry as Volvo's S couplers. I kinda assume it'd be the same for other scandinavian supplies.
So you can get the drop the tilty thingy for the odd hammer work or if it becomes dead weight for some odd jobs.

[AtlasRob]

Aftermarket is fine but I know you can get proportional/rocker switches from the Volvo factory now (presumably others too). .......... I don't know Engcon so well but the Rototilt/Indexator version has the same coupler geometry as Volvo's S couplers. ............

Thanks for the info. I half suspected that rollers were available in some sticks now, just a case of if and how much :D

I am not conversant with the Volvo "S" coupler but I do believe that the Scandanavian countries got together and all work to a standard set of width and pin centres for thier hitch and attachments based on pin diameter,....... now why the hell cant the rest of the manufacturers put thier heads together and work to one standard :beatsme

[blueman]

AtlasRob,
I understood Volvo S coupler geometries are the basis for the new Scandinavian standards and that's why Rototilt uses them. . . so hey, I'm all for the rest of the world following such enlightened folks . . . !

[Eddiebackblade]

In a similar dilema to you Rob, had a long hard look at SED and asked the question about the Engcon hitch not holding onto the front bucket pin in the event of a bucket not being fully connected.
The replies were varied, but all conceded that it is a scenario that the current hitch is not prepared for.
However I would be willing to go for it with the current system as the advantages far outweigh any negative aspects of the system.
The main problem for me is the Zaxis only has a basic Hammer pipe circuit with an electric type pedal and no additional buttons on the levers.
I would probably need new levers with the proportional controls at considerable cost I assume!
I too had a go in the Volvo 140 on the stand and it really was incredible, excellent control and very logical to use.
Engcon have been most helpful, and the company with the demo Volvo at SED are the same company who are going to do my LGP conversion.
If I can find some realistic finance then my plan is to have the track frame conversion done along with the fitting of the Engcon at the same time.
I would run with the standard tracks as the machine will only be a little wider, until I need the LGP chains and pads.
I have a booking for August for the LGP set up, but figure the Tiltrotator will benefit me every time I use the machine so should come first.
I'm really struggling to justify having one fitted and how the thing is going to pay?
However I still do this job because there is nothing like standing on the end of the track and thinking that's a bloody good job! (I know self praise is No praise!) but we all feel a certain satisfaction of leaving a tidy job.
I just think the Tiltrotator will push me to the next level.

[Sweden]

Correct. The bucket spins 360 and tilts 40 to 45 degrees depending upon the manufacturer. They come with hydraulic quick couplers and auxillary hydraulic couplers as well.:notworthy

There should be a link to a manufacturer's site in the first posting.

Hi, i have been working away and have not had any internet(middle of nowhere)
However i had a chat with some guys at engcon. I met them at a construction show i Stockholm www.maskinexpo.se
Obviously they have a demo in Salt-Lake city at some point in June, and their only dealer is based in California called Digpro.
If you are interested in a demo on your machine you should contact a guy from my hometown. He is based in UK most of the time but has a position as international sales or some other title. His background is construction and he's a very expirienced operator as well. hes name is daniel and his details are on engcon's website.
I am on a Doosan machine for the first time in my life and i quite like the machine,3m dipper, high spec with reverse camera and everything..

[ZTS Plant]

Hi guys, i have just bumped into your forum by accident and was surprised by the interest in Engcon tiltrotators. I have 5 of the things and would buy nothing else!! I bought my first in 2004 and have just traded it in against a new one, I got 70% off the new one with the trade in!!!! These things hold their value!! Have you tried to buy a 2nd hand one? I can tell you it is virtually impossible! I tried to get one as I have just bought another JZ140. The Engcon is an essential piece of kit on this machine in my opinion.

The only advice I could give the guys who are pondering is to get one and if it doesn't work out or the almighty Skanska, that you all seem to worry about, has a problem with it, sell the thing! If you buy it right in the first place like I did off the men in Scotland you will sell it in a heart beat.

In todays hire market you need something to set you out from the crowd, this is the tool that has done it for me! Good Luck Lads!

[Sweden]

It seems that you guys are already "engconized", so please tell me why arent the consept taking off like it has in Scandinavia.

[AtlasRob]

It seems that you guys are already "engconized", so please tell me why arent the consept taking off like it has in Scandinavia.

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ :D


My problem and I believe the same for a few of us considering the tilty thing ;) is getting paid for it.

I am well aware that in Scandinavia to arrive on site without one would be like arriving on site here with a 13t exc and only one bucket and that was pinned on, no Q hitch :D

If I did my own contract work I would have bought one 5yrs ago. As I only do hire work the tilty thing would make me stand out ONCE I was on site, the problem is competing against the hire companies that put machines out on hire at silly rates just to keep them working.
The works managers and forman want us owner operators but the penpushers want to know why we are a few pounds an hour dearer. Now add the cost of a tilty thing and we are not competetive.
Everybody loves my oscillating bucket, but try and get the buggers to pay extra for it :Banghead

On a different note. Its a small world, Daniel S was one of the folk I met at the UK show.

On edit, Welcome aboard ZTS great to have your input.

[ZTS Plant]

Hi Rob,
the first time I bought one of these things I took a leap of faith I must admit, not saying you should, but now I get the work where I don't have to compete with the rest of the guys operating 13t machines for £18 to £20 per hour!!

It will get to the stage when you get one (I say WHEN not IF!, because like the nordic regions it will happen!) that others will have to follow your lead. If they are following you they are always one step behind you! (As my mother used to say)

Cheers,

James.

[ZTS Plant]

P.S.

I have met that guy Daniel that you have met at the UK show. Nice guy!

[Sweden]

You are right AtlasRob, as we have our own jobs on our own sites the time/material savings are money in our pocket. The other side when we work on hours is more difficult... I have to admit that we got the extra Kronor in the beginning but today it is just impossible.
. (so i am glad we where among the first with tiltrotators) Today the biggest financial reason for the investment is the fact that on hourly jobs youre always fist in and last machine out.. a couple of extra attachments like forks, blades etc doesnt cost much in relation to the extra hours you get.
We need that to survive through the winter, my machine is parked up from December until March.

[Eddiebackblade]

Had my quotes back for the Zaxis 160 to fit the full proportional set up, complete with the hydraulic hitch top and bottom of the rotator and the all important Engon grading bucket, not forgetting converting my 3 other buckets.
I know the currency situation, but it was certainly a shock!:eek::eek::eek:
The Zaxis 160 falls between the EC15 and EC20 models, but as it is fitted with a medium dipper and 20 tonne quick hitch already I would have thought it would require the EC20 model at an additional cost.
I also priced an EC10 to fit an 8 tonner and this seemed very expensive.
However I am still convinced it is the way to go for me personally, and it is very useful to hear from actual users like ZTS. (Welcome ZTS your input is much valued:thumbsup)

Just a thought, why do we not see the 'Steelwrist' version of Tiltrotator over here?
I have checked their website and they claim more tilt angle than Engcon etc etc, however the bit that made me take note was their claim to have been adopted by Volvo in the Scandanavian region as preferred fitment.
I would have thought this was a pretty solid endorsement in the spiritual home of the Tiltrotator.
Are they any good/best? or are Engcon blessed with a much larger marketing budget for an inferior product?

[AtlasRob]

..... I have to admit that we got the extra Kronor in the beginning but today it is just impossible.
.......Today the biggest financial reason for the investment is the fact that on hourly jobs youre always fist in and last machine out.. a couple of extra attachments like forks, blades etc doesnt cost much in relation to the extra hours you get.


I can see the logic in getting in early, as you say its the norm for you now, everybody has to have one so its a level playing field again. ( in theory anyway )
I agree 100% on having the right extras, the best investment I made was my block grab. The extra hours I got through the winter placing packs of kerbs and path edgings more than paid for it.
It makes a change to have made a correct decision :D

Had my quotes back for the Zaxis 160 ............
I know the currency situation, but it was certainly a shock!:eek::eek::eek:
The Zaxis 160 falls between the EC15 and EC20 models, ........
Just a thought, why do we not see the 'Steelwrist' version of Tiltrotator over here?
.......the bit that made me take note was their claim to have been adopted by Volvo in the Scandanavian region as preferred fitment.
I would have thought this was a pretty solid endorsement in the spiritual home of the Tiltrotator.


I know how you feel, EC15 or EC20 ? I have the same problem but will go with the 20, the extra is small for the peace of mind. I am not the most gentle with a machines. :(

Thats an intresting question you raise over Volvo. I would take it rather like Miller with supplying Cat with the bug. Somebody struck a bloody good deal I suspect ;) .
My opinion of Miller ................. not worth printing. :Banghead

[Sweden]

Had my quotes back for the Zaxis 160 to fit the full proportional set up, complete with the hydraulic hitch top and bottom of the rotator and the all important Engon grading bucket, not forgetting converting my 3 other buckets.
I know the currency situation, but it was certainly a shock!:eek::eek::eek:
The Zaxis 160 falls between the EC15 and EC20 models, but as it is fitted with a medium dipper and 20 tonne quick hitch already I would have thought it would require the EC20 model at an additional cost.
I also priced an EC10 to fit an 8 tonner and this seemed very expensive.
However I am still convinced it is the way to go for me personally, and it is very useful to hear from actual users like ZTS. (Welcome ZTS your input is much valued:thumbsup)

Just a thought, why do we not see the 'Steelwrist' version of Tiltrotator over here?
I have checked their website and they claim more tilt angle than Engcon etc etc, however the bit that made me take note was their claim to have been adopted by Volvo in the Scandanavian region as preferred fitment.
I would have thought this was a pretty solid endorsement in the spiritual home of the Tiltrotator.
Are they any good/best? or are Engcon blessed with a much larger marketing budget for an inferior product?


We had a look at the steelwrist and that was in the early days when they where just launched, interesting concept i must say. At that point they had a huge advert in a construction magazine but no physicall products...
It is of course different today, Steelwrist is getting more accepted but the rumor says that the last change was that Volvo went in with some financial support to save them go under. I guess it is important for the manufacturers and customers to have some competition.
Still i have my doubts on the new upcomers, not only because we have Engcon's, The company itself is familyowned and we dont mind paying the extra percent that might cost, they are here to stay and the way they handle warrant issues and stuff is just fantastic. I am not sure but i can not find a UK service place for the Steelwrist?

[ZTS Plant]

Just had a look at the Steelwrist website, looks good but I think I will be sticking to what I have! They dont seem to have a dealer in the UK (nothing listed).

I had an accident with a machine last year and the dealer here in Scotland took a ram from his demo machine and fitted it for me on a Sunday at a standard price! Got to my job first thing Monday morning!! Priceless service! Thats why I will be sticking to what I have.

[AtlasRob]

. Priceless service! Thats why I will be sticking to what I have.

You cant argue with that :thumbsup

[Eddiebackblade]

Nice to hear of some real old fashioned service from a dealer, it's all too rare these days and I'm certain it will have you going back time and again.
ZTS could I ask is the dealer JCC? as this is who I'm hoping to use to supply and fit mine.

Had to laugh at those guys sending out 13tonne machines for £18 to £20per hour, they are seriously overcharging:beatsme
We have a joker with a Daewoo 140 who is keeping the local Farmers very happy at £14.50 per hour :eek:if they supply the diesel:beatsme.

[joispoi]

Nice to hear of some real old fashioned service from a dealer, it's all too rare these days and I'm certain it will have you going back time and again.
ZTS could I ask is the dealer JCC? as this is who I'm hoping to use to supply and fit mine.

Had to laugh at those guys sending out 13tonne machines for £18 to £20per hour, they are seriously overcharging:beatsme
We have a joker with a Daewoo 140 who is keeping the local Farmers very happy at £14.50 per hour :eek:if they supply the diesel:beatsme.


They´ll keep that up until they need repairs. I can´t see much money being set aside for routine maintenance at those rates.

[ZTS Plant]

It's a small world Eddie, I got a phone call from Oliver at JCC today to ask what was going on on the internet ;) You got to keep these guys on their toes!! I believe you spoke to him at some stage today. He's a good lad and I buy all my stuff from him! Always push him for a bit of a deal, he is good for it! The installations that these guys do are really good! They always leave a machine as if they haven't been there.

On the subject of machine rates, sometimes you wonder why these guys are putting machines out for the money they are! Sometimes you can be a busy fool!!! :Banghead

[Hendrik]

Considering that in the UK a pound is equivalent to a dollar here (or in other words a pint of beer costs 4-5 quid over there and 4-5 dollars here) they cannot be making money charging 18-20/hour. That's barely operators wages. At first I automatically converted it back to Oz dollars and thought 40 dollars/hour is a bit low for a bigger type of machine but could be managed if...........but then I remembered from my visit to the UK that things are priced accordingly. How much is the price of Diesel there at the moment?

[AtlasRob]

........... they cannot be making money charging 18-20/hour. That's barely operators wages. ................. How much is the price of Diesel there at the moment?

Too right they are not making any money, putting machines out at silly rates only drags the market down lower. Its always been a problem here that the industry is its own worst enemy in that respect :Banghead

As for the price of fuel :beatsme luckly I dont have to buy it, the contractor supplies ;).
White derv ( highway use ) is over a £1.06 litre but red diesel for plant use will be a lot cheaper.

[Hendrik]

Too right they are not making any money, putting machines out at silly rates only drags the market down lower. Its always been a problem here that the industry is its own worst enemy in that respect :Banghead
I was going to say having people coming into an industry who are only interested in making a quick buck (or quid) is bad for the industry but it don't look like they are in it for the money.
Which makes me wonder what exactly they are up to? I am no business man but know enough to know that you have to make a reasonable profit to survive and a good profit to grow a business.
Barely breaking even doesn't cut it, what happens if a engine blows up or an hydraulic pump grenades?
I guess it happens that a large company is willing to take a short term loss on operations to force their competitors to shut up shop, is this the case here or are there just too many small operators fighting over a small pie?
Anyway I figure sub standard rates will lead to sub standard work and safety issues.

[AtlasRob]

...............
Barely breaking even doesn't cut it, what happens if a engine blows up or an hydraulic pump grenades?
I guess it happens that a large company is willing to take a short term loss on operations to force their competitors to shut up shop, is this the case here or are there just too many small operators fighting over a small pie?


I feel the problem at the moment stems from the people/companies that went mad buying plant when times were good, they now have an abundace of plant sitting doing nothing. As a result folk panic as repayments still have to be made so they put the machines out to earn anything they can in order to make those repayments without a thought to the wear and tear that the machine is incurring.

As I remarked to a friend who runs around 20 pieces of assorted plant, its easy for me to preach about rates etc, etc but I have only myself and one machine to keep, not twenty and a dozen or so operators whos families all need jobs.
He is now competing for work with those people that just want thier machines out of the yard :Banghead

[RoadDoc]

Sounds like desperation or ignorance.....:Pointhead

If I was completely out of work, I would do a very small job (i.e. a day's work) for a rediculus price if I thought I could get more work out of the company once they saw what I could do.:D

It never worked out very well. :Banghead

[AtlasRob]

Sounds like desperation or ignorance.....:Pointhead

It never worked out very well. :Banghead

Good to hear from you RoadDoc, thought maybe you opened up this can of worms then sat back and smiled :D

[Eddiebackblade]

I really despair at people charging these crazy rates, but if it gets them through the current crisis whilst providing for them and their dependants then best of luck to them.
Back to the Engon and trying to shave a few pounds off the deal, what does anyone think about direct mounting the unit as opposed to having a quick hitch at the top and bottom.
Do users actually remove the unit often? and what are the usual reasons?
I guess fitting a hammer for a long period or particularily heavy digging would be a couple, but what else would you remove the tiltrotator for or do you leave it on all the time?

[ZTS Plant]

Sounds like desperation or ignorance.....:Pointhead

If I was completely out of work, I would do a very small job (i.e. a day's work) for a rediculus price if I thought I could get more work out of the company once they saw what I could do.:D

It never worked out very well. :Banghead

I had a guy who tried this on me only 3 weeks ago!!!!! He came onto site £6.50 an hour below me!!!:beatsme I off hired my machine and left it on site, he lasted two days on the job, they begged me to come back! So it was time for a little renegotiation and I got an extra pound an hour and a two day standing rate!! It was cheaper for them than paying the transport off site and transport back! Everyone's a winner!!! The driver was only to happy to cut silage for two days. It's been a long job!!:rolleyes: It's always handy to work out what it would cost them before you go into a meeting like this because they will have!!!!

[ZTS Plant]

I really despair at people charging these crazy rates, but if it gets them through the current crisis whilst providing for them and their dependants then best of luck to them.
Back to the Engon and trying to shave a few pounds off the deal, what does anyone think about direct mounting the unit as opposed to having a quick hitch at the top and bottom.
Do users actually remove the unit often? and what are the usual reasons?
I guess fitting a hammer for a long period or particularily heavy digging would be a couple, but what else would you remove the tiltrotator for or do you leave it on all the time?

Eddie I've had both direct mount and Quick hitch options and quickly realised quick hitch was the way to go! If you are on a heavy dig you don't want the engcon on! You don't want it on when you have a hammer on either! If you check the price of both you will find there is very little price between the two! Also if you go to change the tiltrotator you only change the unit not the quick hitch or the buckets! Plus the direct mount is only made for your machine and no other, eg: a direct mount engcon for a volvo 140 will not fit a js130 - so if you try to resell the engcon you need a volvo 140 customer - cuts your market down drasticly! I also have two machines that have the same quick hitch and both are installed for engcon, I can share the tiltrotator between the two machines - I hope this makes sense!:)

[Hendrik]

If I was completely out of work, I would do a very small job (i.e. a day's work) for a rediculus price if I thought I could get more work out of the company once they saw what I could do.:D

It never worked out very well. :Banghead
The problem with that is that if you come out for a ridicules price then the company will expect you to work for that sort of money every time. I suppose you can try and tell them that it was a special introductory price but..........

[RoadDoc]

The problem with that is that if you come out for a ridicules price then the company will expect you to work for that sort of money every time. I suppose you can try and tell them that it was a special introductory price but..........

I was always sure they knew my regular rates before I agreed to cut my own throat. :o

I only did it with a couple of large companies that, if it worked out, I would have been set with work for several years at the minimum, I thought. As it turned out, they were happy with my business model and the quality of my work. I just didn't have access to enough capital to "run with the big dogs." I was too small for the majority of the jobs they offered me and they stopped calling....:ban It just wasn't meant to be at the time.

Having looked back at those incidents, I realize I was desperate. I had my first new machine (complete with a healthy payment every month) and the market had just bottomed out after 9-11-01. I had lost my biggest and best paying customer the following Jan. He went from building 33 homes a month every month for years to zero by Christmas. I took delivery of my new payment the week before the tragedy.... Ended up augering in hard. :Pointhead Still digging my way out.

Times right now feel a lot like then, gentlemen. Again, I have the deepest respect for those of you who are still managing to get it done every day. You give me hope. :notworthy

[RoadDoc]

Eddie:

Eddie I've had both direct mount and Quick hitch options and quickly realised quick hitch was the way to go! If you are on a heavy dig you don't want the engcon on! You don't want it on when you have a hammer on either! If you check the price of both you will find there is very little price between the two! Also if you go to change the tiltrotator you only change the unit not the quick hitch or the buckets! Plus the direct mount is only made for your machine and no other, eg: a direct mount engcon for a volvo 140 will not fit a js130 - so if you try to resell the engcon you need a volvo 140 customer - cuts your market down drasticly! I also have two machines that have the same quick hitch and both are installed for engcon, I can share the tiltrotator between the two machines - I hope this makes sense!:)

If was my money, ZTS is making a lot of sense.....:my2c

[RoadDoc]

Good to hear from you RoadDoc, thought maybe you opened up this can of worms then sat back and smiled :D

:D

:popcorn:popcorn:popcorn

:exactly, :cool2

[RoadDoc]

Gentlemen:

After badgering the great one... :notworthy(AltlasRob, of course):notworthy I have been promised pictures of his current projects if I would merely request said pictures in one of my threads....... :D Let me do my best.... ;)

:eek: !AtlasRob!, Sir. Please hijack my thread! I want some bloody pictures, I want them now. :eek:

Please and Thank You and all of that Polite Stuff........:cool2

[AtlasRob]

Please hijack my thread! I want some bloody pictures, I want them now.


:lmao :falldownlaugh

That wasnt the deal at all :D I did say that I must do a thread for the contract I am now on but it was difficult to know where to put it as its got ADT's, dozer, cranes, hiab the 953 and ME ;) ........but I'll sort something out.

What I need to confess is I have ordered a Geith "Claw" fully auto hitch for the duck to replace my semi auto Miller hitch. £2100 :mad:

Initially I was told that the contractor I am on hire to had banned the semi hitches 3 months ago :eek: nobody else could confirm this but the contract safety bod was adamant and wanted me off site, this information turned out to be incorrect and I have spent money that could have bought me more beer :Banghead

The tilty makers still cannot get clarification from the 2 main contractors in the UK that have banned semi and 1st generation fully automatic hitches,
( Skanska from 1st Nov 2009 and Bovis Lend Lease from 1st Jan 2010 ) as to whether this will include them, if the manufacturers cant get clarification what in hells name chance do I stand of getting a straight answer :beatsme

In this situation I have gone with the Geith as I can see it becoming the norm by the end of next year anyway. In the mean time if the hire for a chain trencher and a tilty to mount it on becomes a reality I can review the situation at that time.

The new hitch actually arrived last week and I thought I would get away with a quick changeover but no chance. :bash
Miller use a 4 port metric threaded valve and Geith use a 5 port imperial threaded valve so all the pipework is going to have to be changed and another T fitted. Not a disaster but not a midweek afterwork evening job either. This weekend was already allocated and next weekend is also a bit busy at the moment so it will have to wait.

I could send it back I suppose and tell um it was all a mistake :D

OK, as you asked nicely heres a pic or three

45187

You want 6 cu metres of concrete in there, Jeez its a duck not a ruddy tower crane.

45188

Do what you gotta do, just get it in there.
Lucky we have some big crane mats on site so I built myself a platform.
With the bucket kept on and the longer chains I could just about get enough reach to save the use of wheelbarrows.

Being UK it rained just as I started to climb up which added to the fun.

There are 4 mats, one lengthways at the bottom then two crossover on top and on to the batter and the forth to give me a step.
I could not bench the batter as somebody buried a load of comms ducts and drainage pipework in there just last week.......... who?........... ME of course.

45189

From a distance for perspective, or reflective or what ever * tive.
45190

[RoadDoc]

:D You are ever the gentleman, sir. Thank you for the pics, they're great. :notworthy

Crane mats... always handy to have around. Owners complain about the cost and trouble to move them around but, when you need one.... Nice thing about being in your position, since they know your skill and trust you to be able to "make it happen", they actually let you do things to make the job easier and more efficient for them. Thus, you get to stretch you brain cells and skills a bit. Probably makes the job a little more interesting. Lucky devil ;)

You said this was the project compound? Is all of that office space or sleeping quarters or what. Must be a really big job coming up! Nice work.

How about starting that thread in the general industry section. Kind of a state of the work that's out there sort of thing... Just a thought. Would be easier for you and keep the line of thought from fragmenting.

Thanks again, and don't think these few pictures will satisfy. Keep 'em coming, boss! :usa

[AtlasRob]

Thanks again, and don't think these few pictures will satisfy. Keep 'em coming, boss!

No prob Doc :D man I wish I had thought of that handle and signature they makes me smile every time I think about them.

I remembered a thread from last year so have started to update that.

If it gets out of hand / boring /OTT ( over the top) somebody give me a slap :ban

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=173666#post173666

[Goebbels]

Hi there folks!

I'm a newbie on the forum and since wanted to (test) post a reply to this thread as it's close to things in my everyday work.

Here in Finland we have almost the same situation with rotators as in Sweden - Nearly every contractor have them and it's not easy to get to the site without.

I've been using them last six years and couldn't live without anymore.

As you can see in the picture, they fit nicely even to machines in 250-300 class and even transportation height becomes lower with one on compared to pin-on-bucket...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2108950&l=89de223bbe&id=613199411

[RoadDoc]

Welcome to the forum, Goebbels! :usa

Thanks for the picture. That is really impressive. Do you have to be careful when using a machine with that much power or does the tiltrotator have the strength to take the strain?

[JDOFMEMI]

Well, that would attract some looks around here while going down the road.

Looks like a pretty neat thing to have for site work and utility work.

Don't see much reason for it in mass excavation though.

[Goebbels]

Do you have to be careful when using a machine with that much power or does the tiltrotator have the strength to take the strain?

The tiltrotator can take quite a lot of strain, but still you have to be careful and keep in mind what you are doing with it. None of the three t/rots i've mainly been using last years has broke up mechanically. There's been some oil leaks and normal wearing out but nothing dramatically. I've seen a Rototilt torn to two pieces some times though.

Still the rot's not any good on mass excavating or hammer purposes, i remove mine always before doing such. Otherwise it's mostly a matter of your imagination to figure out jobs you can do with t/rot - so remember to order them with a QC.

[AtlasRob]

You said this was the project compound? Is all of that office space or sleeping quarters or what. Must be a really big job



Hi Doc, yes this is only the compound, the offices are as stated with a caravan site for the rifraff :D

The H of the offices has 17 units each side with 6 in the middle plus 2 in a corner whiich are the canteen. Then there is an 8 unit visitor/education centre, 6 unit welfare block and a 3 unit stores. Grand total of 59 :beatsme

The tiltrotator can take quite a lot of strain, but still you have to be careful and keep in mind what you are doing with it. None of the three t/rots i've mainly been using last years has broke up mechanically. There's been some oil leaks and normal wearing out but nothing dramatically. I've seen a Rototilt torn to two pieces some times though.


Great info and a wicked picture :notworthy, welcome aboard. :drinkup

[ZX330]

I just recently saw one up close for the first time at a demonstration, I was impressed. Only when you see it in action can you truely realize it's potential. There is no doubt in my mind I can save time, money, labor cost, etc...

YouTube - engconDigPro SLC material placement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Afb9y2588)

Anybody have a tiltrotator?

YouTube - engconDigPro SLC material placement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Afb9y2588) I'm sure there are others out there besides this brand... Just an example.

Do you like it?

Does it make you more money?

Does it save labor cost / speed up production?



I think it would be really great to have one of these attachments. But, as AtlasRob has clearly demonstrated in this quote, the things are extremely expensive....:eek: I'm sure the cost will mitigate in time with competition and market growth, however, they are rather complex and will probably always be somewhat expensive.

From my web surfing, I see tiltrotators have really become a necessity to compete in some European markets. What I have seen also indicates that they would have their place with anyone working on a restrictive utility job or urban site. Looks awesome when working around existing utilities!

I know things work different in Europe than here in the U.S. I don't know much about their labor laws. I have gathered from people with experience in other industries there that it is a little more regulated or stringent. That may justify the cost of such a flexible and expensive attachment, I don't know. :beatsme

I can't speak for AtlasRob but, I recall him mentioning it is hard to get customers in his market to pay extra for more flexible attachments in the plant hire business. I feel safe in assuming the same would be even more true here in the U.S. In my opinion, we tend to have more room to work and the jobs tend to be larger in size and scope.

What I do see is that contracts (at least in federal highway maintenance work) are being written with ever shorter work windows and larger penalties for not getting off the road in time. Not to mention the A + B bids that I am seeing more of where your hard bid has a time element that attaches bonus / penalty factors to the contract based on the number of days you say it will take to complete the work. Lettings are so eratic now that a contractor must be very flexible as to the type of work he does if he wants to have work to bid on at all. For example, Georgia has only four or five jobs in this month's D.O.T. letting (normally many more than that). Kentucky canceled one of its lettings this year.

Things are changing fast for the smaller contractors. Instead of focusing on only grading/pipe a contractor may by necessity have to look at demo., landscaping or clearing to stay in business this quarter. I can see a need for the flexiblilty a tiltrotator could bring a smaller company that doesn't have miles of road to build or many thousands of feet of pipe to lay every day. Today he may be called upon to replace lead water service pipes in a city street and tomorrow he may have to do emergency storm debris removal.... I know everyone is already doing this to some extent. What is the cost, though? Do you make up for it with more labor? Does it make sense to have to rent different equipment for every job? Do you really want to own that many diversified pieces of equipment? If not, how do you build equity? How do you train and retrain all of that extra labor every day without losing time and money to the learning curves? Can you even find help capable of dealing with the daily changes without sacraficing safety? :Pointhead

Sorry to rant/ramble on so over an equipment attachment. :o I just have a ton of respect for you folks out there that are getting it done everyday. I don't know how you're making any money when things are changing so fast all around you. My hat's off to all of you! :notworthy You deserve the best tools to work with every day. :bash

[them1677]

I have seen these in person and they arereally great. Almost all I have seen are on tracked excavators. I know a couple of people that hve bought them and they love it. They are using a hammer and a bucket. A couple of municipalities have bought the wheeled excavator with the tilt rotator. Here are some links for youtube.

YouTube - Liebherr LIKUFIX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br3MXrL8RnQ)

YouTube - Schwenkrotator von Liebherr (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_OPBwQ-1eM)

[blueman]

In North America these show up mostly on wheeled excavators but they are starting to show up on crawlers too.
The cost is up there for sure, but don't forget they usually include a quick coupler (quickfit) on the bottom side, so you get that extra functionality for the price. Most common attachments are grading buckets, grapples and forks.

[ZX330]

In North America these show up mostly on wheeled excavators but they are starting to show up on crawlers too.
The cost is up there for sure, but don't forget they usually include a quick coupler (quickfit) on the bottom side, so you get that extra functionality for the price. Most common attachments are grading buckets, grapples and forks.

Blueman
My friend who lives and works out in New Mexico just got an engcon EC05 and Grading bucket for his Hitachi 50U tracked excavator delivered to him a couple of weeks ago. Picked it up through a local engcon delaer here in So. Cal. http://s760.photobucket.com/albums/xx247/ZX330/TLC/?albumview=slideshow

[ZX330]

In North America these show up mostly on wheeled excavators but they are starting to show up on crawlers too.
The cost is up there for sure, but don't forget they usually include a quick coupler (quickfit) on the bottom side, so you get that extra functionality for the price. Most common attachments are grading buckets, grapples and forks.

Blueman
My friend who lives and works out in New Mexico (TLC Plumbing & Utility) just got an engcon EC05 and Grading bucket for his Hitachi 50U tracked excavator delivered to him a couple of weeks ago. Picked it up through a local engcon dealer here in So. Cal.
http://s760.photobucket.com/albums/xx247/ZX330/TLC/?albumview=slideshow