What Machine?

[Tommjr]

Going to be purchasing a new 36,000 lb Excavator. Which One? Why?

Any Input?

[Dozerboy]

Welcome

Brand wise IMO 1# Deere or 2# Link Belt. Deere seems to me to be the fastest of the hoes I've ran and I just like them the best. Link Belt would be next in line and I have heard they have very good service.

[DKinWA]

Anymore, it's hard to say which brand is better. They all have pros and cons and you have to select the machine with the most pros for what you intend to do with it. I'd give them all a try and see how the machines and the dealers shape up. Price is important, but good dealer service is hard to put a dollar value on.

[rino1494]

^ I agree. All machines these days are built pretty well and about the same. I would go with the dealer that gives you the best service. When equipment breaks, you can't afford downtime and you need the parts fast to fix it.

[denick]

Tom,

The dealer relationship is the most important part of a purchase today. Service and parts are just about everything. I think you should also deal with people you like and trust.

If your not in a hurry you can find differences in machines for the specific work you do.

Look at your past history of work and what work you hope to take on. If you find specific requirements, like you move volumes of dirt, alot of trenching, heavy lifting, constant truck loading, constantly reaching all the way out, you work in wide open areas, tight lots and back yards, on slopes, use alot of attachments. These things can guide you to a better choice.

Why a 36,000 LB machine?
Long stick vs med or short stick?
Bucket sizes ?
Would a blade be an asset?
Need to lift a certain weight tank? All the way out?

Machines have different feel and balance to everybody.

If you figure out what it is that is the most important, set up demonstrations with dealers where you can check those specific things. Even if your going to buy used try demoing a new one and put the used thru the paces. Try to run used machines for a longer period. Hot some machines run different.

2 years ago we rented two major brand machines with less than 250 hours on each. A 130 and a 140 size. The 130 could out lift the 140 measurably and was slightly faster, but very jerky to both operators. The 140 was very smooth more comfortable, better visibility. We asked the dealers about the differences and they were unable to change the performance of either.

Nick

[digger242j]

I post this simply as a stimulus for further discussion--

The consensus seems to be (in many other threads, as well as this one), that the best strategy is to go with the dealer that'll give you the best support. I certainly won't argue the wisdom of that.

The question is, if you've never owned a machine of brand X, or Y, or Z, and thus never had to rely on those dealers' support capabilities, how can you judge in advance which dealer will provide the "best" support?

[dayexco]

i know one thing, i'll never own another excavator without a quick coupler!

[denick]

Digger,

In many places I guess this is also complicated by the amount of dealers in an area. In CT a 2 hour drive in any direction there is every major brand available and possibly multiple dealers of a brand. So what is an acceptable distance away where they can provide timely support and service.

Otherwise ASK.
Ask every question you can possibly think of.

Talk to parts people. Pick a couple of parts on a machine you could see needing and ask if they have them. When can they get them. We rented a new excavator from the dealer. Upon delivery we spotted a broken fitting that was letting go. It took three days to get a fitting and come up and put it on. They lost 3 days rent. If I owned that machine and paying payments I would not be happy.

Talk to the service people, what's their attitude. People who go out of their way when you have a question usually do more for you when you have a problem. Look at the service department, service trucks how are things kept.

Ask other contractors. See a machine like the one you are considering stop and talk to the operator or call the owner. Excavating contractors don’t always seem like the most sociable people but I have found if you ask people about their trucks and equipment most will go way out of their way. But sort out the ego. I am involved in putting on a contractors dinner for excavating and trucking companies to address concerns about new laws and DOT inspections in CT. I have called or stopped to see over 100 people in three weeks 80 % I never met. 40% would be considered competition. Everyone was a nice guy to talk to and conversation flowed on many subjects. I am not a particularly good talker

ASK! everybody about everything. Not a good talker write down your list of questions and be honest about your curiosity. With the cost of equipment no one should not satisfy themselves fully before buying. I have had new people to the business ask curious questions that were amazing in their insight. ASK!


Nick

[dayexco]

BTW, we had a JRB multi fit put on our 210 hyundai last spring, was very nice not having to change all of our buckets, attachments around to use them.

[tylermckee]

take everything all those other guys have said and throw it out the window. The only 2 things that matter are 1) pick the one in the color you like, and 2) pick the one with the best radio. Maybe sit in a couple different machines and have someone tell you wich one you look best in. dealer support, reliability, lift capacity, all that stuff is just a bunch of BS that doesnt even matter. :dizzy

[Wulf]

take everything all those other guys have said and throw it out the window. The only 2 things that matter are 1) pick the one in the color you like, and 2) pick the one with the best radio. Maybe sit in a couple different machines and have someone tell you wich one you look best in. dealer support, reliability, lift capacity, all that stuff is just a bunch of BS that doesnt even matter. :dizzy

'have someone tell you which one you look best in' is good advice if you are buying clothes but equipment is different.

All machines aren't the same and operating cost per hour and resale value are important as is dealer location and capability.
Look at the price of their extended warranty, maintenance costs, oil change interval because some machines demand 250 hrs others 500 or more for the engine. Look at what technology is in use... is the hydraulic system state of the art load sensing or older design as some manufacturers just recycle old technology year after year. What level of EPA does the engine meet. Look at fuel economy, undercarriage costs, etc. etc.
Best excavator technology-wise, production wise and support wise in my experience is Komatsu. Parts pricing may be higher than 'domestic' units but they go and go so cost per operating hour is lower.

[tylermckee]

'have someone tell you which one you look best in' is good advice if you are buying clothes but equipment is different.



My first post was just a joke :wink2

But in all seriousness there is a lot of good advise in this thread and no one here can really tell you what machine you should buy. you need to site down and think about what the machine will be used for, how much you will use it, the dealer support in your area, getting parts for the machine and the prices of those parts, maintnence schedules for different machines, and on and on as others have said.

[George A]

I used a Komatsu PC 160 LC that I absolutely loved to run. I got it brand new with a hydraulic quick detach for the buckets and a hydraulic thumb that was really handy the time I had to demo an old home and stuff it into a couple of dumpsters. :thumbsup

[hillrancher]

Going to be purchasing a new 36,000 lb Excavator. Which One? Why?

Any Input?

Tommjr Every-one have given you good advise including how you will look in or on the machine pride is #1, but this is how I solve this problem. I rent with the obtion to buy. I will find out if I really need the machine or if I can pay for it. You have time to see first hand, not what an salesman tells you. I always pay at least 6 month leas befor I buy.

[DKinWA]

Hears a thought. Pick a couple of replacement parts and approach each parts department for price, availability and delivery date. I wouldn't try it when the parts dept is buried, but pick a time when they might be a little slower. At least it'd give you some idea of what the parts counter is like.

[rino1494]

oil change interval because some machines demand 250 hrs others 500 or more for the engine.


We service our machines and change all fluids and filters every 250 hrs except for hyd oil and coolant. Our theory is, oil and filters are cheap......parts are not. :Banghead

[Tommjr]

All the Info here is greatly appreciated!

The Machines I have Narrowed it down to are Deere, Kobelco, Komatsu.

I think CAT makes a great machine, except My shop mechanic said anything with CAT is highly expensive. (Just base cost on a 315CL is About $140,000.)

I can get a Deere or Kobelco for about $15,000 Cheaper.

I have also heard that the tracking power of the Komatsu is not quite there.( However, My business is Footings, Basements and septics. So there not alot of tracking anyway.)

Some of the guys around here love Kobelco, Some Love Deere, so I think I'm going to Give one of those a shot!

Thanks again for all the Info.

[tylermckee]

The company i work for has 2 new hyundai machines. the parts are cheap, there is lots of room to work on them if we ever have to, smooth, fast. We have dozer blades on both and they can push pretty well. a guy i worked with before tipped over a hitachi 120 and he said a new cab costs about ~$20,000, cab for our 140 hyundai was something like $2,700 i believe. we haven't had any problems yet, but both machines still have under 1000 hours. I know deyexco has a 210 and he said he loves it. They might be something to look into if there is a dealer in your area.

i almost forgot we have a 140 and a 160 both great machines, the 160 weighs in at 38,000 i believe.

[Ford LT-9000]

I don't think you could go wrong with a Deere or Kobelco I know contractors that run each brand. The one contractor with the Kobelco has been running 16 ton machines to now 50 ton machines.

The Forestry companies have been running Hitachi/Deere machines for quite a few years digging in heavy rock conditions digging blasted rock.

A good all around machine that the contractors here run is 160 or back in the earlier days EX-150 Hitachi's as they are easy to move around on a tag trailer. When you start requiring a lowbed and truck tractor to move a machine around that gets expensive.

A 200LC would be about as big as you need for doing residential foundations any bigger than that you will run into problems getting into places.

[coopers]

Of your three choices, Kobelco, Deere, and komatsu, I'd go Deere first then Kobelco. Deere makes great machines, we own a few 160C LC's and they're awesome. They have CWS quick couplers with the clean out and digging buckets (CWS's calls them pin grabber bkts.) and one has a CWS hyd. progressive linked thumb and the other has a PSM PL thumb. Great stuff, I wouldn't want an excavator w/o hyd. quick coupler. The thing I noticed though with the thumbs, is CWS's stumb seems to stick out a little more than the PSM's. On the 120's it's not so bad but the 160's as you can see in hte photo it sticks out a little bit. PSM has more curve to it.

Blake
WA

P.S. here's one of them.

[Dozerboy]

I agree with Ford in not going bigger than a JD 200lc

[rolloffhill]

Welcome

Brand wise IMO 1# Deere or 2# Link Belt. Deere seems to me to be the fastest of the hoes I've ran and I just like them the best. Link Belt would be next in line and I have heard they have very good service.




I would agree with DB, I like the Link Belts too, same as Case, both made by Sumitomo.

Kobelco parts are highway robbery

Hey that name sounds familiar......tommjr, now where would I have seen that before???? :wink2

[Wulf]

We service our machines and change all fluids and filters every 250 hrs except for hyd oil and coolant. Our theory is, oil and filters are cheap......parts are not. :Banghead

Sure... I hear you on the comfort level you get and wouldn't argue but manufacturers did a lot of research and made a lot of changes before extending oil changes such as:
1. Pans and capacity may be a bit larger
2. Filtration is improved (and more expensive I guess)
3. New synthetic oils and their additive packages have really advanced
4. Fuel injection is higher pressure, cleaner and there are less deposits now with electronic controls.
5. New developments in alloys and bearing metallurgy have reduced wear
6. Research was done with sampling engines at various intervals and various load factors and they found that oil was not depleted at 250 hrs (which is why we changed it)

[dayexco]

the key is....get them all up to your jobsite on a 3 day try/buy...if a dealer says no, that tells you something about his machine...next look at the service dept. reputation, parts department reputation. then take all that, and the proposals they've given you, and sit down with your accountant. that's always my final judgment, that's why i went hyundai last round, just too good of a deal to pass up, dealer rep is wonderful, service has been nothing so far "knock on wood"...and service parts for most part are available locally. i'm 52, sat on these sons a beeches since early teens...not too many bad hoes out there anymore.