Caterpillar Impact Rippers

[9420pullpan]

has anyone ran a Caterpillar dozer with an impact ripper such as this one.. or does anyone have any more pics of them...
726

[RyanCKing]

pretty interesting.........
Never have heard of anything like that before.

[rino1494]

pretty interesting.........
Never have heard of anything like that before.


Me neither........that just has to be really expensive to fix :bash

[Wulf]

Who needs an impact ripper?:wink2

[D10N]

We had a loaner a few years ago, as an experiment in removing knots from shovel pit floors. Didn't really help at all. If you were using it to break up an occasional boulder in cut/fill material, or for knocking out concrete chunks in reclaim/demo material it might be good. As for solid rock though, a single 7' Kelly shank is still the only good answer.

I might have some pics of it somewhere - I'll post if I find them.

[Ford LT-9000]

Had a contractor come here from Alberta with a D-9 with a ripper on it to-do a large construction project. They said yep we will tear this rock out with the ripper well guess what the rock won they ended up busting up the machine. Nothing beats dynamite :thumbsup

[Wulf]

Like the picture a few posts above indicate...the big Komatsu dozers conventional track system provides a much better ripping system than (take deep breath) the Hi-drive Caterpillars.
The newer ones also have shoe slip control that reduces the engine speed if the track starts to slip during ripping. Previously an operator would need to watch the tracks and the ripper tip and use the decel pedal to try and prevent tracks spinning plus it cuts down on track and grouser wear.

[9420pullpan]

1360

1361

[QuAD]

As far as I now Cat build only 4 of them.
i have seen one working.

[Scott_527]

Wulf, how does the oval track make for better ripping? I wouldn't think it would make any difference but then again i'm not someone who would know:laugh

[Dozerboy]

I don't see any advantage in oval tracks alone, maybe if the ground was uneven.

[RonG]

This issue comes up once in a while and I can see how the lower sprockets of an oval track dozer would pull more in line with the ripper.A high sprocket would have the tendancy to lift the front of the dozer and in effect reduce the area of track on the ground,area that is needed for traction to do the work.Ron G

[Dozerboy]

Not that I have a lot of time ripping in hard stuff with oval tracks, but I don't see that to be true. I demoed a Deere 1050 oval track comparable power wise to our D8R and it wasn't even close in ripping or pushing. And it was such a rough ride I believe because it had less of a flatter contact patch with the oval tracks I was happy when Deere came to pick it up.

[RonG]

Does the Deere have bogies for the bottom rollers on their track frame?That would make a difference in traction as well as ride quality.How do the two dozers compare for weight?I could look it up I suppose but you get my point.Ron G

[Wulf]

Does the Deere have bogies for the bottom rollers on their track frame?That would make a difference in traction as well as ride quality.How do the two dozers compare for weight?I could look it up I suppose but you get my point.Ron G

Deere propaganda figuring that the 1050 outrips the competition...
http://www.orfieldcommunications.com/downloads/articles/83CU_dmag.pdf

[Wulf]

This issue comes up once in a while and I can see how the lower sprockets of an oval track dozer would pull more in line with the ripper.A high sprocket would have the tendancy to lift the front of the dozer and in effect reduce the area of track on the ground,area that is needed for traction to do the work.Ron G

Ron, I think you are correct about the area of track on the ground and I've always been led to believe that the Cat dual idler and linked bogie system provides comfort but allows the front to go down and the back of the machine lift up during heavy ripping reducing traction and increasing shoe slip.
Komatsu and Cat ripper linkage/configuration is also different

[RonG]

I suppose if the ripper was mounted high enough on the back side of the dozer it could have the effect of forcing the front end down but in so doing it would make the rear of the track frame lighter,reducing traction where you need it for pulling effort.I am sure the engineers have that all figured out.I wonder how drawbar pulls compared to an oval track dozer like Komatsu which does have the bogie system for their bottom rollers?
All the Cat hightrack dozers that I have run have seemed nose heavy,especially those with nothing mounted behind the fuel tank like a winch or ripper for a counterweight.
I noticed on that JD page every single picture had the lower track frame covered so you could not see the bottom rollers.I have run the 750 enough to get a feel for it and it was impressive but not enough for me to choose it over the Cat unless I was doing work in real tight quarters,I think the Cat gives up a little in visibility in the sprocket area.
From the 650 on down I will choose JD every time but Cat gets the nod for anything larger.Ron G

[Scott_527]

Deere propaganda figuring that the 1050 outrips the competition...
That's the same as any company though. They all have some contractor out there to tell everyone about how great thier brand is. In thier own opinions theyre the best, or at least they tell you they are.

[Scott_527]

Komatsu and Cat ripper linkage/configuration is also different
Maybe it's just an illusion but I've always though that Komatsu had their rear attachment a little bit higher than the Cats of the same size.

[Wulf]

Maybe it's just an illusion but I've always though that Komatsu had their rear attachment a little bit higher than the Cats of the same size.

It's a tough call on these two...

[Countryboy]

Here's a nudder one. Cat D11N with impact ripper.

3564

[9420pullpan]

5791

5792

[DPete]

Ouch, I feel sorry for that undercarriage. If it's not dirt I'm not commin. :D DP

[Dozer575]

If you examine the way the sprocket of the hightrack machine pulls at the rear idler, it pulls up on it. And since the center point of that pivot shaft is ahead of the center of the idler, there is a tendancy for the front section of the track frame to be pushed down. Then there is the levering effect of the torque applied by the sprocket that is also lifting the front of the tractor. These 2 forces together will act to fold the track frame up in the rear thus reducing the ripper downward force and of course then the track to ground engagement. Not only does this happen while ripping but pushin as well.

You guys are right on. RonG and Wulf

[MKTEF]

Hey Wulf:)
You got a picture of a d11R with the markings "Johs J Syltern as" on the hood.
Their website don't say they got one, but it can be rented for a project...

Where did you find the picture?
There isn't so many D11 in Norway, in fact only one at Svalbard, but roumors say there is sold one to another firm.(Hæhre)

So i wonder where this one is pictured.:)

[Deas Plant]

Hi, Folks.
As I understand it, Cat withdrew these rippers from sales and production 'cos they had a strong tendency to rip tractors apart at least as well as or even better than they ripped rock. Funny, that. You put a high-frequency, high-impact vibrator on something like a ripper attached to the back of a tractor, attempt to bury the ripper up to its ears in something as hard as granite or basalt and expect that vibration to be lost in the rock and not be transferred in any way, shape or form to the tractor. And you are surprised when the vibration rattles the tractor to bits. Life is full of little surprises.

[385c JR]

Hey Wulf:)
You got a picture of a d11R with the markings "Johs J Syltern as" on the hood.
Their website don't say they got one, but it can be rented for a project...

Where did you find the picture?
There isn't so many D11 in Norway, in fact only one at Svalbard, but roumors say there is sold one to another firm.(Hæhre)

So i wonder where this one is pictured.:)

Johs J Syltern have been in Spain, Tærudalen I think it was.
The picture is taken there.

I think they have sold it now.

what company are you working at?

[bobcat ron]

Wow, I think that's more than just a vibrator, more like a jack hammer.

[Mike]

Dease plant is right . Caterpillar has discontinued the impact ripper as they discovered it caused major frame cracking problems in the crawlers they were installed on . If you have noticed Caterpillar is slowly reverting back to low drive system one undercarrige in their smaller dozers eg. the new D6k .I think if this new system proves out it will be offered as an optional undercarrige for the bigger machines. The company I work for operates a D8r's and D8t's . We change out undercarrige like we change our underpants often . Our maintenance staff is not overly impressed with Cats high track system on these change outs we use nothing but genuine Cat parts The machines are used in a municipal sanitary landfill application . We also use Komatsu 155's they do not suffer the same undercarrige wear as the 8's go figure.But they do suffer more drive train / transmisson problems .We have often lamented the fact that there is not more manufactures of dozers over 300hp on the market if this was the case I doubt we would buy Cat or Komatsu dozers for our operation.

[RollOver Pete]

Which ever tractor exerts more ground pressure will likely do a better job pulling a ripper Thur rock.
Take a Cat D9L and a D10N.
Even though the L is lighter and has about 100 less hp, it still has a heavier footprint due to the shorter u/c.
A shorter u/c with narrow tracks such as the 9L I ran gives you better traction and more rim pull the larger 10N's.
As far as the oval track/high track debate?
I think getting the job done is all relative as to which tractor exerts more ground pressure.
:cool:

[d6peg]

Looks hard on the tractor but more so looks like it would be hard on the spine of the operator.:(

[RollOver Pete]

Welcome to HEF d6peg :drinkup
:cool:

[d6peg]

Thanks for the welcome. Been looking for a forum such as this. I am 40 yrs old and pushed my first load of dirt when I was 10. I feel like a 6 yr old in a new sand box.

[Mass-X]

One of the best operators I've ever seen, worked for me on a crew last year and showed me pictures he took of him running one of the D11N's with an impact ripper quite a few years ago. It was while he worked for a company out of Las Vegas that has since become part of Frehner.

He said in the caliche in Vegas, the ripper was awesome, but miserable to operate. The dense rock was very difficult on the other D11N's but with the impact ripper, the machines ripping production was drastically increased.

The one downside he remembers, and the obvious reason why they never went into mass production, was that he basically had a mechanic parked next to the cut at all times to fix the machine as it would break.

[Firecat11]

How about a Komatsu???

[jurgcor]

Yeah, I have been operating for Kiewit for 5 yrs. In and around Austin and West TX. My Tractor is a 10 N and my understanding is the ripper was built in the late 80's. It is a cat I believe. It looks similar to the ones you are showing but built little different. I have several pics of it and would love to show you. However, I am new here and don't know how to submit them. The machine was put together by Holt Cat in Austin, the ripper was originally on a 9L. I have real trouble the points, we flip at about half, then they'll break at about a quarter. I guess with the violence of ripping and the impactor, It is lucky they survive the first flip. Any comments or help would be really appreciated

[jurgcor]

I agree with massX the ripper is actually a blessing if you can get under the cap. It is effective in the hard limestone in WTexas. Although it is extremely hard on itself and the tractor. I actually prefer to rip with it as opposed to a straight shank. It actualy doesn't hurt you as bad. The vibes are so steady and smooth the rock doesn't have achance to beat you. Makes BIG chinks to crawl over though, OUCH!!!!!!!!

[jurgcor]

I have and posted a couple of re[plies on page three. Kiewit has one on a 10n. My Baby. Have lots of pics, don't know how to put up. New here. (Thanx for the turn on Jimmy).

[jurgcor]

My understanding from the guys at NPK, there are 6 they know of still working. My tractor, 1 in KY, 2 In Puerto Rico, and 2 in Brazil. Mine came from WA.

[Gavin84w]

In Sydney, Australia they have been doing large mass excavation in the CBD for years putting down deep holes for carparks etc for the buildings they will build. The Hawkesbury sandstone that covers the most part of Sydney has been recipient of just about every dozer ever made in order to rip it out in conjunction with hammers etc. So amongst a few contractors with big dozers there has been and always will be the "475 rips better than the 11" debate.

There are so many variables to this sort of statement it is not funny, one thing no one ever mentions is the ripper design, always the discussion is tractor based. When you look at the 2 rippers designs on the 475/D11 they are quite different, raising and pitching are acomplished in similar ways but i believe that due to where the Komatsu lift cylinders connect to the ripper box instead of the table like on a Cat the pivot point for pitch is moved to a different spot so the advantage you get with a Komatsu when lifting and lowering the shank during ripping is that there is also slight adjustment to the pitch by doing the one function. Now any good ripping operator knows that in order to rip real hard stuff you have to work the angles all the time and i believe the Komatsu enjoys the advantage of acomplishing to movements with one function and helps in the real tight stuff.

Now with impacts in Sydney i have only ever seen 2, A D9L Cat ahd going around on demo and a Thiess D10N that went 60m under the opera house building a car park. I witnessed the 9L on a big freeway job north of Sydney pitched against a D10 & D11N and all were lined up together drag racing style and then greenlighted and the impact left the others behind but i wonder which machines are still working today.

[jurgcor]

Enjoy fellas, I run it most every day.
This rock don't look like much, but is really dense, and has no voids or fractures to work in. Looks like talcum powder when it does come apart, sometimes breaks out in slabs that I can't walk down. However it will melt in water. Wierd stuff

[Randy Krieg]

Gavin

I spent some time on one in the late 80s. It was amazing what this tractor could rip, but it's definitly true, they pounded themselves to pieces. At least that's how it went in the material we were working in. The company I operated it for had it rented. Just a couple days before it was to go back to the dealer it broke the tip off the shank. It looked like blue shattered glass when it broke. Still made them a ton of money on the project. In the one cut alone they had bid to drill and shoot 330,000 cu/yrds. They only had to drill and shoot about 20,000 cu/yrds, that Cat was able to rip the rest of it.

At one point they had another D9L w/single shank parallelogram working in the same cut right beside me. There was no comparison.

Randy

[Gavin84w]

Jurgcor, interesting to see the IR still in use and i would say it is a testament to both your operating and maintenance depts that one is running in 2008 with all the talk of how they just tear up the machine, a D10N has been out of production for a while now but i bet she has a lot of spring washers on her and Loctite!!

Randy, yeah giant machine gun i know exactly what you mean, there is supposedly a D11 IR here in Sydney at the largest garbage tip in the southern hemisphere but i think it has been taken off the machine, i guess if it is true 4 only D11 machines were equipped with them then it would be the one machine down here, a recent pic of one at Richies auction in Nevada (ex Frehner) and the Eberhard machine plus 1 other in some of the European publications but i was recently sent a pic of an 11R with one so maybe a rogue???

[FatCatGotHot]

Gavin, last year I found somewhere in the net pics of a D11R with an IR ripping vulcanic rock on a Hawaian island. Don't remeber any details, but I was surprised seeing an IR mounted on a modern machine.

Jurgcor, that's a tidy D10N! The welders job on the blade with all the wear plates and the reinforcment in the middle (do you push pans??) is real nice. When was the last general rebuilt on your tractor? Nice machine.


BTW, it's an interesting feature of the HEF that you have two make 3 replies first befor you can start an own thread. So you often do a sidestep into an existing discussion instead of starting with "Hello, I'm...came from...do this or that and of course, like iron!" like I see it in other forums!

[FatCatGotHot]

The pic of an D11N from behind with the IR that country boy posted, that's the other D11 IR I'm aware of, that worked here in th EU. IIt worked for Stewering, a German contractor. They also runned a huge LeTourneau 3 bowl scraper, on of the "electric diggers". Maybe it was named L-90?

If my memory serves me right, they bought it from someone in the UK...have to browse thru my bookshelf to say that for sure.

[Gavin84w]

FCGH yes that is the other EU one i have seen, i think Ad mentions somewhere only 4 11,s built but i have seen that pic of an R with one too.

[Squizzy246B]

BTW, it's an interesting feature of the HEF that you have two make 3 replies first befor you can start an own thread. So you often do a sidestep into an existing discussion instead of starting with "Hello, I'm...came from...do this or that and of course, like iron!" like I see it in other forums!

Its not an ideal arrangement but it has proved very successful at eliminating spammers.

[FatCatGotHot]

Hi Gavin, here's the D11R somewhere on an holiday island: http://www.baumaschinenbilder.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97934&sid=402ed2db7c8fc6506f43b4aa1c6f3607

[FatCatGotHot]

Here's a link to the webpage of Klaus Stewering, cntractors: http://www.klaus-stewering.de/erdbau.html I don't think that they own that IR or a D11 at all anymore.

The one Eberhard ran was also used on a airport runway demolition job at Zurich, don't know if that was mentioned here befor.

[Gavin84w]

FCGH, yes that is the pic i was sent, would be interesting to find out where the IR came from to be fitted to the R model, i would suggest one of the four original machines would have been the donor.

[FatCatGotHot]

Gavin, these were exactly my thaughts about that Hawaian D11R...but as mentioned here above, that impact ripper is hard to the tractor and to itself, not just to the rock. I could imagine that the contractor kindly asked NPK for a new unit to mount on the back of its D11R. Ok, maybe that IR is an complete rebuilt, would be possible too. I wonder how many life is left in such a ripper to justify an complete rebuilt.

Would be interesting to know how all the electronic systems in the D11R react to the vibrations of the ripper. As Jurgcor said, the vibrations are quiet smooth and steady, so I think it will be OK.

[bigcatpip]

does anybody have a impact ripper on a T yet? Wonder how it would hold up?

[Sparffo]

does anyone know the "hammer size" on the IR? how much does it weight, if you compare it to excavator hammers. looks like it could be a 2 ton hammer?
this has been probably quite good to break concrete with also!

[QuAD]

Here some pic's from the D9L IR.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1006/d9l1nw3.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/748/d9l2qj3.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3787/d9l3ux9.jpg

[QuAD]

Here some pic's from the D9L IR.

[QuAD]

Got several trips to Belgium to see this D10N IR.

[QuAD]

Here pic's from the Eberhard news.

[QuAD]

But the best was this D11N I visit for 2 days in Germany.
Incredible when it rip and push done the sloop, sometime it work with only the blade and ripper touch the ground.

[QuAD]

One of my proud is this new ripper tooth of a D11N in ours front yard.

[Sparffo]

One of my proud is this new ripper tooth of a D11N in ours front yard.

WOW! That is one big tooth!
wonder if a Komatsu PC15 would even lift it :D

[Gavin84w]

Really nice shots Ad, you can see on the knuckle on the blade side arm to blade back joint is around the wrong way, also look at the ROPS, it is also installed backwards on the last pic

[gd10r]

This one was at auction in Casper WY, 1994.

[Dazman]

Telecom Australia (now Telstra) had a D11 with an Impact Ripper. Apparently CAT wouldn't give any warrenty on the dozer after it found out what Telecom was doing with it. They would just line it up and run it non-stop for hours digging trenches in the middle of Australia. Dad was accountant for them.... apparently very expensive in the long run.

[oversize]

Telecom Australia (now Telstra) had a D11 with an Impact Ripper. Apparently CAT wouldn't give any warrenty on the dozer after it found out what Telecom was doing with it. They would just line it up and run it non-stop for hours digging trenches in the middle of Australia. Dad was accountant for them.... apparently very expensive in the long run.

Yes I to remember seeing this in one of the trade magazines my dad had back in the day it had a second dozer following which had a cable roller on the front and a modified ripper on the back that ripped and layed the cable under ground as it went along, It was been used to lay fibber optic cable in the outback.

[Dazman]

oversize: that would be the exact setup. Can't remember the size of the dozer that followed, but they wrote the expenses off on that one as R & D for tax purposes.

[palacemasonry]

does anyone know of a website to verify cat equipment year and counrty of origin .
thanks

[palacemasonry]

does anyone know a website that does not charge to verify year and manufature . on cat equipment ... thanks

[special tool]

does anyone know a website that does not charge to verify year and manufature . on cat equipment ... thanks

Why don't you give us more than 3 minutes, Bubba.;)

[Danial Doherty]

just looking at all that rock is making my blood pressure rise!! two thumbs up to you boys who play in that **** every day!

[BigIron25]

so does this ripper have a hammer in it or how does it work?

[JDOFMEMI]

Nothing like a nice rock pile to seperate the men from the boys! I love rock.

Bigiron25
Yes, there is a hydraulic hammer pounding on the back of the ripper shank.

[Randy Krieg]

palacemasonry: The Caterpillar (PHB) Performance Hand Book has the section listed as "Former Models" and gives basic specs., serial number prefixs and years of manufacture for most of their former models no longer in production.

Big Iron 25: The D9L Impactor that I ran had dial controls for dwell and stroke. It also had an Auto/Manual switch and a trigger in the front of the control lever for manual. So the operator could basically set how hard and at what frequency he needed the hammer to hit. There was a sensor that could tell when the ripper shank was pushing hard enough against the hammer to require it to activate. The ripper shank was on a hinge, it looked like a giant samurai blade when it was off the machine, and it wasn’t shaped anything like a regular D9L ripper shank. I always ran it in the Automatic Mode after I got it set right. As the shank would come against a formation of hard rock, the shank rotated just a few degrees on the hinge and pushed back against the hammer head, once enough force was applied the hammer would automatically start pounding :Banghead on the back of the ripper shank pad. I usually just tickled the decelerator enough to keep force against the rock, but not spin the tracks. In the material we were working in at that time within a few seconds the rocks would fracture and the machine would walk forward until it pulled up against another hard formation. Some of the material was rotten enough you could run at full throttle and walk right through it, the hammer would only come on intermittently as it hit hard spots.
Regards, Randy Krieg

[Gavin84w]

Randy, would be interesting to know how many D9L,s were fitted with impacts, we had one in Sydney, Australia on demo and it was pitted against an 84W D10 & a 74Z D11N on a big freeway job north of Sydney and it could outrip both of them in the hard Sydney sandstone. Also a D10N with impact ripper was used behind a continuous miner to corkscrewdown 60 metres below the Sydney Opera house for a carpark.

There was also a D11N with IR sold in South Australia to Telecom for ripping the trench to lay fibre optic cable across Australia, the machine now resides at Menai tip for Cleary Bros in Sydney and i have a feeling the pic of a D11R with impact ripper in Hawai may be the benefactor of this machines impact ripper as it now runs a std SS ripper.

Good topic on a rare machine and there is also a couple of new vids on the tube of the Eberhard machine.

[RDG]

Gavin 84w post back at #40 hits the nail on the head, the geometery of the ripper linkage is the big difference between the two. The Komatsu gets a lot more break out force because when you push out on the pitch rams it will curl the tip in and lift in the process due to the positioning of the lift rams. When you get the ripper hooked into something solid and by pulling the tip in you are pulling the back of the machine down there by increasing traction and providing much more breakout force. The cat on the other hand does not have the same advantage. I have done a good few years on D155 and D8D 9Hs with quad rippers and the 155 always had more breakout power, but like Gavin said its a matter of working the shank angles to find the best position, operator skill and experince also has a lot to do with it, probably more so than anything.

[BigIron25]

palacemasonry: The Caterpillar (PHB) Performance Hand Book has the section listed as "Former Models" and gives basic specs., serial number prefixs and years of manufacture for most of their former models no longer in production.

Big Iron 25: The D9L Impactor that I ran had dial controls for dwell and stroke. It also had an Auto/Manual switch and a trigger in the front of the control lever for manual. So the operator could basically set how hard and at what frequency he needed the hammer to hit. There was a sensor that could tell when the ripper shank was pushing hard enough against the hammer to require it to activate. The ripper shank was on a hinge, it looked like a giant samurai blade when it was off the machine, and it wasn’t shaped anything like a regular D9L ripper shank. I always ran it in the Automatic Mode after I got it set right. As the shank would come against a formation of hard rock, the shank rotated just a few degrees on the hinge and pushed back against the hammer head, once enough force was applied the hammer would automatically start pounding :Banghead on the back of the ripper shank pad. I usually just tickled the decelerator enough to keep force against the rock, but not spin the tracks. In the material we were working in at that time within a few seconds the rocks would fracture and the machine would walk forward until it pulled up against another hard formation. Some of the material was rotten enough you could run at full throttle and walk right through it, the hammer would only come on intermittently as it hit hard spots.
Regards, Randy Krieg


Randy, loved the post and all the information, it cleared up alot of questions and thoughts. thank you much!

[RowanH]

Some good video here ->

YouTube - caterpillar d11n met impact ripper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDINdBlOSsA)

YouTube - 2009 11 09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEw487-ceDk)

YouTube - CAT D 11 N Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxEXLiHYV3o)

YouTube - CAT D11 N Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpGtCF4jxco)

YouTube - CAT D11 N Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk4YxGRZr-k)

Rowan.

[Gavin84w]

Rowan,

You can clearly see the IR functioning as Randy Kreig states in these videos, when enough force is exerted on the tip the hammer kicks in, just like any NPK hammer on an excavator. It,s brute excavation at the closest scale to blasting as you can have.