8LL or 18 speed

[Nac]

Can somebody tell what the advantages / disadvantages of a 8LL vs 18 speed.
Also how do you operate / shift a 18 speed?

[Jeff D.]

I can't speak for an 8LL,but an 18 speed is very similiar to a 9 speed direct(not OD) tranny (5 gears on the bottom,4 on top)

You have a range select,and a splitter.The splitter can be thought of like a 2 speed rear end.It can be used in any one of the 9 gears,thus you've 18 speeds total.

It has reverse far left and foward,straight back is 1st,forward and over 2nd,then a regular "H" pattern too 5th.Then range select up,go back into the hole used for 2nd(towards dash,in middle)that's 6th,and again "H" pattern until 9th.

The splitter will move 1/2 gear between any two gears,like the split rear-end analagy.

13 speeds,and 15 speeds,are the same as 18 speeds,except the splitter only works in the top(13),or the botttom(15),not both like the 18 speed.

9 speed OD trannys have 4 gears on the bottom,5 on top,so they shift in a different pattern than the 13,15,or 18.

18 speeds are excellent tranny's,as are 13's and 15's,but with the advantage of the splitter in low and high range.

I hope that helps,more than confuses!!:)

[BKrois]

With the 18 speed you split 9 gears. Just imagine a 9 speed where you have 1/2 gears. You split the bottom 5 gears, bump the splitter up and split the top 4. I don't know any disadvantages to an 18 speed other than maybe a little more time for driver training. The 18 speed seems to be the choice transmission to handle the torque on the bigger 500/550+hp motors from what i have seen in truck magazines.

[Ford LT-9000]

A 18spd is a 8spd that you split the top and bottom ranges you don't really class low gear as a speed you don't split it the only time you use it is to crawl out of a steep spot.

A 18spd will shift exactly the same as a 8LL but you have the benefit of splitting the bottom 4 and the top 4. It makes better use of the engines power so your not getting big rpm swings that burn fuel and is a little harder on the driveline.

For your application you prolly will use the top splits the most for highway speed.

If you have the option for a 13 or 18spd go for it you will save fuel as the engine is being used where it makes the power its not being over revved.

The thing with a truck with a splitter is keep the air system clean ie drain the tanks every night as moisture plays havock with the air valves for the splitter.

[Orchard Ex]

Looking at the Roadranger book the gear ratios are almost identical on the low and high end, but you get 2 OD's on the 18 speed instead of 1 on the 8LL. Ratios jump about 35% per gear on the 8LL and about 19% on the 18 speed. Does Eaton charge per gear on transmissions? :wink2

[Ford LT-9000]

A 35% jump is quite abit it maybe okay for flatlanders but when your pulling grades a good splitter is needed.

I don't think a 18spd is that much of a upgrade in price most new vocational trucks sold in B.C. come with a 18spd.

[Jeff D.]

I was thinking about it today while driving.So I shifted my 13 speed by starting in second,and shifting the "H" pattern,then range select up and "H" again.A total of 8 gears.It was too big of jumps.

I had to bring it up to 1700rpm before shifting so it wouldn't drop below 1200rpm for the next gear.Any kind of hill would have made it difficult.

That's with 3.70 rears,11r22.5 rubber,and Eaton 13 double over.70mph is about 1550rpm,and 1600rpm is 75mph.So a higher numerical rear end ratio could make it less of a jump,for only 8 gears,but would sacrifice top road speed in the process.

On edit(oops,I did use splitter in 9th,so actually it was 9 gears total,or 8 and a 1/2 gears,depending on how you look at it.But top road speed in 9 without splitter would have been much lower)

[Ford LT-9000]

With this truck being a tridrive what NAC is buying might aswell go with the 18 when your going to be carrying say 40,000lbs on the truck for payload more gears the better.

[jmac]

I have a automatic in my dump truck and the gvw is 25900. I did not have CDl for the past three years of using this truck. Purchased a 12 ton trailer and now need cdl for me to be legal. My truck also has juice brakes no air.
Go to dmv and pick up book to study for test. Go to take test for cdl "c" and find out I need cdl "a" because of trailer. OK give me general test, air brake, and combo test. Pass them all and figure how easy was that. Now the road test. I call Ryder to rent truck to take test because why not get air and combo cdl for the future. Cost $300 for day for tractor and trailer. Now I need a driver with cdl. Call my friend who has one of the largest companies in area and has 6 or 7 tri axles and low boy for driver. He says that I can use one of his drivers and lowboy for test and one day practice. I did the practice today and this is my point wow!! that is not easy. I cancelled my test for two week because no way will I be able to drive one these in 5 hours of diving. Who new!! Now I appreciate what it takes to dive this thing, a lot like my excavator or dozer. Lots of seat time. This rig had a 12 speed and had to massage every shift. By the end of the day I could move the truck but not reel smooth and down shift was still tricky. Hat's off to you guys !! :notworthy
I will get it in couple more days (like 30 hours or so)but not in 5 or 6.
John

[Jeff D.]

John,I went through a 3 week"crash course" type training when I first got my license.Then they set me free on the roads.

I was scared too death.2nd week out they sent me too Chicago(downtown)to pick up a load of scrap.I almost parked it,got a taxi to the airport,and flew home.(had a company truck)

That's no kidding either.I'm serious as a breathalizer about that almost flying home thing.

If your in familiar areas,and have been driving a dumptruck already,you'll catch on pretty fast I bet.The shifting can be kinda scratchy at first.

Good Luck!!

[AFCS]

the 8 LL is the tranny of choice for 450 to 600 hp caterpiller and cummins big cam four dumptrucks with 46's and 11-24.5 tires with 411 gears. this tranny is arguably the best combination due to the ability to use truck as if it had a 4 speed when empty. when loaded or pulling a pup,, low gear can be split, then when you go to second you are still in low (not split) through fifth, then split up and shift top four gears. when truck is empty, simply let clutch out at idle and run four upper gears and you are doing 70 in roughly 25-45 seconds,, really sweet setup. I use on in a freightline dumptruck that pulls a pup, and a tilt bed 20 ton, it is by far one of the best setups that i have had the pleasure to use.
just my opinion, but if given the opportunity to try one out,, i would jump at the opportunity!

[Jeff D.]

I'm not familiar with the 8LL,at all.Does it have more than 8 speeds then?

Is it an H pattern,with low and high ranges,that has a split also for some of the gears?

It sounded like it had some similiarities to the 15speed,with the splitter on the low range,but I'm not sure I understood it correctly.

[AFCS]

low,, aft left position is two position splittable, then 2nd (first in four speed pattern) is in low position 2,3,4, high split 5, 6, 7, 8, just like a four speed in a car,, pretty easy setup, that is reliable as he ll

[Orchard Ex]

Eaton lists the 8LL as a 10 speed. I drove a Brockway for a little while with the old version of the 8LL. IIRC it has a range selector and a splitter button. In low range you get gears 1 through 4 plus L and LL (splitter button selected) as well as RL and RLL (splitter). In high range you get gears 5 through 8 plus RH. Or "10 goinaheads" and "3 backinups". If I didn't remember right somebody please correct me.
The old pattern (the one I drove) was the (U?) pattern the went:
1 4
2 3
range select up
5 8
6 7
the newer ones are a regular H pattern.

[John Banks]

My Eaton 8LL is listed as a 9 speed. This is a 2005 truck.

[kamerad47]

The 18spd is a waste of time for a local truck the 8 spd is the way to go ! I been drive dumps, trailers & rolloffs for 20 yrs & if I was buying a new truck it would be an auto !! A buddy of mine let me drive his 2005 kenworth with a 550 cat & auto SWEET!!!!!

[Orchard Ex]

My Eaton 8LL is listed as a 9 speed. This is a 2005 truck.
Wonder why it's listed that way? I'm just going by the 2005 catalog so maybe it's a misprint. I see that they also have a 9LL that's in the 11 speed section. It has 8 forward with 3 lows. You'd think it would be called an "8 triple L".

[2004F550]

18, then its there when you need it but not when you don't

[John Banks]

Wonder why it's listed that way? I'm just going by the 2005 catalog so maybe it's a misprint. I see that they also have a 9LL that's in the 11 speed section. It has 8 forward with 3 lows. You'd think it would be called an "8 triple L".

It's printed on the pattern label as 9sp and of course detailed as 8LL. The pattern is Reverse - H&L @ top left, right below that is Low, then it's 1-4 H pattern, click up to get 5-8 H pattern.

[Orchard Ex]

If it only has 8 + 1 low like:811it is what Eaton is calling a 9 speed.
If it has 8 + 2 lows like 812 Eaton calls it a 8LL and is listed with the 10 speeds.
The 9LL adds another low (LL2) at the 1st gear/5th gear station which by logic should make it an 8LLL but they call it a 9LL and list it with the 11 speeds.
I can't seem to copy the pattern picture but here is the url if interested: http://www.roadranger.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=Roadranger%2FeTpageDetail%2 Fouter&Node=Products+and+Solutions&c=Page&cid=1054236445822&inner=y
From what I can tell some 9's are 9 speed some are 10 speeds and some can be converted to 13 speeds... :dizzy
Is your 9 speed convertible to a 13 speed later on?
Also the 8LL shift pattern is different than I posted earlier so my brain must be going to mush (as usual).
John - I take it that this is your '05 Freightliner? How do you like the truck so far?

[John Banks]

It's the pattern on top of those two. Funny, like I said before, it's printed on there as 9 speed, and looking back now it does state 9sp in the advertisement. Sorry for the confusion. The build sheet shows Eaton Fuller RT-8709B, 9 forward speeds, 2 reverse.

Anyway, yes, it's the Freightliner and I love the truck. Plenty of power, great turning radius, rides very well - air cab & air suspension seat, and with the cab silencer package - it's fairly quiet too.

[Orchard Ex]

John - I sent you a PM - thanks

[Jeff D.]

Is your 9 speed convertible to a 13 speed later on?

OrchardEx,I had a 9speed Eaton converted to a 13speed.I was told at the time I had it done it could be done on the 9 direct tranny's,but not the 9 od tranny's.

[95zIV]

The 8 speed with the LL2 is acutally a transmission that was developed to run in ready-mix concrete trucks to give you even more options on the very bottom to pour with. Where I work we've got all the trannys that you are talking about. The 18s are a waste of time, we've got two in macks with 427's Splitting those lower gears is just too tedious. So we don't bother but using the top half splitting is nice on the interstate. My own truck has a 8LL, and a 430 cat, that's a good combo because of how fast the revs drop off in the shift. I drove one today, that's got a 385 and an 8LL but due to the fact that it doesn't rev like mine it shifts ALOT harder. that's a truck where a 13 would be nice. It mostly depends on what you're doing with the truck for the tranny.