Love my old grove

[td25c]

Last spring i bought a grove tm 250t from a friend of mine.He owned it for meney years and maintaind it well. I had a good summer&fall working with it setting trusses and grain bin augers. anyone else own one of these crane's.

[stock]

Any piccs???

[td25c]

here are some pics!

[ATCOEQUIP]

25c, my hat's off to ya'. I've been where you are, an independent guy providing crane service for your area. When I was younger my dad's company evolved into steel erection/crane service. We had a boom truck and a Bucyrus-Erie 45C series II 30 ton. I've set more trusses than I care to think about. It looks like you have a good handle on operating your rig, and I can see in your pics that your doing something that I was always picky about when I operated mobile cranes; always use cribbing under outrigger pads! Always! That's a nice machine you have. I haven't operated the 250T. I have operated a TMS100, which was a couple of years after your rig, but similar to your machine. Also the TMS45 and TMS50, Link Belts, P&H's, Clark's, and Lorain's. The Groves from back in the 70's were strong machines. I hope at some point your able to give your machine a paint and decal job. And just out of curiosity; how are you terminating your cable at the wedge socket (beckett)?

[td25c]

25c, my hat's off to ya'. I've been where you are, an independent guy providing crane service for your area. When I was younger my dad's company evolved into steel erection/crane service. We had a boom truck and a Bucyrus-Erie 45C series II 30 ton. I've set more trusses than I care to think about. It looks like you have a good handle on operating your rig, and I can see in your pics that your doing something that I was always picky about when I operated mobile cranes; always use cribbing under outrigger pads! Always! That's a nice machine you have. I haven't operated the 250T. I have operated a TMS100, which was a couple of years after your rig, but similar to your machine. Also the TMS45 and TMS50, Link Belts, P&H's, Clark's, and Lorain's. The Groves from back in the 70's were strong machines. I hope at some point your able to give your machine a paint and decal job. And just out of curiosity; how are you terminating your cable at the wedge socket (beckett)?

I realy enjoy the crane side of the buisnes.Its always interesting.I to always use cribbing with the outrigers.The crane operates smooth and it has a good " feel" to it.Mabe this summer I will be able to put some new color on it.I always keep it under roof when not in use.I dont like it out side in the whether.I terminate the cable with a staderd 5/8 beckett& wedge.

[ATCOEQUIP]

I realy enjoy the crane side of the buisnes.Its always interesting.I to always use cribbing with the outrigers.The crane operates smooth and it has a good " feel" to it.Mabe this summer I will be able to put some new color on it.I always keep it under roof when not in use.I dont like it out side in the whether.I terminate the cable with a staderd 5/8 beckett& wedge.


I was more referring to how you terminate the "dead cable" coming out of the wedge socket, just wanted to make sure your not using a rope clip clamping dead cable to load line :eek:. As I stated before, I haven't run that rig, but the TMS100 wasn't a whole lot different and that's one of the smoothest operating hydro's I've ran. From someone who's been where you are, I hope you do well and have a blast doing it. Working a crane "service" is a heck of a job. You do a lot of different things for a lot of different people, man could I tell some stories. Have you slung a concrete bucket yet? That's the thing that will make you a really good operator. And I'm glad to see you use good cribbing. It's always been my contention that overkill of good outrigger base is better than not enough outrigger base. I've seen cranes go over because an operator sunk a pad with no cribbing. :usa

[TheKid]

I agree that the older groves are far greater then some of the newer equipment. I currently operate both a 65ton and the 80ton in So. Cali. Great cranes and the 65ton grove surely over powers our newer 06' 75ton linkbelt. Dont get me wrong, im a computer guy too, and the electronic controls are great but i can hook the space shuttle with the older groves and put it on the moon if wanted to. i will post a few pics as soon as i get some.

[ATCOEQUIP]

I agree that the older groves are far greater then some of the newer equipment. I currently operate both a 65ton and the 80ton in So. Cali. Great cranes and the 65ton grove surely over powers our newer 06' 75ton linkbelt. Dont get me wrong, im a computer guy too, and the electronic controls are great but i can hook the space shuttle with the older groves and put it on the moon if wanted to. i will post a few pics as soon as i get some.


Dang, your making me feel old! Back when I was running cranes, the PC hadn't even been invented, much less computers on rigs! One of the strongest one's I've operated was the TMS375. It had a shorter boom than the 475 (with dead section), but it had lifting capacity to make up for it. I did a job lifting two very old wooden rail cars off of their wheel trucks and loading them on lowboys for transport. The first was a Caboose, not too bad. The second was a "refridgerated car". We're talking early 1900's wooden rail cars. There was no such thing as styrofoam insulation back then. A reefer car from that era would be a box car made of very thick hardwood loaded with ice. I don't know what the weight was, but it's all that 375 / 45 ton wanted. Was lifting over the rear and had front outrigger pads 2 feet off the ground when it finally lifted off the wheel trucks. Verrry Carrrefully started booming up/cable out until things settled down. Load chart don't apply here, that's operating by the seat of your pants in a strong old crane! ;)

[td25c]

I was more referring to how you terminate the "dead cable" coming out of the wedge socket, just wanted to make sure your not using a rope clip clamping dead cable to load line :eek:. As I stated before, I haven't run that rig, but the TMS100 wasn't a whole lot different and that's one of the smoothest operating hydro's I've ran. From someone who's been where you are, I hope you do well and have a blast doing it. Working a crane "service" is a heck of a job. You do a lot of different things for a lot of different people, man could I tell some stories. Have you slung a concrete bucket yet? That's the thing that will make you a really good operator. And I'm glad to see you use good cribbing. It's always been my contention that overkill of good outrigger base is better than not enough outrigger base. I've seen cranes go over because an operator sunk a pad with no cribbing. :usa

I dont use a cable clamp on the dead end,just the wedge socket.When installing the cable and wedge I always "seat" the wedge whith a mallet by hand before installing the headake ball.I havent slung any concete yet but I do halve a 3/4 yard funnel.I am going to fabricate a spreder bar for the wider truss sets.

[TheKid]

Yeah, I was setting these new style bathroom facilities at a tourest park a few months back which comes in 2 half. Each half was 48k and not an issue when your sitting on it with the 80ton but when some smart guy desides to build perminent picnick tables and a retaining wall in the way, tends to be hard. With the long reach on unimproved soil, both rear outriggers pushed all the cribbing and mats about 2' deeper. front end was high enough that my oiler could have greased the ball joints standing on a small step stool. with nowhere to land but the only obvious spot, i proceeded to pucker up and landed the half i was working with in the right spot in a sorta controlled crash landing. Was a great feeling to know i didnt have to re pick that darn thing again just to reposition it.

[td25c]

I agree that the older groves are far greater then some of the newer equipment. I currently operate both a 65ton and the 80ton in So. Cali. Great cranes and the 65ton grove surely over powers our newer 06' 75ton linkbelt. Dont get me wrong, im a computer guy too, and the electronic controls are great but i can hook the space shuttle with the older groves and put it on the moon if wanted to. i will post a few pics as soon as i get some.

I agree,the older groves by todays standerds are over built,thicker steal,my outrigers are boxed in and have holes in the square tubing for a safety pin.

[TheKid]

as soon as im over this "probationary member" stuff i sould be able to post some pics. Im just a youngster and im wondering what ever happened to putting cranes on pierce chassis? over built but very rigid.

[td25c]

as soon as im over this "probationary member" stuff i sould be able to post some pics. Im just a youngster and im wondering what ever happened to putting cranes on pierce chassis? over built but very rigid.

Mine has the "FWD" chassis,I like the twin steer axel arrangement.The only thing I would like to change is the detroit engine to a big cam cummins.

[ATCOEQUIP]

as soon as im over this "probationary member" stuff i sould be able to post some pics. Im just a youngster and im wondering what ever happened to putting cranes on pierce chassis? over built but very rigid.


25c, I ain't trying to Hijack your thread, I'm waiting on more posts from you as I love your old rig, but in the meantime I'll respond to TheKid. Pierce built a high quality carrier, but I'd guess they were edged out by the cost. By the time the 70's came around, Crane Carrier Corp was providing carriers for a number of crane manufacturers. The CCC was a good chassis, but was not "over built" as you put it, making them more "cost competitive" for crane manufacturers. Then the 80's and 90's came around, more crane manufacturers were making their own chassis for their rigs. Another "heavy duty" carrier from the 70's was Consolidated Dynamics out of Canada, they built a carrier like an anvil. The 45C Bucyrus that my father bought was on a CD carrier, one heck of a stout carrier. I have a buddy of mine that runs a crane company that has a Link Belt 108B on a CD carrier, he said he wouldn't trade it for a handfull of 108's on a CCC. Times change, and money/cost is usually involved. :)

[ATCOEQUIP]

Mine has the "FWD" chassis,I like the twin steer axel arrangement.The only thing I would like to change is the detroit engine to a big cam cummins.


Does it have Detroits up and down? What models are they? Lastly, what tranny set up does it have?

[Texasgary]

Dang, your making me feel old! Back when I was running cranes, the PC hadn't even been invented, much less computers on rigs! One of the strongest one's I've operated was the TMS375. It had a shorter boom than the 475 (with dead section), but it had lifting capacity to make up for it. I did a job lifting two very old wooden rail cars off of their wheel trucks and loading them on lowboys for transport. The first was a Caboose, not too bad. The second was a "refridgerated car". We're talking early 1900's wooden rail cars. There was no such thing as styrofoam insulation back then. A reefer car from that era would be a box car made of very thick hardwood loaded with ice. I don't know what the weight was, but it's all that 375 / 45 ton wanted. Was lifting over the rear and had front outrigger pads 2 feet off the ground when it finally lifted off the wheel trucks. Verrry Carrrefully started booming up/cable out until things settled down. Load chart don't apply here, that's operating by the seat of your pants in a strong old crane! ;)I rember them days and no power down, so i would throw the master clutch out and pull the hoist lever in and use the draw works for my power down. The old Groves were a good crane.

[craneguys1722]

use to have one too,very stout unit. i'll get some pictures on here for you

[td25c]

Does it have Detroits up and down? What models are they? Lastly, what tranny set up does it have?

Detroits up and down,71 series in the truck,53 in the crane.10 speed roadranger in front of a 3 speed auxiliary,rockwell 6.44 rearend.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Detroits up and down,71 series in the truck,53 in the crane.10 speed roadranger in front of a 3 speed auxiliary,rockwell 6.44 rearend.


Cool, I like the 10 speed set up with the 3 hog box. I hope your lower is a 6-71, by far my favorite sounding Detroit. What 53 is in the upper? :)

[ATCOEQUIP]

I rember them days and no power down, so i would throw the master clutch out and pull the hoist lever in and use the draw works for my power down. The old Groves were a good crane.


Texasgary, that brings back memories. I've done the same on a 108 Link Belt. No power down. Knock out the master clutch, engage hoist up clutches, ease off brake and let those big gears turning control the descent. Wow, those were the days! Oh yeah, that old L-B had screw outrigger jacks! Give me a break, yeah right. Throw out the outrigger beams, get the pads and cribbing ready, put the boom in the old girl, and lift something heavy with the boom flat out. Swing her a little to one side. When the outriggers raise on the opposite side, throw the pads under 'em. Repeat process on other side, we're ready to go. Screw jacks my _ _ _ _! ;) :drinkup

[td25c]

Cool, I like the 10 speed set up with the 3 hog box. I hope your lower is a 6-71, by far my favorite sounding Detroit. What 53 is in the upper? :)

I wish it was a 6-71 in the lower but it's only a 4-71.It moves ok on level road but slow on hills.I work it in a 30 mile raidius from home,I halve alot of jobs that are only 10 miles away.4-53 in the upper ,no coplaint's.the machien also came with alot of rigging,25 ton 8 part block,chocker's ,clevis,manuals,load chart,and log book.

[ATCOEQUIP]

I wish it was a 6-71 in the lower but it's only a 4-71.It moves ok on level road but slow on hills.I work it in a 30 mile raidius from home,I halve alot of jobs that are only 10 miles away.4-53 in the upper ,no coplaint's.the machien also came with alot of rigging,25 ton 8 part block,chocker's ,clevis,manuals,load chart,and log book.


Sounds like you got quite a deal. The 4-53 is OK for the upper, you'll get good fuel economy from it. The 4-71 is a little small for a carrier. Reminds me of a P&H T300 that I drove. Had a 6V-53 in the lower, a 70,000 something pound machine! I called it "the Dragonfly", it would "drag" up one side of a hill then go "on" to "fly" down the other side of the hill. ***

[ATCOEQUIP]

I dont use a cable clamp on the dead end,just the wedge socket.When installing the cable and wedge I always "seat" the wedge whith a mallet by hand before installing the headake ball.I havent slung any concete yet but I do halve a 3/4 yard funnel.I am going to fabricate a spreder bar for the wider truss sets.


Almost forgot to back up and address this issue. I don't recommend the tag end of the wedge socket not being secured. For example, if you were lowering the ball blind over an obstruction and your flagman decided to see who's calling on his cell phone, which caused you to bump your ball on a roof or something, this could potentially loosen the cable through the wedge socket. Hey, strange things happen. Here's a link about wedge sockets and proper termination http://www.csao.org/UploadFiles/Magazine/Vol9No1/91wedge.htm. I have used all these methods. The one I liked the most was the extended wedge that you could put a rope clip in. Crosby made the one I used, it worked good. ;)

[td25c]

I rember them days and no power down, so i would throw the master clutch out and pull the hoist lever in and use the draw works for my power down. The old Groves were a good crane.

I looked at several grove tms 375's before I bought the tm 250t.they all looked good and I like the trapizoid boom,2 stage outrigers but I did not want to spend the extra cash that it took to buy a 375.I like my tm 250, it's big enugh to lift some wieght and small enugh to set trusses.

[td25c]

Almost forgot to back up and address this issue. I don't recommend the tag end of the wedge socket not being secured. For example, if you were lowering the ball blind over an obstruction and your flagman decided to see who's calling on his cell phone, which caused you to bump your ball on a roof or something, this could potentially loosen the cable through the wedge socket. Hey, strange things happen. Here's a link about wedge sockets and proper termination http://www.csao.org/UploadFiles/Magazine/Vol9No1/91wedge.htm. I have used all these methods. The one I liked the most was the extended wedge that you could put a rope clip in. Crosby made the one I used, it worked good. ;)

The becket&wedge system work's good for me.When properly installed ,it wont fail.If I were to bump the ball on the roof , then I halve failed.Crane work Is alot different than other jobs I do.You must always be alert,and you halve to trust the crane.If you dont like somthing about the lift,do not pick it up!Be safe.

[liebherr1160]

those old 25's ...ya cant kill'em ..

The wedge and socket assembly should have a secondary .."fail Safe" on the tail end.. as mentioned in case you tap something ... or blind and two block ... or on big cable where i have seen the loop open up before we got the weight and the wedge fell out ..and that was after it was seated ..... mallet and all it didnt matter that one time ..
whit the other Beckets i use the cable clamp and wire rope to set my tail ..so i dont have to try and hold everything ...

..... Should really have it on there .. the Crosby Hybrid ..is the one with the extended wedge.. its only a clip .. two minutes and your done..

[ATCOEQUIP]

The becket&wedge system work's good for me.When properly installed ,it wont fail.If I were to bump the ball on the roof , then I halve failed.Crane work Is alot different than other jobs I do.You must always be alert,and you halve to trust the crane.If you dont like somthing about the lift,do not pick it up!Be safe.


The wedge and socket may work quite well for you, until that one time, for reasons you couldn't anticipate, it slipped. Also, if an OSHA rep ever ventured onto a job your on, and the tag end was not secured; get out your checkbook to pay the fine! I strongly suggest you secure the tag end of the cable. I want you to keep working for many years, without incident. Don't leave any safety issue one step short. The lives of everyone around your rig is in your hands. Thankfully, I never had an incident in my operating days. May your jobs be the same. No incidents is the achievement all crane operators must strive to accomplish. Take the extra redundant step and secure the tag line. ;)

[td25c]

If you do not like the becket&wedge, go with cable clamp's. I will use the becket. It has been around along time ,and it is safe.If you dont like the job , do not pick it up!

[liebherr1160]

The wedge and socket is a great tool ... Its rated at the line pretty much ..properly installed the line will fail first ...the use of cable clamps reduces the line capacity because your reliant on friction and the crushing of the cable .... the use of cable clamps require a more detailed assembly ..this is why for capacity and quickness the wedge and socket is the tool of choice ....in the industry... cable clamps are not the safest alternative to a wedge and socket ..
but this is
http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/productcatalog/body_032.htm


But since the mid-60's the idea of securing the tail has been on the books and mandatory if you use it on a hoist line, boom hoist line ,luffing line ..etc..

From the Crosby book..pretty much a bible of rigging information ..and the same referance an inspector will show you if its done incorrectly .

http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/productcatalog/body_049.htm

http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/productcatalog/body_048.htm

and this all the right ways to put it together that are accepted practice.
http://www.pnl.gov/contracts/hoist_rigging/images/cranes_image005.jpg

If you chose not to ..thats up to you ..your the operator(points finger) ..best of luck with it ..:drinkup

[td25c]

Thank's atcoequip&liebherr1160.I went to www.csao.org and www.thecrosbygroup.com.I see what youre talking about,pictures always help.Same wedge&socket that I use.And I see where they install the clamp,makes sense.

[liebherr1160]

Your welcome

Best of luck in your new venture ...I have to say i envy you ...I really played around with the idea of a Link-Belt HTC-8690

http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/products/htc/htc8690/frame_htc8690.htm
...but ahh the money and nerve to get neck deep into something didnt come about

[Lugghead]

The saying, "NEVER saddle a dead horse" comes to mind...........

[td25c]

Your welcome

Best of luck in your new venture ...I have to say i envy you ...I really played around with the idea of a Link-Belt HTC-8690

http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/products/htc/htc8690/frame_htc8690.htm
...but ahh the money and nerve to get neck deep into something didnt come about

Htc 8690 look's like a heffty unit.Link-belt builds good equipment.I also understand about the money with the present economy being what it is.I thought long and hard before buying mine.My choice would be the 375 or 475 grove but at the time I did not want to spend the extra money.The crane market is alot different from other equipment.They are not as prevelant as a backhoe or dozer.When you find the crane you want it may be on the other side of the country.I also found that when you jump up to a crane thats 5 years newer the price almost doulbes,same thing when you go up in size.I am happy whith the tm250, it's the rite crane for me at this time.

[liebherr1160]

you wont go wrong with the 25T pick all day long and not sweat...they will last forever.... just keep that ol' Jimmy screaming ..

I took a hard look at the 90 Ton Link belt ..because ..with the counter weight configurations ,main boom lenght , jib config's , outrigger stance ,pick and carry chart, road ability ( 100 Kph:D),... i could really cover a broad spectrum of the rental market with one machine ....

But the real money with this machine starts in the extra's ...Tandem support truck ..with a Hiab ,or Fasi ($ maybe a 25T National $)to put inserts in ,or a straight truck and hire a BT to do it when i need it ...spreader bar's ,shackles ,rigging ,snatch blocks ,ETC ..now theres a pile of money ..up here the crane comes with rigging ..or it dosent come at all .... and as you already know the people that call dont always have an idea of what its gonna take to get daylight under a load ...so best to have it ..and keep on smiling ..:o

[ATCOEQUIP]

If you do not like the becket&wedge, go with cable clamp's. I will use the becket. It has been around along time ,and it is safe.If you dont like the job , do not pick it up!

Wow was I misunderstood. Just got in from working today and read the latest post's. It seems when I mentioned using clips on the tag end of the cable, you thought I meant using clips instead of a Beckett to terminate the cable to the load ball. :eek: No No No! Never Never attach to load ball or load block with anything but Beckett, but secure the tag coming out of the Beckett using approved methods for redundant safety. ;) The extended wedge Beckett made by Crosby was my favorite to work with, fast and easy. :cool2

[liebherr1160]

I knew where you were coming from ,,the tag end(?) threw me for a second ...we call it a tail ....
I do like the Crosby Extended wedge..but it has is place ..I havent got real big arms ..so to set the wedge on the other's i mark my 6-8 inches of tail and that's where i keep putting my clip..
I usually pull more tail through than i need and attach the clip and piece of wire rope ,then pull the Socket an the tail buts against the back of it ..as i make the loop smaller on my live end i insert the wedge and give a quick snap of the line hand ..inspect .and a few taps from a hammer to seat ..then hook on my ball ,or dead end .. and go from there ..nice thing i find about that is after the 10th time of breaking and assembling the cable will just move into position ..and a lot less effort ..and no worries of the tail coming to far back through .... in order to do that with an extended wedge i would have to set the clip twice ..

[ATCOEQUIP]

I knew where you were coming from ,,the tag end(?) threw me for a second ...we call it a tail ....
I do like the Crosby Extended wedge..but it has is place ..I havent got real big arms ..so to set the wedge on the other's i mark my 6-8 inches of tail and that's where i keep putting my clip..
I usually pull more tail through than i need and attach the clip and piece of wire rope ,then pull the Socket an the tail buts against the back of it ..as i make the loop smaller on my live end i insert the wedge and give a quick snap of the line hand ..inspect .and a few taps from a hammer to seat ..then hook on my ball ,or dead end .. and go from there ..nice thing i find about that is after the 10th time of breaking and assembling the cable will just move into position ..and a lot less effort ..and no worries of the tail coming to far back through .... in order to do that with an extended wedge i would have to set the clip twice ..


My bad, I failed to remember we have different names for things around the country/world. I'm a southern country boy, did a drilling job in Massachusetts one time. One Monday morning, my helper asked if he could "put a grinder in my lunch bucket." I said, "dude, where I come from we have angle grinders and bench grinders; what the heck you wantin' to put in my lunch bucket?" He laughed and said, "it's a sandwich." Hmmmm: ***

[td25c]

My bad, I failed to remember we have different names for things around the country/world. I'm a southern country boy, did a drilling job in Massachusetts one time. One Monday morning, my helper asked if he could "put a grinder in my lunch bucket." I said, "dude, where I come from we have angle grinders and bench grinders; what the heck you wantin' to put in my lunch bucket?" He laughed and said, "it's a sandwich." Hmmmm: ***

My mistake Atcoequip,after I saw the pics on the two website's I realized what you guys were telling me.It made sense,thanks for the imput.

[ATCOEQUIP]

My mistake Atcoequip,after I saw the pics on the two website's I realized what you guys were telling me.It made sense,thanks for the imput.

No problem. Since your learning the crane business, I as well as other operators just want to make sure your doing all "the little things" that are critical for safe crane operation. Many of us have experience that only years in the seat can teach you. And one of the things that's a necessity for a crane operator, but takes time to learn, is to be able to recognize and anticipate situations before they happen. By the way, have you got it down to a fine art when putting on stowing the A-Frame jib?

[td25c]

I dont know if the a-frame jib belongs in the fine art's department.I halve installed it several time's,it take's some getting use to.I use the mainline to haul it in to position.one thing I did to speed the process was to make hardware bracket's on each side of the jib to hold all the pin's and accessories.It save's me from walking back to the truck.I also made a bracket that keep's the jib frome being pulled over in a two block situation.I will get some pics of it.

[ATCOEQUIP]

I dont know if the a-frame jib belongs in the fine art's department.I halve installed it several time's,it take's some getting use to.I use the mainline to haul it in to position.one thing I did to speed the process was to make hardware bracket's on each side of the jib to hold all the pin's and accessories.It save's me from walking back to the truck.I also made a bracket that keep's the jib frome being pulled over in a two block situation.I will get some pics of it.

Oh yeah, there's a fine art...of doing it quickly. In that little TMS100, which I admit is a smaller crane, I could put on the jib in 8 - 10 minutes easy. One job I will never forget was setting trusses for a carpenter crew who obviously hadn't worked around a hyro crane before. I pulled up to the curb of the site and jumped out to scope out the job. The fellow I assume was the foreman came over and asked "is this all the boom you have?" I thought, this is going to be a fun day. But the guys did OK. It was a house with trees all around, only one spot I could set up, right front corner of house. I set up, looked it over, and told the foreman "I can set them from here, but I'm not sure about the last few, I might have to put the jib in to get them." Sure enough, got 'em all but the last four. Told the foreman to take a Coke break while I put the jib on. I spun her around, whipped that thing out, put the pendants on and the load line, up we went. The foreman came over and said "well I'll be darned...I didn't know this thing would get an erection!" Operators have all the fun! :D :drinkup

[liebherr1160]

had a similar experience with the TMS 300 ...they wanted to go faster ...we were going slow because they hadnt been around a crane and truth be said i was nervous about how much risk they would put themselves at doing this ....

but when the push came over and wanted to go faster .... Hand throttle cranked, black smoke bellowed out ,,that Jimmy just a howling like Alanis Morriset dipped in acid..stuck a butt in the corner of my mouth and turned her loose ...that lasted about a half hour .. the guys started coming down going to flatten the guy ....

we spent the rest of the afternoon just putting up roof truss and having a good time...

[td25c]

I know what you mean ,most carpenders are savvy about crane work.They know where to dump the trusses upon delivery,halve stone on driveway,and understand baisic hand signals.But once in awhile you run in to one that makes you wounder if they can even drive a nail.

[ATCOEQUIP]

had a similar experience with the TMS 300 ...they wanted to go faster ...we were going slow because they hadnt been around a crane and truth be said i was nervous about how much risk they would put themselves at doing this ....

but when the push came over and wanted to go faster .... Hand throttle cranked, black smoke bellowed out ,,that Jimmy just a howling like Alanis Morriset dipped in acid..stuck a butt in the corner of my mouth and turned her loose ...that lasted about a half hour .. the guys started coming down going to flatten the guy ....

we spent the rest of the afternoon just putting up roof truss and having a good time...


That's funny! "you want me to turn it loose? watch this...". Going at a pace like that will run an inexperienced ground hog crazy hooking up the trusses! :D

[liebherr1160]

But my absolute favorite is when a push for a steel erector ..came to the cab ..about 4:00 in the afternoon on the first day of a 2 two day job and said .." we're gonna finish today ...if the men dont fall down first ..boy am I tired ..."
Dont think they were ever so glad to pack a crane up ..

[ATCOEQUIP]

I know what you mean ,most carpenders are savvy about crane work.They know where to dump the trusses upon delivery,halve stone on driveway,and understand baisic hand signals.But once in awhile you run in to one that makes you wounder if they can even drive a nail.


Yeah, those are the day's you discover to be a crane operator requires 3 basic things; sunglasses, lunch bucket, and lot's of Goody Powders! Other items optional, these required. :drinkup

[ATCOEQUIP]

Hey 25C, have you got one of those standard crane signal charts on the side of your rig? You'd be surprised how many times you'll turn and look and see an inexperienced hand staring at that thing and studying it. They'll stand there practicing the signals trying to get them in their head. ;)

[td25c]

Hey 25C, have you got one of those standard crane signal charts on the side of your rig? You'd be surprised how many times you'll turn and look and see an inexperienced hand staring at that thing and studying it. They'll stand there practicing the signals trying to get them in their head. ;)

The chart's on the crane,I cant remember all of them either.Normaly the boom up&down,cable up&down,and swing left or right signals get the job done.Comunication is important so I Keep it simple.

[stock]

some of the ones we use

http://www.hse.gov.uk/workplacetransport/safetysigns/banksman/banksman.htm


Stock

[liebherr1160]

As far as hand signals go this is my favorite placard ..and bound to get attention ..

http://www.californiacraneschool.com/crane_hand_signals.JPG

[ATCOEQUIP]

As far as hand signals go this is my favorite placard ..and bound to get attention ..

http://www.californiacraneschool.com/crane_hand_signals.JPG


And little work done! :D

[TheKid]

Here is a few pictures of the 1978 Grove 80t that im currently messing with. note the carrier. (no pads needed due to 4' deep concret under her.) Working at a cement plant.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Wow, that's a sweet rig. 25c, you're going to have to paint your crane, TheKid is makin' you look bad! ***

[TheKid]

Oh and with the 125t rated carrier under it, imagine driving it on local california roads. I **** everyone off. each side of the crane walks on both lanes. and you dont drive it, you just suggest where she should be going. With 3 sets of hydraulic steer axles and a 2500+lbs main block swinging on the dolly pushing the front around it makes me pucker everytime. Our 165 demag drives like a caddy compaired to this monster.

[td25c]

Here is a few pictures of the 1978 Grove 80t that im currently messing with. note the carrier. (no pads needed due to 4' deep concret under her.) Working at a cement plant.

Thats a good looking grove.Is it an 875? I guess I am insecure,I allways use cribbing.I was temted to buy a bigger crane,but for now my tm250 work's good.That is a nice crane you have.

[td25c]

Wow, that's a sweet rig. 25c, you're going to have to paint your crane, TheKid is makin' you look bad! ***

Ok,Ok, I will see what I can do this summer! And I will get some new decals.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Ok,Ok, I will see what I can do this summer! And I will get some new decals.


Oh yeah, gotta kick 'em while they're down! :D:lmao:roll

[td25c]

I want to take time to thank everyone that responded to my thread.you all have alot of good ideas and experience,and good typing skills.My spelling is poor and typing is slow.So bear with me in this forum.Thaks again!

[liebherr1160]

25c anytime ..its great to chew the fat with a fellow brother of the hook .

[stock]

Are you leaving us or something??? I really enjoy reading the various posts in all the different threads,to have the wealth of knowledge on such a global scale at ones finger tips is to say the least thrilling and fun.I too would like to thank everyone.

Stock

[td25c]

Are you leaving us or something??? I really enjoy reading the various posts in all the different threads,to have the wealth of knowledge on such a global scale at ones finger tips is to say the least thrilling and fun.I too would like to thank everyone.

Stock

I am not going anywhere.I just dident realise ther would be much intrest in my crane thread.Thanks to all around the globe for your imput.

[ATCOEQUIP]

25c, I've been meaning to ask you how the tip section of your Grove works. Is it a dead section or is it fully hydraulic? Send some pics of the inside of the lower cab and operators cab. :)

[td25c]

25c, I've been meaning to ask you how the tip section of your Grove works. Is it a dead section or is it fully hydraulic? Send some pics of the inside of the lower cab and operators cab. :)

The tip is what we call the "dead" or "fly" section.You pull the pin and flip down the dog latch on the second "live section" of the boom.then run out the dead section & retract second live section cylinder,Istall the pin and undog the section .retracting is easyer,pull the pin and you "two block" the dead section to retract it.It Takes about 10 minutes to extend the dead section,I use it allot on truss sets.I have to service the grove tomorrow.Ill get pics of the upper & lower cabs.

[ATCOEQUIP]

The tip is what we call the "dead" or "fly" section.You pull the pin and flip down the dog latch on the second "live section" of the boom.then run out the dead section & retract second live section cylinder,Istall the pin and undog the section .retracting is easyer,pull the pin and you "two block" the dead section to retract it.It Takes about 10 minutes to extend the dead section,I use it allot on truss sets.I have to service the grove tomorrow.Ill get pics of the upper & lower cabs.


I thought it was a dead section when I saw the pic you took with the antennae on your jib in another post. It looked like the tip section was fully extended while the other two telescoping sections looked extended equally but not fully. Hey, I notice stuff like that. ;)

[td25c]

I thought it was a dead section when I saw the pic you took with the antennae on your jib in another post. It looked like the tip section was fully extended while the other two telescoping sections looked extended equally but not fully. Hey, I notice stuff like that. ;)

Your sharp ATCOEQUIP.Grove says to extend the sections equally.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Your sharp ATCOEQUIP.Grove says to extend the sections equally.

I wouldn't say I'm sharp. It's just, I've done a lot of things in my life, but I'm still a crane man in my heart. I just can't let it go. :)

[95zIV]

The tip is what we call the "dead" or "fly" section.You pull the pin and flip down the dog latch on the second "live section" of the boom.then run out the dead section & retract second live section cylinder,Istall the pin and undog the section .retracting is easyer,pull the pin and you "two block" the dead section to retract it.It Takes about 10 minutes to extend the dead section,I use it allot on truss sets.I have to service the grove tomorrow.Ill get pics of the upper & lower cabs.

I've got some time on a old 20 ton Link-belt RT, and it had a dead section like that one. To extend and retract that one was all power, you laid the boom down all the way and in the top of the boom about 4 feet up from the base of the boom there was a hole. You stuck a special tool in there, my boss had a socket that he had cut two groves in (kinda like the release on a bottle jack), and you turned the fitting to release the base of the cylinder. Then you pulled a big cross pin up at the tip, stood the boom up(I think LB said at least 70 degrees) then you cabled out and extended the tip and it slid the section out. Lowered the boom and put the cross pin back in, then went up to the tip and pulled another smaller pin out of the bottom of the boom and then retracted the tip cylinder and relocked it at the hole in the boom. To retract that section you do it all backwards.

[td25c]

25c, I've been meaning to ask you how the tip section of your Grove works. Is it a dead section or is it fully hydraulic? Send some pics of the inside of the lower cab and operators cab. :)

Here are pics of upper & lower cabs.I incuded a pic of the boom.the dog latch holds the second boom section after the pin is pulled.I push the dead section out with the cylinder.you can also see the jib pins are all stored on the jib,I saves me going back to the truck.

[ATCOEQUIP]

That's sweet, I think she'll clean up real nice. ;) The lower cab looks good, FWD made good cabs. I like the tranny set up, 10 speed with 3 hog box. Your going to have to tell me what the gizmo is in front of the winch levers, I can't tell in the pic. And something don't look original about the boom lever foot pedal, aside from the little extension plate. It's been a real long time since I've been in a Grove, but isn't the pedal on the left the boom pedal? I can't remember.

[td25c]

That's sweet, I think she'll clean up real nice. ;) The lower cab looks good, FWD made good cabs. I like the tranny set up, 10 speed with 3 hog box. Your going to have to tell me what the gizmo is in front of the winch levers, I can't tell in the pic. And something don't look original about the boom lever foot pedal, aside from the little extension plate. It's been a real long time since I've been in a Grove, but isn't the pedal on the left the boom pedal? I can't remember.

I'll start from left to right on the controls.First foot peddal is outrigger,swing lever,boom extend lever,swing brake peddal,second boom extend lever,boom lever with peddal,auxiliary winch,main winch,freefall.The previous owner put the extra brakets on the boom peddal.I think the gizmo you are referring to is a hook latch for the freefall lever that I installed.I push the freefall lever forward and latch it.Then I can hop out and manually pull out cable when reeving the block or stowing the jib.

[ATCOEQUIP]

I'll start from left to right on the controls.First foot peddal is outrigger,swing lever,boom extend lever,swing brake peddal,second boom extend lever,boom lever with peddal,auxiliary winch,main winch,freefall.The previous owner put the extra brakets on the boom peddal.I think the gizmo you are referring to is a hook latch for the freefall lever that I installed.I push the freefall lever forward and latch it.Then I can hop out and manually pull out cable when reeving the block or stowing the jib.


Yeah, I remembered which lever was which, the left foot pedal is what I wasn't sure of, works the outriggers eh. Does it use toggle switches to select outrigger beams/jacks then the foot pedal applies the hydraulics? And that was the gizmo I was referring to. So you rigged it up to lock your free fall for reeving block, would that be called a little "operator engineering"? :D :roll

[td25c]

Yeah, I remembered which lever was which, the left foot pedal is what I wasn't sure of, works the outriggers eh. Does it use toggle switches to select outrigger beams/jacks then the foot pedal applies the hydraulics? And that was the gizmo I was referring to. So you rigged it up to lock your free fall for reeving block, would that be called a little "operator engineering"? :D :roll

It uses push buttons to select each outrigger beam or jack's.It has 8 buttons.Where is Liebherr1160,I havent talked to him for allmost a week?

[ATCOEQUIP]

That's a nice old rig you have. Newer cranes have features to make the operator more comfortable and safe, but there ain't nothing like being an operator in an older crane where the operator is the brains of the operation. ;)

[crane operator]

used to have a tm 250 just about like your crane. Pictures brought back fond memories of running that rig. Notice I said running the rig, as in on the job site, I never loved driving that thing.Mine had a 6-53 in the lower and the throttle had 2 positions, on and off. The upper however was a thing of joy- some previous owner had put in a perkins diesel and I wish I still had that upper rig on a better lower. That upper was the smoothest, quietest, most fuel effiecent rig I think I've run. Mine had the 70' main, with 20' "dead stick" and then the 20' A frame jib. Great strong old crane- you'd have to buy a 50 ton crane today to do what it will do, I laugh looking at these "25 ton" boom truck cranes, your old grove will be running long after those are in the scrap heap!

[td25c]

used to have a tm 250 just about like your crane. Pictures brought back fond memories of running that rig. Notice I said running the rig, as in on the job site, I never loved driving that thing.Mine had a 6-53 in the lower and the throttle had 2 positions, on and off. The upper however was a thing of joy- some previous owner had put in a perkins diesel and I wish I still had that upper rig on a better lower. That upper was the smoothest, quietest, most fuel effiecent rig I think I've run. Mine had the 70' main, with 20' "dead stick" and then the 20' A frame jib. Great strong old crane- you'd have to buy a 50 ton crane today to do what it will do, I laugh looking at these "25 ton" boom truck cranes, your old grove will be running long after those are in the scrap heap!

I like the tm 250.Its big enogh to pick most jobs and small enogh to set trusses on a new home.Its not fast on the road,I work a 25 mile radius from home so its not a big issue.Mine has the 29'-92' boom with 24 ' jib.The man I boght it from told me it was like a 45 ton crane by todays standards.The old equipment was underated,and the high teck new equipment is overated.I have noticed this in all truck & equipment ratings.Thank's for the imput Crane Operater.

[nicholscrane1]

sweet crane

[td25c]

Thank's nicholscrane1.I enjoy running it .Hear is a picture of the crane with everything stowed after an inspection when I found a leaking outrigger jack.

[td25c]

At least on half of my truss set jobs the truss manufacturer dump's the trusses in a bad location at the job site.A carpenter called me last night to look at setting trusses on a new addition at a church.The trusses are no problem but it would help in the future if they would not dump them directly under the 7,200 volt power lines.The trusses are only 36 feet long and they can be moved by hand out from under the power line to a better location.MY piont is that the carpenters could save alot of time and trouble if they would consult the crane operator before dumping the trusses at the job.Maybe a pre construction meeting,or just call me on my cell phone before they deliver the trusses and I will put down some orange paint so the driver knows where to drop them.Dang! I am ranting abit. The power lines are hard to see in the picture,They droped the trusses right underneath them.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Now THAT is funny! :lmao :falldownlaugh :duh

I guess...for carpenters...those power lines just looked too much like a string line! Line it up to the line and, yep...that's it...nail it boys! :D

[bill onthehill]

gotta make you wonder if they ever look up! after looking at the pic they must have had a forklift to unload the bundle that is still strapped together. We always got our marks for setting them BEFORE we cut the bands.

[td25c]

ATCOEQUIP,you hit the nail on the head about most carpenters.Nail it up boys ,and dont worry about the fireworks comming off the crane in the power line!

[td25c]

bill onthehill,Most of our trusses are deliverd by a tractor trailer that has a rolling tailboard on the trailer.The driver unstraps the load then backs in hitting the brakes to unload the trusses at the job.And yes,That is a good idea to mark the trusses for the perlons before setting them.

[ATCOEQUIP]

bill onthehill,Most of our trusses are deliverd by a tractor trailer that has a rolling tailboard on the trailer.The driver unstraps the load then backs in hitting the brakes to unload the trusses at the job.


...right under the power lines! :eek:

I can see you pulling up on the job and muttering "what the..." :D

[td25c]

...right under the power lines! :eek:

I can see you pulling up on the job and muttering "what the..." :D

Thats how it was this evening when I looked at the job."What in the ding dang heck were they thinking".I will post some pics of the job setting the trusses later in the week.

[dozerdave]

Hi 25C,

Nice crane and Grove was always my favorite to operate.

Here is an unusual story that happened to me. The crane was a Grove 18 ton RT that we used for hanging #18 bars for the iron workers in the tunnel because it was faster than an air tugger. I arrived at the job site and my crane was not in it's usual spot where the night shift oiler would have serviced it. I finally found it inside the u/s portal with the boom fully extended up into the shaft with a welding ground clamp snapped on to a hoist line shiv. I walked around the back of the crane and there was another ground clamp snapped to a rear outrigger. The iron workers Sup. came up to me and said let's hang some steel. I said I need to have the master mechanic make that decision because your hands used this crane for a ground cable last night. After a lot of pawing the ground the master mechanic showed up and more fur was flying. After a complete check up we went to work.

[stock]

Nail benders have no concept of safety and there has been many a post to reinforce this statement.

Stock

[td25c]

Thanks dozerdave I like the grove's to.Wow! That story makes my blood boil.I would have tolled the iron workers superviser that he just bought himself an 18 ton grove rt crane.Dang!The man That I bought my crane from was very particular and kepped it in top working order rite down to the locks on the doors & rigging box.And he advised me to use them if I left the crane at a job site overnight.

[td25c]

We got the trusses set this afternoon on the new addition at the church.As it turns out the truss manufacturer that delivered the trusses just dumped them under the power line and left without saying anything to the carpenters.They used a small loader tractor to move the trusses up against the church where I tolled them .The job went well and they were a good crew to work with,we got them all set in about 3 hours.I called the power company and they coverd the primary electric line with safety shields at the closest piont.It was a tight squeeze working between the church and power lines.All went well and everyone was happy.

[td25c]

Now this was a simple job just setting 36' trusses,but even simple jobs can have some big hassles like the power line,we located the septic tank & leach lines before we backed in,and the ground was a little soft as we had a 3 inch rain two day's ago,so I brought along extra cribbing and locked in the power divider and poured the coal to the old Grove when I backed in to the job.I also installed the ground rod.The last picture is a tool that I use to help me judge the boom position when setting trusses and returning the boom line back to the truss pile.It's just a traveling indicator on the boom cylinder with a standard tape measure under it.It helps alot.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Pretty sweet 25c! :yup

[dozerdave]

I really enjoyed your pictures and laughed about the carpenters. My problem with carpenters was the whole crew always wanted to play signalman. The best signalmen for me were ironworkers.

[ATCOEQUIP]

I really enjoyed your pictures and laughed about the carpenters. My problem with carpenters was the whole crew always wanted to play signalman. The best signalmen for me were ironworkers.

Your absolutely right dozerdave. :D

[shipman]

Good to hear that you guys like your old Grove cranes.... cause I've just bought a 1975 RT59S (15 ton) to use at our boat yard. We are retiring an old stationary derrick type crane of unknown age and make. Had a visit from a Ministy of Labour inspector who just couldn't deal with the fact that there was no capacity or builder plaque on it, just our own self imposed WLL. Any how the RT will be way handier around the yard.

[stock]

We are retiring an old stationary derrick type crane of unknown age and make. Had a visit from a Ministy of Labour inspector who just couldn't deal with the fact that there was no capacity or builder plaque on it, just our own self imposed WLL. Any how the RT will be way handier around the yard.


Now you can't go saying things like that without pictures,give us a look maybe someone here will identify it ................

[shipman]

She was standing here in 1973 when my Dad bought the marina. It had a 30' wooden boom and we cranked the hoist winch by hand. I put an other photo in the "favorite crane" thread. We think it originally came from the docks in Midland Ontario.

[shipman]

This is the "old grove" we are going to put into service at the boat yard.

[ATCOEQUIP]

This is the "old grove" we are going to put into service at the boat yard.

Sweet! ;)

Is that an RT620?

[stock]

Nice little city crane "well wear"

[shipman]

Its a RT59S 1975. We had the wheels off to change the wheel seals and got the brake shoes re-lined. New oil cooler. Broken glass replaced. Quite a few hydraulic hoses. Needed one outrigger shim replaced. New cable on both winches. Swing brake needed a new master cylinder. Looking for a short jib. Got an ajustable spreader frame engineered and being built. I'll post more pics when we are all rigged for lifting boats.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Looks good! What engine does that puppy have in it?

BTW, did you check out that PeatZorb oil absorbant I mentioned to ya?

[shipman]

Its got the cat 3145 engine. It starts and runs ! (and eventually the cloud of smoke clears). I did check out the PeatZorb and am planning on trying it. Check out why the guy whose doing the work for me has the best wireless reception in the county!!

[td25c]

Thats a good looking Grove rt59 shipman,I also like the picture of the wooden "boat yard crane". The man that I bought my Grove tm250 truck crane from also had a rt59,he loved it.They are very handy .Look forward to seeing the rt59 in action shipman.

[kthompson]

Boy talk about memories!!!

I worked for Grove for right at 10 years when they were the king. From Nov 1974 to Oct of 1984. There were in process of major cutting back on the hyd crane production due to the demand had dropped so much. Along with it was the CEO (not sure this was his title but think so) who was embezzling. Along with some dumb decisions on the move to the lattice crane. Destroyed a great company.

The plant I worked at built only RT models until the lattice ones came out. The RT 59 shown here looks like what we called the RT 60S. The 59 might have been for export with a little lower lift rating. FYI Grove did over build those machines. It was sold at 80% of rated capacity and tested at 110% of rated capacity (yes each machine) and those for export to some countries (Australia being one) had to be tested to like 125% of capacity. Guess what, they were chained down :eek: for that for there was the capacity for the lift but not enough weight.

Have no idea some of the things mentioned on the TM models but on the RT models we built the only thing that changed with the different brand of engines (Detroit, Cummins, Cat and later Deutz) was the engine mounts. On the Deutz being air cool no radiator and different exhaust system. By far the Cummins and Cat were the best under load. I really doubt anyone in the field would ever run a machine as hard as it was by us either in inspection and then at our test track.

As to installing the "A" frame jib, at our test track those were also load tested. If a person had to help you store the jib you were laughed at. As back up test track operator I was not as smooth as the full time guys. But got fair at it.

On the safety side a good friend who was the smoothest operator I have ever seen and looked the part. Short and wide! :) After Grove he worked for a large local rental company. They lost a boom and house while setting a prebuilt house on stilts as the weight was more than the operator was told it was. They had to pay for the lose as they did not have it in writing.

No idea where the build log for Grove machines are now they are out of business but it would amaze you all the serial numbers on those machines. No way could a thief ever get rid of all of them. Some are easy to find but some are right hidden unless you strip it.

Again, you have no idea how much this blessed my heart. Be safe and keep the old iron running.

Oh let me ramble just a little more, we built a speed demon for the Marines. Including M 16 racks. Two wheel drive unit that had road speed of like 35 or more. It was like a 10 ton machine and was made to be dropped in to work on down aircraft and be left behind. When we asked you mean this machine is going to be used just a few hours and thrown away, yes. Waste of money! No, the aircraft it was savings really made the cost of the crane look like change. We also made some for the Air Force, with personal work baskets to mount on the boom with all controls for the boom on remote there. Of all the things I ever have done with a pucker factor, running that basket up about 75 feet and being sure all worked was something today they could get a monkey for. You did have to be in the basket to be sure the remotes were working properly. Is it times like those you have to trust a machine and all you know about it. Oh, those were for the Air Force to be able to work on airplanes and one issue was so they could "wash" them. OK.

On those machines with full hyd steering be carefull if you ever work on those systems. If hosed wrong the steering until becomes a hyd motor. Had a friend have his right arm torn off due to that. Very sad. Had it not been for the Grace of God it could have been me and not him. Machine was being fired up first time and who ever was handy would hold the key while they were bleedin the fuel system and I did that often. But he ran his arm through the steering wheel as he was infront of the cab and the switch is under the steering wheel.

Thank you for allowing my ramble and the good memories. This was worth the price of admission.

[dozerdave]

Hi kthompson,

Thanks for sharing your memories.

[Raildudes dad]

No idea where the build log for Grove machines are now they are out of business but it would amaze you all the serial numbers on those machines. No way could a thief ever get rid of all of them. Some are easy to find but some are right hidden unless you strip it.

Grove is now owned by Manitowoc, machines are built in Shady Grove PA

[kthompson]

Grove is now owned by Manitowoc, machines are built in Shady Grove PA

Shady Grove was the home of Grove cranes, where they got their name. They were owned by Kiddie (spelling) and I think were sold by them to another company before Manitowoc but not 100% sure. Again thank you for for bring those memories up.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Maybe a coincidence of names, Grove Mfg was started by John L. Grove, the man who started JLG industries in McConnellsburg PA. He seperated from JLG somewhere in the late 60's, moved to Shady Grove PA, and started Grove Mfg.

[kthompson]

Maybe a coincidence of names, Grove Mfg was started by John L. Grove, the man who started JLG industries in McConnellsburg PA. He seperated from JLG somewhere in the late 60's, moved to Shady Grove PA, and started Grove Mfg.

Wayne Nicarry was the President of Grove while there. He was a great man we thought a lot of. The CEO was J. Martin Benchoff (spelling?). It was told he went to prison for his embezzling. Years before Al Gore invented the INTERNET so never saw proof of that. :tong He was one of the most arrogant people I have ever met. Was told he would tell employees in the shop in Shady Grove they was dumb as mules or such. Got in trouble with Dept of Labor in South Carolina for the way he talked to an employee and us an open shop state.

You may find this link a good read. http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Grove

Grove built ladders for fire trucks and I see no mention of that in this link. That may have been where the idea of over build it came from.

[td25c]

Welcome kthompson,My understanding is the first owner was manufacturing farm equipment or wagons,and built a crane at the factory to help move production along.The crane worked well and then they changed from farm equipment to crane maufacturing in 1947.Then Walter Kidde bought them out in the 1960's.They built a nice crane,almost as good as an INSLEY.Now MANITOWOC owns GROVE and I have to say that they are a good company ,and I have no trouble getting part's & seal's for my TM250 crane.Thanks for sharing your story & experience working for GROVE.I have often thought it would be neet to work at the GROVE test track where you find out the true capacitys of the cranes.The older Grove's are overbuilt & underated and thats the way a crane should be built.

[kthompson]

25 C, your history is correct.

The test track was interesting. Grove sold a lot of cranes at their test track and rightly so.

The max lift was interesting to me. You had to pull parallel to the weight (it was a steel box with scrap metal in them and were as much as 6 feet high and about 5 feet square) and then set your outriggers. It was to first lift and pull it in close (radius was specified) and then slowly rotate. Never knew of any issue with that but you were really feeling weight shift while rotating.

It was very interesting to learn how to keep a load low so when the crane tipped (there was many different weights for tip test over the front and side) that if you kept the weight low the tipping would stop when the weight was removed from the crane by sitting on the ground. Learned how to be ready to drop a load to save a machine which today is good with excavator work over pond.

Keep those loads safe and if possible low.

One thing I found interesting (the engine reps as all were in out plants from time to time) was the break in instructions so many are very careful about with engines. On a machine we built the first half hour or so the engine did a lot of idling or just above an idle. Then when installing the boom some throttle up to about half. So for first about hour or so it was easy life. When it came off the assembly line and was released for inspection there the inspectors (and I did this a few hundred times) locked a throttle wide open for about an half hour as we ran each and every circuit being sure all worked properly and to test for leaks. Then we went over that machine from top to bottom. We really did check everything. What was found there was repaired or replaced if need be then to the test track and when completed there it was to another area that inspected the machine again and completed any repairs or replacement of anything needed. It it was a repair that was part of the lift system it went back to the test track and then back to be inspected again.

At that time is was very interesting what all Grove built on those machines. The gear boxes and I think the hoist were built by Williams Tool which they owned. They built some of the boom cylinders and lift cylinders. I think all sheet metal and and tanks. Of course all welding components were made by Grove from parts cut by Grove. Major welding shop. Major welds on those frames and turntables. The oddest thing to me we made was our own battery cables. We did buy the cable and cut to length and then soldered the ends. If it was on a Grove crane it was Grove built..ok not the engine, axles, transmission, hyd pump, radiator, mufflers, and some parts of hyd system and don't forget the tires. Rims not sure. Think Grove bought the sheaves but they did the machine work on them.

Guys have to hit the bed. This really has been great. May you have a great weekend and it is very proper to have had this conversation here with Monday being set aside to thank those of this country who did the labor to make it. Thank God for those from then to now who have been willing to bend their back and place their shoulder to the load and their knee to him. What a great county we have been blessed with. It us though up to us to protect what we have been blessed to receive for our children and theirs. :usa

[ATCOEQUIP]

Thanks for the correction 25c, I had it backwards. John L. Grove did start out co-founding Grove Mfg, then went on to found JLG industries. Got too much junk in my head...get's confused at times. Here's the Wiki link for John L. Grove.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L._Grove

[shipman]

Hi kthompson : Man what a great reply, thanks for doing all that typing! Cool to think that you might have had a hand in building my RT . It is a RT59, a 15 ton machine. The original owner was Ontario Hydro here in Canada. There is a contractor doing road work in my area and they have quite a few older Grove RT's. Seems that your handywork is going to be around for a long time yet.

[Dominion 410]

kthompson,that is some excellent reading.They were popular machines around here at one time.We had a new TMS800 on a job yesterday.Nice machine but sure miss the Detroit and the long levers.

Shipman, the location of your photo look's familiar.Just a guess,but is that looking south on Hwy.69 at Mill Lake?We did quite a few projects in the Parry Sound area.

[kthompson]

Thanks for the kind words. Our plant in South Carolina built many a machine that went to Alaskan pipeline. Also a few to the Middle East for the oil fields. Some of the options we interesting to us, the units for the Middle East had hyd tanks with large lids about a foot or maybe little more for cleaning due to the sand. There was also a quick flush oil change (engine) system for some in Canada.

One option I liked and if were working where I could not see the headache ball or hook block it was an indicator for the winch. It was mechanical with rubber wheel unit mounted on the hoist level. You could rest you finger tip on it and know the moment the winch moved and the direction.

[shipman]

Yep, thats the Mill Lake bridge alright. All the traffic is now using the new northbound bridge and they are working on the new southbound bridge which is where the original bridge was.
Photos show the winch turning indicators I think your are refering to kt. There is also a fitting on the oil pan which would make for a neater oil change. I'll take a picture of that and post it as well.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Yep, that's the winch motion indicators he was talking about. I've used them many times. As kthompson mentioned, they're handy when the load ball is out of sight, like over a wall, and you can't see it to be able to tell if the line is moving or how fast it's moving. On cranes that don't have motion indicators, we'd paint spots on the last 50 feet of cable with high viz paint, like orange or yellow. Then when the ball is out of sight, you can watch the spots on the cable and tell the speed of line movement.

[dozerdave]

Hi shipman,

If I owned that crave I would be very pleased, I would also pull the cable off the drums and lube them. I might even change the color.

[td25c]

Yep ,shipman has a pretty nice Grove rt59.I see it also has the load cell moniter in the cab.I would like to instal an "LMI" moniter on my TM 250.They run around 5 grand but it's probably worth it in the long run.The other thing I like about the older Grove's is the heavy built box type outriggers that have the safty pin.I always use the safty pins on the outriggers even though the man that bought the tm250 from tolled me he never used them.The old grove's are hard to beat.

[shipman]

We have changed the cable on both winches and unfortunatly the load monitor didn't work so it has been removed. Does anyone know if Grove made boom head attachments for machines like mine (sort of like in the picture below) for reaving the secondary winch ??

[ATCOEQUIP]

Wow, check out the new shiney cable on the drums! :cool:

It's possible they have an optional sheave bracket for your machine. But in the earlier pictures, it looks like your rig has a swing away jib. Why not just install the jib with the whip line and reave load block to boom head sheaves?


upon edit: Ah, my bad, I was looking at wrong pics. It seems your rig doesn't have a jib. :Banghead

[shipman]

Hey it looks like 25c's tm250 boom head also has the type of device I'm thinking of. You can see he's rigged "out" one part while setting trusses and rigged "in" 4 part in the Lakeside thread. In the weight reduction list on my load chart there is a weight given for an "aux. boom head".

[ATCOEQUIP]

Yep, your boom head is very much like the one 25c has. Maybe he can tell you a little more about his when he logs on again. :)

[shipman]

ya, maybe, enjoy Labour Day, cheers all, shipwreck

[hundanth]

I'm sorry if I missed this but what type of engine does she have? My dad has several cranes the biggest 200t has a DD 6v92 and twin shift 10 speed.

[ATCOEQUIP]

Welcome to the forum hundanth. :usa

Which crane ya talking about? We now have 2 going on here. The RT Grove that shipman bought has a Cat 3145. The TM that 25c owns has a 4-71 lower and a 4-53 upper. :)

[kthompson]

Shipman, hope I am understanding what you are asking. We installed an "idler" drum on the front winch when there was an auxiliary winch to keep it's cable off of the main winch and cable. There was also a second upper sheave wheel and if not way way wrong there was a pin on single wheel that mounted on the front of the boom nose. It could be it and jib could interfere with each other at least on some models. I don't remember that many of the aux wheels on units so it probably was a separate option.

[td25c]

Here are some close up pictures of the auxiliary boom sheave,We call it the "Rooster Sheave".I use it on single & two part line work.It sets out in front of the main sheave's in the center of the boom.It was an option on the Grove's.I like it because the load is centered on the boom when its all the way out.In pic # 2 & 3 you will see a cable guide that I added to the starbord side of the rooster sheave to help guide the mianline into the sheave when I stow the gib.I also welded small pieces of pipe on the boom head & jib to store all the pins & hardware for the jib ,I got tired of walking back & forth to the truck when installing the jib.

[shipman]

hey thats great, thanks for putting up the pics